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Messages - dilbert

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1561
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: So Nikon D600 is real after all
« on: June 14, 2012, 10:17:07 PM »
maybe just maybe if a bunch of canon shooters jump to the dark side, maybe we will see a huge flux of gear up for sale...  =)  sweet.

If Nikon provides me a camera with better IQ than the 5D3 for half the price, I'll be one of them.

I doubt that D600 will have better IQ than 5D3. Nikon will definitely be keeping a good quality difference between D600 and D800 if D600 is half the price of D800.

If you want the best quality and the most megapixels, you'll get the D800. The D600 is for those that want full frame but have neither the money nor the technique to get the best out of the D800.

The D600 will be a bigger threat to Canon than it will be to Nikon's D800.

For the price of a 5D3 you will be able to buy a D600 plus lens or two.

The 5D3 has two problems:
1) price tag
2) sensor
and Canon can only fix one of those without replacing the product. That said, maybe the 5D3 will go the way of the 1D3 and have a short life span of about 18 months.

1562
Third Party Manufacturers / Tamron need some more FF lenses...
« on: June 14, 2012, 10:07:58 PM »
At least two lenses that I can think of.

* A wide angle zoom, from 16-17mm to 28-40mm (not really worried about f-stop)
* A standard f/4 zoom from 24mm to 100 to 120mm (with IS)

With Tamron's current delivery, they'd have a 24-100-something that would retail for around $600 and be as good as or better than Canon's and also kick Canon in the pants with a wide angle that works.

I'm not much in favour of lenses wider than 16mm on full frame because they end up requiring a curved front element which introduces lots of other problems.

1563
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Total cost of ownership
« on: June 14, 2012, 09:36:26 PM »
yeah but by all accounts the 24-120 isnt a very good lens especially vs the 24-105

perhaps doing it using the 24-70's and 70-200's

The Tamron 24-70 VC costs the same for both, doesn't it? ;)

AF-S Nikkor 24-70/2.8$1886
Canon 24-70/2.8 Mk II$2299

I picked the Canon Mk II here because the Nikkor is a more recent lens (2007) and the Canon Mk I is ~10 years old and soon to be unavailable.


I agree, equivalent lenses are a tough call.  You also have to add the cost of NX2 if in the USA, DPP is included.  There is also the cost of tethering software for Nikon thats included with Canon.  If you want a eyepiece to help block out light from the sides, thats not included.  You do get a rear  LCD cover though.  I have never removed mine, I'm not certain if you are supposed to or not.

Lightroom costs the same for both :) DPP is really primitive in comparison.

Canon doesn't need that removable rear LCD cover - the LCD cover is built into the body on their DSLRs and is not that hard to replace. On Nikon cameras, without the LCD cover, the LCD is exposed.


1564
EOS Bodies / Re: Is the 5DIII the New 50D?
« on: June 14, 2012, 06:52:02 PM »
What differentiates the 5DIII from the 50D is the target market. 

But the D600 is potentially a game changer - a FF camera for not much more than the high-end APS-C which an entry-level APS-C consumer might consider as an upgrade.

And then there is Sony's entry into this market, with the rumored A99 and its translucent mirror.

If the translucent mirror gives the A99 a frame rate approaching 10fps with 24mp at the rumored price of around $2500 - $2800, then the 5D Mark III becomes even harder to justify at $3499.

1565
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Total cost of ownership
« on: June 14, 2012, 06:39:30 PM »
5D Mark III system
Camera$3499
24-105$1149
70-200/2.8$2299
Total$6947

5D Mark III Kit$4299
70-200/2.8$2299
Total$6595

D800 system
Camera$2999
24-120$1296
70-200/2.8$2396
Total$6691

D800 + 24-120
Total$4295

1566
I wonder if the D600 will be a loss leader, simply to win back market share from Canon.

The 1xxxD line of Canon cameras is not long for this world. That price point and market segment is going to be overtaken by mirrorless cameras (MILC/EVIL). I don't expect to ever see a successor to the 1100D.

If the 7D Mark II goes full-frame then I think it is obvious that it will be called "7DX", following the naming style change from 1D/1Ds to 1DX.

