Messages

46

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Crazy... go Nikon?

« on: April 02, 2013, 11:09:21 PM »

Aglet, how about you provide us a beautiful RAW file that you spend time, effort, and possibly money to get first? Please do show us the very best d800 RAW file of you very best work and then I promise I will do the same.

It must be your best, no less.

how about something easier, you show us some 100 iso test shots from your 5d2.... if you still have it.
Blank sheet of white paper, exposed at 1 EV values from +4 to -10, no Lum or Chroma NR, black level crusher set to ZERO, pushed in ACR or LR, until visible banding appears at 100%
Show us what EV levels you no longer get FPN.
Do and post that, then I'll do the same with a $400 Nikon.
OK, you go'head and do yours.  We're waiting.

47

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: D800, D800E firmware updates on April 1st - really

« on: April 02, 2013, 01:52:23 PM »

D4, D3S, D3X, D3, D7000 and D3200 firmware updates added as well.

48

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Crazy... go Nikon?

« on: April 02, 2013, 01:51:22 PM »

I was pleasantly surprised by the improved sensor performance from Nikon’s modern crop bodies as well.
I’ve been too often disappointed by my early version 5d2 (which I’m now convinced was a lemon and got rid of) and my also early-production 7D, which I’ve also sold.
I should have returned BOTH of those turkeys to Canon as soon as I discovered the problems. On top of that, my 5d2 did often like to meter rather conservatively, usually under-exposing more than my other Canon bodies, but not consistently.  I hated that thing!  The only time I got consistent and decent results with it was shooting fully manual where lighting wasn’t changing faster than I could keep up to it.  In variable and mixed lighting (incl flash fill) i often got inconsistent and under-exposed results from it.  A major frustration when I could easily get reliable and consistent results from my other Canon bodies in similar conditions.

Since nobody here’s ever offered their 5d2 raw files or shot test samples to compare FPN, all I’ve had to work with were files DL’d from I-R.  Their raw file could be pushed a LOT more than mine could and not show significant FPN.  My 5d2 files would show FPN from shades as high as 3EV below metered zero if those shades were pushed as little as +1EV. This is totally unacceptable from a FF body of that cost.
I don’t think I’m the only one who’s experienced this either.  There seems to be a fair bit of variability in FPN performance within samples of the same model.  One CR poster even commented recently he sent his 1Dx back because of poor FPN performance so even pricey new models are not immune. (not sure if that was low ISO or not tho)

I still prefer the handling, color rendition and WB performance of Canon over the other mfrs.  I still have a handful of Canon crop bodies, newest now being the 60D.  Of the bunch, the 60D is the worst offender for low ISO FPN, but it is much better than my 7D was, but not as good as my late production 40D or even my old Rebels.
I’m still hoping Canon will produce a body with a sensor system that doesn’t have the high read noise problems that afflicts so many of their recent cameras.  The 6D is the best I’ve tried so far but still has some vertical banding visible around 400 iso on the sample I tested.  If the price drops enough, I’ll likely still buy one to try it.  Same with the 7d2 or 70d where I also need the better AF system.
I’m keeping my Best EF glass for another year or so.  If Canon does not produce a camera I can afford, that can provide low ISO with clean shadow areas like the competitors can, i will have held my breath long enough.

49

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Crazy... go Nikon?

« on: April 02, 2013, 01:47:09 PM »

The vast majority of us DO know how to get the most from our gear, even with challenging exposures.
But, as in Ankorwatt’s dappled sunlit image, lifting some dark areas of even a reasonably exposed image will often show FPN.
It comes down to a matter of individual tastes.  I prefer the lightened look of the shadow lifted crop he’s shown.  I prefer slightly less lifted, actually, but even so, that would still be enough to show FPN.

Seems like many others are saying, “NO!  You shouldn’t do that!  It doesn’t look natural.”
To which I reply, “Like HEL_ it doesn’t.”  You need to actually LOOK at the scene you’re shooting, what can you see?  Are you going to represent the final image like you saw it or are you going to capture it within the limitations and compromises of your equipment and technique?

When you shift your gaze around a real-life scene, your eyes are very much a center-weighted-averaging-metered device. (more like between CWA and “partial” in Canon parlance)  If you were standing where he took the shot and were to look at that lady sitting in the shade, your eyes would adjust to provide your brain with a view more like the shadow-lifted example than the silhouetted version.

When I create an image like that, I want someone viewing that image to be able to look around it and see the kind of details they would see if they had been there, not the overly contrasted rendition provided by many cameras/software and seemingly preferred by many voiciferous shooters.  This is especially applicable to large prints, where you’re actually moving your gaze around from one area to another.  It’s not unreasonable to want or expect to see some detail in the darker areas as in Ankorwatt’s example.
Yes, this is a matter of TASTE.  If you like clipped shadows, go ahead and produce them.
I don’t like them, my customers compliment me on what they see when I process and print an image the way _I_ like it.  That’s what matters, the end result. 
As means to that end, i dumped my 5d2 and replaced it with a D800.  Works MUCH better for what I need from it.

