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Messages - Sycotek

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61
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue
« on: July 18, 2012, 11:56:43 PM »
I've been having focus issues with the 1D X in both AI Servo and one shot.

I also had similar experiences in full daylight as the OP with the camera refusing to focus at all. In my case, I was using a 70-200 2.8IS II L. A few times when I would point the camera to an object at infinity. The focus would rack to the nearest distance and stop. This was in sing;e shot AF. It wouldn't hunt - it would just go totally out of focus. Releasing and pressing AF wouldn't do anything - the camera would not try to focus again. The only ay I could get it to acquire focus was to manually focus the lens (to get it at least somewhat sharp), then the AF would begin working again.

Below is one example of the camera missing focus from a wedding I shot this past weekend. An assistant was holding a 600EX-RT behind the couple for backlighting. This was in one shot mode with single AF point and four expansion points. This is a screen grab from the file in DPP so the active (and helper) focus point can be seen. As you can see, there is lots of contrast for the main focus point, as well as good contrast under the four expansion points yet it totally missed.

Here's the OOF example from the wedding:

What is your serial number start with (first 4 digits) we can possible compare or pm me the full one and ill send you mine

62
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue
« on: July 18, 2012, 11:53:10 PM »
Although I'm having a problem with the 1D X not storing AFMA settings, AI Servo focusing in low light seems fine.  ISO 4000 shot, screenshot of 50% view in DPP.

Your sample has plenty of contrast :) that wouldn't effect the af - I actually ran a second set of controlled issues for canon:

---

Configuration:

-Using the same scene as the original controlled data (with the toy from the first set) but adding another room light to make it easier on the camera. 2 lights this time, no-where near pushing the AF’s limits (I didn’t have a light meter on me so couldn’t confirm exact EV – but we know single shot stuffs at exactly -2ev and one shot AF here was nice and snappy)

-One Shot under all tests/af modes snapped to focus instantly – no re-racking, no hesitation.

-I had to set 1st frame AF release to equal priority (2nd frame is still on its default equal priority) as it wouldn’t fire due to not being able to get focus of the subject with 1st frame focus priority.
-I had my Auntie wear something blue/red/white – which would provide ample contrast (so we can’t blame it on being black/grey etc)

-This was shot under a custom CASE 4 with tracking sensitivity set to -2 – it was retested with standard CASE 1 with no difference in the results.

Testing Methodology:

-4 one shot images taken at set markers on the ground followed by a series of Ai Servo images, this was done for manual af point (one point), 4point af expansion and 12 point - zone af. I attempted this with 61 points but it would lock on the wall regardless of where I put the initial AF point marker in Ai Servo mode. The images below are taken from DPP with AF point on and info in the middle (information exposed from the Ai Servo shot). The comparison Ai Servo image was use where my Auntie crossed over near or on the single shot reference image – She was walking a moderate pace for the Ai Servo shots.

Quick Comparison:

First Frame, Manual AF Point (One Point)

-One Shot on the left, Ai Servo on the Right.
-1/100, f4, iso 25K

Mid Frame, Manual AF Point (One Point)

-One Shot on the left, Ai Servo on the Right.
-1/100, f4, iso 25K

End Frame, Manual AF Point (One Point)

-One Shot on the left, Ai Servo on the Right.
-1/80, f4, iso 25K

Example of what happens when you can’t lock onto the target on first frame – Manual AF Point (On Point)


So I moved on to AF Expansion – for this I targeted the t-shirt hoping it would have a chance with the 4 extra points to lock onto face and shoulders.

First Frame, 4 point AF expansion:

-One Shot on the left, Ai Servo on the Right.
-1/100, f4, iso 25K

Mid Frame, 4 point AF expansion:

-One Shot on the left, Ai Servo on the Right.
-1/80, f4, iso 25K

End Frame, 4 point AF expansion:

-One Shot on the left, Ai Servo on the Right.
-1/80, f4, iso 25K

Example of what happens when you can’t lock onto the target on first frame – 4pt AF Expansion


---

It's very obvious its a contrast issue, I just don't know how to go about fixing/circumventing it

63
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue
« on: July 18, 2012, 11:44:54 PM »
I've been having focus issues with the 1D X in both AI Servo and one shot.

