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Messages - Chuck Alaimo

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451
EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« on: June 25, 2013, 08:37:30 PM »
I have an issue with this, because, its not as if there is no alternative, just not in this price range.

Of course I was talking of the same price range, that's the whole point...

In my eyes, the d600 isn't really any 'better' than the 6d in the real world, only on paper.  In practice, they are right on par with one another.

Back to my original issue with your comments though, it sounds like you just want a mk3 for the price of a 6d, and it also sounds like you think the d600 is more on par with the mk3 too, which isn't true.

You've misunderstood me there, the d600 is a 6d competitor because of the price range alone, let alone the vastly different specs.

Price range and overall capabilites...LOL...it's funny because I just shot a wedding and my second shooter had a d3s and a d4...you know what...my 6d images stand up very nicely against these 2 upper end nikon bodies...

max sync speed - 1/200
memory cards - SD

6d only has 1/180s x-sync, d600 has *two* sd-card slots, the latter a decisive difference for business shoting.

1/180th vs 1/200th...that hardly makes a difference in real world shooting.  2 slots would have been nicer...but my point there was that neither of these bodies use CF cards.  I'd rather have 1 CF slot..

So, the d600, while yes it is a fine camera and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to any shooters who currently shoot with nikon gear, but ---I wouldn't recommend switching systems based on AF alone. 

I wouldn't either, that's why I'll stay with Canon (and because of Magic Lantern), but it's an important difference nevertheless and the topic of this whole thread.

Again, kind of sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too. With all things in photography you have to make compromises unless you have an unlimited budget.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to have a cake and eat it at the same time :-) ...
Yeah, it would be great, but...lol.  we are talking about likelihood here!!!!!  Canon won't be adding another 2k FF, not until it's time to talk 6d2...

... but I'm well aware of the need to compromise, that's why I've got my current equipment: 60d (instead of 7d2), 70-300L (instead of 70-200L+extenders), 17-40L (instead of 16-35L), 100 non-L macro (only recently upgraded it to the L), 430ex2 (only just bought a "big" flash). You see, I'm putting much though into what I really need and what can afford at a given time.

there is no 7d2!!!!  not yet at any rate.  And the price of that will most likelyu be close to, or equal the cost of a 6d.  So unless your shooting sports and need the frame rate, my bet is that the 6d will still be better  for those that shoot weddings - APS-C sensors, unless canon has one hell of an update to them, I don't see an APS-C body pumping out great images at ISO 6400 or greater.

This list can go on and on...we can't expect canon or nikon to tailor make our products to each of our personal needs and desires.  So we balance the decision based on wants vs needs vs available budget.

As a second camera the 6d is just fine, and I'll be sure to keep my 60d along when I buy the 6d - but it is a rather specialized product, while the Nikon is a more "overall" competent model if you only have one camera body.

The only area I think the d600 really edges out the 6d is in servo mode tracking, due to the density of AF points.  the spread of those points is really no different though, so tracking is better, but you still aren't getting that extreme corner framed shot though

I feel Nikon has a more coherent setup here, the less expensive camera has cut specs across the board, while Canon chose to add some consumer features (gps, wifi), cut some things a lot (esp. af) while keeping other specs on par with the more expensive model. That's the cause of the whole 6d "value" discussion - if you happen to want/need what the  6d delivers you're happy, if you expect more of an upgrade over the 5d2 in this price range in other areas you might be a little set back and wait for the price to drop some.


both of these camera have cut specs!  They are both cheaper versions of their 2nd tier FF line.  Compare the d600 to the d800, and then read the nikon forums and talk to nikon shooters and you definitely find that yes ---the grass is in fact always greener because the many of nikon folks wanted the d800 to be a d700 with better AF and ISO performance - what they got was a MP bloated beast which some are happy with, but not all by a long shot.  The d600 is more what d700 users were looking for, but gimped (1/4000th SS limit, no sync port, SD only, less rugged build).

As to that last statement...5d2 users have their upgrade...its the 5d3!  Remember that when the 5d2 was launched it was very close to 3k in price.  The successor to the 5d2 is the 5d3 - and because the mk3 was such a large upgrade both in specs and cost, and the market was calling for a cheaper FF that wasn't 'used,' so now we have a 6d.  I'd be willign to bet that nikon's reasoning with the d600 is similar.



see inside quote for replies...

