January 30, 2015, 11:29:57 PM

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Messages - dilbert

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46
EOS Bodies / Re: 50mp Cameras Coming in March [CR1]
« on: January 25, 2015, 06:38:17 AM »
How hard can it possibly be to use a non -Bayer pixel pattern like Fuji does?  My understanding is Fuji just made the pixel pattern less simple than the little repeating 4-pixel blocks in a Bayer pattern that give us this problem with screen doors/fabric/etc., and this makes the low pass filter unnecessary. 

It seems fairly straightforward and not subject to any patent issues vs. Fuji. How could anyone patent "any pattern in the world other than Bayer"?

Note that as a result of using a non-Bayer array, Fuji's cameras have more limited 3rd party support for raw image development than do Bayer array sensors.

That is a good point. I had not thought of it. 

HOWEVER, Fuji is Fuji.  Canon is Canon. Adobe always does the quickest updates for Canon cameras.

Probably because each Canon camera is so much like the previous one in terms of IQ, there is very little for Adobe to tune!

47
EOS Bodies / Re: 50mp Cameras Coming in March [CR1]
« on: January 24, 2015, 10:59:42 PM »
...
There are an awful lot of people here who did exactly what I laid out, owned a crop camera and then got a ff one and hardly touched the crop camera again afterwards, virtually every one of them will say they see the difference in their images, if you can't in yours then that is up to you.

The only benefit of APS-C over FF is increased pixel density.

If Canon bring out a FF DSLR with similar pixel density to the 7D2, I wouldn't be surprised to see a bunch of folks sell  their (FF, APS-C) combo and buy a single new camera. The only consideration then would be if the new camera has enough FPS.

48
EOS Bodies / Re: 50mp Cameras Coming in March [CR1]
« on: January 24, 2015, 10:56:13 PM »
How hard can it possibly be to use a non -Bayer pixel pattern like Fuji does?  My understanding is Fuji just made the pixel pattern less simple than the little repeating 4-pixel blocks in a Bayer pattern that give us this problem with screen doors/fabric/etc., and this makes the low pass filter unnecessary. 

It seems fairly straightforward and not subject to any patent issues vs. Fuji. How could anyone patent "any pattern in the world other than Bayer"?

Note that as a result of using a non-Bayer array, Fuji's cameras have more limited 3rd party support for raw image development than do Bayer array sensors.

49
EOS Bodies / Re: 50mp Cameras Coming in March [CR1]
« on: January 24, 2015, 10:32:34 AM »
Quote
Quote
Dilbert says:
bad sensor bad quality bad iq
neuro says:
wrong sensor wrong quality wrong noise

there. I just saved 3 or more pages of discussion of the new sensor.

50
EOS Bodies / Re: Global Shutter Coming to Canon DSLRs? [CR1]
« on: January 22, 2015, 05:02:18 PM »
What's the point of having 30fps when you have video shot at 30fps?  Doesn't the 1DC cover this?  Or is this basically what the mirrorless cameras have, just faster? they have very fast frame bursts..  slightly confused?

Video has two disadvantages.

its resolution is usually less than still frame modes/cameras

Except that resolution is measured differently.

For example, when 1080p is played back, there are 2,073,600 pixels but they're a combination of RGB.

Your 20MP DSLR counts each R, G and B (and G ;) as individual pixels (except if you're Foveon) and does some fancy math to get 20,000,000 combinations of RGB.

If they counted video pixels like they do DSLR pixels, 1080p would be 8MP and 4k would be 33MP.

51
EOS Bodies / Re: Global Shutter Coming to Canon DSLRs? [CR1]
« on: January 22, 2015, 04:54:56 PM »
This is a step in the right direction for Canon and I'm hoping a firmware update 'might' bring this to the table.

Fujifilm just released their new line of mirrorless cameras that have ELECTRONIC AND MECHANICAL shutters. You can either use one or the other depending on shutter speed needed. Their shutter speed limit is 1/32,000 of a second.  Fuji also just provided firmware updates for two of their previous models to incorporate this new electronic shutter feature. Now, how great is that?

My point is, it can be done and is being done now with some manufacturers. The electronic shutter is totally silent. :)

Yup! And to get global shutter to work, Canon will need to do something similar because you can't move a traditional shutter fast enough for it to be global.

52
EOS Bodies / Re: High Megapixel Camera Coming in 2015 [CR3]
« on: January 22, 2015, 07:29:14 AM »
Look at all of the tests that websites such as dpreview do. Do they judge a camera's IQ by how well it focuses? Or do they judge it by how well a camera correctly captures and reproduces test patterns, colour charts, etc?

IQ is a property of the camera...

Yes, IQ is a property of the camera and lens.

Those tests to which you refer are judging the sensor, which is one of multiple components that contribute to the image quality of a camera.

IQ is a property of the sensor.

Of course you can keep your view but every camera reviewer out there on the Internet disagrees with you.

53
EOS Bodies / Re: High Megapixel Camera Coming in 2015 [CR3]
« on: January 21, 2015, 11:32:56 PM »
Image Quality is about how clean the image is, how well colours are reproduced, etc. Low noise and high DR contribute in a very direct fashion to IQ.

That is part of it.

As has been pointed out before, but really shouldn't need to be, there are other aspects to image quality too. Like if the subject is in focus. Indeed, in many circumstances, that is as important as noise. I'm not the first to say, though I will repeat - moderate noise can be reduced by software, but a subject cannot be made to be in focus with any postprocessing technique if it was not so in the original image.

