March 06, 2015, 05:04:19 PM

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - 3kramd5

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 40
31
EOS Bodies / Re: After a 50MP camera what is the next breakthrough?
« on: February 11, 2015, 01:56:44 PM »

Focusing the viewer. The eye is naturally drawn to bright elements in a picture, so too much DR is not perhaps always a good thing. Having elements of the picture without too much detail means the eye ignores it and focuses on where you want them to....

In most images we view, we only see 5-10 stops (depending on medium). If you have 20 in the bag, you can creatively choose which to display. Start with more to end with less, since the opposite isn't possible.

32
EOS Bodies / Re: DR from 5Ds will be 2 stop better then 7D mk II
« on: February 11, 2015, 01:14:25 PM »
On the topic of Dynamic Range --

If it does turn out that the 5DS has higher dynamic range - then this will be a major blow to the forum-reputation of all the sensor experts in here who have completely committed themselves to the claim the 5DS will not have higher dynamic range via their dozens of long technical essay posts. They will be completely discredited if the results show higher DR.
[snip]

Uh, naw. People are making predictions based on... well, no real technical data. Really, it's little more than marginally-informed guessing, and guessing wrong is no more shameful than guessing right is laudable.

33
EOS Bodies / Re: DR from 5Ds will be 2 stop better then 7D mk II
« on: February 10, 2015, 09:14:51 PM »

I still think people are mincing words here. The 5D III does not have 14 stops of DR. The 5D III has 11 stops of DR. You cannot ignore the read noise, and people seem to be trying to do that with these funky explanations of why the 5Ds "has the same DR as the 5D III, but also has more DR than the 5D III". None of it makes sense.

It's possible (although not likely) they're discussing about two different things. The dynamic range of each pixel is related to its capacity versus noise, and the dynamic range of the output is limited by the bit-depth of the ADC and file structure.


Aye, I think that's mincing.

Perhaps. Or it's wishful thinking ;)

If Chuck was talking about overall digital architecture in stating that the S is equivalent to the 3 since they're both 14 bit platforms, but that the the other spokesman was talking about sensor level noise, perhaps the raw files will have better flexibility in the shadows while still being equivalent from an overarching perspective.

I doubt it, but might as well wish for the best.

Personally, I think whether 12-ish stops is "plenty" is entirely subjective and contextual. There are those of us who could use 16 stops, 20 stops, if we had it. In some contexts, 12 stops is woefully inadequate.


Subjectivity and feelings vs. objectivity and facts. I'm trying to stick to the latter. ;)

Sure. I left off the implied "for me". Most of my profitable shots have been well within 12-stops, and others I have been able to mitigate by traditional methods of balancing the scene. Within the confines of 14-bit RAW, 12 is generally speaking good enough for me. The situations where the additional range my A7R provides make a significant difference are few and far between. I agree that 16 or 20 would be wonderful, but that's a pipe dream in any near term still cam I'm afraid.

34
EOS Bodies / Re: DR from 5Ds will be 2 stop better then 7D mk II
« on: February 10, 2015, 05:47:52 PM »

I still think people are mincing words here. The 5D III does not have 14 stops of DR. The 5D III has 11 stops of DR. You cannot ignore the read noise, and people seem to be trying to do that with these funky explanations of why the 5Ds "has the same DR as the 5D III, but also has more DR than the 5D III". None of it makes sense.

It's possible (although not likely) they're discussing about two different things. The dynamic range of each pixel is related to its capacity versus noise, and the dynamic range of the output is limited by the bit-depth of the ADC and file structure.

If I took a sensor like a Newton 920 with 94dB DR but ran it through an 12-bit ADC and store export 8-bit JPEGs, which would be the appropriate DR to quote?


The 5D line uses 14-bit ADCs and 14-bit files, and thus the output is bounded at 14-stops, for all 5D cameras.
The 5Ds sensors may have lower noise (and similar FWCs) to previous 5D cameras, and thus have greater flexibility to lift shadows. Again, I don't think it's likely, but whatever, 12-ish stops is generally plenty.

