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Messages - Marsu42

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2581
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Convince me to shoot in RAW
« on: November 09, 2012, 10:33:55 AM »
Once I started shooting RAW, I found JPEG's to be absolute garbage. I use Small Jpeg + Raw so i can deliver the little jpeg file if needed ASAP but the RAW for real processing.

I'm using this small jpg sidecar, too - but just to see what the camera would have done and to be able to quickly browse though the collection outside Lightroom.

Does lightroom handle RAW files in an efficient manner?

My 2 cents:

a) Convert .cr2 to .dng in Lightroom which will save a few mb per shot

b) for less-than-stellar shots use lossy dng compression which about halves the file size, is virtually  indistinguishable from the uncompressed raw and way better than 100% jpeg + it retains the raw advantages

c) it's not like you cannot convert the raw files to jpeg later on to further save hd space

2582
Pricewatch Deals / Re: Sigma 35 f/1.4 Available for Preorder
« on: November 09, 2012, 07:59:49 AM »
And surely it's there in case Canon (or another manufacturer) decides to modify the upcoming firmware updates or camera bodies so that 3rd party lenses miraculously show strange behaviors :-p
Now, don't give them ideas  (in case they are still honest and aren't doing anything...)

Often 3rd party lenses are known to have issues with new camera bodies, but to be fair even some Canon lenses needed firmware updates to work the the 5d3.

But it might be realistic to say that for Canon (and probably other original manufacturers like Nikon) compatibility with existing 3rd party gear is not on top of their priority list :-p ... which is understandable since "Canon works with Canon" is a good selling point.

2583
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: A positive feedback for 6D
« on: November 09, 2012, 03:28:15 AM »
We can all use that argument now that they publicly admit that the 1dx and 1dc are exactly the same camera except for the firmware.
They didn't - Canon recently expressively stated that the 1dc uses another, better head dissipation system to deal with filming @4k...
Ok a better heat dissipation system, perhaps the size of a nickle is added to the 1dx to make a 1dc with diff firmware. How does that alter my comment? That it no longer is exact? lol

Well, I just wanted to counter the conspiracy theory that 1dx=1dc *exactly*, that's all. I didn't screw open both cameras to compare them, and I guess you didn't either, so we don't know what they changed.

But of course the fact is that the 1dc has a very strange, purely "pro" price and that as a side effect Canon cuts possible features from the not really cheap 1dx & 5d3. Hail Magic Lantern!

2584
EOS Bodies / Re: Where the heck is the 70D or 7D mkII?
« on: November 09, 2012, 03:22:35 AM »
Well, factually speaking planned obsolescence is really only an assumption and in some respects more of a myth (I don't know of any actual evidence that companies truly follow the concept of "planned obsolescence"...I've only ever known it to be more of a "conspiracy theory" kind of thing.) A company can also only really apply the notion of planned obsolescence in a market relatively free of competition.

This is only true if the lifespan of a product is a factor in the buyer's purchase decision - and for cheaper electronics, it isn't. Only very few people will ask "Will it be repairable after 3 years" when buying an lcd display, it's not even about power consumption (= hidden costs), it's really 90% of the time about the stickers on the front of it like xyz-ready.

I recently read an article about these tv lcd products, it's not just the features that are obsoleted by new standards, but these things are build so that parts that *will* break at prolonged use are needlessly so tightly integrated that you can only replace the whole circuit board - if that is available as a repair part at all. And have a look at your electronics @home - often they aren't designed to be repairable, not even to be opened at all.

Planned obsolescence is no conspiracy theory, but an economical concept from the 50s by reputable scientists to keep the economy running. And it does however positive or negative one thinks this is, though at the cost of higher drain on natural resources because recycling doesn't really work and needs energy that is limited atm.

Dslrs are a borderline case because they aren't cheap, but if I'd run a company I'd make sure my marketing people would have new features available for some time in the future instead of putting all eggs in one basket.

