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Messages - peederj

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EOS Bodies - For Video / peederj
« on: September 14, 2014, 08:49:03 PM »
Canon already have all the required technology in the C500. That huge heatsink I think is purely a decoy, made to make it look like they had to strain to get 4K HFR out of the C100 form factor. They likely didn't, it's just a way of assuring upsales.

The things Canon didn't have in the C500 are instructive: a 4K codec and a storage format for one. They just had the same 50mbit MXF 1080p30 of the C300 onboard, and let you record 4K outboard. Tech has moved forward though and now there's Cfast and plenty of codec options for them to choose from. They could leave everything else as it is, just upgrade the line with Cfast cards and a 4K/HFR codec and call it C200/400/600. The sensor is already a 4K/HFR capable sensor as demonstrated in the C500.

I hope the ergonomics get a refresh too though because they really aren't shoulder-mount capable cams. The Sony FS7 shows how a cam should be set up...we shouldn't have to go to Zacuto for a relocatable EVF, a grip relocator, a shoulder pad or basic rails. And a power zoom rocker on the grip, movable DPAF points, the basic ergonomic complaints we had with the 1st gen C series should all be addressed in this refresh. Aaton cat-on-the-shoulder balanced design please.

But if Canon don't have the next line ready they can just upgrade the storage format and codec to remain relevant. If the C500 is already at max spec externally they could just leave it as-is until they have a new design. They have to do something right away though because the 4K train has left the station.

EOS Bodies / Re: A Surprise Cinema EOS Announcement for Photokina? [CR1]
« on: September 14, 2014, 08:27:06 PM »
BTW ... the 28-135 f/4 OSS power zoom lens ($2500) is included at $8000 too!

No it isn't...there is a package deal but it costs more than $8K with the lens.

The V-mount battery/output module that offers timecode and RAW output is only about $2K and I think it's a good design to have all that removable so you can get a small C100-size camera on a jib or gimbal. 4K is nice for stabilization and repo as mentioned. Everything RTS with the 28-135 pz and the battery/output module will run something like $12.5K street...but remember, you won't need any rigging or any extras other than battery and memory at that price. People in this forum would also get Speedbooster Ultra's for their EF glass.

And no, most hilariously, Canon are NOT going to be abandoning the Cinema camera space so quickly. The C-series have been incredibly successful. Trust me, think back to the price of the F35 and consider whether Sony really wanted to sell this FS7 at $8K. Canon is forcing them to undercut to this degree because the C-series is so popular. I have never had the least trouble with the C100 and I don't plan on selling it just yet. But I'm also unable to recommend it with the FS7 available at that price.

EOS Bodies / Re: A Surprise Cinema EOS Announcement for Photokina? [CR1]
« on: September 13, 2014, 11:03:27 PM »
I don't see any reason why Canon wouldn't want to go ahead and announce whatever they've got for Cinema at Photokina, before people receive their FS7's.

Canon definitely are not going to want to 4K enable the existing base of C100/C300s. They are going to want to sell you a new camera. This is OK with me.

Canon aren't going to 4K enable the 5D4 either I think. If you're going to shoot 4K video today, you're going to want the facilities of a purpose-built camera rather than a hybrid hack. And 4K is so unforgiving on talent, hair/makeup/wardrobe, set and lighting that anyone shooting it is going to have enough budget for a FS7-style cam. It will overcomplicate the DSLR to be good at 4K video too I think...you probably don't actually want such a 4K DSLR, you just want an FS7 for $3500 and I don't blame you.

The theory is the FS7 sensor is the same as the FS700 sensor, which loses color rapidly at high ISO. There is only 18dB of gain available over a base ISO of 2000, so that yields ISO 12000 if my math is right. Nowhere near the C100's/A7s's ISO100K or whatever it is. Realtime NR is how they do that btw.

I think Canon has to do something and NAB may be too late. There is only one 4K transition in history and this is it right now. Buying decisions are being made and Sony has a camera that, coupled with adapters like the Speedbooster, checks just about every box. I have enjoyed my C100/Ninja rig since the day it first shipped but I wouldn't buy it now most certainly, even now over $2000/20% discounted from when I got it. It still has a few advantages over the FS7 but certainly not enough to sway purchase. I even think the FS7 shoulder ergonomics are much better, the EVF and handle arm are included for the $8K.

EOS Bodies / Re: A Surprise Cinema EOS Announcement for Photokina? [CR1]
« on: September 13, 2014, 05:04:24 AM »
Of course this rumor is the panicked response to the FS7...trying to stave off the inevitable mass migration unless Canon has something else to say. Sony is dismantling Canon piece by piece, and Sigma, Tamron, Tokina, Zeiss, and Samyang have put a big dent in their glass sales. What can Canon do?

