January 29, 2015, 07:46:54 PM

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - Marsu42

Pages: 1 ... 179 180 [181] 182 183 ... 371
EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« on: June 26, 2013, 06:28:55 AM »
1/180th vs 1/200th...that hardly makes a difference in real world shooting.  2 slots would have been nicer...but my point there was that neither of these bodies use CF cards.  I'd rather have 1 CF slot..

I've got sd from the 60d, and I admit I don't see any inherent advantage of cf over sd, quite the other way around actually because of the size.

As for x-sync: Currently I'm very often shooting handheld macro @1/250s x-sync with my 60d because of the faster recycle time & higher power over hss plus motion stopping capability. Yes, of course 1/180s is not much less than 1/200s, but the point is that even 1/200s is rather slow and everyting less hurts. But that's a budget decision on Canon's side, Magic Lantern has figured out you cannot force the 6d to do 1/200s because of the slower shutter.

there is no 7d2!!!!

Typo on my side, I was talking of the 7d1 ... I meant to say that for a good all around combination you need two Canon cameras (except if you go for the 5d3): a 7d plus a 6d to have everything covered if you want low light capability and decent servo af.

both of these camera have cut specs!  They are both cheaper versions of their 2nd tier FF line.  Compare the d600 to the d800, and then read the nikon forums and talk to nikon shooters and you definitely find that yes ---the grass is in fact always greener

I never read traitorous Nikon forums or touch Nikon gear ;-p but I guess you're correct. A good point is that the af spread of the d600 isn't (much) larger than the 6d, so they'll have the same recompose issues with thin dof.

And a PS...attached is one image that i do think is telling in regards to the 6d's AF ---I was shooting a comdey show, just waiting fort he headliner to come on and said lets see what happens.  Settings --

*Knock on wood* this thread has convinced me there are lots of happy 6d users out there and I'm sure I'll also be happy with the 6d if I wait until it has dropped to a decent price in Germany (currently much more expensive than in the US or the Nikon)...

... but as famous last words and concerning the topic I'm personally "not impressed" by what I read about the 2013 6d af and have tried for myself, because of no x-sensor @f2.8 (only one @f4+), low af spread and inability to make use of the enhanced precision of the newest lenses I'd rather label it as "decent with low light specialization".

EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« on: June 25, 2013, 07:10:25 PM »
I have an issue with this, because, its not as if there is no alternative, just not in this price range.

Of course I was talking of the same price range, that's the whole point...

Back to my original issue with your comments though, it sounds like you just want a mk3 for the price of a 6d, and it also sounds like you think the d600 is more on par with the mk3 too, which isn't true.

You've misunderstood me there, the d600 is a 6d competitor because of the price range alone, let alone the vastly different specs.

max sync speed - 1/200
memory cards - SD

6d only has 1/180s x-sync, d600 has *two* sd-card slots, the latter a decisive difference for business shoting.

So, the d600, while yes it is a fine camera and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to any shooters who currently shoot with nikon gear, but ---I wouldn't recommend switching systems based on AF alone. 

I wouldn't either, that's why I'll stay with Canon (and because of Magic Lantern), but it's an important difference nevertheless and the topic of this whole thread.

Again, kind of sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too. With all things in photography you have to make compromises unless you have an unlimited budget.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to have a cake and eat it at the same time :-) ...

... but I'm well aware of the need to compromise, that's why I've got my current equipment: 60d (instead of 7d2), 70-300L (instead of 70-200L+extenders), 17-40L (instead of 16-35L), 100 non-L macro (only recently upgraded it to the L), 430ex2 (only just bought a "big" flash). You see, I'm putting much though into what I really need and what can afford at a given time.

This list can go on and on...we can't expect canon or nikon to tailor make our products to each of our personal needs and desires.  So we balance the decision based on wants vs needs vs available budget.

As a second camera the 6d is just fine, and I'll be sure to keep my 60d along when I buy the 6d - but it is a rather specialized product, while the Nikon is a more "overall" competent model if you only have one camera body.

