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Messages - Aglet

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EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Better Dynamic Range in a Camera
« on: February 18, 2013, 12:23:44 PM »
Improving DR to 20 stops, in a camera that would sell to the public, is still not there yet.

DR and resolution are somewhat mutually exclusive altho recent advances in per-pixel performance are making measurable improvements.  e.g.  Toshiba-made sensor in D5200 has 24MP vs the 16MP in the D5100 and yet the d5200 is showing the same DR, per-pixel, as the d5100.

if the resolution had not increased by 50%, the DR could possibly have increased by 50% instead.

Since this type of sensor is already way ahead in the DR spec, the mfr has the option of increasing resolution while maintaining class-leading DR.  And more MP printed on the box is a great marketing tool.

And yes, for artistic reasons, it's always better to have more of everything captured so that you can later choose how you want to present it by altering it to your tastes.

So for now, if you want to capture the most DR, use the best tool for the job and then you still have the option of exposure bracketing and stacking those images in software, whenever that's a viable option.
I personally don't care to stack bracketed exposures.  I find i can get a photo-realistic HDR-toned image with a single shot from a very clean camera (like most current Nikon or Pentax bodies) with lots of DR.  Just expose to maintain the hilite levels you want to keep and then recurve everything below it to your tastes, if that's your thing.
Some photographers really do not seem to like presenting images like this so it can be a point of strong contention.

How much?

est 3000 Euro at intro so that's about what in US/Cdn $ now?... $4000?...
big-time hurt on the wallet for a fast 50!
but it sure looks like a good performing fast 50
I was pretty happy with my EF 50mm /1.4 USM on FF...  diminishing returns for exponentially more outlay is not in my comfort zone unless I were to go back to makin' a living with a camera.  It would have to be a darn good living...

Just watched the video, posted February 15th, where the high performance of this new lens is designed to not only meet the sensor abilities of cameras like the D800 for resolution, but also to provide very high sharpness and contrast, corner-to-corner, wide open.  Some of the printed test comparisons they show are VERY impressive.
Wish I could justify one of these! 
Addendum:  Expected price at launch is 3000 Euro.


Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Nikon d7100 might be annonced next week
« on: February 15, 2013, 05:11:59 PM »
I am curious to see what these crop bodies will be packing, it will give some indication to what we can expect in a 7d/d300(s) successor
ditto. I'm hoping a 7d2 will arrive this summer as I already dumped my 7d for IQ reasons.  Miss the speed and AF and I don't have the long glass for Nikon that I do for Canon otherwise I'd try that next new Nikon whatever semi-pro crop-body.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5D III Dynamic Range
« on: February 14, 2013, 04:08:21 PM »
insanitybeard:  thank-you too, for recognizing what my topic is about, even if I did misplace it in this thread.  It’s gonna happen somewhere.  Kinda like (insert great historical battle of your choice).

hjulenissen: thank you for stating your understanding of the topic
be careful you don’t fall under attack for providing a supporting point of view to mine around here. :)

beyond criticism and fair debate, the most vocal opponents I have in this argument repeatedly show themselves to be condescending, hypocrites, and even insulting.  Add to that, unwilling or unable to back up their viewpoint with appropriate and valid samples, as outlined at least 6 pages ago.  Yet they demand my samples and I oblige.

All this, when all I’m asking for is samples from their 5d2, if they have one, so I could make a simple comparison to the one I had.  Doesn’t sound like such an onerous request, considering the amount of effort they expend hurling invective, nonsense and unrequested advice on this thread. (some of occasionally even invalid)

It would be hilarious if it were a comedy sketch.. if you like the 3+ Stooges taking on the lone voice standing up for logic and reason.

JR: I did not say 5d2 was useless, I said it’s usefullness was LIMITED.
Go back and read it.

ishdakuteb:  posts his latest idol of the day.  I don’t care who you want to emulate.
Do you have a 5d2?

alexanderferdinand:  finally, somewhat useful contribution, this person’s had no problems with his 5d2.  i don’t know how he uses his files but he’s happy with it.  OK by me.

bdunbar79:  happy w his 5d2, proudly credits his own skill. Another one that’s fine w me.  But no 5d2 samples from him here either, plenty of 5d3 and 1dx as he learns their quirks.

trumpetpower:  expending yet more effort providing a useless comparison wasting his time, upsetting himself in the process.
Dude, if you'd have actually shot the actual exposure series, with a 5d2 instead of creating a fake in photoshop, you'd have something close to a valid contribution.
And how do you think I came to this if I did not actually shoot the series with my 5d2 when i had it.  go back to (is it still on?) page 6 and re-read it.

but still no 5d2 samples for me to compare.. from anyone?...

