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Messages - privatebydesign

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451
Reviews / Re: DxO reviews Sony A7s: king of low light photography?
« on: August 09, 2014, 11:45:58 AM »
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If you look at any studio shots you will notice that there are dark sections as well as bright sections. In those darker areas it is desirable for them to both be dark and have detail. Sony's sensor makes it easier to work with detail in those darker areas as well as in the highlights.

Er, you can do that effortlessly with a Canon by ETTR and dropping the shadows in post, Sporgon is right, studio shooters have 100% control of DR and have no excuses for needing to lift anything.

Ah, so what you're saying is that if I'm in a studio using Canon and light a scene such that it is in the top 8 stops then I can shift it back down in post to get shadow detail? Whereas with Exmor based sensors, I don't need to do that ETTR to get shadow detail plus I'm not limited to 8 stops, I've got 14.

No, what I am saying is if you are a studio shooter and very subtle dark tones are your look, you can achieve equally good results from either Canon or Nikon if you know what you are doing. Just like I said, take a look at Joel Grimes' work, virtually all the subject images are shot with a 5D MkIII and he has masses of dark detail.

You contrive artificial situations to "prove" Nikon is vastly superior, Exmor sensors have more dynamic range than Canon sensors, on that we all agree, but that doesn't stop countless pros shooting every day with Canon cameras, why?

452
Reviews / Re: DxO reviews Sony A7s: king of low light photography?
« on: August 09, 2014, 09:27:29 AM »
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So, the thing you might be missing...is that HDR isn't difficult these days. If you need more DR, take an extra frame or two (or 14). That works in every camera, regardless of it's sensor capabilities.
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HDR is only useful where you can use a shutter speed of > 1 second because otherwise the inter-frame changes make it look crap. Think wind blowing in trees, moving water, etc.

That assumes landscapes. There are plenty of still-life use cases...such as PBD's interior design scene, or my description of the WWII plane interior. You could expose for as long as you wanted with such a scene, as there are no trees, or flowing water, etc. Most of the 15-frame HDR images I've seen were still scenes, usually interiors of something or some kind.

Talking of landscape, I find it really really strange that the antagonist in this thread is clearly a studio photographer where you have full control over DR, in fact for a studio photographer DR is the last of your worries, assuming that is, that you are competent in studio set up. So I just don't see why this guy was banging on and on about DR.

If you look at any studio shots you will notice that there are dark sections as well as bright sections. In those darker areas it is desirable for them to both be dark and have detail. Sony's sensor makes it easier to work with detail in those darker areas as well as in the highlights.

Er, you can do that effortlessly with a Canon by ETTR and dropping the shadows in post, Sporgon is right, studio shooters have 100% control of DR and have no excuses for needing to lift anything.

P.S. Go look at Joel Grimes work, very gritty, lots of deep dark shadows and he is a stickler for sharpness and detail, and he uses a 5D MkIII. He shoots for very high profile companies and campaigns too.

453
Reviews / Re: DxO reviews Sony A7s: king of low light photography?
« on: August 09, 2014, 08:54:22 AM »
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So, the thing you might be missing...is that HDR isn't difficult these days. If you need more DR, take an extra frame or two (or 14). That works in every camera, regardless of it's sensor capabilities.
...

HDR is only useful where you can use a shutter speed of > 1 second because otherwise the inter-frame changes make it look crap. Think wind blowing in trees, moving water, etc.

That assumes landscapes. There are plenty of still-life use cases...such as PBD's interior design scene, or my description of the WWII plane interior. You could expose for as long as you wanted with such a scene, as there are no trees, or flowing water, etc. Most of the 15-frame HDR images I've seen were still scenes, usually interiors of something or some kind.

This statement "HDR is only useful where you can use a shutter speed of > 1 second" does not assume landscape. It applies universally - even in the case of your plane interior because you mention:

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They don't really look like HDR...but they have fine nuances of excellent, crisp detail in areas that you simply can't get with 14 stops, or even 16 stops (like the interior of an old WWII plane full of ultra deep shadows, and a bright sunlit sky with puffy clouds outside.)
...

wind moves puffy clouds. If it is windy then you'll have motion to deal with in the windows when HDR'ing.

