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Messages - dilbert

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46
EOS Bodies / Re: DPReview Interview with Chuck Westfall of Canon USA
« on: February 08, 2015, 12:00:03 AM »
Let me make this simple by working though it...

The 5D2/5D3 are almost identical in terms of measurable DR.

Measured by what method?
...

Why don't you write an email or letter to Chuck and ask him how he measured the DR of the 5D3 and 5Ds in order to make the statement that he did? Come back and let us know what he replies with.

He, Chuck Westfall, didn't measure anything. Canon told him to say exactly what he said, and that was "Canon is telling us......equivalent to the 5D MkIII" They also told Mike Burnhill to say exactly the same thing, and he did. I am sure every senior Canon tech around the world was told to use the same expression.

Well then why don't you ask Chuck to find out how Canon came to that conclusion?

There are two possibilities here:
(1) Canon measured the capabilities of the 5Ds/5D3 and came to the conclusion that is being mentioned by Chuck and others;
(2) Canon measured the capabilities of the 5Ds/R, have not told Chuck and others the truth and told them to spin a story that effectively means Canon is currently lying about the capabilities of the 5Ds/R.

47
EOS Bodies / Re: DPReview Interview with Chuck Westfall of Canon USA
« on: February 07, 2015, 11:17:07 PM »
Let me make this simple by working though it...

The 5D2/5D3 are almost identical in terms of measurable DR.

Measured by what method?
...

Why don't you write an email or letter to Chuck and ask him how he measured the DR of the 5D3 and 5Ds in order to make the statement that he did? Come back and let us know what he replies with.

48
EOS Bodies / Re: DPReview Interview with Chuck Westfall of Canon USA
« on: February 07, 2015, 10:06:50 PM »
Let me make this simple by working though it...

The 5D2/5D3 are almost identical in terms of measurable DR. Therefore saying that the 5Ds/R is equivalent to the 5D3 in measurable is the same as saying the 5Ds/R is equivalent to the 5D2.

The same problem that plagues the 5D2 in shadow areas (noise) also afflicts the 5D3.

The easily observable noise in shadows effectively makes shadows unusable and limits the usable DR of the camera to less than that which can be measured.

The video that comes out of the 5D2 uses the same sensor that is used for still photography. Therefore noise that is observable in video is going to be the same noise that is present in stills photography. Noise from one or the other doesn't magically disappear or change just because you shoot video or stills. The same logic applies to the 5D3.

Chuck Westfall has said that the 5Ds DR will be equivalent to that measured with the 5D3 with the benefit of clean shadows meaning the measurable DR will be usable DR rather than usable DR being less than measurable DR.

So look for a 5Ds/R with DR of between 11 and 12 stops and cleaner shadows allowing for all 11 to 12 stops being usable rather than up to 10 (which is what Gale Tattersall commented on as being the usable DR of the 5D2 and thus 5D3.) How the shadows from the 5Ds/R compare to the 6D will be interesting to see.

If there was no difference in the usable and measurable DR for the 5D3 then why did Chuck make a point of clarifying this? He's said all that needs to be said.

Now if people want to take Chuck's words and believe in fairy tales where the 5Ds/R has potentially more DR, well, I can't help you and nor can Chuck. I suspect that Chuck will be proven true when DxO test it and provide numbers to align with Chuck's comments. It is entirely possible that Canon have already used DxO kit (or their own) to come up with internal data to back up his statement. Thus far all of the released sample images align with Chuck's statements and the conclusions in this post.

49
EOS Bodies / Re: DPReview Interview with Chuck Westfall of Canon USA
« on: February 07, 2015, 08:05:26 PM »
Well if it had better dynamic range why would Chuck Westfall say it was the same as the 5D3 then? Duh.

That isn't what he said. He actually said "Canon is telling us......equivalent to the 5D MkIII", neither you nor I know what that means to shadow editability.

However if you listen to this at 1:40 http://www.fotosidan.se/cldoc/video-interview-canon-eos-5ds-and.htm that point is actually expanded on by Mike Burnhill from Canon CPS in the UK with " equivalent to the 5D MkIII in traditional measuring terms, but there's a much lower noise floor, so therefore more ability to pull out detail in the shadows and highlights"
...

