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Messages - ScottyP

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241
LR4 is far better than LR3 for IQ retention. I could push my RAW files harder in LR4 than in LR3, and it also handles highlight recover much better.

If your willing to upgrade, it's well worth the $$$.

I bit the bullet and upgraded to LR4.  I hate to say it, but I really like it better than LR3.  The new controls are simpler and more intuitive ("whites"), and I think the NR works better too.

242
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 6D or wait for New 7D?
« on: December 26, 2012, 07:58:39 PM »
Funny.  I made the exact same post a month ago, only I asked about 6D, 7D2, 5D3 too.

I just got my 6D a few days before Christmas.

I would have to say go for the 6D.  Having a FF camera is very useful.  Very, very interesting compared to just a newer crop. 

I avoided shooting ISO 400 on my T3i, and I would never shoot above 800 ISO.  I have seen people showing off select images from 7D that they have modified significantly in post that look good shot at 1600 or 3200, or even a few from 6400, BUT, a.)  not all of one's images would lend themselves to such treatment, and 2.)  who wants to do that degree of intensive PP NR on every image?

I have been shooting the 6D at 3200 and it looks fantastic.  It looks great at 5000, and even good at 6400 untouched in PP.  With some PP, I could make it look better, but I have not even been messing with it that much.  (LR3 needed upgrading to LR 4 for the new camera).  I got LR4 yesterday, and it really is better than LR3, contrary to my initial thinking.  That ISo ability is huge, it means so many indoor shooting situations where I can avoid flash altogether, or use it only for fill.  I LOVE it.

The inherently shallower DOF is great too.  Not so much because I want to use primes wide open for heavy effects, but because it makes F/4 look like f/2.5 did on a crop body.

I may someday pick up the 7D2 (whenever that might appear), but I can wait a year after its release after the prices go down.  My T3i still works great when I want "reach" from a crop body.

As for the 6D's AF, it may not be the 61-point system, but it also lacks some of the complications that go along with all that complexity.  I don't generally shoot super-fast things, or at least not in super-serious situations where one certain try would not be just as good as the next try. 

What I do love is the one big, bright center AF point in the 6D, which catches AF instantly in low light (-3 EV, whatever that means to you  ;)).  Supposedly the 5D3 may struggle with lags on dim light focus.  The 6D also has big obvious RED AF points you can see in the dark too. 

In any event, bodies are constantly depreciating, and new ones that are 2x better are always beig released every few years.  Lenses hold their value.  I can sit out a generation on bodies.  By saving $1,000 on 6D vs. 5D3, I was able to buy an extra prime lens, and still pocket some cash.

Good luck!

243
Your theory that others have not used different patterns is contradicted by the facts.  Do a little research before making such claims.
 
There are many Bayer type patterns patented by Kodak.  The alternate patterns have not worked out to be popular. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_filter
Fujifilm is the new kid on the block to try alternate color filters, others who tried them did not find success.
 
There was the CYGM pattern used by Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Kodak in the late 1990's.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CYGM_filter
http://www.dpreview.com/news/1999/9/7/sony3megapixel
The CYGM filter is far less common than the Bayer filter. CCDs that use it include the 3 megapixel Sony ICX252AK and ICS252AKF (which sampled in October 1999[1]).
Cameras that use it include several Canon models of the 1999-2000 period, such as the Canon PowerShot S10,[2] the original Canon Digital IXUS (June 2000),[3] though subsequent IXUS models used the Bayer filter, and the Canon G1; the Kodak DCS 620x and DCS 720x DSLRs, and several Nikon Coolpix models.[4]
 
Sony introduced the Cybershot DSC-F828  with a RGBE pattern in 2004.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2003/7/15/sonyrgbeccd
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RGBE_filter
 
Fuji has at least two alternate patterns that they have patented, but how much is sales hype and how much is performance related is yet to be seen.  There will be advantages and disadvantages.

Maybe I was too sweeping in my generality, but note I asked why only Fuji is currently pushing a non-bayer pattern as "the next great thing" and the camera magazines seem willing to trumpet it as a new thing also.

The history of pixel designs you describe is all factually correct, but you name old/discontinued/minor/failed cameras, and also patents that have been filed, but not new products with fresh R&D dollars and fresh advertizing dollars behind it.  Other than Fuji (and Foveon in a radically different sense) at this particular moment. What I thought would make for an interesting discussion is whether Canon could take the idea of a simple non-bayer pixel pattern and eliminating the AA filter for a major camera sensor line, (not just for a special limited edition version of an existing camera where they leave the AA filter off).

