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Messages - clicstudio

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136
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS-1D X Manual Posted
« on: June 12, 2012, 03:37:12 PM »
Page.120.

The one thing that dissapoints me with the 1DX is the buffer size and the number of RAW frames possible to store during a high burst.
The 35 frames takes only 3seconds, 3 !!!!! to fill the buffer..

Anyway, there seem to be something strange going on, since shooting m-RAW mode actually decreases the number of possible burts
 shots to 26, while shooting s-RAW mode increases the number to 39. I understand it takes some computing time to resize the RAW, but this will also happen while downsizine to s-RAW. Hence it is strange that the number of frames possible during m-RAW is "only" 26,
which is a ridicilously small number which you will reach within 1.5sec !!  Why could not Canon install a 3 x bigger buffer when the rest
of the camera is built for speed?? (shutter/cpu).  The D4 can shoot up to 3 times more frames than the 1DX.

I have tested the 1DX with the fastest memory card currently available on the planet (Lexar 128G 1000x Pro UDMA7 150/150MBps),
and the buffer was still full after 35frames continious shooting.

Too bad Canon!! :(

That seems to conflict with this report:

http://www.ronmartblog.com/2011/10/hands-on-canon-eos-1d-x-lots-of-photos.html

Quote
When I read about the 12fps performance of this camera I was excited – especially given the larger image size – but I was also worried as my 10fps performance of the 1D Mark III & IV has always been significantly limited by its puny buffer. In my early testing with what I was told was a slow CF card, I was able to get 52 full-size RAW frames in burst mode before the buffer started to stutter. That’s up from 30 in the 1D Mark IV, so that’s promising given the significantly larger file sizes. However, I would have really loved to have seen that number closer to 100 for RAW. RAM is pretty cheap, so I’m always frustrated there isn’t a way to add RAM or do something to overcome this limitation. With that gripe aside, the 52 RAW frames is going to be usable enough in most practical scenarios so this is a welcome relief. This also means that sRAW or JPEG only shooters will find themselves with an endless supply of buffer for sports shooting.

Indeed, and check Ole Salomonsen comments back then in that thread!!! (which he (Ron) called BS!! )

I re-read those comments to get a refresh on that, but dug further to some reliable sources.  When you tested the 1Dx, where and when did you get to test it?

Here's what I'm finding odd on your comments:

1) the 1Dx manual states in RAW the burst is 35 images with a regular card and 38 with a UDMA 7 card.  If the data xfer rate of 167MB/sec (max) for UMDA7 is supported, as stated in the specifications for the 1Dx, then I would expect that Ron's numbers of approx 50-55 RAW images to be about right.  Your statements would have you believe that zero data made it out of the Lexar UDMA7 card, something not possible.

2) I know from experience with my 5D3, I can shoot approx 19-20 RAW images at 6 fps on a SanDisk Extreme Pro 32GB UDMA6 card before the buffer stutters.  The 5D3 manual states it's RAW burst is 13 images, 18 when using UDMA7.  I have not used a UDMA7 card in the 5D3 yet but would expect a little better performance than I have observed.

3) The D4 numbers you claim are highly questionable given reliable testing.  For example, they totally conflict with Rob Galbraith's documented testing.  That testing shows in a 30 second period the D4 using a Lexar 1000x 32GB UDMA7 was able to write 86 RAW+Jpeg images, with a max RAW data rate of 61.4MB/s.  In the same testing with the same card on the 5D3, it could write 75 RAW+Jpeg images with a max RAW data rate of 80.2MB/s .

So, given documented testing by a known method and source of information that is also well know for his like of Nikon, the 5D3 is out performing the RAW xfer rate of the D4 by about 19MB/sec on the same card.  I seriously doubt the 1Dx would be slower than the 5D3.  In combined RAW+Jpeg, the D4 manages just 11 images more than the 5D3 in 30 seconds of shooting despite the 5D3's RAW+L-Jpeg rated burst capacity of 7 images.

This does not agree with your claims of the 1Dx or the D4's image rates and burst capacity.  The D4 is barely outperforming RAW+Jpeg compared to the 5D3.  So, can you tell us when you tested the 1Dx, where and when did you get to test it with the Lexar 1000x card?