And a PS...attached is one image that i do think is telling in regards to the 6d's AF ---I was shooting a comdey show, just waiting fort he headliner to come on and said lets see what happens.  Settings --

ISO 25,600, f2.8, 1/40th  ---no post processing (simply exporting the RAW to jpeg).  It was dark as hell in there, yes it is center point...no flash for AF assist either.  I was using my 70-200 which does not have IS so I couldn't go much below 1/40th, hence why its dark...the point is...the AF should have been hunting there, but it didn't!!!

452
6D Sample Images / Re: Anything shot with a 6D
« on: June 25, 2013, 06:36:01 PM »
I have been really liking my 6d...it's odd, comparing to my mk3, there are some times where the colors fro mthe 6d pop a lot more than the mk3.  And other times where the mk3 shines...I have been using them in tandem and having a lot of fun!

6d, 50mm lens at f8, 1/125, and 2 430 ex's to camera right

I hate happy couples, but that's a nice shot!

I know what i do isn't everyones cup of tea, but, I see mostly landscapes and macro work here.  As someone who was greatly interested in how the 6d would stand up to shooting both people and weddings seeing more portrait work would have been awesome.  So, I post my portrait work here, that way others on the fence and wondering may see!

First is a mix of both portrait/landscape!

then a few wedding images

453
EOS Bodies / Re: Pick between two options for the Canon 7D II
« on: June 25, 2013, 04:49:05 PM »

Quote
Canon does need to get a slow camera out there, optimized for IQ and low ISO performance
6D is just like that.

While i have the 6d, and yes it is a fine backup body to my 5d3, what I was referring to is the much rumored big MP body.  I said LOW ISO performance, better IQ in the 100-800 range.  The 6d  shines in the high ISO.

Yes, I like mine too. For now, ~20MP is enough, but if there was an option of high MP FF camera, let say ... 6.5D 50MP, 1fps, usable ISO 1600, for $2000 ... I would get it instead of 6D (specially if it was mirrorless :)) )

You are a dreamer!!!!  50MP body APS-C sensor for 2k?   that sounds like what we'll have in 2020!

454
EOS Bodies / Re: Pick between two options for the Canon 7D II
« on: June 25, 2013, 02:47:25 PM »



Quote
Canon does need to get a slow camera out there, optimized for IQ and low ISO performance
6D is just like that.

While i have the 6d, and yes it is a fine backup body to my 5d3, what I was referring to is the much rumored big MP body.  I said LOW ISO performance, better IQ in the 100-800 range.  The 6d  shines in the high ISO.



455
EOS Bodies / Re: Pick between two options for the Canon 7D II
« on: June 25, 2013, 01:24:13 PM »
3rd option:
28 MP APS-H, usable ISO 6400, 8 FPS + EF-S compatible in 18MP crop mode with 10fps

APs-H?  Now come on, you know that ain't happening, it will be the good old 1.6 crop. 

Also, a jack of all trades camera like that would compromise on certain things.  With such a huge file size 8 FPS is dreaming.

I'd much rather it be specialized ---optimized for whichever direction - do you want speed and high ISO, or big MP's?  Canon does need to get a slow camera out there, optimized for IQ and low ISO performance (the good old DR debate), but that most certainly ain't happening if you go jack of all trades.  Again, the 7d was very popular among sports and wildlife shooters, where FPS and ISO capabilities rule.  the other camp is those stepping up from the rebel bodies but don't quite have the budget to go FF.  I was one of those users, and while I loved the 7d for the time I had it, it wasn't the camera I needed. 

The next 7d will mostly be a baby 1dx, lower mp's, high fps, some form of the 1dx AF, and much better performance at high ISO's.


456
EOS Bodies / Re: Pick between two options for the Canon 7D II
« on: June 25, 2013, 11:34:20 AM »
I have to wonder how many that voted for lower MP's and better ISO performance will then turn around and flame the 7d2 if it does in fact end up being low MP high ISO...lol

Ahhhh the 7d2, such a tricky camera to ponder.  When I had mine, I rarely had the need to use the high speed - I generally had that turned off because it was just overkill - but then again, I am not a sports shooter!

I guess it can go either way ---a baby 1dx or a baby 5d3...I'd hope for the latter because unless it does have good performance at high ISO, it won't be a camera I will consider...


457
EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« on: June 25, 2013, 11:12:05 AM »

And, with all due respect, the implication that owner's bias trumps the experience they have through ownership is fallacious.  If I own something that isn't actually good, I quickly sell it and replace it with something that is.  It's that simple.

Without putting too fine a point on it, in my very humble opinion you are mistaken because there is no alternative to the 6d with Canon and in this price range except for the outdated 5d2. So what would someone who's unhappy with the 6d replace it with? Sell all glass and buy Nikon? Spend €1000 + 6d loss more and get a 5d3? See - it isn't that simple. Plus many people are simply attached to things once they bought it, I know I am.


