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Messages - meli

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EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5D3 Dynamic Range
« on: May 05, 2012, 02:55:29 PM »

Why should you compare the D800 with the 5D3 - apples and oranges - definitely not its chief competitor

If the d800 is not the 5D3's primary competitor - then what body is?

D700 Mk II. :P

But seriously, EVERY camera is a competitor. People will decide between 5d3 and a 7d, or a rebel. The 5d3 might lose out due to price. The D700 and 5d2 are competitors. But I would say yea, the d800 is the primary competitor, if only because that is what people are comparing it to. People who are in the market for a $3000 FF camera will look at the 5d3 and d800 and decide between them. that makes them competitors! So yea, they are all apples.

same price range doesn't immediately make it so.  If strawberries are $4.99 a lb, and asparagus is 4.99 lb, does that mean both are the same?

Yeah, same price range.  But they are two different beasts.  If you primarily shoot landscapes and aren't bound by investments in lenses or overall budget/earnings the d800 is the way to go.  If you are more of an all purpose shooter, the mk3 has many advantages.  And while its not everyones cup of tea, if you shoot events and weddings and landscapes and are using canon systems, me thinks investing in ND and Grad filters would be a good work around to get more DR ---or shoot HDR...its not the best solution, but unless your making most of your income shooting landscapes I'd say switching systems is a frivolous investment...

(note I did not ad architectural work to this mix only because even with the DR of the d800, the canon Tilt shift lenses are much better than what nikon offers...)
Carrying NDs & grads & umbrellaboxes is not a substitute of the flexibility a greater DR offers you, there is just no comparison.
And It is the competitor in most cases, they're in the same price tag and are the most affordable -latest-tech- FF one can get.

and as for this:
If you are more of an all purpose shooter, the mk3 has many advantages
Lets be honest, it doesnt have many advantages, it has one, a measly one at that: 1fps more @22mp. And seriously for an "all purpose shooter" a choice between 16mp/6fps/crop - 25mp/5fps -36/4fps sounds much more convenient than between 22mp/6fps -22mp/6fps 22/mp/6fps

The TS-Es as you say though are a reason enough not to jump ship.

Canon has to be future proof: if the Mark III had the DR of the Sony Exmor what would they sell you in four years? A wise parent always reserves part of the presents for the next occasion...

well to a lot of canon people around here including me, they probably sell nothing at all for the next 4 years, how's that working for Canon? You can't really pick parents but sure as hell you can pick companies..

i wont be selling my Canon equipment anytime soon and I'm still shooting happily with my 5d2 but i will invest in D800 plus a couple of lenses.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Why so much trust in DXO.
« on: April 20, 2012, 10:03:38 AM »

the techradar test:

i thought techradar is a DxO certified lab?   


anyone cares to explain?

that does not explain how techradar and DXO come to different conclusions... given they both use the DXO testing method.

read again, they are a DXO certified lab.... so i guess they use not only the same software but also the same methodology.

I would love to see how they perform the tests in Techradar cause apparently if you'd give 5 monkeys 5 crayons and a paper they would definitely get less random results(and given enough time they would get them right:). for those who havent checked the graphs in the link, here are some exquisite findings:

  • d700 & 5dII have the same snr @ 6400iso as @ 200iso
  • you want the best DR out of a  D700 or a 5DII jpeg? shoot @3200
  • 5DIII jpegs has the same DR @ iso 50 & iso 25600
  • 5DII raws have the same DR all the way from 100 to 6400iso

Its not the first time either, i seem to remember some olympus-related paranoid results some time ago that didnt had any relation with reality either

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800
« on: April 05, 2012, 09:42:53 AM »
Asking whats the point of 36mp is kinda absurd;

So u're saying that If they can provide great high iso performance when downsized to their main competitor size AND still retain greater detail & DR  fullsized at anything below 1600 -plus- offering them 500$ cheaper doesnt make sense. Seriously?

Actually thats whats wrong with DPR forums, its not the nikon trolls & the pissed Canon users, its the thickheaded cheerleaders that are pathetic...

Ah, I knew a topic like this would attract more replies from Nikon fans than Canon, just like what happens in the Canon forum at DPR, which has now become unusable because more Nikon fanboys post on the Canon forums than Canon owners :D. I'm especially wary of member #s here higher than my own (read: recent registrants :P).

First of all, what is the point of 36MP if you have to downsize it to 22MP to get so-called "equivalent" high ISO noise IQ? This is why even DPR, rightly or wrongly, tests 100% crops from different MP cameras at its native resolution, and if you ask DPR they say that this is because "they don't do printer tests" (IOW, for them, it is silly to normalize to a common output). Most ironically, they actually now do printer tests :D. And thus, as early as now, I would say that the eventual DPR review would also show the same result as that on the article cited in the 1st post of this thread.

So again, those justifying the argument that "it's equivalent when downsized" should be called out, because then what about that other ability those other defenders claim 36MP allows them to do: crop and resize. Really, all their shots need to be downsized and cropped after* it has been downsized to 22MP to make it look good against its closest perceived competitor? I find that funny as a Nikon owner.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon marketing may be working overtime soon
« on: March 24, 2012, 10:23:55 AM »
well internet forums are only a small part of the "reality".
they are full of trolls, fanboys and wannabes.

a great deal of complains you see about the 5D MK3 comes from people who would/could not afford it anyway (same is of course true for the D800).

it´s like apple vs. microsoft.
if you believe the trolls neither of these companys make products that are good enough to make some money.

obviously these trolls are wrong.

what counts for canon and nikon are fiscal results.