Jrista, why do you even shoot with Canon? You seem to bash them so much.

I think you're confusing jrista with dilbert. The former talks plainly about technology, the latter bashes.

35
EOS Bodies / Re: DR from 5Ds will be 2 stop better then 7D mk II
« on: February 10, 2015, 03:15:26 PM »
What's wrong with the 5D III's dynamic range?

Just to get in on the laughable car analogy theme, the same thing that's wrong with the traction of a 4X4 when it's high centered.

36
EOS Bodies / Re: After a 50MP camera what is the next breakthrough?
« on: February 10, 2015, 10:08:20 AM »
Will we have incredibly high ISO capability.

Um, we do already.

37
EOS Bodies / Re: DR from 5Ds will be 2 stop better then 7D mk II
« on: February 10, 2015, 09:28:16 AM »
I see the 5DS as being targeted to existing Canon system users. Not first time buyers of high resolution DSLR.

The 5DS will not outsell the Nikon D810 unless:

I believe you should put more thought into the above.  Canon system users outnumber Nikon system users.  The D810 is a very modest update to the D800, released only ~1 year later, so Nikon users who wanted a high resolution camera bought the D800 and are less likely to buy a D810.  Frankly, I can't see how the 5Ds would not outsell the D810.


I agree and moreover I think we will see a number of Nikon users jump ship AGAIN chasing MP.

Uhmmm.... Maybe some will. I certainly won't. 

Yah I don't see that resolution increase being compelling to D8xx owners. Maybe if there was some indication Nikon would never release a higher res model, but chances are they'll soon have a 45-50MP D900 (or whatever) and then a year later a D910.

38
EOS Bodies / Re: First DSLR with 3G/4G?
« on: February 10, 2015, 12:26:16 AM »
Can this not be done via Wi-Fi with a mobile hotspot capable cellphone?

Probably, but just like integrated GPS vs a dongle, people pay for integration. However I presume most people would resist paying a cellular plan for a camera. Businesses needing instant transfer from the field (which happens to have cell service) would probably rather its employees carry the extra gear. Anything to save a buck ;)

39
EOS Bodies / Re: RAW file size of crop mode in 5Ds/5DsR
« on: February 09, 2015, 03:55:16 PM »
Could Canon have incorrect data listed on their site, or is it just as simple as a full 50 MP CR2 file with a flag set for cropping in the raw editor?

I hope they've listed incorrect data, as the latter would be ridiculous.

40
EOS Bodies / Re: DR from 5Ds will be 2 stop better then 7D mk II
« on: February 09, 2015, 03:02:16 PM »
traditionally-measured DR being the same (perhaps stop-wedge as opposed to noise measurements), but the noise floor is lower.

This is poppycock (I hope I've got the right word, I'm not a native speaker :-))... dr is what arrives in the image data, and this is the difference between noise floor (including banding which raises it) and clipping.

That's the right word, though I suspect your english lessons are from the 1950s :P. These days we'd make mention of a male cow and its excrement.

In any case, what is the dynamic range of cameras which pre-date digital noise? What's the noise floor of emulsion film? I guess no unexposed negative film is truly clear so won't return black, is that the equivalent?

One can use a stop wedge to determine the total range of tones an imaging device, digital or otherwise, is capable of recording. It however isn't particularly useful in determining what kind of detail can be extracted. That's where the noise floor comes in.

In any case, this discussion is all for fun anyway. Nobody knows anything, and we're just making assumptions based on terminology. As mentioned, I expect files similar to those of the mk3, but... bigger. If the shadows have less noise, cool.

41
EOS Bodies / Re: DR from 5Ds will be 2 stop better then 7D mk II
« on: February 09, 2015, 02:36:10 PM »
Didn't Canon themselves, through Chuck Westfall, say that the 5Ds/R was going to have the same low ISO DR as the 5D III? That was strait from the mouth of Canon itself. I would be extremely surprised if the 5Ds had even one stop better DR, let alone two.