I have an issue with this, because, its not as if there is no alternative, just not in this price range.  it's like that with all things, you get this for that, and if you want more you have to step it up to the next package.  To use my own business as an analogy - my mid level package offers ceremony and full reception coverage, but if you want ceremony prep, you move to the next tier, you want a second shooter, you move to the next tier.  Now I am not as stringent as canon, and, for me its not like i have to retool my whole factory just to offer a compromise in my packages, but either way - the analogy holds true.  You can't act like there are no other options - because there are!  Even in the 6d price range or less, you want FF but don't have the dough you can find product...i see the 1dmk2 and the 1ds at about $650 - 1dsmk2 for around $1500, and there are 1dsmk3 floating around the $2600 range.

So, you only option is far from selling you gear and moving to nikon, and real world ---the d600's only real
AF advantage is in servo mode because of the extra points, but the spread of those points is about the same - so if your trying to shoot sports on a budget or wildlife and need tracking, then you want a 7d or a mk3 or a d600.  But, the d600 offers no advantage for the "low light fast prime lens far corner composition and I don't want to focus and recompose or crop in post issue."

Back to my original issue with your comments though, it sounds like you just want a mk3 for the price of a 6d, and it also sounds like you think the d600 is more on par with the mk3 too, which isn't true.  Many of the 6'd shortcoming are in the d600 too:

Max shutter speed - 1/4000
max sync speed - 1/200
memory cards - SD

And - native ISO on the d600 is 6400 ---you have to use the expansion to boost it to 25,600.

So, the d600, while yes it is a fine camera and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to any shooters who currently shoot with nikon gear, but ---I wouldn't recommend switching systems based on AF alone. 

Again, kind of sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too.  With all things in photography you have to make compromises unless you have an unlimited budget.  Like when i made my 70-200 decision, I couldn't afford the IS version at the time ---compromise, the f4IS and the f2.8 non IS were right in the same ballpark - so I made the compromise of losing IS in favor of the 2.8 aperture.  When I bought my 6d, I was looking for a backup body that could hold its own in most situations with my mk3.  My budget just couldn't afford a second mk3, so I compromised and went with the 6d.  This list can go on and on...we can't expect canon or nikon to tailor make our products to each of our personal needs and desires.  So we balance the decision based on wants vs needs vs available budget. 

458
6D Sample Images / Re: Anything shot with a 6D
« on: June 22, 2013, 01:22:07 AM »
I have been really liking my 6d...it's odd, comparing to my mk3, there are some times where the colors fro mthe 6d pop a lot more than the mk3.  And other times where the mk3 shines...I have been using them in tandem and having a lot of fun!

6d, 50mm lens at f8, 1/125, and 2 430 ex's to camera right

459
6D Sample Images / Re: Anything shot with a 6D
« on: June 19, 2013, 01:13:35 PM »
here's another new one

460
EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« on: June 19, 2013, 01:05:18 PM »

Back to the point, so far I have not felt too limited by the AF on the 6d.  in lower light, if i want the far ppoints for specific, precise framing, there's the mk3.  the wide angle can go on the 6d and center point is just fine for that kind of stuff.


+1. That's how I use the combination of the 5D3 and 6D - Tele's and/or wide aperture lenses on the 5D3 the the WA on the 6D so that the DOF is not a concern. 

Cheers ... J.R.

With that said though, it all depends on the light.  Like last evening, had no issue shooting wide open on my 1.8 or on my 50 1.4... or at full zoom on the 70-200 at 2.8, but we finished shooting at right around 9PM.  If we had kept going, no doubt I'd be in center point only territory on the 6d...

I am sure at some point down the road the AF will bug me, I mean hell, I have found situations during receptions where the dance floor is dark but the dinner area is bright enough to make the mk3 hunt for focus. 

Either way, compared to my old backup (7d), even with the more robust AF I'd rather be on the 6d because ---the files from the 6d look pretty much just like files from my mk3.  The 7d files, while good at lower ISO's, above 1600 they do fall apart (and yeah, when all I had was the 7d I did work in the 1600-4000 range and made it work - with the 6d it just works!).






461
EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« on: June 19, 2013, 04:06:34 AM »
and another, again using the points to the edge - this time

ISO 1600
85mm 1.8 at 1.8
1/160th

Very nice ... how did you focus? Did you use flash assist?

no flash, just ambient light.  That was at about 8:15 PM... sunset, but of course, taken under a canopy of trees. 