1567
EOS Bodies / Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« on: June 14, 2012, 11:09:49 AM »
How long from the rumour to 'fact' - 8 years?

The 1DX is IMO a replacement for the 1D4 - the 1DS3 was just dumped with the usual executive words around it to avoid upsetting the studio shooters

Does it matter how long it took?

And do you have reason to believe that it could have been any quicker than it was?

And for what it's worth, your opinion on the positioning of the 1DX is a whole lot less valuable than any comment from a Canon exec.

1568
EOS Bodies / Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« on: June 14, 2012, 05:19:51 AM »
A few things people are talking about confuse me.

Firstly, if Canon produce a higher MP 5D then it'll have to be more expensive than the 5D3 (as not to annoy people like me who have just bought one). Then they'll have their own version of the Nikon D800 that costs twice as much so nobody will buy it.

Secondly, if Canon produces a FF camera that is cheaper than the 5D3 then it'll have to be a lower spec. Say that of the 5D2. But Canon already have a camera the same spec as the 5D2... the 5D2. So why spend millions in development of a new product that replaces one they already have when they're going to sell it at the same price?

Because the 5D Mark 2 is a 3.5 year old camera. It isn't new and it isn't compatible with Canon's newer accessories.

For example, the 5D mark 2 does not hook up to the new GPS adapter.

Secondly, the sensor is old. A newer sensor would allow PDAF with (for example) the 40/2.8 IS STM in live view.

Need I continue?

Interesting points, Dilbert but it still feels to me like a lot of work and cost to Canon to fill an awkward gap in the line up that perhaps doesn't really need filling... or at least may disappear in a year or so when the 5D3 price starts to drop or the 7D2 comes up from the rear.

Although the 5D2 is getting on a bit the IQ does still fits between the 7D and 5D3. Just my thoughts anyway and you're of course entitled to your own. I do however think compatibility with the latest accessories is a valid reason to end the line... or at least push out a firmware update.

1) How do you know the 5D3 price will drop? Afterall, the 5D2 price never dropped very much. What if in 2 years the 5D3 is still over $3000?

2) What if there is no 7D2?

Imagine that you are shopping for a camera. Amongst your choices are a $2200 camera that is over 3 years old. Scattered around it are newer cameras with more megapixels and better IQ. Just how attractive is that 3 year old camera really going to be?

Sorry to disagree with you, i feel Ayelike has some valid points and you are not addressing them :
1. I suppose he says why anyone will buy a new camera if it will have so similar specifications to 5D2 (the GPS adapter and PDAF alone are not sufficient in my view) when the competition has a new camera with better specs at lower price?

No, alone they're not sufficient rather they're low hanging fruit that are indicators of the 5D Mark II being from the previous generation of Canon DSLRs. Out with the old and in with the new.

Quote
2. Why would anyone buy a Canon 5HD at double the price of D800, or if Canon 5HD is less expensive, why is 5D3 so expensive?

In general you are discussing why someone would buy a new vs. an old Canon camera, but you are totally disregarding competition

You're the one that attached a price to a higher-MP 5D, not me.

Otherwise, the point about the competition is absolutely right.

It would seem that in the 2nd half of 2012, both Nikon and Sony are going to release new full frame cameras that will most likely be better than the 5D Mark II and either at the same price or cheaper. At which point the 5D mark II loses its competitive advantage (price) and needs to be replaced.

1569
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: So Nikon D600 is real after all
« on: June 14, 2012, 04:59:35 AM »
Looks pretty close to the specs of the 5DIII to me

i wonder what sensor? the D3x? that one had great dynamic range, much better than the 5D3, although the high ISO won't be as good as the 5D3 (from what I recall, vaguely, from DxO)


Brand-new 24mp Sony Exmor sensor, to be shared with the upcoming Sony A99 flagship. Expect D800-level performance at 24mp. This is definitely going to break new ground; can't wait to see what Canon has up its sleeve!

Yup, Canon won't be able to keep the 5DII as an "entry level" DSLR for very much longer.

