October 23, 2014, 12:49:44 PM

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Messages - Aglet

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Landscape / Re: Fall colours
« on: September 24, 2014, 01:14:05 AM »
Just for kicks, I'm attaching a photo from years past.  Biked to the top of Castle Craig in CT, US and took out my first digital camera - the Canon G3 to take a shot.  Unfortunately I knew nothing about RAW back then...
Nice shot.
Canon G3 is a great old brick!  Very nice jpgs so little need of raw.  I still have a bunch of old G3/5/6 bodies and occasionally use them still.

EOS Bodies / Re: Just for Jrista: 2014 Market Data
« on: September 24, 2014, 01:08:37 AM »
I'm talking about normalized Raw performance, which has seen very, very small gains. Save for at the highest ISOs (e.g. 25.6k and above), where lowering sensor-level (upstream) read noise actually affects image quality, since you're amplifying the raw signal off the sensor so much (b/c the signal is so, so small).

Otherwise, ISO performance is largely dictated by sensor size these days.

I'd like to throw an orange into this nice comparison of apples.  A nice tasty tangerine of a sensor.

I was curious about comparing Canon's best-to-date crop sensor, the 70D (until we know what the 7d2 can do) so had a look at DxOmark's data on it and compared it to a sensor with 2-thirds the surface area. (OMD EM10)

I thought that the larger surface area and decent hi ISO performance of the 70D might actually have an edge in hi ISO performance.... BUT I WAS WRONG. ;)

The tiny MFT sensor of the Olympus EM10 completely smokes the 70d in SNR at every ISO and every signal level.
So, despite the physics advantages of larger sensors, comparing the performance means you do have to consider the underlying technology used to collect the data from those sensors.

The ~220 sq mm of the MFT sensor outperforms the ~330 sq mm of the Canon 70D at all ISO.

(no wonder I'm enjoying the little snapper! :) )

Now I am really hoping the 7d2 sensor can perform at least as good as my micro-four-thirds sensor.  Then the 7d2's advanced AF system and other benefits will be better appreciated.

Landscape / Re: Fall colours
« on: September 22, 2014, 09:06:32 PM »
out looking for color yesterday...

EOS Bodies / Re: Interview hints to future new Canon mount type
« on: September 21, 2014, 02:47:03 PM »
Some allusion to MFT size sensor there, as well, it seems.
When I consider just how good the IQ is from my Oly EM10's tiny sensor, with just enough ability for OOF areas and DoF control, it seems like the 4/3 system was well conceived for all around compromises.
I can landscape at low ISO with some shadow push ability, use iso25600 and get usable images for small prints, put on a long lens for shallow DoF shooting, all in a tiny light package.
Yup, that sensor size is a good compromise.

You're kidding me!!!  :o
Why not in the US?  :'(

Dunno... we're closer to Santa Claus?..

I'm thinking I get to test drive a 7d2 and 24-70/4 L lens then sell it off for a profit on eBay. :}

The 24-70 will be cheaper than their new standard zoom  :o
AND I get to keep the jacket!  ;)

Don't tell me you're not planning on putting those amazing skins on all your iPhones and iPads.
But seriously, great deal...
HAHA!  No iPhone, no iPad, never will. Hate those things and how iOS works.
Doubt it would fit my 10" Asus tab .

And, pre-order was placed earlier this week so will now wait and see what the 7d2 can do for me.

EOS Bodies / Re: Just for Jrista: 2014 Market Data
« on: September 20, 2014, 04:14:29 PM »
as I was pre-ordering my 7d2 today, (uh-hmmm...  cough..) my LCS guy said pre-orders for the 7d2 vs the d750 were running about 15-to-1.

Oh, so despite all your complaining about Canon sensors you still buy Canon cameras? I guess this is a good demonstration of why Canon does not need to care about the low ISO image quality of their sensors.

Of course! :)
I really liked my 7d, except for the horridly stripey shadow noise which made it a body I could not use for certain high DR scenes where I'd need to push the files in post.  That limited its versatility and meant i had to carry something else to cover that role.
I really enjoyed USING that camera.  I cursed it to hell when I had to push its files in post and I still haven't gone back to rescue some shots I took with it where the shadows are distractingly ugly with FPN.
Previous discussions on this topic have well covered that and, whenever I can make the time to go back and rework those images with some updated NR software, I'll hopefully be able to re-process and make some use of those files.

