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Messages - dilbert

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46
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D3 No Longer in Production
« on: August 18, 2014, 10:16:31 AM »
The absence of a new lower end APS-C camera (xx0D) makes for interesting speculation that they've held off releasing a new camera because they realise there's no point in making it as the 7DII will make it seem irrelevant.

WHAT?

You realize that the best selling Canon camera is the T3.... and that it outsells every other camera Canon makes combined! This is because you can get the camera and lens CHEAP!. Apparently, for the masses, cheap beats IQ hands down...

So somehow a 7D2, probably for $2500 WITHOUT a lens is going to somehow mean that there will be no more demand for a $400 camera with lens, when price seems to be the dominant market force for the masses?

Are you sure of your logic?

You guys just don't know how to deal with a petulant, rather retarded child, do you ?

The 7DII is a big camera that is going to cost-a-lot-of-money, and the xxxD is a little camera that does not cost-as-much-money.

That's not a nice way to talk about Canon's cameras!

Let me put this another way. There's two parts to this.

To me it seems that it is quite likely the next xxxD will have the same sensor as is in the 7DII. If they bring it out before the 7DII then maybe they think it will eat away some of the 7DII sales from the people that have a 7D now and are just looking for a camera that produces better IQ (and not necessarily better fps/AF) whereas if the first camera that 7D owners see with the new sensor is the 7DII then they stand to get more carry over sales from people who see it and say "I WANT!" (or at least that's my thinking, feel free to point out where I'm wrong.) So new sensor in new 7D model, maximise profits from upgraders buying new expensive camera that they may not need but want.

Now had they of released a new xxxD camera a month or two ago with existing sensor technology and then a few months later the 7DII comes along with a new sensor then maybe they're afraid that sales of the xxxD will stall because people will wait for xxx+1D from Canon with the same upgraded sensor tech that is in the 7DII. That would also prevent them from releasing a new xxx+1D that uses the new tech in the 7DII in the first half of 2015 because it would be too soon between models. It won't necessarily matter what is new in the 7DII just that the 7DII will have all the new stuff and people will want the new stuff in cheaper bodies and may delay purchasing decisions because of it.

So a bigger gap between xxxD models (no real problem with sales) so that they can slot in the 7DII and roll forward with whatever new goodies (new DIGIC too?) come in that.

Sound like a reasonable plan or am I just crazy?

47
Canon General / Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« on: August 18, 2014, 06:06:22 AM »
Information from Japanese Canon fan girls, who are working @Canon:
...
Canon is still thinking that they do not have to produce the best and most innovative products in the low and mid price segments. Sales figures show that the market analysts are right. Canon is still the best power seller on the market. And the analysts know that in future time, the market wil not grow and other brands are coming in. Sony will be very active, maybe an 5DIII and 1DX mirrorless competitor is coming in the near future.
The slow reaction on the D7100 and the still "no reaction" on the excellent D800/810 is well calculated. No need to hurry, Canon products are still sold well. There are not many persons switching to Nikon, because the majority of Canonians will not be able to spend a lot of money on new expensive lenses. The average Canon customer will be satisfied by new Canon products, even if other brands will produce superior products.
...

Well Canon understands the situation that a lot of people are in quite well. And that's how they planned it. Trap people early and you've got them for life. I didn't expect that they'd use that as an excuse to be lazy and fail to deliver.

If Canon are going to be so complacent and consider us to be caged animals that they've already caught then I've got news for them because whilst I haven't seriously considered switching brands before, I am now.

In 12 months time either the Canon DSLR that I own will have substantially better IQ or I won't be using Canon any more.

Seriously Canon, you think you can take us consumers for granted?!

48
Pricewatch Deals / Re: Deal: Canon EOS 6D Body $1399
« on: August 18, 2014, 04:32:07 AM »
That is a good deal.  I paid $350 for a used 5D classic yesterday, mostly to play around with.  Prices usually start their end of the year drop around Labor day, so they are early this year.  Canon does not have as high of a inventory level as they had last year, but sales are much slower as well.  Their latest financial report indicates a 54 day turnover, but if sale slow, that will increase.

Ah, in that case we can easily surmise that unless a 6D/5D3 replacement is due at Photokina then the gossip of 5D3 production being stopped are very likely false. If the announcement is to be early 2015 then production wouldn't need to halt until around Christmas sometime - depending on what stock levels are like and what sales are predicted to be for the holiday season.

49
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D3 No Longer in Production
« on: August 18, 2014, 04:29:24 AM »
You're focusing on the wrong part of the problem.