2585
EOS Bodies / Re: Where the heck is the 70D or 7D mkII?
« on: November 08, 2012, 05:46:24 PM »
Noise quality at high ISO is also determined by physics. The random "grainy" nature of 5D III ISO is primarily driven by the physical nature of light. It has far less to do with the electronic makeup of the sensor itself. Lower read noise might help the nature of noise at ISO 800, maybe ISO 1600 (MAYBE), but at high ISO, statistically speaking, the 5D II, 5D III, 1D X, D800, D600, etc. should all pretty much exhibit THE SAME kind of noise for an identical scene...as the hardware at ISO 1600+ really has very little to do with noise characteristics.

Thanks for the great explanation and insight, jrista! The only remark I have is that despite your theory that @iso1600+ these sensors should produce the same noise the raw samples I looked at show the more film-like pattern of the 5d3 vs. 5d2, an observation not only I have made?

But they have not yet put any commercial-grade high-volume sensor fabrication on those processes yet (god only knows why...if they don't do so soon, they will really be in a competitive bind.)

God might not know why, but marketing does - it's called "planned obsolescence" and means that you should time and stretch innovations so that users always find a reason to get a new product, either because the new one is better in some way (5d2->5d3: body, 5d3->5d4: sensor) or the old one simply breaks and repair is almost as expensive as a new product (most other electronics like lcd displays). Only fierce competition can prevent this method from getting too impudent - go Nikon, go!

2586
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: A positive feedback for 6D
« on: November 08, 2012, 04:59:54 PM »
We can all use that argument now that they publicly admit that the 1dx and 1dc are exactly the same camera except for the firmware.

They didn't - Canon recently expressively stated that the 1dc uses another, better head dissipation system to deal with filming @4k...

2587
EOS Bodies / Re: Where the heck is the 70D or 7D mkII?
« on: November 08, 2012, 04:55:15 PM »
I find this perplexing. Comments on this site and others from 5DIII users have led me to believe that the 5DIII shows some significant improvements over the 5DII in noise levels at higher ISOs. So, when you say the 6D uses "the same tech level as the 5DII/5DIII sensor" which sensor are you talking about?

The sensor hasn't been improved much on the 5d3, but the readout is cleaner (less banding) and the noise has a "nicer" film-like pattern giving it an edge on iso3200+ ... overall it might be a 0.5 stop improvement with a much more usable iso12800, but "significant improvement" isn't the word that comes to my mind here. The improvements of the 5d3 lie everywhere else, but Canon chose to reserve their best current sensor tech for the 1dx.

I can say that because I d/l'ed 5d2 and 5d3 raw studio samples myself (and so should you!), had a look at them in LR and up to iso1600 there is no difference I can see - some even figure that the 5d3 has worse sharpness than the 5d2 due to a stronger aa filter and it does have a bit less dynamic range (not that anyone would notice, but still...).

If people say the 5d3 is the high iso king imho that's because a) Canon marketing owns them, b) you see what you want to believe after paying $3500, c) the subjective impression how much less banding when raising shadows and the film-like noise pattern improves the picture varies among viewers and individual shots.

Last not least: Even if the iso noise on the 5d3 is somewhat improved, this even more shows the limited dynamic range of current Canon sensors that decreases further the higher the iso setting is. Disclaimer: The 5d3 is a great camera and I still didn't get a 5d2 because I still struggle with myself if I am willing to pay €3000, but the 2 stop improvement Canon predicted is a fairy tale.

2588
EOS Bodies / Re: Where the heck is the 70D or 7D mkII?
« on: November 08, 2012, 02:00:55 PM »
I would only disagree that the 6D IQ will surprise people...unless those people actually expect it to be much better than any other Canon sensor. Canon has not yet demonstrated an improved manufacturing process, so it is doubtful that the 6D sensor will be radically changed in any way.

The Canon exec in the Photokina interview in some other thread already stated that the 6d sensor uses the same tech level as the 5d2/5d3 sensor, so there won't be any positive surprises here - it's really a 5d2 in a smaller 60d-like body updated to current manufacturing processes like digic5.

2589
Lenses / Re: 24-70/4 MFT charts
« on: November 08, 2012, 03:33:03 AM »
So, I'm sure Canon is not about to butcher their own sells of the mII producing a sharpness-matching $1500 lens, they'd have to be crazy!

