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Messages - dilbert

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1561
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Mother of God - D800 scores 95 DxOMark
« on: March 24, 2012, 09:03:00 AM »
That sound.... that loud rumbling... it's the sound of a herd of Canon landscape photographers rushing to buy a D800 and a 14-24/2.8. It crushes on MP and it crushes on DR. It will happen, and all the defensive fanboy snottiness isn't going to change that.

I don't shoot landscape. The D800 is the wrong camera for me, but all the signs point to it being killer.

If I were you I'd settle for commenting on the area of photography that you do engage in.

1562

And you bought it for what reason?

It is better to do the research before you purchase rather than after

I couldn't agree more. And how do you research a camera that has not been released? You can't.
Would you buy a car without taking it for a test drive?

1563
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Mother of God - D800 scores 95 DxOMark
« on: March 24, 2012, 12:12:31 AM »
That is for in-camera produced JPEG files only, which means the software in the camera is better, not the hardware.

If that's referring to me saying 'stop or two better', i thought that RAW was a stop better, JPG was 2-stops better?

Or we'll just have to wait for the 5D3 DxO results...

Go and read the Chuck Westfall interview, he is very guarded about what he says with respect to improved sensor performance.

Thus far, all the evidence points to the 5D3 being about the same as the 5D2 for ISO 100 through to 400.

1564
EOS Bodies / Re: I'm Sad but I'm going to hang in there...
« on: March 23, 2012, 10:31:27 PM »
I have to agree with a lot of what you are saying.  I switched from a D300 to a 5DII because it was just a stunning leap in technology and image quality that Nikon could not match.  Well not for less than $8000.  And I'd been a Nikon shooter for 10 years.   Minolta for 15 years before that.

Now my 5DIII is in the mail, and I see the report on DXO that the D800 is the new #1 sensor.  And I read the lackluster reports on the 5DIII.  Hmmm.  I have $20K in Canon lenses sitting on the shelf behind me, and shot 160K photos with my 5DII.  And I am wondering if I am going the right way.

Various industry observers noticed about 3 years ago that Canon was just offering the same old camera each time, with a tweak here or there - they weren't making any big leaps or advancements.

The proof of that is what we see now. Canon will be the last to the party with the mirrorless compact cameras and the 5D3 is almost the same as the 5D2 in terms of IQ.

There's no sign of any significant innovation in anything Canon has produced recently except the G1X.

1565
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Mother of God - D800 scores 95 DxOMark
« on: March 23, 2012, 10:24:21 PM »
The biggest problem with most of the canon sensors is that the performance 'plateaus' at lower ISO, like iso100 isn't much better than iso200 or iso400. The D3X pretty much went in a straight line, and the D800 does too (just a bit better than the D3X).

Something tells me that they haven't fixed it though, because canon marketers would be all "4-stop improvement in image quality at low iso". They've told us high-iso is a stop or two better than 5D2, and i'd believe that.

That is for in-camera produced JPEG files only, which means the software in the camera is better, not the hardware.

1566
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Mother of God - D800 scores 95 DxOMark
« on: March 23, 2012, 10:16:18 PM »
...
So the D800 is about the same as the 1ds3 then at low iso ...... big news item 'Nikon catches up with 4 year old Canon tehnology'

No, the 1Ds3 never had DR like the D800 does at low iso.

The 1ds3 outruns the 5DII which is just behind the D800 .....

Are you looking at the same camera?

1Ds3..
Color Depth   24 bits
Dynamic Range  12 Evs
Low-Light ISO   1663 ISO

5D2
Color Depth 23.7
Dynamic Range 11.9
Low-Light ISO   1815 ISO

D800
Color depth 25.3
Dyamic Range 14.4
Low-Light ISO  2853 ISO

Perhaps the most damning of all is the DR - as can be seen in the graph below.

In some of the other graphs, the D800 is close to a full stop better than either the 1Ds3 or 5D2.

That means the D800 at ISO 200 is generating images as good as the 5D2 at ISO 100.

This isn't "just a little bit better", it is significantly better and what we expected/wanted from the 5D3.

1567
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Mother of God - D800 scores 95 DxOMark
« on: March 23, 2012, 09:52:22 PM »
The first thread on this topic has already been deleted by the site admins... wonder how long this one will survive.