I feel Nikon has a more coherent setup here, the less expensive camera has cut specs across the board, while Canon chose to add some consumer features (gps, wifi), cut some things a lot (esp. af) while keeping other specs on par with the more expensive model. That's the cause of the whole 6d "value" discussion - if you happen to want/need what the  6d delivers you're happy, if you expect more of an upgrade over the 5d2 in this price range in other areas you might be a little set back and wait for the price to drop some.

EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« on: June 25, 2013, 10:37:15 AM »
If so, then in addition to the manufacturing cost, you also have the cost of assembling the guts inside a one-piece case instead of being able to assemble the case in pieces around the guts.  Depending on what their manufacturing processes look like, the additional costs could be considerable (or not), particularly if the milled design requires a lot of hand assembly where the plastic design does not.  Obviously I don't know whether that's an issue or not.

This is ot, but I guess the af issue has been discussed to death...

.. so concerning the metal framing: Good point, and it might be an issue for production because manufacturers seem to tend to leave the front open. With Nikon d7000, this is nearly a scam because they announce the camera as metal but show only top & back diagrams, and for a reason - the front is plastic. I don't know how much metal there is in the 6d except for the plastic top, I cannot see it from the Canon sealing schematics.

Lenses / Re: Canon EF 35mm f/1.4L II Mentioned [CR1]
« on: June 25, 2013, 09:23:34 AM »
and it may be held until a new full frame camera is ready to go in 2014.

Can anybody explain this to me - why would Canon hold the 35L2 even if it's ready? Because they're still making lots of $$$ with the mk1 and only a high-mp ff camera would really need a mk2?

EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« on: June 24, 2013, 03:10:42 AM »
I would assume that a non-full-frame DSLR with GPS would not make the same tradeoff with regards to the flash.  However, I would expect such devices to still be made of plastic, not because of the antennas, but because it is the difference between ten or twelve cents of moulded ABS plastic and tens of dollars worth of milled magnesium alloy.

Great information, thanks! Though for my 2ct you are putting too much weight into production costs: how much metal there is in this price class is mainly marketing because it's the perceived "sturdiness" of the camera, even if this probably isn't backed by reality. And the primary reason for Canon leaving out the flash out of their ff cameras will be that's it's their tradition and thus they can get away with it: it's generating even more profit to make users buy a €300-€500 unit just to serve as a flash master than to leave out some metal. For this reason, I'm not so sure they won't add a pop-up flash in the 70d/7d2 if it's possible to include it alongside gps/wifi with no (big?) loss of signal strength.

EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« on: June 23, 2013, 08:35:03 PM »
I believe that Canon made the decision to leave out the cross-type AF points to make room for the WiFi and GPS.

I hope I'll not be reprimanded for mentioning this, but the af array is on the *bottom* of the camera- afaik major space (and production costs) saving only occur due to making the af array smaller, i.e. like 5d2 and not like 5d3 ... here's good article on this by our very own Dr. Neuro: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/photography-tips/Canon-EOS-DSLR-Autofocus-Explained.aspx

As for the top: Canon didn't include a flash (like in the Nikon d600) because that's where the gps/wifi antennas are, for the same reason the casing is not full metal unlike the other Canon ff cameras.

Animal Kingdom / Re: Wildlife Tips?
« on: June 23, 2013, 04:03:42 PM »
Do you use Spot and Partial Metering often as well as Center-Point Focus?  Av or Tv; generally?

* Mode: For wildlife (I've been shooting (semi-)wild horses during the last months a lot) I'm using Av to pre-set the desired depth of field. With the 6d/5d3/1dx or Magic Lantern's auto iso you can then set a lowest shutter speed so you don't get motion blur, and let the camera set the iso. If you use flash remember that beyond x-sync the flash power drops a lot, so you might want to lock the shutter speed at x-sync.

* Metering: For servo af I use spot (center point af, only the 1d can link it to other af points), otherwise eval with a little ec correction which is a matter of experience.

AI Servo usually? Thanks for any guidance although I'm sure I'll have to learn a lot just by doing.