All that I can say is for you to write such comments then you're looking at what's shown on the web and not doing it yourself (or in challenging conditions.)

HDR is not a universal solution for the problem of lack of wide DR from a sensor. It works in a select few situations but in many others it does not. Dealing with HDR is not the same as your astrophotography. HDR is a last resort mechanism not a primary tool. You can't use HDR to shoot kids running around inside.

Well I don't find dealing with clouds or waves onerous, I shoot a lot of blowing foliage too, I click the "Remove Ghosts" option and pick a key frame, and done. You need to get out and shoot (and post process) more.

P.S. You might notice the wispy clouds in the second image I posted, that is a seven image HDR and they are sharp.

454
Reviews / Re: DxO reviews Sony A7s: king of low light photography?
« on: August 09, 2014, 01:03:36 AM »

I like the second photo. (I just wish it wasn't a microscopic little thumbnail...so sad, that...)

Just click on it and it goes to the 750px version, you can do it to them all at the same time too.

As for the disappearing Dean, I suspect either his mum came home and sent him to bed, or he was so shocked that somebody would dare to show him ten images (that is all one post allows) that were taken with a Canon that could not be taken with the same IQ with a Nikon his tears killed his computer (or he threw it at the wall).

They aren't even particularly good examples, just ones I had on my laptop. The fourth image is one i like a lot from a technical standpoint, it is a single exposure but the shadow detail to the right of the door is very good, it printed big extremely well.

I refer you to the fact that my account was deleted by the admin.

It's a shame you felt the need to go to a place where you say my mum came home and sent me to bed  ;D

I was hoping to learn about your 17 mm tilt shift actually, I've never used one.

But as you seem to be a sarcastic p**** like Neuro, maybe it's for the best.

Where the f*** are good manners round here?

So your mum did come home and send you to bed, you are now on your tablet under the sheets with a flashlight :-)

It was a joke, a lighthearted one from one Brit to another, don't walk around with such a chip on your shoulder, you are the one that came out fighting, twice, I wasn't shooting I was just playing, can't you tell the difference anymore?

There are many threads here on CR about tilt shift lenses, as well as thousands out there on Luminous Landscapes, Northlight Images, Cambridge In Color, You Tube etc etc.

But the Canon 17TS-E is unique in the images it can make, maybe not very visible on in thread images, but if you look at the LL article I linked to you will see the dramatic difference on closer inspection or big prints. Canon do make other unmatched lenses (like the 65MP-E) and whilst these may only appeal or be relevant to small niche groups, don't think for one second a D810 can do anything a 5D MkIII can (actually I am still on 1Ds MkIII's), it can't. I have very specific reasons to accept the lesser DR capabilities of my camera for several other system wide advantages, for instance have you used the RT flash system in earnest? It truthfully does make the CLS system look like the prehistoric joke optical triggering is.

Now don't let your mum catch you or she will take the tablet and ground you  ;D

P.S. The mod probably killed you for doing things like calling people a sarcastic prick, just a thought.

455
Reviews / Re: DxO reviews Sony A7s: king of low light photography?
« on: August 09, 2014, 12:39:43 AM »

I like the second photo. (I just wish it wasn't a microscopic little thumbnail...so sad, that...)

Just click on it and it goes to the 750px version, you can do it to them all at the same time too.

As for the disappearing Dean, I suspect either his mum came home and sent him to bed, or he was so shocked that somebody would dare to show him ten images (that is all one post allows) that were taken with a Canon that could not be taken with the same IQ with a Nikon his tears killed his computer (or he threw it at the wall).

They aren't even particularly good examples, just ones I had on my laptop. The fourth image is one i like a lot from a technical standpoint, it is a single exposure but the shadow detail to the right of the door is very good, it printed big extremely well.

456
Reviews / Re: DxO reviews Sony A7s: king of low light photography?
« on: August 09, 2014, 12:27:00 AM »


Why can't you have Nikon prints stand up to close scrutiny? What are you basing that on?

