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Messages - dilbert

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1546
EOS Bodies / Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« on: December 01, 2013, 04:44:58 PM »
Hmmm ... sing glories of DR, as if it is the God of all things photography ...

Actually it is. Colour reproduction is what it is all about. Why do you think there was more than one film back in the day? And that photographers preferred to use one film over another? Graininess and colour reproduction.

1547
EOS Bodies / Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« on: December 01, 2013, 08:20:36 AM »
I am not interested in this constant regurgitation of theoretical tech mumbo jumbo. It has no immediate practical relevance to a photographer.

Photographers are interested in the images they can capture using the gear available today.

Today's situation is simple and clear:
  • Currently Nikon D800/E and Sony A7R have way more resolution at all ISO settings than any Canon EOS camera.  This is usefuly in many images and shooting contexts. :-)
  • D800/E + A7R have way more DR at the most frequently used low ISO settings. This is useful in many images and shooting contexts. :-)
  • D800/E and A7R images have not more noise but very slightly less DR at ISO settings 3200 and 6400 compared to any Canon EOS currently on the market (including 5D III and 1Dx). In practice it is a wash. 
  • And from ISO 12800 upwards - if one ever needs it - IQ is basically a tie between Nikon D4 and 1Dx

Canon is lagging behind Nikon/Sony in sensor capability and should do everything they can to close the gap as soon as possible. Or leapfrog Sony/Nikon ... if they are able to.uote] Canon should not rely much longer solely on other strengths of their eco-system (mainly: UI and lenses), since this is a high risk strategy. After all, to most photographers, image quality is the single most important and central feature of any image capturing device. :-)

+1

Quote
Therefore a 5D IV should have significantly higher resolution and significantly better DR compared to 5D III sensor at ISOs 100, 200 and 400. Plus some further improvements in IQ at higher ISO settings (if possible in addition to low ISO improvements). Plus of course, all the other features needed to make it 100% competitive in 2014/15.

Not sure about resolution as it increases the difficulty in obtaining sharp images.

1548
EOS Bodies / Re: "Two New FF Bodies in 2014" - if 5DM4, would you jump in?
« on: December 01, 2013, 08:16:50 AM »
I resisted buying a 5d3 for ages based on the IQ/DR argument. And I maintain the 5d3 is no better: in fact, I think the 5d2 has fractionally more image 'oomph' but I could well be subjectively skewed. That said, the 5d3 is a lot better practically in terms of usability than the 5d2. And then there's the better AF which ultimate leads to better images anyway...

On the topic of image sharpness as a result of using autofocus, if the testing from dpreview is anything to go by then the AF in the 70D (using the dual-pixel thing) is better again than that in the 5D3 and that using live-view mode on either the 5D2 or 5D3 is better than traditional AF.

1549
EOS Bodies / Re: "Two New FF Bodies in 2014" - if 5DM4, would you jump in?
« on: December 01, 2013, 08:13:04 AM »

It's all about conversion costs.

Well, Sigma are working towards making it easier with lenses that can be adapted.

You misunderstand. I'm not talking about converting from one camera system to another. I'm talking about converting a potential customer into a paying customer. All companies have to do a cost-benefit analysis to determine if a category of potential customers is worth the cost of converting them into paying customers.

Right, so if I were Canon then I'd be looking at the sales graph of the 5D2 vs the 5D3 and working out where there is a gap.

Would Canon like for you to buy a 5DIII. Well, in an ideal world yes. But they have to look at what it will take to do that. You take way too long to make a decision, you don't spend very much and after the sale you are likely to be a high maintenance customer.

There's a lot of speculation and comment there with no basis for fact.

Not really. You've been posting on this site for years. More than 2,000 posts. It's pretty easy to sketch your profile.

Be my guest...

So, it's basic business sense that it's better to concentrate on customers who want to make a purchase, are going to make that purchase in the near future, are likely to make additional after-sales purchases and are likely to be content with their purchase decisions.

They're called "fan-bois" and will do whatever Canon says and buy whatever Canon makes.

Just more proof of my previous point. To you they are "fan-bois." Canon calls them "loyal customers." What Canon knows is that I will open my wallet for their products. So, what I want in new products is going to carry more weight than trolls who seldom if ever actually purchase Canon products.