Focus has no bearing on the image quality - only the clarity with which subject of the image is captured. An out of focus bird at ISO 25,600 is just as noisy (image data wise) as an infocus bird at ISO 25,600. Focus cannot correct image quality issues.
It should be obvious though that lack of focus has a negative impact to IQ  ::)

Yes - I'm sorry, Dilbert, but that is a bizarre attitude. You believe certain things intrinsic to an image constitute *image quality* but others don't.

Yes. Or at least I'm used to people directly referring to things such as low noise when they make statements like "wow, the Canon abcD has great IQ." It's generally got nothing to do with the composition of the image, what's been photographed or what is in or out of focus.

Look at all of the tests that websites such as dpreview do. Do they judge a camera's IQ by how well it focuses? Or do they judge it by how well a camera correctly captures and reproduces test patterns, colour charts, etc?

Quote
There seems no rationale for which, except maybe the ones Canon doesn't do as well as other manufcaturers (e.g. the much discussed low ISO DR) - which is at best contingent, and at worst constitutes deliberate bias. If I gave a number of images to a random selection of people, or entered them into a competition, and they were out of focus (except in the rare event it is an obviously deliberate/artistic choice), they would be rejected as poor. Because images are expected to be in focus - and I'd argue most people would understand the concept of focus without being taught. A noise free image that is out of focus is pretty easy to create, but unlikely to please many people.

On the other hand, many non-photographers don't really notice noise up to a certain point, and even those with exacting standards will tolerate it to varying degrees.

In competitions it is generally composition that determines whether an image is good or not, not the IQ.

Just having something in (or out of) focus is not enough to win a competition.

IQ is a property of the camera (and to some extent the lens due to CA, colour casts, etc.) It's got almost nothing to do with how easy it is to focus on a subject, etc.

54
EOS Bodies / Re: High Megapixel Camera Coming in 2015 [CR3]
« on: January 21, 2015, 11:23:03 PM »
Focus has no bearing on the image quality -

Here's a low ISO shot with a highly-rated 70-200/2.8 lens on a camera with close to 14 stops of DR.  By your criteria, it has excellent IQ.
....
Your criteria are just plain asinine.

Interesting piece of art.

55
EOS Bodies / Re: High Megapixel Camera Coming in 2015 [CR3]
« on: January 21, 2015, 11:20:37 PM »
I'm guessing here, but I think when he claims that focus has no bearing on image quality he is referring to the parameters that are not under user control. User can not remove noise or add DR to a sensor, but a user can change the focus. Just a guess.

The user CAN remove noise (lower ISO, ETTR, processing, stacking) and add DR (lower ISO, ETTR, stacking, HDR).

All of these "user CAN ..." result in a picture of lower IQ than would be possible with a sensor that had the same native DR range and low noise.

56
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Sigma 24-105 f/4 DG OS Discontinued
« on: January 21, 2015, 11:07:05 PM »
There was no compelling case to buy this over the Canon model (and possibly Nikon.)

This is unlike the primes (35mm, 50mm.)

They've made the right decision here.

Hope they go away and come back with a better design/lens or an improved zoom for 70-300 Art or similar.

Simply put, adding "Art" to the name isn't enough to make people buy it.

It has got to add value and be measurably better than name brand versions of the lens, not just "maybe a small bit better, here."

57
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS Rebel 750D Spec List [CR1]
« on: January 21, 2015, 10:34:59 AM »
I find it highly unlikely that the sensor will out-spec the 70D and 7DMkII as Canon is typically (and understandably) protective of higher end models. If you start to cut into higher models there is a ripple affect across the line up. Canon is way to conservative for that. The new Rebel will have a 20.2MP sensor.

Depends on whether Canon believes a new APS-C camera will sell well with a 20.2MP sensor against a competition that has 24MP, doesn't it? And if Canon doesn't believe it will then you'll see a new 750D with a 24MP sensor. 80D will most likely follow later in the year.

58
EOS Bodies / Re: High Megapixel Camera Coming in 2015 [CR3]
« on: January 21, 2015, 10:33:22 AM »
Image Quality is about how clean the image is, how well colours are reproduced, etc. Low noise and high DR contribute in a very direct fashion to IQ.

That is part of it.

As has been pointed out before, but really shouldn't need to be, there are other aspects to image quality too. Like if the subject is in focus. Indeed, in many circumstances, that is as important as noise. I'm not the first to say, though I will repeat - moderate noise can be reduced by software, but a subject cannot be made to be in focus with any postprocessing technique if it was not so in the original image.

Focus has no bearing on the image quality - only the clarity with which subject of the image is captured. An out of focus bird at ISO 25,600 is just as noisy (image data wise) as an infocus bird at ISO 25,600. Focus cannot correct image quality issues.

59
Software & Accessories / Re: 10 bit graphics card ??
« on: January 21, 2015, 10:28:48 AM »
...
Any monitor which is speced as 1 billion colors is supporting 10bit. But be careful, some display like several models from Dell just have internal 10bit support and use a 10bit look up table for color correction but not receiving 10bit color.

The other part of that is that unless you're doing HDMI 2.X at both the card and monitor then you're not getting 10bit color.

60
Software & Accessories / Re: 10 bit graphics card ??
« on: January 21, 2015, 09:39:14 AM »
You do know that there is only *1* 10bit image editing tool, don't you?

And that it is Photoshop?

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