What is the 5D Mk3doing here that a Nikon can't do exactly?

I'm happy to be told what I'm missing here.

The 17TS-E is a tilt and shift lens, it is unequaled by any other lens for the 135 and smaller formats, there are one or two very expensive options in bigger formats. Nobody but Canon makes a lens that can do what I did in those images in 135, nobody. It is all about the fov and the control of the plane of dof, Nikon do not make a lens that comes close to the Canon 17TS-E in IQ or focal length, in fact all the Nikon PC-E's are pretty much so outclassed by the Canon versions as to negate pretty much any sensor advantage in this specific application.

You could emulate some of the shots that I only used shift on with the Nikon 14 or 14-24, but you would have to do severe cropping to end up with the same framing, thus negating your pixel numbers. DR is an easy workaround when I am limited, and that is not often, and blending is automatic so blending two, as opposed to three shots  (or five instead of seven) makes no difference. You cannot emulate tilt, in close scrutiny or big prints the Nikon would lose focus and detail, the Canon gives me complete control over where and what is critically sharp. Look at the section "Another Example" here http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/nikon_24_pc.shtml

That is what you are missing here.

457
Reviews / Re: DxO reviews Sony A7s: king of low light photography?
« on: August 08, 2014, 11:56:03 PM »
What can a 5D Mk3 do that a D800/810 can’t do better?

For me, personally, this.

All taken with a 17 TS-E, a lens I use very heavily, and all with some degree of tilt and or shift applied. Oh and many of my images contain vastly more DR than any current sensor, even the mighty Exmor, can record in a single shot. For much of my paid work another 2-3 stops of DR would make not one iota of difference, I'd still have to bracket the heck out of the scene.

You cannot take any of these images, and have them stand up to as close scrutiny or large prints with a Nikon.

458
Business of Photography/Videography / Re: Copyright
« on: August 08, 2014, 08:22:42 PM »
Neuro,

Only if the monkey was on an elevated platform and the background was lite by lights from the back of that platform as well as other places. :-)

Vavebounce,

You can't delete the first post in a thread, so it is mod only. But it was easy to miss so don't feel bad.

459
Business of Photography/Videography / Re: Copyright
« on: August 08, 2014, 07:36:04 PM »
Yes it has been asked. http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=22140.0

Besides, nobody is saying the monkey does, well nobody with any idea of how copyright works, the argument is that the camera owner does not own it.

460
Animal Kingdom / Re: Unexpected Events
« on: August 07, 2014, 01:23:26 AM »
I was walking along the beach, with all the fog around and this flock of birds came out of the Fog, i just had time to take these three shots, i had no time to check or change any of the setting.....

Hey there Dave,

That reminded me of the greatest photo op I ever had where I didn't have a camera! But it was so cool I didn't care, it was a moment like Sean Penn in Water Mitty, the moment was so good I just wanted to enjoy it myself.

I was sailing South from Langkawi around Singapore to Koh Samui off Thailand. Anyway, I was in the Malacca Straits, it was dawn and the sun was just breaking over the fog, I was alone at the helm and the water was deathly calm and there was total silence, to my left occasionally poking though the shrouding fog was the the Floating Mosque, visibility to my South, West and North was perfect and went for miles, but it was less than a mile to the edge of the fog bank to my East, I saw a speck to my left, then another, then more and more until the the entire fog bank resembled a time lapse of grass growing! They were small fishing boats racing out from the coast through the fog to the fishing grounds not too far offshore. Those first few seconds, before I could hear them, the light and totally calm water the sun and the mosque burnt an image into my head I will never forget.

The scene was utterly breathtaking, that was my one and only Sean Penn moment, thanks for the reminding me :-)

461
Post Processing / Re: Smart objects
« on: August 06, 2014, 11:03:52 PM »
No, Smart Objects don't give you any more DR, they just give you more control over the DR you have.

They get very complicated when you start nesting Smart Objects and there are many limitations to using them in PS, but if you are not sure how you want to work a file, or if you want to play with multiple RAW edits it is very effective.

