Messages

91

EOS Bodies - For Video / Re: Resolution Comparison: 5D Mark III vs. Nikon D800

« on: July 23, 2012, 06:40:16 PM »

Can you re-title the topic to VIDEO resolution comparison?

Sure - I've tried. I thought that posting in the "EOS Bodies - For Video" section would make that redundant, but I didn't think about the topic showing up on the side-bar. Thanks for the suggestion.

92

EOS Bodies - For Video / Video Resolution Comparison: 5D Mark III vs. Nikon D800

« on: July 23, 2012, 03:53:45 PM »

A colleague lent me his new Nikon D800, so I shot video of my resolution chart with it to compare to my (okay, my wife's) 5D Mark III.

https://vimeo.com/46242792

My take is that there are some aspects of the D800 video PQ that make it appear sharper, but on closer inspection, its true resolution looks to be perhaps 50 lines or so more than the 5D Mark III? The aliasing issues are clear, even (especially?) on the resolution chart. As with the 5D Mark III, the D800 is a nice cam.

Oddly, the HDMI output appeared to switch to 720p when I hit record. Perhaps I didn't have a setting right, as I thought it was supposed to have "clean" (full resolution) output via HDMI.

Attached is a frame grab of the 200% zoom with light sharpening.

93

EOS Bodies - For Video / Re: Friends, help me choose a better one! Thanks

« on: July 21, 2012, 10:07:52 AM »

I agree with your friend. The image from the T4i appears to be no better than the T3i (and no worse, either). If this is your primary concern - which it sounds like it is - then I think your friend's advice to go for the lower price camera body and spend some money on a good lens makes a lot of sense. I am also assuming that your friend with whom you have discussed this knows more about your preferences and how you intend to use the camera than I, as a complete stranger, can understand from one paragraph. As you can read in other threads here, my advice could be different if you happen to really want a touch screen and autofocus (and perhaps have other preferences related to still photos). Regardless, the T3i is an excellent camera to start making your own films.

94

EOS Bodies - For Video / Re: 60D vs. 650D

« on: July 18, 2012, 08:09:36 PM »

Videoshooter is right. This is a fair comparison and I originally overstated the difference when I said "apples to oranges." Indeed, when I bought my 600D, I weighed it against the 60D. For video, it has the same picture quality. As wickedwombat points out, the focusing points (more on the 60D) could be an issue for stills.

As for the incremental ISO points, this is actually a reasonably big deal for video. The best ISO's for video are 160, 320, 640, and 1250. The 60D has these, but the 600D only has these with Magic Lantern. With Magic Lantern, you are only left with the 9 focus points as the advantage. With the 600D, I think the 3x zoom to fix moire in video outweighs this. As pointed out, you can take the savings and buy a good lens or two, which will last longer than the camera and will be money well spent when you decide to upgrade the body in a couple of years (or less).

95

EOS Bodies - For Video / Re: 60D vs. 650D

« on: July 14, 2012, 11:22:54 PM »

First, I will assume that you actually mean 60D, instead of 600D (aka Rebel T3i). This is somewhat of an apples to oranges comparison, as the 60D is a prosumer camera, while the 650D is a consumer camera (and I say that with all due respect for its capabilities). I personally have a 600D (and a 550D and a 5D Mark III). The 60D's build quality is said to be quite a bit superior to that of the 600D or 650D. The image sensor in the 60D is the same as the 600D and the image quality from the 650D appears to me (from posted video samples) to be no better than the 600D (or 60D).

Second, it appears to me that the new technologies in the 650D are the video auto focus and touch screen. If these are things that you really want, then I would say that the 650D is a step forward. I suggest searching Vimeo for some videos of the autofocus in action to make sure it works as you would need it.

For me, I don't consider the 650D a step forward. Indeed, for me it is a bit of a step backward. I say this because Canon did not put one of the 600D's key features on the 650D: 3x digital zoom. All DSLR's suffer from aliasing and moire issues. Canon almost completely eliminated it in the 5D Mark III. But, the 600D, 650D, and 60D all have it. But, with the 3x zoom feature on the 600D, you can nearly eliminate aliasing/moire. See https://vimeo.com/35111205. Again, the 650D does not have this feature and the 60D does not have this feature either.

Worse, I've not seen any evidence that Canon has made the 650D less noisy (i.e., better in low light). Therefore, I see no new technology that really results in better video quality over the 600D (which has the same video quality as the 60D).

Finally, if you are not aware of Magic Lantern, you should look it up. It is a very useful third-party firmware that can be installed on both the 60D and 600D today. Magic Lantern has many features that are very useful for video (and many for stills, especially timelapse). It is not yet available for the 650D.