Is there enough potential to a more complex/more "random" pixel pattern for Canon to make something of it?

244
@Mt. Spokane:
Thanks.  I will look at both methods and see if I can work the extra steps for a couple of years without "cracking" and buying LR4 and maybe a new computer.

@halfrack:
I have an old Core 2 Duo processor, and only 3 GB of RAM, but I upgraded both the video card and the OS within the last year.

Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 3.0 ghz
3 GB Ram
NVidia GeForce GTX 550Ti
Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit

I could buy LR4, and then buy some memory and up this to 4 GB or maybe more for $200 or so IF it would be enough to make a difference.  What do you think?

I'd spend $100 on memory.  Check your emory type, many core 2 duo systems use cheap DDR3 memory.
16GB of DDR3 memory costs less than $100.  If you happen to be stuck with DDR2, you can buy 8GB for about $100.
Memory is cheap.

I do have the DDR2, unfortunately.  I agree with your logic, and I just ordered the maximum (8 gigs).  That will be useful no matter what.
I think I will just suck it up and order the LR4 upgrade now.  If nothing else, my doing so is a surefire way to guarantee Adobe will release LR5 almost immediately!   ;)

245
EOS Bodies / Re: 6D vs 5Diii vs 5Dii - Speedlite AF Focus Beam Assist Tests
« on: December 25, 2012, 12:36:32 AM »
Just an update on the tests. I've done tons more with different speed lites, targets, etc, most of this has been 6D vs D600 type stuff. Ive even recorded video of how I do the tests so you guys can see and I will post the video here when it is done.

I am not seeing any difference between the 600 or 580 Speedlites. I did look into the auto focus settings on the 5Diii, but as another forum reader pointed out, most of it has to do with AI Servo type shots (which doesnt require a focus lock) to take the shot.

I should probably add a note, as I did on the Canon Forum about why I am going back and forth between the 2 differnent targets at different distances; Target 1 serves mainly to defocus. If im just aiming at target 2 and focusing over and over, its not a good measurement of the cameras ability to get that initial focus.
 
Another point is that the average focus times for each shot work out to:
 
5Dii - 1.5s
6D - 1.7s
5Diii- 2.33s
 
But this is not what is happening. The focus lock on Target 1 (in good light) is always very quick, almost instantaneous.
 
Focusing on Target 2 is taking longer than these average times. In fact, most of the time is spent on Target 2.
 
It is hard to be precise, but I would say the times are closer to:
 
5Dii - 2.2s
6D- 2.5s
5Diii - 3 + s

I have a Sekonic 558 Light Meter that seems to be unable to measure the light Im shooting in which would be ideal to know, and am waiting on my new meter - that should help to know exactly at what point it starts to struggle.
 
M

Very interesting and very topical stuff Michael.  A lot of people are very interested to see what you are doing and really appreciate your efforts.

I think the "two targets" idea is very solid thinking.  My only "helpful suggestion" would be to not make one of your 2 focus points be in good light.  I think it basically gives the cameras a big boost to their average focus time in bad light.  I am sure the 5D3 is super fast in good light, but I think the question is how slow is it in bad light?  I would be interested to see the same tests done with two targets, but with both targets being in bad light (none in good light).  I think you would see a much more dramatic difference between the cameras if indeed 5d3 struggles in low light AF while 5d2 (or 6D) would not have.  THAT would make a real statement.

246
@Mt. Spokane:
Thanks.  I will look at both methods and see if I can work the extra steps for a couple of years without "cracking" and buying LR4 and maybe a new computer.

@halfrack:
I have an old Core 2 Duo processor, and only 3 GB of RAM, but I upgraded both the video card and the OS within the last year.

Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 3.0 ghz
3 GB Ram
NVidia GeForce GTX 550Ti
Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit

I could buy LR4, and then buy some memory and up this to 4 GB or maybe more for $200 or so IF it would be enough to make a difference.  What do you think?

247
UPDATE:  I Googled this and read a few things, and I am not especially happy.  Is it correct that Lightroom 3 will NEVER be updated to handle RAW from my new 6D?? 

I don't WANT to update to LR4.  Not only is there the question of the money, but also there is the issue of LR4 being (supposedly) very slow to run on older computers.  Mine is 4 years old, and my plan was to go another 2 years without dropping bucks on a new one.

I also don't really like the sound of using DPP to convert it into some other format (or something) and then exporting it to Lightroom.  How does that work, and would it be lossy on the data?