My personal view is that opinion should be judged by its merits not by the person's expressing it. I dont care if you have a couple of phase1s lying around or a 350d, if your opinion is sound then thats all i need.

what counts for canon and nikon are fiscal results
Yes and this fuzz about the new releases will have repercussions to the fiscal results. If you see 5dmk3 dropping 300-500$ in less than a semester what would you think? That its Canon's good soul or that apparently many people stayed away (and a good percentage of them cause of the racket in forums like this)?

EOS Bodies / Re: Dpreview first impressions of the D800
« on: March 23, 2012, 11:23:30 AM »
I think a lot of people are simply buying the 36MP of the D800.  Canon is to blame in part for this for telling everyone more MP is better for the past few years!   ;)

My local store has become a Nikon fanboy so I dont rely on them anymore for advice.  I think the 5DmkIII will be great when the dust settle.

36mp isnt the whole picture im afraid, results are out @dxomark: http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Reviews/Nikon-D800-Review/Sensor-performance

D800 sensor is the new benchmark

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: D800 just took DXO Mark top spot...
« on: March 23, 2012, 11:16:56 AM »
Dxomark is getting hammered

Considering that it refers to a 36mp sensor the results are just insane. Congrats to the engineering team behind it.

EOS Bodies / Re: Dpreview first impressions of the D800
« on: March 23, 2012, 08:49:44 AM »
mmmkay... i'll give you another reason, the carton box of the nikon isn't as nice as the Canon one, and the font they use? ugly as hell!

Sorry OP but i seriously doubt your story

EOS Bodies / Re: Got it last night
« on: March 18, 2012, 06:19:00 PM »

EOS Bodies / Re: Any idea on how this was done...
« on: March 17, 2012, 05:34:01 PM »
He linked to the source, and its on a platform that by default allows sharing of content.
Plus with all the recent releases there was a flood of images and diagrams in the forum though i didnt notice you asking if they had permission, how's that?

I did recognize the items in 2 and 5 so that made it easier to guess.

How dare you be so well informed  :)

Images 2, 5, and 7 are from the Phase One. They are stunningly good images and beautifully lit, although I still find it odd that GM used such insanely expensive gear. I suppose that's the luxury you have when you're a multi-billion dollar corporation backed by taxpayer dollars :o The largest images like these are ever run in print are 4.5x3, and usually more like 3x2. As such, they are scaled to 10x8 at 300 dpi on GM's media site, so they're essentially throwing all the pixels away.

I think that much of the differences between the G7 and Phase One images are due to superior lighting techniques used in the MF images. I'd venture to say if the corporate hot shot photog shot used my G7 and I used the Phase One, the GM images might still look better.

If you havent mentioned that they're actual photos, 2 5 & 7 do look like engineering renders, rendered by an intern at that! That superior lightning technique you're referring to, is actually the default look of any GI render engine

Just my opinion but I believe very few people will actually switch camera makers, the majority who don't like the 5diii will just hold onto the current camera and see what is offered next. Whether that is a 3d, 5dmiiih, 7dmii there will be a next camera.
Maybe.., but there will be people buying into nikon without leaving Canon.
As justsomedude, I'm leaning also towards buying D800 after a month or so (basically after the reviews). And actually I'm excited about giving D800 a shot. As i was excited in the past about 5dm2, 1dsII, 5d, 40d, 5, 10 and 650!

EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« on: March 15, 2012, 06:56:12 PM »
hey the 40d is The classic out of the whole xxd series!

Well class leading AF, 100% VF, accelerometers, higher sensitive sensors for ISO, digic 5+, 6FPS, in camera HDR, more robust body and weather sealing, faster response times, 2 cards, no sony to shovel extra money into R&D, this doesn't come for free...  Let alone damage to facilities, possible insurance claims and or negative effects thereof... all that gets passed on to the consumer in some way shape or form... Sucks but the improvements puts this camera in a whole new class of camera compared to the 5d2.
Your inability to see the discrepancy between price/product and 4yrs R&D/product just amazes me.

ps. Claiming the Thailand event is counterproductive, the competition had even bigger damages

I hope there aren't that many people around who are bound to buy any body that Canon releases. The only way to make Canon think again about their strategy "double the price and see what happens" is if they cannot sell their full output of 5d3 at 3500 bucks.

Who is getting tired of all BS of 5d3 vs d800? you not only buy a camera.. YOU BUY THE SYSTEM..

The whole D800 vs 5d3 issue wouldn't be that heated if the 5d3 would be a little cheaper than the D800 and people would think Canon is pricing their gear according to technical quality, not just market value generated by a demand of people who are unable to choose.

I'd think more about investing in Canon gear if I'd trust Canon's long term strategy more - but seeing the last lens releases for video or high end, and now the 5d3 update after 3,5 years of development, I'll keep my money for the time being.


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