Only 1 x type AF point ... c'mon. They could have done it a wee bit better with the than what they have without impacting the sales of the 5D3 - a few more x type AF points couldn't have seriously impacted the sales of the 5D3?

I do have the 5D3 and the 6D is only a backup / second body. I feel shortchanged by Canon with the AF performance of the 6D, which otherwise is a very good camera with excellent IQ.

I guess it all depends on what one's definition of "good" AF is - the center point in low light might be "impressive" but the overall AF performance makes me cringe sometimes (as mentioned in my earlier posts).

Regarding your comment of High ISO performance making up for the lacking AF, it all depends on perspective. For me, high ISO performance is useless if the shot is out of focus. The only reason I bought the 6D over a second 5D3 was because I didn't want to put in too much money on a second body. Did I compromise - Yes, and with full knowledge of what I was getting into.

It's not that you can't get good sharp shots with the 6D, its only that it's damn difficult at wide open apertures.

Just tossing it out there ---but --- it isn't easy getting good sharp shots at wide apertures in general, you have to be very careful and pick and choose your battles. 

Like you, i struggled with the idea of pouring that much dough into a second mk3.  I rented the 6d to see for myself just how good/bad it is.  And I was pleasantly surprised.  Is the mk3 the better camera?  Hell yes.  But as a backup body, the 6d fits in quite nicely.  So far, it has handled every situation I have put it in admirably!  The little things I miss aren't even in the AF -- sync port for remote flashes!  Now that I do miss - at Weddings I will often have off camera lights, and one on cam set low to give a little fill on the faces - no sync port means i can't do that.  No worries though, I can let the mk3 take that roll on (I may actually grab a video light anyways, that could sit atop the trigger and issue solved). 

I have yet to shoot in a situation where I have hit the 1/4000th limit, and if i do, well ,the then mk3 can jump in. 

Back to the point, so far I have not felt too limited by the AF on the 6d.  in lower light, if i want the far ppoints for specific, precise framing, there's the mk3.  the wide angle can go on the 6d and center point is just fine for that kind of stuff.

462
EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« on: June 19, 2013, 03:32:41 AM »
and another, again using the points to the edge - this time

ISO 1600
85mm 1.8 at 1.8
1/160th


463
EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« on: June 19, 2013, 03:01:39 AM »
J.R., I'm not sure what lens and what shooting situation you would be in, where you would need to use the outer focus points in low light.  In any case, don't do that, because they aren't meant for low light.

Are you in shutter or aperture priority, or manual?  I assume you're at some event or wedding with a wider angle lens or something?


The biggest trouble I face is when I'm shooting at wide open apertures. In low light you need those wide open apertures and I find too many of my shots out of focus with using the center point focus and recompose - kills the fun of it.

As Chuck mentioned, one can always crop later to get the composition right but it lessens the fun a bit so I am predominantly use WA on the 6D and wide aperture lenses on the 5D3.

I guess the main griping about the 6D AF comes from the fact that Canon intentionally crippled the AF and left it only as good as the AF of the 5D2 when it could have been better.

TY J.R. - but, that advice is only for the pinch.  Hell, even on the mk3 I encounter situations when I can only use the centerpoint or use on camera flash (i tend to prefer off cam flash). You do what you got to do to get the shot. 

As to your other statement -- "I guess the main griping about the 6D AF comes from the fact that Canon intentionally crippled the AF and left it only as good as the AF of the 5D2 when it could have been better."  If they had slapped a more robust AF in there, then what makes it different enough from the mk3?  Honestly, if you want uncrippled AF, then save the extra $$$ for the 5d3.  As a few others have said, the high ISO performance alone makes up for the lackings in AF. 

As to the example of the child on a sofa, there are ways, why not slap a flash on there, the AF beam may be enough?

anywho, here is a shot from an engagement shoot I did tonight - 6d, 70-200 2.8 (yup, the discontinued non IS version, ISO 400 --- using the far left AF point!  cheers!


464
EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« on: June 18, 2013, 02:56:23 PM »
Maybe I am just thinking about the 6d's AF from a different place, because I also have a 5d3 - I can use the 6d up to the point where the mk3 has to take over (my 6d can be the machete and the mk3 is the scalpel!)

Either way, I am happy with the purchase!  :)

465
Lenses / Re: Canon EF 70-200 f/2.8L Non-IS Discontinued?
« on: June 17, 2013, 04:51:09 PM »
In honor of this fabulous lens, here's a shot taken with it from this saturday...

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