I also had similar experiences in full daylight as the OP with the camera refusing to focus at all. In my case, I was using a 70-200 2.8IS II L. A few times when I would point the camera to an object at infinity. The focus would rack to the nearest distance and stop. This was in sing;e shot AF. It wouldn't hunt - it would just go totally out of focus. Releasing and pressing AF wouldn't do anything - the camera would not try to focus again. The only ay I could get it to acquire focus was to manually focus the lens (to get it at least somewhat sharp), then the AF would begin working again.

Below is one example of the camera missing focus from a wedding I shot this past weekend. An assistant was holding a 600EX-RT behind the couple for backlighting. This was in one shot mode with single AF point and four expansion points. This is a screen grab from the file in DPP so the active (and helper) focus point can be seen. As you can see, there is lots of contrast for the main focus point, as well as good contrast under the four expansion points yet it totally missed.

Here's the OOF example from the wedding:

Ok so I am not the only one - I am meeting with canon Pro Services tomorrow as they want to test out my camera personally and for me to test out another unit.

---

Did a runway shoot last night:

Whilst the lighting condition were far from perfect it was enough to get 1/250 f4 iso 3200-5000 images through the camera. Case 1 this time – with tracking sensitivity ‘locked on’ to -2.

However… I could not use iTR all points on af tracking as it would fail to lock majority of the time, I have been trying my best to make use of this mode as in good light - it is excellent.

Ended up having to use my standard 4 point expansion method (by far the most accurate and predictable AF) which I lost one outfit due to the camera refusing to grab focus of the model – orange dress plenty of skin and black hair for contrast. I generally aim for the line between the collarbone and the start of the outfit for the camera to be able to grab something.

Wasn’t overly high profile shoot so impact to Me is limited, but not impressed with the outcome.

Pre-show I was aiming at people at the end of the runway which had a white wall, they were in darkish clothing, others were in grey and even some in wacky multi colours – white skin, dark hair – plenty of contrast and it wouldn’t lock in Servo, Single shot no issues :/

Not sure how we can emulate this on tomorrow with canon – but these are the conditions I was worried it would be failing in.


64
God no - had 2 5D3's go back - no way in hell

65
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue
« on: July 08, 2012, 11:41:19 PM »
Let us know what Canon says.

Oddly, in the 6 use cases designed to make setting up the AI Servo options, 'still life' isn't one of them.  Just wondering if that's the best test scenario for an AI Servo issue?

I actually only started to look into this as i couldn't lock onto my cousins head moving around the house... definitely wasn't still - i just needed a controlled environment for testing however so this the above is what I came up with.

Regarding the need for a torch - i found when i lit up all the af points i then couldn't see the target lol :P but that af selector light up all points is something I have done since my 7D :) Agreed not elegant but it works.

66
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue
« on: July 08, 2012, 10:20:26 PM »
Further testing:

I don’t think the 100K rgb sensor is quite as refined as it should be.

I tested this theory over lunch with a red, blue, brown, grey dark box (so to speak) – focused on the canon black cap using the canon logo as target:


[One Shot] - 1/50 f4 at 105mm iso 25k – found that it is 2-4x faster on [one shot] with iTR on and locked on without issues – I removed iTR just to make sure it wasn’t interfering.
 

[Ai Servo] - 1/50 f4 at 105mm iso 25k - fails to lock and racks the lens to infinity.
 

[Ai Servo] 1/80 f4 at 105mm iso 25k - I replaced the black cap with a silver eclipse mint container and it locked on instantly with [One Shot] and [Ai Servo] it also had no issues locking onto red, blue and white either.

---

I was having issues one shot - locking on grey objects at -2ev (which is sort of expected) adding in a white and red object made it easier but it still wasn't a cakewalk do to the af points not lighting up and not being able to see where the af point was in correlation to the target. I had to use a tripod and a torch to make sure I had the af point on the object... otherwise i had to keep moving the af point back and forth just to be able to see where the point was...