1568
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Mother of God - D800 scores 95 DxOMark
« on: March 23, 2012, 08:09:41 PM »
...
So the D800 is about the same as the 1ds3 then at low iso ...... big news item 'Nikon catches up with 4 year old Canon tehnology'

No, the 1Ds3 never had DR like the D800 does at low iso.

1569
dilbert, they also significantly improved the AF on the 5D3.

I feel the tests DxO runs is heavily biased towards Nikon anyways.  It's hard to believe not a single Canon camera is in the top 10, and the 7D isn't even in the top 50.

That is the interesting thing. According to DXO the 7D sensor rates very poorly but I'm not sure I could tell the difference between it and the D7000 sensor in an actual image.

And I'm really confused by the DXO rating on ISO. The real world images do NOT reflect what those numbers are saying. Maybe it has to do with upscaling or whatever (I don't know much about that however). Maybe someone can explain better.

Exactly my point... we are getting to worked up with numbers and not enough on final output/quality.  We're splitting hairs.

Would you all be saying that if it was the Canon 5DIII that scored 95 at DxO mark and was vastly superior to the D800?

1570
dilbert, they also significantly improved the AF on the 5D3.

I feel the tests DxO runs is heavily biased towards Nikon anyways.  It's hard to believe not a single Canon camera is in the top 10, and the 7D isn't even in the top 50.

In the past they wrote an article on how the S95's sensor performed better than that of the D3s. Does that sound like bias towards Nikon to you?

They have no bias except towards good cameras. That Canon does not have any cameras in the top 10 says more about Canon than it does about DxO.

Haha V8 =)  As far as I can recall with the DxO goes, nikon's sensors, according to their tests, have always bested Canon's sensors, or at least in the last half decade or so... Whether it was D700 vs 5d2, 50D or 7D vs D300(s) or D90, etc... Coincidence?  maybe.  Bias based on testing method?  Maybe.  Nikon has better sensors?  maybe.  I definately am not going to start sensationalizing Canon or flaming DxO.  Frankly, if DxO tests the 5d3 and finds it better than the D800, i would be shocked.  But in the end, i think image quality on all these upper tier cameras are getting so good across the board that we are really splitting hairs with these numbers...  Do i think canon will release a big MP monster within 12-16 months?  I can definitely see it, after all they have a reputation for wanting to prove who's shlong is longer in that department, but in the end the 5d3 is a fine camera and I cant wait to shoot with mine.

Big MP monster is not enough. They also need to improve the quality of the output of the sensor right across the ISO range - exactly what they have not done (so far as we can tell) with the 5DIII.

1571
EOS Bodies / Re: Patent: Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 VC
« on: March 23, 2012, 12:19:11 PM »
It's too bad that lenses from Tamron/Sigma/Tokina don't come with a part that is easily swapped around to convert the lens from being a Canon mount to Nikon mount to Sony mount...

1572
So in case anyone from Canon is reading (or someone that knows someone at Canon), this is the kind of sensor performance we are (or should I say were!) expecting with the 5DIII.

From all of the early testing thus far, it is quite clear that the 5DIII will be nowhere near the D800 in terms of sensor performance.

Just improving low-light, high-iso a little bit is not enough. Just giving us more FPS is not enough.

Especially when Canon's #1 competitor has just released a camera that gives photographers everything that they were looking for in the 5DIII with the exception of higher shooting speed.

I'll give Canon until the end of the year before I jump ship, which effectively means I'm going to jump ship because they cannot release a new FF camera with a sensor to at least equal the D800 in less than a year. But for a good while, there is just going to be a feeding frenzy around the D800 so it will be hard to come by and deals non-existent.

And if I had of placed an order for a 5DIII and it had not yet shipped, I'd be ringing up right now and canceling that order because the testing thus far puts the D800 miles and miles ahead of the 5DIII in terms of sensor performance.

1573
EOS Bodies / Re: dpreview and the 5DmkIII
« on: March 23, 2012, 08:57:02 AM »
Maybe they haven't gotten a hold of a "production" 5DIII yet.  It's reaonable that they don't want to do their full blow evaluation using a pre-produciton version just in case it's tweaked out in some way.

+1

1574
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5D Mark III Reviews
« on: March 23, 2012, 08:19:28 AM »
Wow, EOSHD really rips Canon a new one.

1575
EOS Bodies / Re: Unofficial Canon Mirrorless Concept
« on: March 23, 2012, 01:26:40 AM »
What is the point of this?

It reads like someone's pipe dream.

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