The 5D2/3 are measured at having a DR of 11-12 but having a usable DR of 10 due to noise and problems with shadows.

I don't understand your point, also usable is a subjective term.

I don't like using iso 200 or any NR, others are very happy with 10,000iso with masses of NR and masked sharpening, neither is 'right' both are just subjective. I don't crop to any significant degree from my 21MP FF sensor, others are happy to post 100% crops from their crop cameras, again, purely subjective.

P.S. Just saw your reply, Tatersall was only interested in video, and the 'usable' range is his personal and subjective opinion for the output he needed, and he only measured a 5D MkII, not a 5D MkIII.

And whose subjective opinion do you think carries more weight for professionals? Yours or his?

I don't have an opinion on the DR of the 5D MkII and 5D MkIII, I don't use either. My point was the opinion, anybodies,  is subjective, not that my opinion is worth anything more or less to anybody.

But you still are not making a point, 11-12 subjective usable 10, so what?

Where is a brick wall so that I can beat my head against it.

At best all that Chuck is saying is that the usable DR of the Canon sensor is now equal to what it can be measured at, rather than being less than. His comment effectively agrees with those from Gale Tatersall with respect to historic performance.

50
EOS Bodies / Re: What's Next From Canon, NAB and Beyond
« on: February 07, 2015, 06:46:20 PM »
I really wish Canon would put out a roadmap like Intel does.  I'd like to know when the 5DIV and 6DII will be coming out.

Sonikon would like to know that, too :->.
...

The impression I get from Sony Alpha Rumors is that Sony does have its own roadmaps that do get publicized.

Hmmm...if you run across one of those publicized roadmaps, please post a link.

Well they get leaked to sonyalpharumors, don't they?

Or are you naive enough to think that Sony don't use that website as part of their underground marketing campaign?

51
EOS Bodies / Re: DPReview Interview with Chuck Westfall of Canon USA
« on: February 07, 2015, 06:44:55 PM »
Well if it had better dynamic range why would Chuck Westfall say it was the same as the 5D3 then? Duh.

That isn't what he said. He actually said "Canon is telling us......equivalent to the 5D MkIII", neither you nor I know what that means to shadow editability.

However if you listen to this at 1:40 http://www.fotosidan.se/cldoc/video-interview-canon-eos-5ds-and.htm that point is actually expanded on by Mike Burnhill from Canon CPS in the UK with " equivalent to the 5D MkIII in traditional measuring terms, but there's a much lower noise floor, so therefore more ability to pull out detail in the shadows and highlights"
...

The 5D2/3 are measured at having a DR of 11-12 but having a usable DR of 10 due to noise and problems with shadows.

I don't understand your point, also usable is a subjective term.

I don't like using iso 200 or any NR, others are very happy with 10,000iso with masses of NR and masked sharpening, neither is 'right' both are just subjective. I don't crop to any significant degree from my 21MP FF sensor, others are happy to post 100% crops from their crop cameras, again, purely subjective.

P.S. Just saw your reply, Tatersall was only interested in video, and the 'usable' range is his personal and subjective opinion for the output he needed, and he only measured a 5D MkII, not a 5D MkIII.

And whose subjective opinion do you think carries more weight for professionals? Yours or his?

52
EOS Bodies / Re: DPReview Interview with Chuck Westfall of Canon USA
« on: February 07, 2015, 05:49:11 PM »
Well if it had better dynamic range why would Chuck Westfall say it was the same as the 5D3 then? Duh.

That isn't what he said. He actually said "Canon is telling us......equivalent to the 5D MkIII", neither you nor I know what that means to shadow editability.

However if you listen to this at 1:40 http://www.fotosidan.se/cldoc/video-interview-canon-eos-5ds-and.htm that point is actually expanded on by Mike Burnhill from Canon CPS in the UK with " equivalent to the 5D MkIII in traditional measuring terms, but there's a much lower noise floor, so therefore more ability to pull out detail in the shadows and highlights"
...

The 5D2/3 are measured

Measured by whom?  Please post your source.