Then there are very few "loyal customers" as outside of the Internet, I don't know or see anyone that upgrades with every iteration from a manufacturer like "fan-bois" posting on the 'net do. Everyone waits and evaluates.

1550
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon abandoned EOS M?
« on: November 30, 2013, 08:50:01 PM »
Considering the enormous price drop, the non-release of EF-M 11-22 in the USA, and EF-M 22mm discontinued in BH site, it seems to me that the EOS-M system will be abandoned soon. What do you think?

That Americans haven't warmed to the EOS-M and that Canon America doesn't think that they will. Don't confuse prices and product availability in the USA to be representative of the rest of the world.

1551
EOS Bodies / Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« on: November 30, 2013, 08:48:12 PM »
That said, physically, I think it is impossible for any camera to have a true two stops better performance than the current 5D III...

The 36MP Nikon D800 already offers 2 points of DR above what the 5D3 does with comparable noise.
The D800's pixels are 4.9um, the 5D3's are 6.25um.
So not "better" but "the same" for smaller.

This is the opposite of what I'm talking about. At low ISO, dynamic range is limited by read noise. Canon has gobs of read noise at low ISO thanks to their ADC.

Yes and it is easily visible in dark tones.

1552
EOS Bodies / Re: "Two New FF Bodies in 2014" - if 5DM4, would you jump in?
« on: November 30, 2013, 08:45:15 PM »
Here's the tough to accept fact Dilbert. Canon doesn't really care to have you as a customer.

That's quite ok.

Quote
It's all about conversion costs.

Well, Sigma are working towards making it easier with lenses that can be adapted.

Quote
Would Canon like for you to buy a 5DIII. Well, in an ideal world yes. But they have to look at what it will take to do that. You take way too long to make a decision, you don't spend very much and after the sale you are likely to be a high maintenance customer.

There's a lot of speculation and comment there with no basis for fact.

Quote
So, it's basic business sense that it's better to concentrate on customers who want to make a purchase, are going to make that purchase in the near future, are likely to make additional after-sales purchases and are likely to be content with their purchase decisions.

They're called "fan-bois" and will do whatever Canon says and buy whatever Canon makes.

Quote
You want to get the most for your money. So does Canon. They look at you (actually the profile of hundreds of customers like you) and compare what it will cost them to convert you to a buyer. They compare the cost to convert you to a buyer to the cost of other buyers, including existing customers, and focus on doing what it takes to attract interested customers rather than theoretical customers.

That's actually the most intelligent part of your whole post. It would be interesting to see the sales volume of the 5D3 vs the 5D2 over time and if X% of 5D3 sales are upgrades, how many haven't upgraded.

1553
EOS Bodies / Re: "Two New FF Bodies in 2014" - if 5DM4, would you jump in?
« on: November 30, 2013, 08:39:08 PM »
Or people like me that care about DR and IQ just haven't bought a 5D3 because it doesn't add any value over the 5D2 ...

People like you...who are in the minority.   ::)

And you know this because...?

Because Nikon/Sony sensors have had better low ISO DR than Canon sensors for several years/camera generations now, and Canon continued to outsell Nikon during those years...and is still doing so today.  Clearly, the majority of consumers are making buying decisions where low ISO DR isn't the priority.

For a scientist, you either have very poor English comprehension skills or you just like to troll because you and I both know that your paragraph above has nothing to do with what I said to which you said I was in the minority.

In fact, you either have very poor metacognition or you just like to insult people (or perhaps both).

My statement has quite a bit to do with yours, considering your entire statement and not just the first clause.  I'd say a large majority of dSLR users care about IQ.  I'd also say that a majority of dSLR users care about DR (at least, a majority of those who know what DR is...but frankly, that's probably a minority of dSLR users). 

But...you state that since the 5DIII does not improve on the (low ISO) IQ or (low ISO) DR of the 5DII (which are already very good, just not the best available), it adds no value.  Since the 5DIII improves upon the 5DII in nearly every other way (AF, fps, build, card slots, etc.), that indicates that the only aspect of camera performance you care about is low ISO IQ/DR, and that puts you squarely in the minority.