Further, if anyone is wondering why M-RAWand S-RAW numbers seem odd, it because M-RAW is a 10M image which requires more processing (size reduction to a non-multiple of the RAW and processing to handle that).  S-RAW you will note is exactly 1/4 of the original RAW (4.5M vs. 18M), so the math is far simpler, thus the greater burst ability.

D4 Performance:

http://robgalbraith.com/bins/camera_wb_multi_page.asp?cid=6007-12444

5D3 Performance:

http://robgalbraith.com/bins/camera_wb_multi_page.asp?cid=6007-12452&sort_col=raw&sort_dir=DESC

Additional hands on that do not agree with the D4 statements by the poster:

http://www.slashgear.com/nikon-d4-vs-canon-1d-x-burst-depth-continue-shutter-hands-on-videos-13209249/

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-d4/nikon-d4A6.HTM

http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-cameras/nikon-d4-body-only/4505-6501_7-35117818.html

People will get excited about a 12fps camera like I got excited when I got my 1D IV. But the only way my camera can do 10fps is in one-shot focusing. Put the camera in AI servo and there is no way the camera will focus quickly enough to maintain 10fps... Specially if the subject is running towards you... Even with 10 processors, the AF system needs time to accurately focus. You can tell the camera to shoot anyway, but who cares for an out of focus image anyway...
I hope the new AF system on the 1D X will be able to "keep up" with the camera's fps...

137
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS-1D X Manual Posted
« on: June 12, 2012, 03:30:21 PM »
Excuse my ignorance but can someone explain in plain english why the camera can't focus at F8.0?
I have a 24-70 2.8L and use F8 all the time... I find it to be the best, sharpest and most natural F-stop for studio work...
Please someone tell me if that is going to affect me or not.  :-\

Cheers

Pat

All lenses focus at their maximum aperature. You're lens has a max of 2.8, therefore the autofocus will work splendidly. The camera doesn't close down the aperature until you hit the shutter button (or the dof preview). As long as you don't use teleconverters you should never run into a situation where AF does not work. I would venture to say if you don't know this stuff then you probably shouldn't be getting a 1DX anyway.

I don't think that knowledge excludes anyone from owning a 1DX or any body for that matter.  The poster who asked this question is a pro and shoots very fine photographs.  If you've never had to run into this situation, ie you don't use teleconverters, then it matters none that you wouldn't know this.
Than for your comment. I am really disappointed at these forums. Mostly everybody is acting defensively or aggressively... You can't ask a valid question without getting a dumb answer in return.
I am getting tired of this. We should all learn from each other... That's what this is about.

138
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS-1D X Manual Posted
« on: June 12, 2012, 03:27:44 PM »
Excuse my ignorance but can someone explain in plain english why the camera can't focus at F8.0?
I have a 24-70 2.8L and use F8 all the time... I find it to be the best, sharpest and most natural F-stop for studio work...
Please someone tell me if that is going to affect me or not.  :-\

Cheers

Pat

All lenses focus at their maximum aperature. You're lens has a max of 2.8, therefore the autofocus will work splendidly. The camera doesn't close down the aperature until you hit the shutter button (or the dof preview). As long as you don't use teleconverters you should never run into a situation where AF does not work. I would venture to say if you don't know this stuff then you probably shouldn't be getting a 1DX anyway.
I've been shooting pro for 9 year but I never owned a 300mm or 400mm or any lens that needs a teleconverter.
I only own ONE lens (24-70 F2.8L) and that is all I need. I don't do sports or birds or need telephoto lenses.
I don't know about this F8.0 phenomenon because it has never been an issue for me.
But I really don't like your comment. I can get any camera I want and it doesn't make me less of a Pro not knowing all this technical stuff... On the contrary, you are either creative or not. You are born with it. I never took classes or studied any photography and I make a ton of money doing what I love.
If you had to learn it, then you didn't have it... I only use the things and features I need in a camera and I've been using 1D's since 2003 so the obvious upgrade from my current 1D IV is the 1D X...