However the 24-70/4 has the latest IS system and near-macro capability, so it's really in a different class than the 24-70/2.8 which are pure event lenses where the IS wouldn't have time to lock anyway - internal competition should be minimal in this case.

When we saw the 24-70 mII charts we all thought: Ok, nothing will touch this lens... but on-the-field experiences have shown that it is good, but not that much better than the mI (certainly NOT $1000 extra!).

How much "worth" $1000 is certainly depends on how deep your pockets are, and the mk2 has better af quality with the 1dx/5d3 af system next to being sharper @f2.8 across the frame.

But as the LensRentals review suggests the mk2 has a more sturdy build that is less prone to decentering when taking a hit  - so you have to substract the price of some tours to Canon service from the mk2 price and add it to the mk1.

2590
EOS Bodies / Re: Where the heck is the 70D or 7D mkII?
« on: November 08, 2012, 02:55:40 AM »
The 60D and 7D, Nikon D7000 and Nikon D300s wars are next, clearly. Not sure why it's taking so long, but hope to see some announcements SOON

We should do a poll (maybe I'll really set one up) - but my guess: 7d2 end of 2013, 70d mid-2014 ... Canon wouldn't dare to release a 70d without an updated sensor and just by stuffing video af & touchscreen into it, and the recent sensors show that Canon currently cannot do any better on aps-c - that's why they released the 6d.

Or maybe I'm wrong and Canon really simply refreshes 60d+7d with a new digic and some gimmicks...

2591
EOS Bodies / Re: 70d
« on: November 08, 2012, 02:40:32 AM »
has there been any information on a 70d in the last 6months that i have missed?

also incase i cant wait ill just get a cheaper rebel 600d vs 650d any1 have opinions?

Imho the 70d will at least come 6 months after the more expensive 7d2, and I don't see the latter in the near future looking at Canon's sensor efforts - so for the 70d maybe mid-2014?

The good thing about the 600d is that it runs Magic Lantern right now which is the one reason for me sticking to Canon at all - the 650d has the better af though. And you can always look out for a used 60d with much better usability...

2592
Lenses / Re: 24-70/4 MFT charts
« on: November 08, 2012, 02:32:26 AM »
- For those 'amateurs' looking for a good lens, they are probably on an APS-C sensor, and therefore have MUCH better and less expensive choices like the 17-55 f2.8 IS.

Since Canon obviously is not able to release something better than the very iso-limited 18mp sensor (i.e. everything above iso 800 is crappy) it makes sense even for an amateur to get ff. When the 6d price drops it won't be far away from the 7d which some people only get for the sturdy build & sealing and not for the af or fps.

2593
Pricewatch Deals / Re: Sigma 35 f/1.4 Available for Preorder
« on: November 08, 2012, 02:29:30 AM »
Prices are going so ridiculous lately. Which lenses am i supposed to get if im an "entry level DSLR photographer" ? Just the kit lens?

You are talking of "entry level *FF* dslr photog" (otherwise there are good aps-c choices)? If it's ff, "entry level" is just a term created in forums and maybe by manufacturer's marketing and only means you can get a current camera body for less than $3000 w/o lenses.

2594
Pricewatch Deals / Re: Sigma 35 f/1.4 Available for Preorder
« on: November 08, 2012, 02:04:33 AM »
I know what bokeh is, I know and enjoy onions to the dismay of others, but what is onion bokeh?  I know I could google it, but that's too easy.


Ok, I didn't expect you to be *that* lazy :-p ... the Tamron has it, the Canon to a lesser extent: point light sources in the bokeh have rings like you cut an onion in half. Samples:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=14368928&postcount=1286

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=14413896&postcount=1559

2595
Lenses / Re: Canon EF 24-70 f/2.8L IS [CR1]
« on: November 08, 2012, 01:57:02 AM »
i could care less about the weight and bulk

But since this lens is aimed at the pro market, less weight should be really better if shooting all day. The one thing I find strange though is that people who recommend the much heavier 70-200/2.8is all the time now say that the 100g weight loss on the 24-70ii is important to them :-o

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