* AF: Everyone raves about how important ai servo is, an this is certainly true for sports & action. But for non-moving wildlife you'll usually want the eyes in focus and if the animal isn't at 90 degrees angle servo will focus on the front, i.e. with a thinner depth of field the eyes will be out of focus. So use one-shot af and either focus the eyes & recompose, or with a 1d/5d3 af select the correct af point, plus don't be too shy to re-af and re-shoot a couple of times because getting the eyes in focus is a lot of hit & miss really.

EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« on: June 23, 2013, 09:37:58 AM »
Fine.  I stand by my points and opinion, and you are equally entitled to yours.  I will argue no more - I've got better things to to do  8)

Actually, I also have :-p (not that I'd think you'd wanted to imply otherwise), I just felt the need to reply to your criticism since I value your contributions to CR, have fun shooting!

EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« on: June 23, 2013, 09:25:11 AM »
My problem is that you while you say you are planning to get the 6D, I read you doing little other than continually criticizing it.

In this case, you really might want to try to read again, I even often put a disclaimer under my posts to prevent just what you implied now. - I went out of my way writing about the 6d being a good camera over crop or 5d2, even topping the 5d3 in some things: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11309.0

If you really want the camera, fine, then buy it.  If you don't really want it, then buy another a different camera...and that's also fine.

Or if I simply want to wait some for the prices in Germany to drop (€100 in the last *week*, here it's still *more* expensive than the d600), that's also fine. While I'm doing that, I feel free to contribute to any threads here from people wondering about the same thing I wondered about, often pointing to my positive 6d fact list mentioned above. In fact, I'd feel free to post even if I'd decide never to buy a 6d because I'd think crop is sufficient for me and let other people know about my decision making process :-)

And, with all due respect, the implication that owner's bias trumps the experience they have through ownership is fallacious.  If I own something that isn't actually good, I quickly sell it and replace it with something that is.  It's that simple.

Without putting too fine a point on it, in my very humble opinion you are mistaken because there is no alternative to the 6d with Canon and in this price range except for the outdated 5d2. So what would someone who's unhappy with the 6d replace it with? Sell all glass and buy Nikon? Spend €1000 + 6d loss more and get a 5d3? See - it isn't that simple. Plus many people are simply attached to things once they bought it, I know I am.

As for what trumps what - I'd take my privilege to evaluate this on a case by case basis. In your case, experience certainly trumps owner's bias (if there is any at all). In other cases where someone does low light photography, then reads about lacking servo af performance, goes outside, snaps something and posts the (one?) keeper saying "it's just fine" I'm not so sure.

EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« on: June 23, 2013, 07:06:25 AM »
P.S. Not trying to be disrespectful, but it seems to me that the primary posters that keep questioning the AF system on the 6D are those that don't actually own the body.

That would be me? The general problem as I see it is that people who have shelled out a lot of $$$ for a dslr might have a bias toward liking the camera, as of course it's a good camera, as is any current dlsr. Fortunately have a very matter-of-fact approach and seem to have a lot of experience with the 6d, but in general I'd be hesitant to prefer any given "owner" opinion over a few hours of "non-owner" testing, esp. if people don't also own the competition (7d, 5d3).

Testing one in shop or using a friends' is not really a substitute for having the camera, calibrating a lens, and becoming familiar with using it.  I'm not saying that you can have no knowledge, but you certainly don't have the knowledge that I have acquired by owning two the cameras and taking thousands upon thousands of photos with them in a variety of conditions.

My contribution to this thread was that the af point spread is far smaller than on the crop cameras, and thus focusing & recomposing might get trickier with a small dof, lowering the keeper rate with spot-on af @100% crop. I explicitly suspected that my problems when trying the 6d also have to do with a lack of experience/technique - but even your two cameras are bound to have the af points in the same place as all the other 5d2/6d. So I really appreciate your great input and reviews, but in this case I don't see how extended usage of a camera changes the position of the af points :-o

EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« on: June 22, 2013, 01:55:28 AM »
I just wanted to say that with a 600EX-RT on top providing the red AF assist grid, the outer points on the 6D work fantastic in any lighting conditions, from bright sunlight to a pitch black room. Now that I've moved to the Canon RT system I have absolutely no problems with the 6D's autofocus

Just two points (though of course it's great you're happy with the combination):

1. You wouldn't have needed the expensive 600rt for that, the larger spread of the newest flash is made for the 1dx/5d3 af array - for the 5d2/6d af a 580ex/430ex/3rdparty-something would be sufficient.