139
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS-1D X Manual Posted
« on: June 12, 2012, 11:54:55 AM »
Excuse my ignorance but can someone explain in plain english why the camera can't focus at F8.0?
I have a 24-70 2.8L and use F8 all the time... I find it to be the best, sharpest and most natural F-stop for studio work...
Please someone tell me if that is going to affect me or not.  :-\

Cheers

Pat

140
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS-1D X Manual Posted
« on: June 12, 2012, 11:51:23 AM »
This has been a serious disaster for Canon..PR I mean. I am can CPS member and I am so locked in with tons of Canon lens. Even then I am seriously thinking of switching. I browsed today for D4 ..but couldn't find that one either.

Hold on man! I am feeling the same way but wouldn't jump ship!  :o
Just a few more weeks for total camera bliss!
Can't wait!

141
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Wanna see video of continuous focusing
« on: June 11, 2012, 08:15:37 AM »
I would like to see a video of the continuous focusing. Coupled to the articulating touch screen and a digic 5 processor, this Camera seems like a winner and a very inexpensive one, in fact.
:)

142
You're trying to make it sound like you wrote your initial post to assist everyone, but I'm afraid that your tone made it come across like you were gloating at everyone who can't afford a 1D X...  Rather than act defensive now, I'd suggest that you are a little bit more careful not to cause unnecessary offense in future. 

Horses for courses. I found the OP interesting and value the trouble he went to to overlay the controls of the 5D3 & the 1DX to illustrate his points. It was a well presented description coming out of direct experience.

If it's pushing buttons for you, try sidestepping the emotion for a moment and see that he's offering a personal viewpoint that is 100% valid for him and plenty of others, but just may not mesh with everyone's position.  And that's OK!

PW
Thank you PW. Finally someone sees my point. I spent time putting the "presentation" together. I don't even own a 5D III. It started with my friend complaining the joystick was off too low. I picked it up and instantly felt he was right...
People are getting defensive thinking I am bashing the 5D. I am just complaining that Canon is making design mistakes.

143
Doing sports/action based photography, I can't see how anyone could manage to lug around a huge 1-series plus its lens all day without having serious back problems. I gave up the 1DII for the 7D, never looked back... The grip comes in handy sometimes, but usually it just makes the damn thing too big. 

Hmmm, maybe. I guess all those Canon shooters at elite sports events shooting with Mk4 & Mk3 bodies must be missing something. Expect 7D sales to surge.

PW
Right on!

144
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm still trying to figure out the POINT of the OP's post here?  Looking for a reaction, what?  I'm lost.
Not looking for a reaction. Just trying to show how even Canon can make mistakes. Ergonomics are as important in a camera as its photographic qualities.

145
...I am a professional photographer and I expect something professional...
...it has flaws that I can touch and feel as a professional photographer who, maybe, is used to expecting more...
...I am just sharing my opinion as a 12 year professional...
To seemingly assume - in a camera forum of all places - that you're the only one here who has used a camera in a professional context is incredibly naive.

I've been using Canon EOS bodies continuously since the mid-90s (starting with the EOS 500), and I've never felt like any one of them has had bad ergonomics.  It always take time to adjust to the feel of a new body, but really it's not that difficult (and it's advantageous to be flexible as a professional).  For a creature of habit like yourself, the fact that the 1-series cameras haven't changed much in button placement over the years mean that it's the perfect solution for YOU.  It's all about muscle memory.  But obviously the built-in grip of the 1D cameras is going to be better than the bolt-on type, as I said in my earlier post - not just for ergonomics, but for build quality and weather proofing as well.

I have absolutely no doubt that you will LOVE your 1DX.  I love the 1-series bodies - in fact I could have bought any of the currently available 1Ds instead of the 5D3 - but I'm very satisfied with my decision.  There are just some places you can't go with a giant camera body unless you have a press pass...
I don't have a press pass... I shoot 70% at the studio and 30% outdoors. And 90% of the time I shoot in portrait.
Like I said before, try shooting portrait for 3 hours straight with ANY grip-less camera... Your bent wrist, your arm over the camera, your strained fingers and no support from your body... Come on! Whoever says a grip is not necessary doesn't shoot enough or doesn't want to admit it... Try putting a Canon 600 EX-RT on a grip less camera... There is NO WAY you can hold the weight of the camera without hurting yourself... Even a 70-200 2.8. Hand Held Cameras simply don't have enough support without the grip... And that is a fact...
I am not criticizing the 5D... Like I said before, it's the best camera in the market (until the 1DX comes out, of course ;)) Just pointing out the bad ergonomics of the buttons on the grip, ONLY, on the grip.