The comment and measurement come from one of the original Zacuto camera shootouts for video. Zacuto did the measurement, the comment came from Gale Tatersall (director of photography for "House").

53
EOS Bodies / Re: What's Next From Canon, NAB and Beyond
« on: February 07, 2015, 05:22:28 PM »
I really wish Canon would put out a roadmap like Intel does.  I'd like to know when the 5DIV and 6DII will be coming out.

Sonikon would like to know that, too :->.
...

The impression I get from Sony Alpha Rumors is that Sony does have its own roadmaps that do get publicized.

54
EOS Bodies / Re: DPReview Interview with Chuck Westfall of Canon USA
« on: February 07, 2015, 05:20:43 PM »
Well if it had better dynamic range why would Chuck Westfall say it was the same as the 5D3 then? Duh.

That isn't what he said. He actually said "Canon is telling us......equivalent to the 5D MkIII", neither you nor I know what that means to shadow editability.

However if you listen to this at 1:40 http://www.fotosidan.se/cldoc/video-interview-canon-eos-5ds-and.htm that point is actually expanded on by Mike Burnhill from Canon CPS in the UK with " equivalent to the 5D MkIII in traditional measuring terms, but there's a much lower noise floor, so therefore more ability to pull out detail in the shadows and highlights"
...

The 5D2/3 are measured at having a DR of 11-12 but having a usable DR of 10 due to noise and problems with shadows.

55
EOS Bodies / Re: DPReview Interview with Chuck Westfall of Canon USA
« on: February 07, 2015, 10:59:57 AM »
Well if it had better dynamic range why would Chuck Westfall say it was the same as the 5D3 then? Duh.

Canon has always been very conservative with their claims for new products.  I'm willing to withhold judgement until we have seen some hands-on testing.  It certainly sounds like there will not be a significant DR improvement, but there might be a small one.

Go back and look at how many times Canon has claimed "one stop better noise" and only delivered JPEG improvements.

56
EOS Bodies / Re: DPReview Interview with Chuck Westfall of Canon USA
« on: February 07, 2015, 09:24:23 AM »
The problem is, the camera raises too many questions to be slam dunk, the same way 6D did. It was a great camera that received negative PR due to missing some key features.

And yet...the 6D remains the Top Rated dSLR on Amazon, and is the second-best selling FF dSLR on Amazon (behind the 5DIII).

And what, the world revolves around what sells or doesn't sell in the USA?

Clearly the fact that Canon has delivered an EOS-M3 gives rise to the thought that there is more to selling cameras than what happens in North America.

If Amazon sales rankings were everything then there wouldn't be an M3 at all.

Amazon represents just one piece of the puzzle.

57
EOS Bodies - For Stills / POLL: 5Ds/5DsR first impressions
« on: February 06, 2015, 08:48:55 PM »
Well now that is no longer a rumor, what are people's first reactions/impressions?

58
EOS Bodies / Re: DPReview Interview with Chuck Westfall of Canon USA
« on: February 06, 2015, 08:34:56 PM »
If you mean D55  with "natural light"  - so yes the D810 outperform 5dmk3  both in color depth and resolution + color resolution, and DR  at base iso,  the new 5ds  are tuned more against D55 with steeper color filter as in Nikon

Yet another person who doesn't grasp that a sensor isn't the same as a camera system.  Actually, I don't think you're another person at all, just the same person who's never been able to grasp that simple concept, and instead repeatedly demonstrated that lack of comprehension with repetitive examples involving awnings, barbecues and sheds.

Good to see you back and commenting! Just as good to see you haven't changed your tune to one that doesn't insult people.

59
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: DP Review of New Canon 5Ds
« on: February 06, 2015, 05:27:23 PM »
So, who all are moving over to Nikon / Sony?

I'll start my move to Sony later this year.

60
Lenses / Re: 11-24 is here, with images of it compared to Nikon 14-24
« on: February 06, 2015, 04:53:49 PM »
...
Does anybody know where this promo video has been filmed? Looks like somewhere in the U.S.
A national park in Utah or Arizona?

Slot canyons (Antelope Canyon) near Page (the "$6million dollar photo" was taken at one of the locations in the video.
Also recognised Horseshoe Bend and "The Wave".

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