You're unable to answer a direct question.  I asked one, your answer was a total fail, and now you want to change the subject to a question you think you do know the answer to, even though you're failing to answer your own question correctly.  Sigh.


Sales are declining so the challenge is to sell more units.

The best way to sell more units is to make the unit more attractive to buyers.

New features, be they software or hardware are a good way to make something more attractive to buyers.

So it sounds like you're agreeing with me that new FF cameras with new technology (at least DPAF) is a good idea for Canon's product range.

Of course new technology is a good idea...necessary, in fact.  To date, your whole schtick on these forums has been that Canon's sensors are inferior (because they offer less low ISO DR than SoNikon).  It's been thoroughly explained to you that Canon's lower low ISO DR has been a fact for years, and they're still the market leader.  You've also frequently stated that Canon's lesser low ISO DR demonstrates their failure to innovate.  DPAF has been a frequent response (by me and others) to your whining, and now all of a sudden it's your idea that DPAF is a great new technology, and I'm agreeing with you??

It's sad that you can't even get your own story straight.  Total metacognitive fail.

Why do you persist in making every conversation a personal statement about who said what when? I'm really not interested in commenting on this because it is a distraction from this thread. Your comment above has absolutely nothing to do with the 5D3 being phased out or new technology from Canon, it is all about trying to draw me into an argument or discredit me for something or another. That doesn't make for very stimulating conversation in my books but you seem to enjoy it. When will you learn that personal attacks and remarks just don't belong in this forum or on this website? And as always, you're playing the man to win, not the ball. Maybe that works for you in political discussion at work but it won't work here.

What I am interested in here (and here being this thread) is what Canon will do in terms of sensor development in both the 7DII and followup cameras. There's no DPAF in FF DSLRs yet so that is one feature that we may see debut (it is already present, to a limited extent, in some EOS C series) in new FF DSLRs in 2015.

But that's a really boring discussion to have since it is already about an existing feature and doesn't really suit a rumors thread.

Now the idea that Canon will do something multi-layerish in the 7DII is interesting and if they do then the follow on expectation will be for it to appear in FF DSLRs next year too. The absence of a new lower end APS-C camera (xx0D) makes for interesting speculation that they've held off releasing a new camera because they realise there's no point in making it as the 7DII will make it seem irrelevant. When you put all of the rumors together plus this one that Canon may have stopped production of the 5D3 already then it is a bigger picture worth looking at.

That's a discussion I'm interested in and if you're not interested in it then please don't respond to this post with questions or statements that lead in different directions (unless you want them to go unanswered.)

If you want to engage in further discussion with me in this thread then talk to me about what new things Canon could do with its sensors in the 7DII and FF DSLRs following it. If you don't want to talk to me about what new and exciting things Canon could be bringing to DSLRs then kindly find another thread or just don't reply because that's not a conversation that I'm interested in having.

Oh, I do realise that from a Canon marketing perspective they really don't want people to expect new things in a 5D4 as close as Feb/Mar 2015 as that might stop people buying a 5D3 now. That's not my problem and I'll leave it to Canon's marketing droids to continue talking about how the current lineup is already sufficient for everyone's needs.

50
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D3 No Longer in Production
« on: August 17, 2014, 05:26:50 PM »
It would not surprise me if production on the 5D MK III has stopped, and retooling is underway for the next model.  The early leaks on the 7D MK II were likely due to the same thing.  However, Best Buy is well known for declaring products as discontinued, and then correcting their system.

I'm one who believes that if a new sensor appears in the 7D MK II, and it is exceptional, Canon already knows that sales will plummet on the 5D MK III and 1D X series, and will have to come out with new models.  They also likely know what the competition is planning, and want to be ready.  A multi layer sensor that actually works will bring more accurate colors, better saturation, and a host of new problems that we have yet to discover.  It will not increase high ISO capability because of the layers, but  BSI should lower noise which may help.

If you have a bridge that you want to sell, let me know ;)

Yup, I'm in agreement with you 100%.

51
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D3 No Longer in Production
« on: August 17, 2014, 05:24:15 PM »
To roll out new sensor technology across its line of DSLRs.

You mean the rumored new sensor technology which Canon may or may not have ready for production, for which we have no evidence other than rumors and patents (most of which never become products).

So you're saying that Canon wouldn't want bring out a new sensor to try and spur sales growth across their lineup?

So you're saying that Canon's dSLR sales are suffering because of their current sensors?  Got any evidence for that?

Their sales are declining.