So advising on matters of post-processing “taste” is a style argument and does not really address technical shortcomings of the actual hardware.  That’s best left to Canon engineers, we need to spur THEM to do better.

The argument still remains, however, that some cameras do not allow us to produce images that meet some of our tastes in some conditions whereas other cameras ARE capable of doing just that without difficulty or extra work.  This will remain the case until Canon can remedy their read noise problems.  If you shoot Canon and want to lift shadows then you are stuck with optimizing the compromises or other work-arounds.

50

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Does Canon really have a Flagship Stills Camera?

« on: April 02, 2013, 03:58:03 AM »

Does the competition also seem to offer better lenses for the same or less money?

there's give and take between canon and nikon, each have a bit of something the other doesn't, much of it being quite comparable otherwise.
Pentax is certainly weak on modern glass.
MFT/FT is coming along fairly well.

  Do they give you free software to process their RAW images? You need to compare system cost, not just camera cost.

Nikon's free ViewNX processes raw files
Pentax supplies SilkyPix (for free) and can also save DNG files directly as its native raw format on many bodies.

baddaboom

51

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Crazy... go Nikon?

« on: April 02, 2013, 03:48:17 AM »

Now show me a Nikon file that could do this.

HAHA!
That's a lot like, "show me a Canon file that can do this?"
you just moved the sliders the other way.

And SINCE PATTERN NOISE IS NOT AN ISSUE AT THE HIGHLIGHT END, exposing to retain as much hilite detail as possible and BRINGING UP CLEAN SHADOWS is, more often, the desirable approach.
Unless, that is, you're shooting with some bandy PoS camera whose noisy raw files won't allow you to do that w-o required a whole lot of extra time in Photoshop.
(Are you an Adobe sales rep? )

52

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Crazy... go Nikon?

« on: April 02, 2013, 03:39:32 AM »

Kind of like Aglet wanting a camera to automatically level for him!

check out a Pentax K5 

Learn how to expose optimally for the image you want and your equipments capabilities and stop relying on being able to post process the crap out of badly underexposed images when taken with a Canon. Ever notice that nobody ever complains about the highlight recovery of Canon? That is not true if you look at Nikon forums, all Nikon users know you must underexpose to get optimal results, start overexposing your Canon and your "issues" will largely evaporate.

that means, in some cases, ETTR but exposing to not clip highlites and then recurving the rest in post
a technique that works better with most other mfr's cameras that don't begin with "C"

53

Third Party Manufacturers / D800, D800E firmware updates on April 1st - really

« on: April 02, 2013, 02:56:40 AM »

Really, no kidding.
April 01 firmware updates.
Dare we load them? 

Check your country's Nikon site, support, downloads, firmware, DSLR, ....

it's up on Canadian and US sites

D800
http://help.nikon.ca/app/answers/detail/a_id/18258

D800E
http://help.nikon.ca/app/answers/detail/a_id/18263


update affects the following:

• Support for AF-S NIKKOR 800mm f/5.6E FL ED VR added.
• Improved ubject tracking performance in AF-C (continuous-servo autofocus) mode.
• Gamut for Adobe RGB images displayed in the camera's monitor has been changed. Enables more vivid display.
• Resolved always-on exposure preview With live view in [M] (Manual) exposure mode
• Resolved halting of movie recording in some very rare cases when certain memory cards were used, even when the time remaining display indicated remaining recording time.
• Resolved purple line along right edge of image when shooting at an image quality setting of TIFF (RGB) and an image size setting of Small.
• Resolved rare case of images recorded in JPEG format that could not be opened by some software applications.
• Resolved rare cases of shifted colors when shooting with white balance set to a specific color temperature, as with Preset manual or selected color temp.

54

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Just picked up a ligtly used 40D as a back up for my 7D!

« on: April 02, 2013, 02:44:11 AM »

40D, my first DSLR and still my favorite Canon body.
not worth selling, will keep, shoot, and cherish. It's my benchmark crop camera.

55

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Crazy... go Nikon?

« on: April 01, 2013, 01:07:24 PM »

14 stop in a raw histogram?
the motive was enough, from  the sun and down to  the shadows , deep enogue to show pattern noise from the canon.

Dude, you're the only one on this forum that's ever used the word "motive" so everyone one's pretty sure they now know who it is.
image, scene, shot, picture, composition are words that would have helped keep you under cover.
Welcome back, BTW.