No, it puts me in a group that is "probably a minority" (your definition) unless you have numbers to show otherwise? Furthermore, there is nothing to say that this group of people are all buying Nikon/Sony. They might have, but they may not. What I argue is that those that do care about IQ/DR haven't bought a 5D3 because it offers them no benefit over the 5D2. A better question to ask is what percentage of 5D2 owners haven't bought a 5D3 and if so, is it because of this. Maybe it is time for a new poll...

1554
EOS Bodies / Re: "Two New FF Bodies in 2014" - if 5DM4, would you jump in?
« on: November 30, 2013, 12:15:53 PM »
Or people like me that care about DR and IQ just haven't bought a 5D3 because it doesn't add any value over the 5D2 ...

People like you...who are in the minority.   ::)

And you know this because...?

Because Nikon/Sony sensors have had better low ISO DR than Canon sensors for several years/camera generations now, and Canon continued to outsell Nikon during those years...and is still doing so today.  Clearly, the majority of consumers are making buying decisions where low ISO DR isn't the priority.

For a scientist, you either have very poor English comprehension skills or you just like to troll because you and I both know that your paragraph above has nothing to do with what I said to which you said I was in the minority.

1555
EOS Bodies / Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« on: November 30, 2013, 12:13:05 PM »
I would like to see following out of 5D4:
Wifi
GPS
DPAF
Touchscreen for DPAF focus
micro USB 3.0 cable support for faster cable transfers to PC

Yup, they will all be there.

Quote
Touchscreen for Pinch to Zoom image preview, quicker image proofing
Articulating screen if they are able to make it durable for creative shooting purposes
Dual SD slots that fully support UHS II standard

All quite possible since they're gimics that will attract feature-buyers...

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Image quality improvement

If you're lucky...

1556
EOS Bodies / Re: "Two New FF Bodies in 2014" - if 5DM4, would you jump in?
« on: November 30, 2013, 11:57:25 AM »

Or people like me that care about DR and IQ just haven't bought a 5D3 because it doesn't add any value over the 5D2 ...

Umm...I guess 61points AF system doesn't mean anything ::)

Exactly right.

1557
EOS Bodies / Re: "Two New FF Bodies in 2014" - if 5DM4, would you jump in?
« on: November 30, 2013, 11:54:16 AM »
Or people like me that care about DR and IQ just haven't bought a 5D3 because it doesn't add any value over the 5D2 ...

People like you...who are in the minority.   ::)

And you know this because...?

1558
EOS Bodies / Re: "Two New FF Bodies in 2014" - if 5DM4, would you jump in?
« on: November 30, 2013, 07:14:26 AM »
Funny that not too many people speak about Improved DR, while the fierce D800 vs 5D3 discussions and the numerous DxO mark discussions always claim Canon has much worse DR compared to competition. I may not be too bad after all  ;)

Or people like me that care about DR and IQ just haven't bought a 5D3 because it doesn't add any value over the 5D2 ...

1559
EOS Bodies / Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« on: November 30, 2013, 07:08:12 AM »
That said, physically, I think it is impossible for any camera to have a true two stops better performance than the current 5D III...

The 36MP Nikon D800 already offers 2 points of DR above what the 5D3 does with comparable noise.
The D800's pixels are 4.9um, the 5D3's are 6.25um.
So not "better" but "the same" for smaller.

1560
EOS Bodies / Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« on: November 30, 2013, 03:02:54 AM »
A new 5D next year? Don’t think so.
5D => 5DII 3 years;
5DII => 5DIII 3.5 years;
5DIII => 5DIV… 3 to 4 years probably.
So it will be well into 2015 and probably 2016 before we get a new 5D.

If the successor for the 5DIII arrives later than 2015 then I doubt that I'll buy it because by then I expect Oympus and others to have increased the IQ in m4/3 and other smaller cameras to the point where I'm happy. I also expect by then that their AF solutions to be just as good as anything in a DSLR.

Already the Nokia 808 PureView is able to give the D800 a run for its money so...

Sure, people will still buy the 5DIV if it arrives in 2016, but it won't be a very interesting proposition as a new camera.

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