1570
EOS Bodies / Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« on: June 14, 2012, 03:05:43 AM »
The only certainty is that none of us no what the hell we are talking about. If 1+ year ago someone had mentioned that the 1DsIII and 1DIV would merge into a 1DX, that person would have been called an idiot and flamed beyond belief. The armchair Canon executives can speculate all they want on what Canon will or won't do, but no one really knows. We can hope and dream, but that's it.


No, Canon publicly announced a long time ago that the 1Ds and 1D lines would merge.


October 2011 was the first time I remember seeing a press release about the merge


The merging of the 1Ds/1D lines has been expected since the 1Ds Mark II when a Canon executive in Europe commented that it was planned.

See here:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/Canon-1ds-mkii-p1.shtml
Scroll down to "A Merger".

So yes, a lot of people have been expecting it for a long time.


So it was rumour/speculation then.

Personally I have never believed that the 1DX was a sucessor to the 1DS. It doesn't come even close, good camera though it might be.


Last I checked, what comes out of the mouths of executives is generally pretty reliable and well above the rank of "rumor".

1571
EOS Bodies / Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« on: June 14, 2012, 02:45:44 AM »
The only certainty is that none of us no what the hell we are talking about. If 1+ year ago someone had mentioned that the 1DsIII and 1DIV would merge into a 1DX, that person would have been called an idiot and flamed beyond belief. The armchair Canon executives can speculate all they want on what Canon will or won't do, but no one really knows. We can hope and dream, but that's it.


No, Canon publicly announced a long time ago that the 1Ds and 1D lines would merge.


October 2011 was the first time I remember seeing a press release about the merge


The merging of the 1Ds/1D lines has been expected since the 1Ds Mark II when a Canon executive in Europe commented that it was planned.

See here:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/Canon-1ds-mkii-p1.shtml
Scroll down to "A Merger".

So yes, a lot of people have been expecting it for a long time.

1572
EOS Bodies / Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« on: June 14, 2012, 02:11:10 AM »
The only certainty is that none of us no what the hell we are talking about. If 1+ year ago someone had mentioned that the 1DsIII and 1DIV would merge into a 1DX, that person would have been called an idiot and flamed beyond belief. The armchair Canon executives can speculate all they want on what Canon will or won't do, but no one really knows. We can hope and dream, but that's it.

No, Canon publicly announced a long time ago that the 1Ds and 1D lines would merge.

I at least have been expecting it and I'm not surprised. The only thing that I wasn't expecting was the name change, but really that's nothing.

p.s no != know.

1574
EOS Bodies / Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« on: June 13, 2012, 12:48:52 PM »
APS-H is an accident of history, not a product of design. It represents the maximum sensor size that canon could manufacture at that time with a single pass. They can now do that for 35mm sensors.

accpepting that as true I have no argument there;  and the 1D/1Ds amalgamation into 1DX may certainly reflect that.   But what matters now is unrelated to manufacturing history.  what matters  is how Canon will meet the needs of the 1D4 Wildlife/BIF togs, i.e. will they provide any crop body at all, or will they force the purchase of more glass to get "more pixels on the subject" in distance limited situations.

Well look at all of the new big glass that Canon has announced and brought to market in the last 12 months. What do you think their strategy is?

1575
EOS Bodies / Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« on: June 13, 2012, 11:38:55 AM »
Let go of APS-H people ... Canon already did. Move on ...

We have direct evidence that Canon let go of is a 1D5;  we dont have any direct evidence that they let go of APS-H, or that APS-H will not emerge in another body.   While it is plausable to suggest that APS-H itself is dead (an opinion shared by the owner of this site), the current crop of rumors is conspicuously absent any clues regarding the wildlife/BIF crop body market.  Unless Canon totally abandons this market, we should see a premium crop body of some sort, either 1.6x or 1.3x, positioned somewhere between 70D and 1DX.  To me, if such a camera is a 1.6x it will be a 7D2. If it is a 1.3x it will have some other single digit showing on the front.

APS-H is an accident of history, not a product of design. It represents the maximum sensor size that canon could manufacture at that time with a single pass. They can now do that for 35mm sensors.

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