So, if you weren't already considering the 600D/T3i vs. the 650D/T4i and 60D, I suggest that you add the 600D/T3i to your list. Good luck as you do your research and decide on which of these great DSLR's work for you.

96

EOS Bodies - For Video / Re: Insane video noise canon 5d mark iii

« on: July 13, 2012, 10:34:20 AM »

I suggest shooting at ISO 160 (and its multiples). Noise is about as bad as it gets at low ISO's at ISO 125. See this video that compares noise at different ISO's for the Mark III: https://vimeo.com/39581579

As Policar points out, this is normal and, at reasonable exposures and bringing back the contrast in post, the noise effectively disappears. Finally, I would make sure that HTP is off, which it probably is if you're shooting at ISO 125.

97

EOS Bodies - For Video / Re: How to Live - 5D3 short

« on: June 29, 2012, 10:20:16 AM »

John - I'm sure you're very proud of this, as you should be. It is very well done all around. The pacing of the editing was excellent and the shots were great. I really like how you seemlessly mixed things like fractals and space with live action.

Of course, it would have been much better if the 5D3 weren't so soft! 

[Since sarcasm is hit or miss in written form, let me be clear that the last comment was totally sarcastic - the 5D3 shots were beautiful.]

98

EOS Bodies - For Video / Re: t4i - lack of samples

« on: June 25, 2012, 09:56:37 AM »

This camera has been out for a few weeks now and I am still on the fence.  I have found mainly a handful of sample videos, none of the particularly revealing or useful.  I am a Rebel Xsi owner who is impressed already with image quality so my sole criterion is how well the video stacks up.  I am waiting for better videos.  I have a couple lenses which is why I want to stick with Canon, but one is full frame and the other is the EF-S so it is not a large loss if I switch to a different system - I just want a video/still camera that does both well.  I have no upgraded in 4 years so I want to make sure the next purchase will do well for the next 4.  Is there anyone who has used the video and liked the quality of video?  I have yet to see a video with the 40 mmm stm in action.

There is another thread that shows one short example of T4i footage. To me, it appeared to be no better than the T3i, which I have. I really like the T3i and mainly use it for video. Whether the T4i is a significant upgrade vs. the T3i in terms of stills, I don't have any idea. Having said that, I doubt you can go too wrong with the T4i. My main reservation regarding video and the T4i is that it suffers from moire and aliasing, as does the T3i and T2i. However, with the T3i, there is at least a way to shoot it so that you don't have moire, by using the 3x zoom feature. Neither the T2i nor the T4i have this feature.

But, you could, for around $150, try out the T4i and 40mm lens yourself. Check http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/canon/cameras. I haven't used them, but have heard and read good things about them and plan to use them in the near future. Alternatively, order from a reputable dealer, such as B&H, that has a reasonable return policy.

99

EOS Bodies - For Video / Re: 650D (T4i) or 600D (T3i)

« on: June 20, 2012, 02:50:42 PM »

From a video point of view I would be interested in if the new 650D is any cleaner in the shadows and at higher ISO's.  The Q-scale function also interests me (user set video bitrate)
...
I don't run ML.  Camera does all I need without it, so for me that wouldn't be a deal breaker.

Paul - You make very good points. The Q-scale is interesting. Since you mentioned that you don't use ML, you might or might not already know this: ML allows you to set a higher (or lower) bitrate on the 600D/T3i (which sounds like the Q-scale).

By chance, I was experimenting with this recently and it works - though not without some qualifications. The ML bitrate multiplier has been reliable for me at 1.4x (with audio on). Of course, this comes with a resulting larger file per minute of video. With audio disabled, I was able to go up to 2.3x reliably. I can achieve 3.0x in a low dynamic range environment (even with audio). Of course, the benefits of a higher bit rate are also less apparent in the latter case.

The highest (video-only) resulting average bit rate that I was able to achieve without the camera stopping the recording was a little north of 100 Mbps. Again, I shot at 3.0x indoors, but the resulting bitrate in that situation was only around 70 Mbps. Quite nice resulting picture, though not night and day compared to 1.0x. And, a test at 0.2x at 7 kbps was completely watchable, though I wouldn't ever use it for a serious video. Of course, the bit rate can't solve the 600D's moire/aliasing problems nor can it increase the actual resolution. But, it does what it does.

I mention this in case you tried ML a long time ago and might consider it again, given your interest in Q-scale. The latest version (from December) has been very stable on my 600D.