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5D III Dynamic Range
« on: February 14, 2013, 12:53:13 PM »
nobody's asked to recover 5 stops in this thread.

Actually, you have (and did so again right here), but never mind.

I found my camera would show FPN with less than TWO stops of push on shades as high as -3EV to start with, even worse on a -5EV shade pushed 2 stops.

So, you underexposed your shot by three stops, and you're upset that you weren't able to push your Zone II detail-less shadows to midtones. And then you underexposed another shot by five stops, and you're upset that you weren't able to push your maximum-density clear-negatives pure blacks  to light shadows rich in detail.

Sorry, but I ain't got nothin' for ya, except to suggest that you really should take an introduction to photography class.

Here's another hint: if your scene has large dark expanses of areas with little detail, you really shouldn't be trying to lighten those areas. Indeed, those are perfect candidates for crushing them to near-black to enhance the image's overall contrast. Trying to lighten them is going in the exact worng direction.


A -3EV from metered zero is still pretty darn gray.
The point is, my 5d2 still produced FPN visible at this high a level if pushed one mere stop.
I don’t need lessons from people on how to expose properly, thanks anyway for offering.
I’m merely pointing out my 5d2 was so affected by FPN that something even just below midtones showed banding.  At times it also showed visible banding artefacts in upper midtones rigth out of the camera! That is pathetic performance for a body that cost me nearly $3k when it came out!
i have used 8 bit PnSs that produced cleaner shades at those levels.

The inherrently high levels of FPN of my 5d2 made it useless if I wanted to do any work in post where I had to affect + exposure adjustments or localized/micro-contrast enhancements even at midtones.

If you haven't experienced this, (first, you don't have a 5d2) then you're not exactly pushing the boundaries of your equipment, are you?  A better tool is not sought by those content with what they have.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5D III Dynamic Range
« on: February 14, 2013, 12:48:12 PM »
I posted a shot that I had recovered over 6 stops with a camera with the SAME SENSOR as the 5D MkII..
There’s more to a camera’s IQ than it’s sensor, one of the reasons 1-series cost so much more.
comparing 1ds3 to 5d2 is like comparing a PnS to a rebel.

I appreciate the effort you’re expending but.. If you have a 5d2, pony-up.
otherwise there’s nothing I can learn from you.

And again, I’m not discussing DR, I’m discussing FPN.
FWIW, I’d consider buying the 6D, even tho it has about the same rated DR, because it has much lower FPN than the 5d2.  Please understand the difference in noise structures and how they can affect efforts in post.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5D III Dynamic Range
« on: February 14, 2013, 12:42:44 PM »
I don't shoot test charts like youself, but I will post these.
you otta, you can learn a lot from doing so which can spare you from some surprises later.  Wish I'd have shot the heck out of test charts w my 5d2 when I first got it, would not have been so disappointed if I'd have returned/sold it.

I don’t like the first shot at all, about 40% of the image is deliberately crushed to black, complete RGB=000, a style I’ve seen you use too often for my tastes.  I’d have preferred to see a hint of texture in the t-shirt and collar at least.  but if that’s what you and your subject are happy with, so be it.

2nd shot is good, i like it and it doesn’t have to be crushed like 1st eg to look good.

3rd is enjoyable and, if I remember the last time you posted that, didn’t you say it was heavily pushed from your 7D?..  I don’t remember seeing the original or any 100% crops so we can tell if there’s any FPN tho it looks adequate for printing a 5x7 to 8x10 at least.

4th doesn’t do anything for me altho if I happened upon such a scene I’d likely have shot it similarly.
Now please, indulge me in your d800 art aglet.
look at my profile, posts, attachments - dsc prefixes are definitely Nikon, as are likely some others with file numbers < 1000.
But posted here is not necessarily my art, but educational examples, some w artistic merit.

But you will not DARE to wade into this croc’-pond with some specific test shots requests, will you?
Bummer, i was hoping to compare how bad my 5d2’s FPN was to others’ 5d2s.
Educational opportunities here seem mostly afforded only by the brave.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5D III Dynamic Range
« on: February 14, 2013, 01:34:21 AM »
..only because you can't recover 5 stops or that you get FPN when you do try to recover 5 stops. Does it may a discernible difference to your images which are correctly exposed? Do your clients notice the FPN? or rather ... do your clients ask you to recover the image 5 stops? GEEZ

One wonders why they are sticking to Canon at all, if the cameras sensors were really "useless" as alleged.

nobody's asked to recover 5 stops in this thread.
I found my camera would show FPN with less than TWO stops of push on shades as high as -3EV to start with, even worse on a -5EV shade pushed 2 stops.
I'd like to see someone who has a 5d2 post some samples, as I described back on (now) pg 7 I think.