56

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Crazy... go Nikon?

« on: April 01, 2013, 02:34:08 AM »

At the very outset I offer my apologies for wading into this rather heated discussion. This is a shot I took with the 6D. Please let me know how a Nikon camera would have helped with this.

I'm just a hobbyist and humble student of photography ... HELP!

I like your shot and glad you got a 6D instead of going the cheap route with a 5d2.
the 6d has improved significantly in areas where some of us cursed the 5d2 as PoS.
the shot, even if it was level in reality (likely not?) would likely appear a little better with some rotation applied to provide a more natural symmetry and sense of vertical balance.
tho many of us are horizonally-challenged despite the best efforts of built in artificial horizons.  I need Pentax's built in auto-level sensor rotation.

57

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Crazy... go Nikon?

« on: March 30, 2013, 02:54:03 AM »

Ahem, my samples have subject matter which you obviously discount. Which none of your sample's have.

I'm not seein' any such merit over mine in these examples, and not that it matters.
The interesting point is they were shot with Canon bodies.  I exposed mine to render the incredible sunset color gradient that evening and yours...
Well, they just sit there.  Artistically boring, but they might make good stock images where that doesn't matter.
Do you think you could have exposed and processed any of them differently to make a more compelling image?
I do, despite the Canon limitations on the sunset shot.

58

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Crazy... go Nikon?

« on: March 30, 2013, 02:40:52 AM »

I don't understand how somebody can claim to not post their best work on their retail website? I fully understand not posting your work in forums, I only post test shots and snaps that illustrate a particular point, but to claim you are better than your retail website sounds a bit of a stretch.

cuz, I have a job, a family, and a life.
I don't have time to push my web site or market myself harder right now
nor spend hours/day here

Really?  But you do have time to argue stupid and meaningless, and unfounded points on a rumors website?  Oh the irony.

Fortunately I don't need 14 stops of DR because for the most part, I know what I'm doing.  Not always, but for the most part.  And to stupidly assign blown/clipped highlights to Canon cameras.  You have time for that too.  If you have trouble with highlights and shadows, they offer photography courses.  I suppose though, those with Nikon cameras don't need photography courses because the sensor allows them to do everything exactly correctly, whereas with Canon you don't have this luxury.  With your busy life though,  you probably wouldn't have time for any of that either.

Good job.

What can I tell you , I feel compelled to teach and recalcitrant students are so challenging.

59

Canon General / Re: Think I need a 12 step program

« on: March 30, 2013, 02:25:27 AM »

Bottom line..... THERE IS NO CURE.

Keep Calm...and Canon On 

and then I found Nikon and was additionally afflected with NAS (Nikon Acquisition Syndrome).  In one year I bought as much as it took me 5 years buying Canon stuff.  I was slow to start....  My Canon 24-70L II will ship once my dealer (B&H) is back to dealing again.

oi... Ditto. 2012 was at least $15k in new Nikon and  a bit of Pentax gear.  Offset by only a few $k return from selling off some Canon bodies that had been annoying me, a couple unused lenses, and less than a $k in print sales.
I'm certainly not cured of anything either but now that I have what I like, I've really slowed down. 2013 is only likely to trade/upgrade one or 2 Nikon bodies and add one more Pentax, 2 if they bring out a FF body.

Sorry Canon, you didn't get one penny from me last year and it's not looking too good this year unless I see a really good sale price on a 6D/kit.  Actually, this year's looking good for me selling off more glass.  Will likely have a net inflow from liquidating inventory.

Oh, and thanks, OP, for starting this thread. (my most enjoyable expenditures in a long time)

60

EOS Bodies / Re: Buy, Wait, or Switch? If Canon's next crop body releases don't improve sensor.

« on: March 29, 2013, 02:04:15 PM »

I went FF with a Nikon D600 and I'm very happy. While Canon can still hold an edge in the pro segment, Nikon offers much more in the enthusiast segment. I experienced that first-hand.

However, I'm still in the market for a fast crop body for my wildlife shooting. I would be happy to buy a Canon body to pair with the 70-300 L or the 100-400 L. However, if Canon keeps going on offering less for more money, I'll switch completely to Nikon. The D7100 is a hell of a camera at a very reasonable price point; the D5200 is even better value for money, and the flip screen is nice for macro shots and a couple other things. I'm also interested in Sony: their 70-400 is a great lens and the traslucent mirror thing allows them to reach 12 fps on the a77.

If you need a good camera now, buy a D5200 or a D7100. You're hardly going to regret it. I'm planning this purchase in around 1 year from now. We'll see how the situation will look like...

+1
ditto Pentax.  Excellent enthusiast cameras, pro-capable certainly, tho a smaller overall ecosystem of accessories.