Read...then read again.  Maybe the highlighted part will make it clearer. Why are their sales declining? Where is your evidence that Canon's sensors are the cause?  Nikon has 'better' sensors, yet their sales are declining more

You're focusing on the wrong part of the problem.

Sales are declining so the challenge is to sell more units.

The best way to sell more units is to make the unit more attractive to buyers.

New features, be they software or hardware are a good way to make something more attractive to buyers.

Or to put it another way...

If you were right and Canon's sensor needed no new R&D then why is Canon putting money into sensor R&D with the filing of new patents? (Patents aren't free.) The most likely answer is that Canon believes it needs to improve its sensor technology as part of the overall solution and to continue to improve their cameras so that consumers see them as being attractive to buy.

Quote
Quote
Still, it would be great if Canon developed a new sensor technology that would appeal to consumers and could be rolled out to spur sales across the lineup.  Oh, wait...they did, with DPAF.

Except that none of the full frame cameras have DPAF or do you mean to say that consumers don't buy full frame DSLRs?

Read...then read again.  Maybe the highlighted part will make it clearer.  How many FF cameras have been released after DPAF was introduced in the 70D?

So it sounds like you're agreeing with me that new FF cameras with new technology (at least DPAF) is a good idea for Canon's product range.

Anyway, thank you neuro for your Canon marketing spiel about how everything is currently "good enough for everyone" and that Canon doesn't need to improve its sensors. I'm rather glad that Canon doesn't actually agree with you on this.

52
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D3 No Longer in Production
« on: August 17, 2014, 12:32:49 PM »
So you're saying that Canon wouldn't want bring out a new sensor to try and spur sales growth across their lineup?

What - you mean, follow Nikon's lead?

Not doing them much good as far as actual sales of cameras is concerned, is it?

You still don't get it. Canon is selling more cameras than Nikon and Sony right now, with its existing sensors: because most photographers don't care about, or need, the niche benefits that "superior" low ISO DR provide.

So this "improvement" would be an irrelevance to the majority, and will do bugger all to "spur sales growth".

So in order to keep sales up..
- Nikon churns through models
- Sony reinvents the camera
- Canon does nothing except take consolation in knowing it sells more units than Nikon/Sony and just watches sales decline?

Irrespective of whether or not Nikon/Sony have better or worse technology their activity keeps their models current and in the mind of consumers. Shorter product life cycles means that they can react quicker too.

Whether people like it or not, based on past releases, it is safe to expect the 5D4 out next year and not 2016/2017.

53
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D3 No Longer in Production
« on: August 17, 2014, 12:27:34 PM »
Well against this outcome there is already the rumor that Canon will launch new models early in 2015.

Why would it do that?

To roll out new sensor technology across its line of DSLRs.

Why would it want to do that?

Re-invigorate sales and capitalize on having new technology to sell as a competitive edge against others.

The information in the story doesn't jive. They wouldn't have 2.5 years of stock, especially if they were ramping up to launch and announce a 5d4. I'm not saying it's not feasible to announce another model but they won't have 2.5 years of stock on the 5d3 which is why I question the knowledge of the salesperson in the first place.

I agree.

If this is true and Canon has already manufactured 2.5 years worth of 5D3 to sell alongside a 5D4, that makes them not only incredibly vulnerable to things like a firmware bug, which would need to be fixed on ALL cameras they have in stock, but it is also a huge waste of money to warehouse and ship those cameras when something new is available.

It also does not make sense to run two camera lines that are so similar from a manufacturing perspective, for 2.5 years. It would be much more efficient to put those resources into making more 5D4s or 1Dx2s or 80D or SL2 or whatever.

I don't think it's out of the question for them to announce something new even as a "speed bump", (for example, the 1D Mark IIn,) but they won't run it alongside the existing 5D3.

Yup! Canon have decided to stop making the 5D3 then they've likely got enough in the pipeline or in stock to see out the projected sales of that camera between now and the 5D4. And judging by past performance, that only needs to be 3 to 6 months.

54
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D3 No Longer in Production
« on: August 17, 2014, 12:24:30 PM »
To roll out new sensor technology across its line of DSLRs.

You mean the rumored new sensor technology which Canon may or may not have ready for production, for which we have no evidence other than rumors and patents (most of which never become products).

So you're saying that Canon wouldn't want bring out a new sensor to try and spur sales growth across their lineup?

So you're saying that Canon's dSLR sales are suffering because of their current sensors?  Got any evidence for that?

Their sales are declining.