Key to the FS7 is the E mount, it can be adapted to anything bigger including PL, Canon, and Nikon. The Metabones Speedbooster (now with a high end Ultra version) gives super 35 a full-frame look and speed. The CX00's still have better low-light than the FS7 even though they are super 35, but not as good as the A7s low-light. However the A7s has miserable rolling shutter.

Combining all of these factors it's clear the sensor Canon must develop for the next Cinema line is full frame with a global shutter option. Some will still prefer super 35 with PL mount but that's not Canon's glass strength. EOS-M mount failed bitterly and can't host full-frame. No Speedbooster can be used with the EF flange distance. So Canon has to provide a full frame option for full frame look and low-light capability...there's no choice. And because it's so slow to read out of such a sensor it needs global shutter to avoid the jello.

That might preclude HFR so they may have an HFR camera that's super 35 and does at least 1080p240 and hopefully 4K120 or at least 4K60 like the FS7 can. Canon also must settle on a storage format (Cfast?) and codec (AVC-Uktra?) that has likely been holding them up all this time.

I like Canon but Sony has better offerings in every form factor other than the 1DX. The RX series, the A7's, the FS7...they have bet the company on video and it's a formidable company. One hopes Canon is ready to go with a new line because I couldn't recommend them anymore.

Well now that we are aware of this technique, we should examine the DR claims of other video manufacturers to see if this is how they're doing it. The tell-tale would be aliasing effects on high-contrast diagonals.

Which shows you how important chart tests are, and how bizarre it is that there still isn't a site that does consistent and reproducible chart tests for the entire range of video cameras. At the cost of these things, we have a right to know.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Firmware - Canon EOS C100
« on: July 01, 2013, 05:50:40 PM »
In fact it's purely the 18-135 STM...the 40mm pancake does not autofocus or auto-iris (yet).

This strictly was a way for Canon to tell ENG they had a solution in the C100, for everything but power zoom. It's apparently a good solution. Maybe I will even pick up one of those lenses with the 70D kit on a Xmas special. But it's not a parfocal lens sadly and it will be October before the firmware offering movable mag assist appears, which is our next chance to have e.g. the 40mm pancake supported. The 'cake would be good for steadicam AF use, nice & light.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 70D Spec List
« on: June 27, 2013, 03:06:36 PM »
Might be a nice reach companion to the 5D3 at $1000 intro or thereabouts. If it's only a stop better DR than the 60D that's not so great but passable.

With the articulating screen it may be nice for video too. The critical question will be the downsampling: it's not 3x3 binning as the sensor isn't the 22.3MP of the 5D3. So one wonders if it's still 1st-gen line skipping or if they are using that Digic5+ and giving it the downsampling of the 1DX. Also, not clear if it does clean HDMI. I imagine it has all the 700D autofocus features and touch screen doodads.

At 7fps I doubt it's the SD card speed of the 5D3's SD slot. I would imagine it has fast writes, hopefully fast enough for a ML RAW video hack...

EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Mark III with Continuous RAW Video Recording
« on: May 22, 2013, 04:18:43 PM »
ACR workflow in Photoshop:


EOS Bodies - For Video / Re: ALL-I or IPB?
« on: May 21, 2013, 11:07:52 PM »
Yes I think a lot of the lore about ALL-I being better had to do with NLEs or post workflows where the rendering of IPB frames wasn't very good. On FCPX you can't tell the difference, but of course FCPX is an all-new state-of-the-art rendering engine (even though many like to think it's still in its launch state feature set).

ALL-I vs. IPB is sort of old news though with clean HDMI and Magic Lantern RAW available. I predict ML will develop further powers (using better internal codecs, higher resolutions, if not higher framerates) for the 5d3 that will even make clean HDMI a nonstarter. Right now in practical use I would use the Ninja 2 with the 1.2.1 firmware, but note, the screen on the Ninja 2 takes about a half second to update the image, which can affect focus pulling a bit. This lag is NOT present for the C100's clean HDMI. The C100 is really the camera I would recommend for video unless you must have stills in the same body.

EOS Bodies - For Video / Re: ALL-I or IPB?
« on: May 21, 2013, 12:59:28 AM »
The 1.2.1 clean HDMI out is 8 bit uncompressed 4:2:2 at 1080i60. If you are shooting 24p the Ninja 2 will do the 3:2 pull down for you.