Any suggestions?  Or any insight into whether LR4 is likely to bog down my computer?

Thanks!

248
Does anyone know when Adobe will begin offering RAW support for 6D on Lightroom 3?  Mine is definitely not working now, and when I go to "look for updates" it says there are none.  This is as of Christmas Eve.

Thanks.

249
Curious.  Was thinking of getting one, and maybe the YN 622C.  Specific comments on the exact matchup, or even comments on any of the specific pieces.  Thanks!

250
Is it me?  How is it that most manufacturers are using the simple Bayer pattern on most of their sensors, and everyone has the same image issues as a result, and everyone band-aids it with the clarity-robbing AA filter. 

There is something almost funny that Fuji is able to "stun the world" by going with a slightly more complex pattern.  It just seems amazing that the others have not jumped on that a long time ago.  It's not like Fuji, or anyone, could patent the whole idea of doing something, anything, other than Bayer.

Sony is mucking around with a 4th color in the RGB, I read.  They and others will be innovating on all elements of the sensor and smaller manufacturing processes.  Could something as simple as "non-Bayer" give Canon an easy lower-tech leg up against competition?   Is that some low-hanging fruit Canon could pick?

Wow... you should start your own company! I'll buy your first two cameras ;)

@Chilly:  Glad you were able to avoid the knee-jerk reaction on that one.  After all, I did ask a question that could, with some effort, be viewed as obliquely questioning Canon, and I was therefore asking for it.

251
EOS Bodies / Re: Possible positive 6D surprise? Should I wait?
« on: December 21, 2012, 02:35:26 AM »
Well, the OP here (me) has ordered a 6D.  It arrives tomorrow.  I had no real need for 61 AF points and multiple movement-type AF settings.  My kids couldn't possibly move that fast or erratically, and I don't care enough about birds and stuff to spend $1,000 bucks on them.  (what have they ever done for me?)
I might still have bought the 5D3 anyway but for the fact it is also perhaps worse at the one thing I know I DO care about, which would be AF and noise in dim light on the center AF point.  I shoot indoors in a lattitude where the winter is fairly long.  See all the posts about "5D3 + AF assist = even slower AF", etc....


252
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« on: December 21, 2012, 02:28:27 AM »
OK.  Breathe.

Yes, that OP was a little over the top, and yes, new cars and new computers (especially) and new clothes depreciate pretty rapidly, especially in 2nd-hand sale.  That is very relevant as a comparison.

But, on the other hand, releasing a model of something at an absurdly high retail price, then almost immediately cutting its retail price dramatically may be an innocent adjustment to your gross miscalculation of market demand (acceptable though dumb) or it could be a kind of "customer un-appreciation" if too extreme, and too pre-planned.  There IS an element of trust involved in a loyal customer buying a new product early from a company, and intentionally hosing that loyal customer would be overly sharp dealing, yes?

253
Not exactly true - Sigma has the Foveon. The SD9, not only had no bayer filter, but no AA filter or MICROLENSES! In theory, this is better, in reality, not so much.

Very true.  I meant to reference Foveon, and then distinguish it by saying it is a lot more complicated an affair than just "randomizing" color receptors.

As I look at the title of my post, I realize I was overbroad and I overgeneralized.  My point was just that the shuffling colors thing seems so easy.  And it probably isn't, and if not, I was wondering if anyone knows why I am looking at this wrong.

254
Lenses / Re: EF 24-70 f/2.8L IS Exists as a Working Prototype [CR2]
« on: December 20, 2012, 08:13:33 PM »
All has yet to be revealed.  Perhaps the last shoe to drop will be the release of a super-premium Canon "L"-branded tripod for $2,500.00. 

People without IS will feel they need one, and many of them would be physically and emotionally unable to resist anything, no matter how pedestrian, that has a prominent red ring on it somewhere.

255
Is it me?  How is it that most manufacturers are using the simple Bayer pattern on most of their sensors, and everyone has the same image issues as a result, and everyone band-aids it with the clarity-robbing AA filter. 

There is something almost funny that Fuji is able to "stun the world" by going with a slightly more complex pattern.  It just seems amazing that the others have not jumped on that a long time ago.  It's not like Fuji, or anyone, could patent the whole idea of doing something, anything, other than Bayer.

Sony is mucking around with a 4th color in the RGB, I read.  They and others will be innovating on all elements of the sensor and smaller manufacturing processes.  Could something as simple as "non-Bayer" give Canon an easy lower-tech leg up against competition?   Is that some low-hanging fruit Canon could pick?

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