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Messages - meli

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EOS Bodies / Re: 5D3 same max dynamic range as the 5D2???
« on: March 09, 2012, 11:32:58 AM »
We are all spending hours and hours on numbers.
Very sad. Very sad.

Some time ago I saw an image taken from a MF and I was blown away.
I checked dxo and the DR was worse than the Sony Nex 10.

There are two things :
Numbers and what your eyes see.

I am going out now to take some pictures.
Or should I stay home to do some more calculations.

Please guys use the camera for where it was made for.
Numbers , numbers, numbers.
Go outside take pictures.
If you are happy and your customer is happy, then who cares if the DR is 10 or 11.

The same story everytime a new camera is about to release.

Guys i agree with both of you, its all about the image.

Now lets get it straight.
This is Canonrumors forum. Its a specific Brand product discussion point. Its not about the trade its about the tool.
If i want  to talk about photography i'll go and discuss it in a photography forum. If i want to talk about the tools, then here is the right place.

EOS Bodies / Re: 5D3 same max dynamic range as the 5D2???
« on: March 09, 2012, 03:22:44 AM »
Somehow i doubt you would be so sensitive about its methodology and findings if LetTheRightLensIn's thread title was "Zomg 5d3 has 14DR u guys!"

In my case i tend to believe him; his approach -with the amount of data we have so far- seems reasonable, his results fits other people tests, and since Canon itself hasnt bothered to announce something about low iso performance, tends to point in the direction LetTheRightLensIn is.

While I plan to buy a 5d3 I don't see what "justifies" the price outside of aggressive business practice. For me, nothing added to it would change my feeling. I've priced products for markets, and I suspect if I had been Canon, I'd have chosen this price too. I priced aggressively. To us consumers, the $3500 seems a shock at first, but I suspect Canon's thinking takes into account:

1. A huge pent up demand that will create strong initial sales. No reason not to milk this and lower the price over time as demand slows -- if it does slow.

2. A sub-$3k price would probably have meant turnover of nearly the entire 5D2 populace, and I don't think they can produce at that level. So, you price a lot of people out at $3500 and give them a 5D2 alternative. That keeps demand at manageable levels that can match profit forecasts. In reality, both products can create images better than what 95% of users need.

So, "justified" doesn't work for me, but I think I understand their motives. We'll agree to disagree, I'll buy the product and we'll both go on our way.

I quoted Benny because that's pretty much my thinking -- as it was when I bought a T2i at half the price (or less) than a 7D two years ago. Obviously, you don't get close to the AF and speed of the 7D with a T2i, but for someone coming back into photography, it was an excellent first DSLR. It gave me a great Canon DSLR education, and I still contend it can take excellent pictures. It also gave me time to acquire some better lenses than I already had with the intent of moving up.

The 5D3 has as much of the 1Dx as I could reasonably need or want. While I'd love to go to the streets with a 1Dx, I can't afford it, and it has far more capability than I need or will ever need. The 5D3, like the Goldilocks porridge, is "just right" for me.

Sound argument, and of course, as Canon has the right to set their price wherever they feel like there's enough stock to milk, so the userbase has the right to judge them.
 I dont think that many will go: "Hey Canon's latest price policy is retarded but hey they just do it cause they want to milk users so its ok!"

actually this might be my main gripe with Canon, I think they feel way too comfortable with their userbase

EOS Bodies / Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII
« on: March 05, 2012, 08:12:03 PM »
And pray tell us what kinda of wizardry has Nikon implemented with D800's price, since the d700 launched @ 300k Yen?

OP here;
I do sense a defensive stance from some people that already preordered the camera or they're about to, and perhaps its my fault cause i should had clarify it a bit better.
There're a million good reasons to buy M3, the question of this thread is whether you feel that  the 500$ gap over the competition is justified, objectively and with the info we have so far.

Geez enough threads about the price and trying to justify paying the price. 

The problem is that too many people have waited to upgrade and now they feel like they waited for nothing, or that they should have just updated to the 5DII a year ago.  They hung on to their 30D/40D/50D/60D/7Ds patiently and assumed (incorrectly) that the 5DIII would be the exact same price as the 5DII.  Now that the 5DIII is out of their price range, they are trying to internally rationalize why it's not worth $3500, even if the simple reason is that they just can't afford it.  They are trying to marginalize it, make it seem like it's just a 5DII with improved AF, because after all, it's hard to admit "hey this thing is awesome, I've been waiting on it forever, and I can't have it."  It's much easier to tell yourself "meh, it's just a little better than the 5DII, I'm not missing out." (which makes them feel better about now having to get a 5DII).  Then the confirmation bias sits in, they only read reviews that make the 5DIII seem not that great, they ignore the praises, and before you know it they genuinely believe it's a crap camera.  They post polls talking about what would "justify the price tag."  ;)

I mean usually when people DONT want something they DONT talk about it, why should they care?  Yet I see thread after thread of people that supposedly "dont want a 5DIII because it's not worth it," yet they can't shut up about the thing.  I know it sucks that it's out of reach for some people, I mean announcement day was the closest thing to Christmas morning that an adult camera enthusiast can experience, and it's a bummer when you realize Santa didn't bring you anything.  But have patience, the price will come down and a 5DII is still an awesome, very capable camera (I'm not getting rid of mine).

woah slow down mate,

no doubt there're people frustrated cause the M3 turned out of reach but lets not mix everything up,
its one thing if one can or cant afford it
its another thing if someone will buy it irregardless of cost
its another if someone want to be the first kid on the block
and its totally another if some feel that the camera is more expensive than it should be, judging by competition/tech

as far as this gem:
when people DONT want something they DONT talk about it
you do realize that some people have invested in the platform and seeing canon jacking up prices all across the board makes them justifiably nervous right?