As as I recall, Chuck said the DR is about the same, making no mention of sensitivity (to be fair, I wasn't paying that much attention, so perhaps he did specify at low ISO).

Later, another spokesman type said something about traditionally-measured DR being the same (perhaps stop-wedge as opposed to noise measurements), but that the noise floor is lower.

Then an unnamed third party claimed a 1.5-2 stop improvement.

Personally, I suspect that what Chuck said is probably most accurate. Perhaps the noise floor is a little lower, but I don't expect 1.5 stops. And for me, that's fine. I'm happy with my 5D2/3 landscape work (I sometimes use an A7R, but generally speaking I prefer not), so I imagine I'll be happy with the 5Ds as well.

42
EOS Bodies / Re: DR from 5Ds will be 2 stop better then 7D mk II
« on: February 09, 2015, 01:07:59 PM »
Technically speaking, what (if anything) can be done to improve low ISO DR at the expense of high ISO DR? In other words, could Canon theoretically take it's existing sensor tech and fab process, and instead of improving overall sensor design, elect instead of deliberately compromise high ISO performance to improve low ISO DR?

At the sensor level? I doubt it. In the signal chain? Maybe. Perhaps they can use low-noise amplifiers down stream that wouldn't be sufficient for high-iso in their architecture. I'm just spit balling.

43
EOS Bodies / Re: It may be quite a wait for the 5Ds and 5Ds R
« on: February 09, 2015, 01:00:52 PM »
Or maybe the answer is simpler than that - maybe certain retailers are offering pre-order and others not!

 8)

I doubt on my vendor's side it's as sophisticated as large retailers like BHPhoto and Amazon who likely have an information flow with Canon in order to better facilitate bulk orders. My shop just knows he'll get some and wants to sell what he gets.

From the consumer perspective, it's pretty much the same experience, whether or not it has some official hook to Canon: here's my credit card, run it to make sure it's real, and charge it when the item hits your stock.

44
EOS Bodies / Re: It may be quite a wait for the 5Ds and 5Ds R
« on: February 09, 2015, 10:19:23 AM »
The internet reviewers, bloggers and Youtuber's all say they have it on pre-order. So perhaps there is a selective pre-order process? Maybe you have to be known "media" to get on the pre-pre-order list? While many claim to be unbiased or not connected to the manufacturers or major retailers - this is NOT the truth. They get first crack at new gear and free gear in exchange for reviews. If they want the freebies to keep flowing, then reviews need to be fair to positive at the least. That is why you rarely hear anything negative.

In any event, with a release of June, with the pre-orders that will pile up - those who decide to buy closer to release date may have to wait quite a bit longer than that....

I pre-ordered through a local vendor.

45
EOS Bodies / Re: DPReview Interview with Chuck Westfall of Canon USA
« on: February 09, 2015, 09:27:40 AM »
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5ds.html

Read the post on Sunday Feb 8th (today) regarding DR performance of the 5DS. Mentions pretesting puts it about 1.5 - 2 stops better than the 1DX at low ISO which according to DxO is 11.8 stops....  If this is correct, we are looking at low ISO DR on this 5DS between 13 and 14 stops....  Did things get more interesting for some of you again?

Not really. Even taking it as fact, that would give it roughly the usable range of an A7R, which I expect an 5Ds will be replacing in my kit anyway. :P

My interest is the same.

They said it was similar. Not better. If they wanted to rig it, yes, they would rig it to say "better" but they didnt say that.  By traditional measures it is similar to the 5D3 (possible subtext given this new information) but at Low IsO alone we are pushing 2 stops better than the 1DX. Im just putting the puzzle together based on what data we have. But it seems very suggestive

Have we ever known canon to specify dynamic range? I know they've used the phrase, but have they ever written it as a specification? I don't think they have. I'm sure they know what the noise floor is, but I wonder if they would tend to consider it in expressing DR, or whether they'd simply point to bit-width of the registers as the fundamental constraint.

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 40