2. Of course you can af in pitch blackness with af assist, same goes for my 60d, but one main advantage of the 6d is to focus w/o beam distraction & shoot in available light (high iso capability) - so fixing the outer af point light sensitivity with af assist doesn't entirely satisfy me.

Lenses / Re: New Wide Angles Lenses in 2013 [CR2]
« on: June 20, 2013, 07:19:17 AM »
I can confirm that a EF 16-50 f/4 prototype exist.

.. which most likely would exclude a 2013 release date, thanks. And Canon will sell the more expensive 14-24 uwa first anyway to max profit, just like they sell the 600rt flash and we're still waiting for the cheaper version

 Last not least, there also is a 17-40 mk2 prototype, so depending on marketing strategy Canon might opt to go for this cheaper version than a more expensive 16-50L ... or they just cheat a little on the focal lengths and relabel the 17-40L to 16-50L :->

EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« on: June 20, 2013, 07:02:14 AM »
Your argument is unique to your market; the D600 is $100+ more than the 6D in the North American market.  He wasn't wrong by the market standard that he lives in, your market is obviously different.

I know :-> - but I couldn't help but to make the point that Canon's strategy, i.e. a Japanese company selling in *all* countries, cannot be judged by looking at US-$ prices alone. If someone says the d6 will *always* be less  expensive than d600 which is an absolute theory it can be contradicted by one different example from another large market, even if the US might be the biggest (as things should be :-)).

well i believe that you are never check on real life and only read on website. even you check on bnh store: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Digital-Cameras/ci/9811/N/4288586282  u can see that nikon D600 is 100usd more expensive that canon 6D. so do your homework or reality check

Well, your homework consists of finding a globe and trying to find the US. Got it (it might say "Center of the world" on your version)? Good. Then look at all the other countries, amazing, isn't it? Well, and Canon sells dlsr everywhere, that's why I quoted the € (that's "Euro") prices, and even if you don't care about that in an English-written forum there are always the Brits and the Ozzies who don't pay in US-$.

Lenses / Re: New Wide Angles Lenses in 2013 [CR2]
« on: June 19, 2013, 06:15:22 PM »
The 16-50 F4L IS sounds REALLY intriguing, lets hope it's around 1k and I'll buy it. :)

No way - the 17-40L already is €600 after years and years on the market, a wider version (ad $$$) plus larger zoom range (add $$$) plus better iq (add much more $$$) will result in a hefty price tag - and Canon will sell it, because a really good 14-24 will be even more expensive.

For me, this is good news because I'm very happy I bough my 17-40L at a really reasonable price for a sealed L lens, it's sturdy and has good for what I do with it :-)

EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« on: June 19, 2013, 05:42:10 PM »
As for complaining that Canon "hobbled the 6D"...if they did, it was not for fear of impacting sales of the 5D3.  It was to ensure that the Nikon D600 could never be offered at a lower street price than the 6D (because Canon's frontend cost on the 6D is lower than the Nikon's for the D600).  I thought this was common knowledge?  The 6D's feature set has nothing at all to do with the 5D3...think about it.

I thought about it and you're wrong: the d600 costs nearly €200 less than the 6d, and it has been this way from the start. Canon probably figures that €200 will make nobody jump ship.

 The reason why Canon did the 6d as it is was ...
* save research time after the Nikon d600 release, i.e. recycle as much as they had (6d = 6ßd+5d2+5d3),
* to sidestep Nikon d600 (gps, wifi, low-light af but less af points) while at the same time
* protecting the 5d3 sales (af precision, af spread, fps, ...) and most of all to
* generate profits: I'm sure the 6d is cheap to produce.

Disclaimer: The 6d is a good camera, esp. over the 5d2 (see my positive fact list: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11309.0) but if you want to shoot af shallow dof in non-center you might be less than happy if you want to stay with Canon but not pay €3000 for a camera body that probably also won't last as long as the successor due to the legacy sensor tech.

Pages: 1 ... 179 180 [181] 182 183 ... 371