I think Canon justified the price with the 61point AF and the sensor. The ISO performance from that sensor is incredible. $3500 is a lot, and is certainly more than I expected but I don't think it's overpriced. It might be a tad unfortunate for us but fair. I plan on buying one as soon as I can.

I do get the feeling that Canon's priorities for the new sensor were more towards pleasing the video community rather than the photographer, im really really curious about the low Iso DR

It might also help if they say offered it in a kit with the 24-70 II instead of just the 24-105 (which I do not want ever again) for a nice big discount, say $500 for the combo. $3500+$2300 for the pairing is a bit nuts. A kit with a big discount would start making the pricing look a bit more sensible.

doubt if the combo will fall below 5k any time soon; I can see MarkIII dropping in price rather soon, be it cause of the market or production cost, but 24-70 might hold its premium for quite awhile

EOS Bodies / Re: Nikon D800 vs Canon 5d3 sample images.
« on: March 05, 2012, 08:34:33 AM »
Hi, a bit off topic but I didn’t want to start a new just for this. There was a post and link given at some point in the mêlée pre 02/03 to a web site where the guy compared Canon & Nikon sensors when the same image is pushed. Was a photo looking out a window so very high DR. Can anyone help me with that link again please?

might be this:

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon 7D Mark II specs wishlist.
« on: March 03, 2012, 09:53:05 PM »
catch up with exmor sensor low Iso DR, wireless trigger, and not jacking it up to some insane price as is the pattern lately  >:(

To me, the 5D3 is really most of a 1Dx for a lot less money.

that's the thing Bennymiata, 5d & d800 are supposed to have tech from the corresponding top models. The point is how much of this tech trickles down, how it combines with original features to create a round product and for what price each company is willing to let it go.

In this sense it seems to many that Nikon's offer to their userbase is much more sound.

And of course a company doesnt have to have any kind of loyalty towards its userbase, but thats not a reason for people to not get pissed off with'em!

With the AF and ISOs, I think it's hard to balk at the price.  The 5D3 is a sweet machine that will allow for unmatched low-light photography.  And as some have already noted - considering inflation it's actually less than the 5D2 was in 2008.

But, if you wanted to do straight comparisons - I don't think a jump to $3,500 from $2,700 over 4 years is enough to warrant pulling out the pitchforks.  $800... that's $200/year, or a couple of portrait gigs. 

Anyway - I voted that the price is justified.  Considering I just sold my 5D2 for $2,000, having to come up with $1,500 for the latest and greatest technology in pro-photography is not too much to ask, at least in my opinion.

I've no doubt that you 'll enjoy 5D3 cause its a pretty solid offer.

Concerning the price, consider there's a competing product from another brand from the same country! And its not that upon launching it a week ago there was noise about it being 500$* cheaper despite the inflation!

Perhaps the fuss about the price is getting amplified cause all Canon's latest offerings were pinched up, some by a serious margin

*even more actually, i think d700 had higher MSRP than 5dII

i wanted to $800 USD rebate to your poll  :o

sorry mate, features only  ;D

EOS Bodies / What would make $3500 for 5DmIII justifiable for you?
« on: March 03, 2012, 07:20:49 PM »
My vote would be for a fully fledged wireless connectivity, so, what would make it for you?

ps1. MPs to fps was loosely based to 144mbs throughput (perhaps 7-8 would be for an APS-H subselection?)
ps2. Wireless would be a full feature, means flash controller/ file transmission /remote control
ps3. some would prefer a 500$ voucher included but lets keep it to features people!

i would like also you guys that already preordered to chime in;
I do understand that many of you have your reasons or that you'll have upgraded eitherway cause M3 does sound like a fine camera. What do you think? What would balance the +500$ over the competition?*

*Ofc we dont know anything about the real qualities of these cams, We dont really know how good AF or IQ etc might be, so lets just consider that both cameras perform half good as expected and then some!

EOS Bodies / Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« on: March 02, 2012, 11:04:47 AM »
Quote from: SRHelicity
We, as consumers, should demand more.  I still maintain that the 5D3 should be <= $3k.  I'm not a professional, nor do I make big $$, so $3500 is a significant chunk of change for me. If I had a 5D2, I couldn't see myself justifying spending $3500 (+ tax) for the 5D3.  I currently have a 60D, and I've been looking to jump up to FF, but I'd rather get a budget FF (<$2k) with 3-4 fps, less sophisticated AF and AE, etc.; I may end up with a 5D2 assuming the price drops.

Sorry, while a nice sentiment, and perhaps even a popular sentiment, that's not how business works. Consumers don't get to set pricing based on what an item "should be". Pricing of a sole-source product is set by the seller based on what the market (as a whole) will bear. If all preorders are filled in days, and then people are waiting until April/May for a 5DM3 body, we might learn that the $3500USD price was too low!

As a consumer, all you can do is buy or not buy. Begging or wishing might get you some thumbs up on a forum, but will be largely ineffective with the seller.

For a lot of people, a used 5DM2 + a great lens (or 2!) is a far better use of funds.

I doubt if its really "largely ineffective with the seller"; being the market how it is in both sides of the pond, the competition, and the premium for first time FFers (24-105 pack price, not even mentioning 24-70+grip+flash) i really cant foresee some great Q3-Q4 results for Canon with the current pricing policy

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