I've been waiting a LONG time for its replacement.  I dismissed the 70D, despite it being the first Canon cropper since the 40D without nasty low ISO FPN, because I want what the higher performance level the 7D's successor would provide.  However, value-wise, the 70D would likely be my better option over the 7d2 for the limited uses I have for this type of shooting.

I pre-ordered a 7d2 ONLY because I'll be getting a $900+ discount on a lens bundle deal, otherwise I would not bother. 
I've already partially filled this role with an Olympus OMD EM10 + 75-100mm lens.  It's great for the little bit of birding I do, not so good for BiF or other high paced action.  It's high ISO performance is impressive, it's low iso performance is also very good for such a small sensor.  It's small, light, easy to carry and has lots of useful features.

The 7D2 will be a decision point of sorts for me.  If it performs really well for ME, I'll likely keep it and some Canon gear in my kit.  If not, it's likely I will sell off the rest of my Canon inventory (of value) to fund replacements for those functions from other mfrs.  A Canon FF that is high MP and devoid of FPN might make me reconsider some shooting applications (tilt-shift) but i'm already quite satisfied with my current FF Nik gear and expanding in that direction.

As for what Canon thinks, I can't be sure.  But I bet they will slowly, quietly continue to improve their products to reduce and eliminate FPN and they will not publicly state anything about that, or DR, in order to keep that shameful little fact from becoming a mainstream topic to the general camera buying consumer.  Ignorance and non-disclosure is good for profits and marketshare.  They'll just sweep that under the carpet and move on to the next era of products.  Speaking of which, looks like they might be thinking a bit more seriously about mirrorless...


use google translate and make your own best guess at how to interpret that vague japanese lingo

EOS Bodies / Re: Just for Jrista: 2014 Market Data
« on: September 20, 2014, 01:00:13 AM »
as I was pre-ordering my 7d2 today, (uh-hmmm...  cough..) my LCS guy said pre-orders for the 7d2 vs the d750 were running about 15-to-1.
Holy cow!  much more pent up demand hoping for a large improvement over the old 7d than any craving for a new FF Nik body is my interpretation, especially when there's already 2 good options in the 800 and 600 series that many are likely already satisfied with. 
You could spin that as too many FF nik bodies available.. or, quite possibly, a lot of people wanting a better Canon crop body that they will finally get.

EOS Bodies / Re: Sample Images From the EOS 7D Mark II
« on: September 20, 2014, 12:50:32 AM »
We'll have to wait and see what happens with DxO testing and elsewhere to see if there is any banding evident
And I'll say it again - no banding in the 70D, and there'll be no banding in the 7D Mk II.

You just can't stand the idea that these latest Canon croppers are going to change things, can you?

I can pretty much back that up.  When I tested the 70D, it was Canon's least FPN crop body to-date.  I posted that here back then.
I thot about replacing my 60D with it but was pointless since I'd already changed brands and I was at the bad part of the depreciation curve on my 60D so remains in my pile and gets used occasionally.

I'll have to get some proper dark files for my tests on the 7d2 but, from dpreview's samples, it's certainly less likely to have FPN issues like the old picket-fence-7D did.  Altho DPR's 7D files were nowhere near as bad as my 7D's files.

EDIT:  Actually, based on my prelim tests from available raw files, I've actually pre-ordered a 7d2 today.  Got a great bundle deal so could not resist trying it for the total price.  Sometime in November...

You're kidding me!!!  :o
Why not in the US?  :'(

Dunno... we're closer to Santa Claus?..

I'm thinking I get to test drive a 7d2 and 24-70/4 L lens then sell it off for a profit on eBay. :}

The 24-70 will be cheaper than their new standard zoom  :o
AND I get to keep the jacket!  ;)

Lenses / Re: Lens 'resolving power' vs sensors - what's fine these days
« on: September 17, 2014, 02:32:47 AM »
@ JRista

Just updating a couple of your sensor rez data examples.