Quote
Still, it would be great if Canon developed a new sensor technology that would appeal to consumers and could be rolled out to spur sales across the lineup.  Oh, wait...they did, with DPAF.

Except that none of the full frame cameras have DPAF or do you mean to say that consumers don't buy full frame DSLRs?

55
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D3 No Longer in Production
« on: August 17, 2014, 10:32:24 AM »
Well against this outcome there is already the rumor that Canon will launch new models early in 2015.

Why would it do that?

To roll out new sensor technology across its line of DSLRs.

Why would it want to do that?

Re-invigorate sales and capitalize on having new technology to sell as a competitive edge against others.

The information in the story doesn't jive. They wouldn't have 2.5 years of stock, especially if they were ramping up to launch and announce a 5d4. I'm not saying it's not feasible to announce another model but they won't have 2.5 years of stock on the 5d3 which is why I question the knowledge of the salesperson in the first place.

Ok, what are the rumors?
(1) That Canon have stopped making 5D3s
(2) That there's a new sensor in the 7D2 that will be announced next month
(3) That there will be follow up new cameras announced early  next year.

What don't we know?
(1) How many cameras makes per month
(2) What sort of inventory Canon has
(3) How long Canon thinks it will take to clear that inventory

Maybe Canon have reduced the lead in manufacturing for cameras to be closer to "on demand" and what's required rather than having large amounts of stock, meaning that if they stopped making 5D3s now that they'd be out of stock by Feb-March next year (6 months).

The 5D lasted for 3 years, 5D2 for 3.5 years and the 3 year timeout on the 5D3 is next year.

56
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D3 No Longer in Production
« on: August 17, 2014, 10:25:30 AM »
To roll out new sensor technology across its line of DSLRs.

You mean the rumored new sensor technology which Canon may or may not have ready for production, for which we have no evidence other than rumors and patents (most of which never become products).

So you're saying that Canon wouldn't want bring out a new sensor to try and spur sales growth across their lineup?

57
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D3 No Longer in Production
« on: August 17, 2014, 08:33:02 AM »
Well against this outcome there is already the rumor that Canon will launch new models early in 2015.

Why would it do that?

To roll out new sensor technology across its line of DSLRs.

Why would it want to do that?

Re-invigorate sales and capitalize on having new technology to sell as a competitive edge against others.

58
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: What does Sigma do next?
« on: August 17, 2014, 08:25:48 AM »
but very much like what you do with the wildlife. This lens appeals to me.

Very kind, and I'm as happy with the lens as I was when I bought it, nearly three years ago.

I shoot shoulder-to-shoulder with an ex pro, "Canon primes or nothing" guy - including the Canon 300mm f/2.8 - and we honestly can't see the difference in end-result between his images and mine, in terms of sharpness, CA, sharpness/light fall-off or anything else lens-specific.

Which pisses him off..!

;)

His lens probably focuses slightly faster I grant you, but not by anything like a significant amount.

Interesting - and your accounting for the 120-300's AF always being spot on makes for interesting contemplation when compared with the 35 and 50.

I wonder why that is? Is it the choice of lens that they choose to impersonate to the Canon, I wonder? Or something else?

59
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: What does Sigma do next?
« on: August 16, 2014, 10:04:46 AM »
........................
But then there's a 24-70, 120-300, 120-400 and three 70-300s. None of which are particularly good (especially the 70-300s.) In that space, Canon has a 100-400 that is well north of $2000, a 70-300 consumer grade lens that isn't worth owning (even Tamron's is better) and a 70-300L somewhere between 1200 and 1500 (depending on rebates.)



I think that the new Sigma 120-300 f/2.8 is producing some great IQ images. Look at the photos of Keith_Reeder
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=1280.6225

Yes, wildlife portraits.

The sharpness drops off quite substantially at the borders making it best suited for such applications.

But given that the new design is not that old (not even 2 years), it is hard to see it being replaced anytime soon.

Its pricing does move it well out of reach of amateurs or enthusiasts.

60
Canon General / Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« on: August 16, 2014, 10:02:13 AM »
...
The original [CR2] post about no wifi was updated to read: "We’ve been told that the omission of the wifi in the 7D replacement is due to how the body is designed. The durable full metal body would make wifi transmission unreliable at best."  To me, that renders the source questionable, as there are a variety of simple engineering solutions to that problem which Canon could have implemented. 
....

Since it is so simple, why don't you demonstrate this by producing a fully fledged design where it works in the manner expected and required? I'm sure that Canon's team of engineers that develop cameras would love to get input from an expert like yourself.

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