146

I am not judging the camera, just the grip. The camera is by far the best on the market, for now, but the ergonomics are part of the daily use. If you shot 1000 photos a day, like I do, you would understand. Amateurs won't see it anyway...
My apologies for my sarcasm...

What makes you think an amateur wont see it anyway? Why the put down of the amateur by a pro - the difference between a pro and an amateur is that the amateur does it for fun, the pro for money. Bad ergonomics would stop it being fun.

I shoot mostly in portrait and the ergonomics of the 1D are key to me.

Also, just because a pro gets paid, that doesn't automatically make them good. ;)
Look at my website... I assure you nobody has more fun shooting than I do... And I get paid too...

147

I am not judging the camera, just the grip. The camera is by far the best on the market, for now, but the ergonomics are part of the daily use. If you shot 1000 photos a day, like I do, you would understand. Amateurs won't see it anyway...
My apologies for my sarcasm...

What makes you think an amateur wont see it anyway? Why the put down of the amateur by a pro - the difference between a pro and an amateur is that the amateur does it for fun, the pro for money. Bad ergonomics would stop it being fun.

I shoot mostly in portrait and the ergonomics of the 1D are key to me.
I shoot girls only. 90% of the time I shoot portrait. Try shooting portrait with a grip-less camera and you will get  carpal tunnel in 5 minutes. Not to mention, without a grip, the whole weight of the camera is resting on your bent wrist, like a crane. Position of your wrist is very important. A relaxed wrist will let you work better and longer...
The grip gives you more natural support and a better, well, "grip" on the camera...
 ::)

148
The original post on this thread is extremely valid - ergonomics is extremely important (why I personally choose Canon over Nikon).

I shoot with the 7D + grip and yesterday I tried a 5D2 without (even though it is slightly wider), the 7D feels more natural to hold, especially with one hand when not in use.

Seeing as new DSLR prices are so high, particularly the new accessories such as the BG-11 grip for the 5D3, why don't canon offer both 'tall' body (integrated grip) and 'regular' body options on all xD cameras? Obviously they could charge a premium, say +$500 for a tall 5D3, over a regular short body. After all, the interior tech is the same, just more magnesium alloy + weather seals. It would also kill off 3rd party 'knock-off' grip vendors.
I thought the same... The brains can stay the same. Just add the extension... I would consider a 5D III as a backup camera if that was the case...
Cheers


149
I agree with Smithy.  You've been using the ID for how many years and you say it's better than a camera that you've used for how long?  Oh, that's right "playing with it for a while" and you decided to share your wisdom.  My apologies for my sarcasm.

I am not judging the camera, just the grip. The camera is by far the best on the market, for now, but the ergonomics are part of the daily use. If you shot 1000 photos a day, like I do, you would understand. Amateurs won't see it anyway...
My apologies for my sarcasm...

150
I think it's going too far to say that the 5D has "bad ergonomics".  I find it immensely comfortable to use, with the only 'why did they do that' button placement being the playback zoom buttons.  Yes, perhaps the 1Ds have better ergonomics - and I certainly prefer the integrated grip look rather than the 'bolt-on' type - but mostly it seems like you have particular preferences that are determined by the size of your hands or simply habit.
No, I am not going too far. I am a professional photographer and I expect something professional or at least pro-sumer like a 5D to be better...
There is always a pyramid of quality in most products. Be it cameras, electronics, cars, etc...
The 1D's are the flagships. I can't expect a $3500 camera to look and feel as one that costs double but at least, the designers should take the time to position the buttons correctly. It doesn't cost them anything.
There are plenty of design flaws in most products in the market. I am not saying the 5D is a bad camera, just saying it has flaws that I can touch and feel as a professional photographer who, maybe, is used to expecting more...
It seems all of you 5D users fail to see the reality and can't accept the truth.
I rented a 5D III for a whole week without a grip to see if I liked it. I was extremely happy with the quality of the camera... Build, photo quality, noise levels, focusing speed, screen... The best camera in the market so far, but this grip is just not right... It took me 5 seconds to realize there is something wrong with it. 
I am just sharing my opinion as a 12 year professional...
If you guys don't want to see it, it's not my problem cause I will never own a 5D III...
Cheers

P

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