Present MFT is over 16MP.
E.g.  OMD EM10, 4640x3472 in 17.3x13.0mm sensor = 134.1 lp/mm
The more I use this camera, the more I'm impressed with it!  I can only imagine a FF with pixels like this. (~9650x6450)

A very good lens for the moment is the 75/1.8

that's at 60 and 20 lp/mm

or the Sigma 60mm Art for $210, fantastic, not even considering the price!

Nikon 1 v3/j4 is over 18MP
5248x3502 in 13.2x8.8mm sensor = 198.8 lp/mm

There's some very good glass available, one of them's the cheap 30-110mm kit lens, under $300. (80-270mm FF equiv)
MTF below:

and their 10-30 kit lens:

Oh, ya, and the Pentax Q7 is a mere
4000 x 3000 on a 7.4 x 5.6mm sensor = ~270 lp/mm
I've got one of these things too; can't say I've got a lens that can keep up to it tho, altho the 8.5mm f/1.8 prime is decent.
The only thing reducing the quality of the images from these little camera systems is the per-pixel noise as their full-well counts are so low that shot noise is an issue much sooner than with larger sensors.

Edit: tired fingers and brain. at least one type fixed

You're kidding me!!!  :o
Why not in the US?  :'(

Dunno... we're closer to Santa Claus?..

I'm thinking I get to test drive a 7d2 and 24-70/4 L lens then sell it off for a profit on eBay. :}

EOS Bodies / Re: How can we improve on 5D3 to 5D4?
« on: September 17, 2014, 01:39:26 AM »
So... I'm just wondering how many here realize that the D810, D800, and D750 already have every single one of those features...
Perhaps just the few of us who've actually made the switch and learned what features our new toys, uhm, tools possess.
Frankly, many of those cool features I rarely have use for.  I merely moved to get much improved raw files for landscape work.
I do want to borrow a buddy's 150-600mm Tamron and try the D800's AF tracking for BiF shots.
I don't care if I don't have a high frame rate, just good focus.

And we all know Samsung has a huge selection of state of the art pro optics to mount on their Uber Camera....right?

Oh.......they don't?

uhmmm... give them a year or so.
They can move pretty quick when motivated and they'll likely want to put something out to attach to this new body.

EOS Bodies / Re: Official: Canon EOS 7D Mark II
« on: September 16, 2014, 09:34:20 PM »
Taking a hurried peak at a 7D2 RAW file, it seems like the gain vertical banding issue of the 7D may be entirely gone. Only took a very harried look though. It's hard to tell because the 7D2 has such a small black outer frame area in the RAW and I didn't have the program to check for the gain type in the mids and brights but it seems like it might be gone, none of the shots are close to lens cap shots, but there is a chance they got rid of all or nearly all of the offset banding at low ISO all together. So that is the very good and impressive news with possible both the 7D's weird vertical gain banding and the typical Canon offset dark shadow banding very low or gone, maybe.

The bad is that the random read noise still shows no improvements since 2007 whatsoever, as far as I can tell. It seems like it will be extremely close to the exact same DR as the 7D. The read noise might even be a touch higher than on the 7D. Not quite sure yet, didn't locate quite the proper 7D file or my old numbers. Without the banding, the effective usable DR should be higher though even though it seems like the engineering measured DR might be anywhere from a bit worse than the 7D to a trace better.

Holy cow, we're hoping!
at least we can deal with random-ish noise

This might be the first Canon crop body to break 70 on DxOmark score.

EDIT:  tho as a counterpoint, I've just been somewhat impressed with the tiny pixels in my Oly EM10 at iso 25600... score 72

Having seen the massive lenses produced for mirrorless cameras, I am beginning to question the whole point of trying to keep cameras small. This is particularly true when it comes to mirrorless cameras with crop sensors.

Olympus 40-150 f/2.8, Sony 70-200 f/4 OSS (for FE mount), Fujifilm 50-140 f/2.8, Samsung 50-150 f/2.8, Samsung 300 f/2.8 come to mind.

because if you want small lenses, they are available, and they're small.
Can't beat physics tho, bigger lenses do what only bigger lenses can do, with commensurate IQ results.

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