EOS Bodies - For Video / Re: ALL-I or IPB?
« on: May 19, 2013, 11:05:23 PM »
There is no perceptible difference between the two encodings that I can detect. Not on moving or still or simple or complex images. The only difference I can find is ALL-I wastes a lot of card space.

What you want to do for broadcast use is get an Atomos Ninja 2 and the new Canon 1.2.1 Clean HDMI firmware for the 5D3. The Ninja 2 will record the HDMI output direct to ProRes in either 1080i or 1080p formats, up to 60i or 30p frame rates. You will have the best quality that way and the files will come out of the Ninja ready to submit and be cut.


Yes do it in TIFF. Cinema5D published a workflow that way.


EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Mark III with Continuous RAW Video Recording
« on: May 18, 2013, 01:49:12 AM »
Look at how awful the false color artifacts (rainbow colors) are on the BMCC sensor vs. the 5D3 RAW rendering the pebbles on the path up the middle:
Hmm is this a general issue with Black Magic sensors? Or is it a contrived example?

It tends to be a problem with sensors that work at or near native resolution. The BMCC sensor is only 2.5 megapixels and as a result has no downsampling approach to dealing with moire. At that low resolution, they decided not to use an OLPF because it would lose them their sharpness. With a bayer pattern sensor the grid of photosites tends to cause false color artifacts, which are hard to suppress...but Canon and Sony have learned how to do so quite well. Not so Blackmagic.

Blackmagic has a camera in development that shoots 4K video and is Super 35 sized. However the inexpensive sensor they chose for that is not particularly great at dynamic range. The core ergonomic problems of the BMCC design have also not been addressed in that camera. They have a pocket camera coming out that competes with the GH3 but has the same problems as their current sensor.

What Blackmagic is extremely good at is internet marketing. Not cameras.

The Ninja 2 is the way to go if you want to use the Clean HDMI out of the 5D3. And there's a lot of good reasons you would want to even if you are interested in the ML RAW hack. For one, you get hours of shooting time, and for two, you get a decent external monitor. You can also get internal proxy recording on the 5D3's own cards simultaneously. And you have the stability of factory firmware rather than a hack.

The quality improvement is a lot better than Andrew (who has a legendary axe to grind with Canon) insists. It's real uncompressed 422 at 8 bit, which can handle the ~11 stops of the 5D3 video when using Cinestyle. It is a bit noisy, you will want to run Neat Video to clean it up at higher ISO's. It's not as good a picture as the C100 recorded to the Ninja, but it's just as easy to work the Ninja on the 5D3. The C100 is a much better video camera in general, but it will never have a full frame sensor or the RAW hack (you will need the C500 for official RAW video on a current Canon).

Right now it may be best to wait a couple months if you can before buying into either option. The cost of the Ninja 2 and a couple laptop drives (you don't need SSDs, rotational ones are fine, unless you want to move around a lot in which case SSDs won't have a gyroscopic effect) is about similar to a stack of the fastest CF cards for the RAW option. The RAW hack right now has a recording time limit of 49 seconds and only 15 minutes or so can fit on a 64GB card. The Ninja can record for hours at ProRes 422 HQ quality (not quite RAW but awesome codec, most of the people using RAW transcode to it anyway, though they can do a primary grade beforehand in something like ACR) without having to change drives or batteries. Also Atomos just came out with the Samurai Blade that has a much better screen (the Ninja 2 screen isn't so pretty, just usable) so a Ninja Blade may be coming out soon.

So I'm waiting to see what happens. The RAW is going to be the best absolute IQ, but at a fair amount of hassle. I may rent a Ninja 2 if a shoot comes up where I need it in the meantime. I don't recommend the Blackmagic Hyperdeck, it's cheaper but you get what you pay for. It's bigger, it needs some external battery solution, it doesn't do the 3:2 pulldown meaning you have to deinterlace manually in post (which sucks), and it has no monitor, and requires a $100 add-on plate just to mount it to something. Blackmagic sure knows how to work the internets for maximum hype, but their products (other than Resolve, which they bought from another company) are frankly half-baked cwap.

EOS Bodies - For Video / Re: Need help with video lighting!!!
« on: May 17, 2013, 02:52:17 AM »
LED grids are also murder on the talent's eyes. Tungsten carries a lot of heat of course and 1K's can easily make people sweat. Plus you can easily overload a circuit breaker with Tungsten, which wastes most of its energy in the IR (heat) band, and the bulbs burn out fairly quickly so you need spares.

There is no ideal video light but tungsten is definitely the best looking and easiest to grade in post. For lighting up a green screen use fluorescents, the green spike helps in that case.

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