PS CC has ACR as a filter, and the truth is it works better and faster than multiple Smart Objects layers most of the time.

462
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: DXO uh-oh?
« on: August 06, 2014, 12:29:12 AM »
I believe they use a benchmarking system. When a camera sets a new benchmark then it re-baselines the camera score database. If a camera sensor sets a new benchmark in all their metrics then I believe it will get a score of 100 and bump all the other cameras down to lower scores. I might be wrong, but I think that's how it works.

No that is not correct. The score is not limited to 100, cameras will score more than 100 and when they do it just means it is "better" than one that scored less. A difference of 5 points equals approximately 1/3 stop, so a camera scoring 102 is 1/3 stop "better" than one that scores 97.

But as they won't tell us how they equate those 5 points, or 1/3 stop, it makes it all pointless.

463
Site Information / Re: Critiques
« on: August 05, 2014, 11:26:57 PM »
Whilst I like the idea, it never works. Anybody that offers honest critiques, basically anything other than "fantastic shot _____" or "really nice, what lens/aperture/program mode/shutter speed did you use?", gets pilloried by the posters fan base.

Few want a true critique, most want affirmation of the purchasing decisions, and I see nothing wrong with that in its place, but it leads to boring well done, nice shot style threads.

464
Reviews / Re: DxO reviews Sony A7s: king of low light photography?
« on: August 05, 2014, 01:37:15 AM »
So you have harped on about how there is no need to have cameras with high DR because this isn't capable of it or that isn't capable of it but yet your entire workflow is in 16bit.

In various other threads you've commented that Sony are claiming too many stops of DR for the number of bits and since you're working with a 16bit workflow obviously you think you need more than 7 or 8 bits of IQ and since 1 bit equals 1 stop of DR, 7 to 8 stops of DR is not enough for you.

Elsewhere in earlier comments in this thread you've stated that print only requires 7 or 8 stops of DR.

Something doesn't add up here. You're saying that printing only delivers 7 or 8 stops of DR yet your workflow supports 16. Why not just work in an 8 bit workspace since that is all that your printing can deliver?

It is about tonality and the subtleties of moving them around to best be represented in a smaller space. Try working an 8 bit file with large areas of subtle tones, like a blue sky, without getting posterization, or printing deep shadow detail without a curves layer to lift those few darkest tones up a touch, now do that to a 16 bit file with 14 bit information and you can push and pull it where you want with no ill effects, render that edit as an 8 bit jpeg and you are golden, send the edited 16 bit file to a printer in 16 bit or 8 bit and you have no posterization, superb tonal control in B&W etc etc.

What you are arguing is if you can't view more than 6-8 stops of DR in a print then there is no point in capturing it, that is patently not true. You capture as many stops of DR as you want and then choose where to put each of those stops in your output.

It is called photography.

465
Landscape / Re: give us a wave
« on: August 05, 2014, 01:10:00 AM »
Not water I'd care to find myself in...

That looks like Sombrero, and nobody goes to Sombrero! Maybe another Caribbean Atlantic coast?

North east Curacao

Right angle, but not really an Atlantic coast! Never got to the ABC's, only to Trinidad and Tobago and St Vincent and the Grenadines that far South.


Impressive call nonetheless.

I've not been to A nor B, but can't recommend C unless you're a diver. The water is phenomenal, but the land is arid (except the north east), desolate, and littered with half-completed structures. It may be worth going to if it's not a pain, but I am from California and I won't be back unless with dive buddies.

Oh yes, I am a diver. I had a very interesting though not very varied diving career mostly in the Northern Caribbean. Saba has the best diving I did in the Caribbean, though I used to take trips out to Sombrero which is also very good if you can dodge the swell as it is so exposed , I believe I worked for the only company that ever ran trips out there and the Anguilla government has pretty much shut that down now.

I have thread the "eye of the needle" and done the swim through on Shark Shoal at 180', those were the days!

If I lived on the West Coast nothing would bring me East to dive, not the Caribbean, not the Red Sea, nothing, it would have to be your local cold water, though I am not a cold water diver, and all the Pacific opportunities going round to Indonesia.

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