100

EOS Bodies - For Video / Re: 650D (T4i) or 600D (T3i)

« on: June 16, 2012, 09:38:21 AM »

Now that it is confirmed that the 650D/T4i cannot do 3x-10x zoom and that it suffers from as much moire/aliasing as the T2i and T3i, I see no reason for anyone interested in video to buy the T4i UNLESS the autofocus is a key feature for them. Plus, Magic Lantern already works on the T3i.

If my I needed to replace my T3i or T2i, I would get another T3i.

I hope that the 7D or 60D replacements improve on the moire/aliasing. Until then, the T3i is the camera to beat, in my opinion.

101

EOS Bodies - For Video / Re: 650D (T4i) or 600D (T3i)

« on: June 11, 2012, 10:37:17 AM »

Ben,

I'll assume that auto focus during video isn't that big of a deal to you. If it is, then read no further and just buy the 650D, since the 600D doesn't have it.

I have a 600D/T3i. As you mention, the 3x zoom is a great feature of the 600D and I still have not found out whether the 650D has it. If the 650D suffers from the same moire/aliasing issues as the 550D and 600D and doesn't have the 3x-10x zoom, then the 600D is a clear winner to me, since the 3x function also serves to eliminate moire on the 600D, without a loss in resolution.

If the 650D has less moire issues than the 600D and better ISO performance, then I'd opt for the 650D. However, I suspect that the 650D does not significantly improve on moire/aliasing or ISO performance, or else this probably would have been trumpeted by Canon. If you can wait, then wait for some people to do hands-on tests of the video with it.

Finally, a very large advantage of the 600D over the 650D right now is the ability to install Magic Lantern's firmware upgrade that gives a lot of very nice video features.

102

EOS Bodies - For Video / Re: Philip Bloom Comparison 5d3 vs D800 vs D4

« on: May 23, 2012, 04:30:46 PM »

the problem is that the killer dslr doesn't even had 4:2:2 output and the codecs fall appart easily with motion, and additionally it's Full1080p mode doesn't resolve detail to be called true 1080. this makes the D800 the better "killer" IMO for a lot of applications.

psolberg - Do you have a link to where someone has tested or established the actual video resolution of the D800? I've done shot my own test charts with the 5D3, but I've not yet seen the same done with a D800.

103

EOS Bodies - For Video / Re: Sharpening 5D Mk III - red problem and solution

« on: May 18, 2012, 03:47:47 PM »

Man it's very hard to tell the difference between those.  Are the supposed artifacts on top and bottom of the label or on the left and right?

I agree, especially on the Vimeo video. But it is clear on my full resolution previews from my NLE timeline. Look at the 200% zoom screen capture at full resolution (i.e., open the attachment and view at 100%). It is all over the label on the far left, to a lesser extent on the unsharpened footage second to left, and not an issue on sharpened and chrom blurred shot on the far right. Look at the label wherever the red borders another color.

You can only really sharpen the footage a very minimal amount, artificial sharpening can make any image look like crap if turn it up too far.

Agreed. Although, if you watch the video, do you think I've sharpened too much? This is actually sharpened a bit more than I NORMALLY do, but not more than I've EVER done - and I understand well the points you make that too much sharpening can give a video a, well, video look. Thus, I'm generally conservative with my sharpening, which is why I didn't like the effect it had on red.

My point isn't about sharpening in general. It is about sharpening with red objects. I think you'll find wide agreement that sharpening, in general, is beneficial to 5D3 footage -- I don't think I'm out on a limb on this one. As I said in the video, ANY amount of sharpening that I would add with a shot with red in it would reveal these artifacts of the red object.

I'm not claiming any dificiency in 5D3 footage. Indeed, the chroma blur trick probably is as effective on any other footage for which this issue arises. I would say, if you don't find this to be an issue in your footage, then ignore the chroma blur trick. For those that do, I offer this tip that I've found to work for me.

104

EOS Bodies - For Video / Re: Sharpening 5D Mk III - red problem and solution

« on: May 17, 2012, 05:43:54 PM »

Here's a shot at normal resolution, which shows that the artifacts are visible, even without zooming in.

105

EOS Bodies - For Video / Sharpening 5D Mk III - red problem and solution

« on: May 17, 2012, 05:42:40 PM »

It is well known that video from the 5D3 benefits from sharpening. However, I was noticing some rather unattractive artifacts when sharpening shots with red in them. The red would pixelate or "ring" at the borders with other colors.

The solution I've found (that others might already know about) is to use a chroma blur filter prior to sharpening.

The frame grabs below show what is going on. You can check out my short video about this, if you're interested. Any comments or other tips to deal with this are appreciated.

https://vimeo.com/42314148