I've kept my older Canon bodies that perform well.  I've tossed mt 5d2 and 7D, they both had horrendous FPN.  Sort of miss the AF and fps of the latter but not the low iso IQ of either.
Nikon and Pentax are satisfying those low IQ requirements very nicely now.  And their hi iso is PDG too.
I have neither time or patience to work around the limitations of an inferior tool like the 5d2, much as i otherwise liked it and other Canon kit.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5D III Dynamic Range
« on: February 14, 2013, 01:07:36 AM »
Don't blame the tools for poor craftsmanship. Infact, since the d800 is doing so well for you, let's see some photos you've taken with it. Please do post.

I've posted heavily adjusted d800 shots on here last year.  They're awesome.
Can't do that with a 5d2!! no bloody way at all
I could tell you where to look  ...  but...

Let's see you post something from your fabulous 5d2... Like some of those test shots I requested.

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Takumars, Anyone?
« on: February 13, 2013, 01:17:00 AM »
LOVE 'EM! :)
Just started playing with a small variety of old primes and a couple zooms in M42 on a crop body so no mirror-strike worries.
the super smooth feel, and every one has an interesting character that will lend itself to certain kinds of shots.
prices are rising tho, as everyone hops on board the oldies train.

favorite so far is also the SMC 50/1.8 but looking forward to trying a Mamiya that's still on its way to me.
Haven't take the Helios 44-2 outside yet.
Was quite surprised to see just how well the old SMC performs, very sharp, good contrast characteristics and nice bokeh.  I wonder if new Pentax glass performs as well?

throw in the stabilization and much lower price this lens is certainly worth considering if you don't have the budget for Canon's latest or the Nikon.
It also beats Canon's f/4 offering at a similar price point.


Anyone been using it?  How is it working for you.. subjectively?
Other than it's less-consistent across-the-range performance and likely less rugged build than the Canon, I don't see much for drawbacks to the Tamron for shooters who don't need best-in-class gear in this range.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5D III Dynamic Range
« on: February 12, 2013, 07:30:24 PM »
Aglet, why u no Nikon already? My take after eating my popcorn.

Aglet - There is FPN on 5D2 files.

General response - Don't lift the shadows +3 stops. 5D2 is a fantastic camera.

Aglet - Here is a file that shows the FPN.

General Response - Don't lift the shadows +3 stops. 5D2 is a fantastic camera.

Aglet - Well Prove me wrong! supply me photos!

General Response - Here's some photos. Don't lift the shadows +3 stops. 5D2 is a fantastic camera.

Aglet - >:( That doesn't mean nothing!

Rlphoto - :| Pass the popcorn.
Actually, my FF gear is now Nikon, but that's not the point either. :)
FPN on my 5d2 showed up at less than a 2-stop push applied to levels that should have been high enough to not exhibit a problem (e.g. -3 EV down from metered)

Repeating for (who's keeping track of how many times now?)
If anyone of you 5d2-lovers actually HAS one, and are brave enough to show, or at least TELL, us how it performs in simple tests, as outlined a pg or 2 back, then please do so. (RL?...)
I'd like to compare it to mine, which might have been a bit of a lemon in the FPN area.
If you're willing to post a sample of a pushed raw file, kindly include a full res crop so we can see pixel-per-pixel, not scaled down so small as to obliterate FPN in the averaging.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5D III Dynamic Range
« on: February 12, 2013, 07:19:40 PM »
So, I give you a nighttime shot with a classic 5D with a very wide dynamic range and shadows lifted at least a couple, maybe a few stops (I honestly don't remember)...and that's not enough to tell you what you need to know?

why the heck would I want to use your 5dc to compare to my 5d2?!?
only thing they've got in common is the "5" and a tripod mount!
You telling me you'd ask for samples of my 5d2 file and would be satisfied if I gave you a 5dc instead?!?
who's got the fundamental understanding problem here?
I've got a dozen other bodies I can compare it to, I'm asking for 5D2 samples, as outlined.
You really are not good at following instructions.  ::)

What, do you think the 5DII has worse noise than the classic?
don't know, don't care about 5dc

Do you only shoot grey cards and not actual photographs? Have you ever actually wanted to lift shadows more than the extreme amount I did in that shot?
re-read your own reply before you post it - edit, re-read, edit, re-read... go have some popcorn

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