67
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue
« on: July 08, 2012, 10:12:06 PM »
Well, going by my 5D III AI Servo, I would say AF can be unpredictable, simply missing focus under certain circumstances, often in low light and depending on lens.  Then again, at other times that seem "difficult," it has no problem focusing with AI Servo. 

As usual, if AF lock is crucial, I use One shot.  With 1DX price point, I would have thought it would be much better than 5D III though.

This was just AV mode nothing special.

I'm still waiting on canon's response. I did further testing and seems to crap out on a certain grey point (from my testing) blue or red or white target in the same low light and there was next to no issues

Single shot does lock down to the rated -2ev (tested with a light meter) didn't think at the time to test where the servo craps out at.

68
EOS Bodies / Re: 1dx a compromise?
« on: July 08, 2012, 07:56:45 PM »
Mate when you get one if you don't like it i will be surprised.

I shot along side a friend with the d800 - sure at low iso his images nice an punchy (when he can get a sharp image due to that massive mirror slap) but when we start hammering the isos - my iso 25K is clearer and cleaner then his iso 6400.

I shot a runway show on Friday: AV, auto iso, shutter locked to 1/250 shutter, f4. Shot mRaw (something the d800 really needs) shot over 1300 photos (and brought down the fps to 8) - every single shot was void of noise - every single shot was sharp and punchy - there was no need for colour correction, wb was spot on, exposure was insanely accurate - highlights were protected bar a few where the led lights blew out the models skin (easily fixable in post. The hardest thing I had to do was go through the shots and pick my favourites :)

And fyi there are no issue pushing 2ev without introducing read noise. I've pushed 4ev on a very underexposed image and come up with a perfectly useable image.

My mate with the d800 struggled to write to the cards let alone get more then a few frames off (4 fps is 10 years ago right?), the wb was off and there wasn't enough head room to be able to get clean shots off with shutter locked at 1/250.

Make no mistake, the sony sensors are great, but the DX sensor is exceptional. If you really need to push more then 2 ev then possibly stick with sony. But if Canon make a mega MP cam with this sensor they will have my money again.

The DX is no compromise. If anything it's major downfall is the -2ev focussing should have been specced up to -3ev. (and yes I have field tested it - the af drops off dead on -2ev where as the d800 keeps going to roughly -2.3ev)

69
Assuming the d600 has a similar sensor to the d800 in terms of dr - i'll be adding that to my kit. Alternatively if Nikon wise up and add a sRaw and mRaw to the d800 then I'd just grab that for a studio camera. I don't need or want 36MP as it is 18 on my 1DX is plenty for most applications.

If canon actually release a large MP sensor then obviously my money will go there assuming it doesn't have any of the 5 series sensor flaws.

70
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Update 05/09/12
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Finally got an answer for this guys: It's a feature...

CPS London via CPS Australia:

"On the first issue of AF tracking in low light. Everything you found was correct and the camera needs to be dropped back to 10fps to AF in the lowest light conditions. At 10fps the camera can focus fast and effectively @ -2 Ev Level but at 12fps the Ev Level is changed to -0.5 Ev. This is because of the light reduction when the mirror moves at that speed. The camera does this automatically. This is what you were experiencing under the conditions of the cat walk. This is comparable to all professional 35mm products out there on the market"


On a side note: does the picture below with the 10 and 12 fps comparison even remotely look like 0ev let alone -2EV ?

Anyway - since I hadn't heard from Canon, chasing it up every day I actually switched over to a D4 setup after a mishap with the 1DX and AF assist (bug 2) at a reception - and haven't been happier - I don't have these limitation anymore. It's less a lottery and more consistent frame to frame shots, low light is substantially better AF and i can actually see what i am focusing on - finally.

Anyways hopefully this will help the PJ's understand what is happening.

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Update 21/08
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Still no word from Canon regarding the findings. However they have replaced the my body - I now have a body starting with SN 05 rather then 04.

So changing nothing but FPS L to 10 FPS I ran a very simple test:



So 2nd unit, brand spanking new and exhibits same issue.

If this body doesn't have a bug with the 70-200 f2.8 II/600EX combo, I'll put up with not being able to use 12fps and hope they fix it via firmware update.

Although a month with no reply is just bad form from Canon.


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Update 31/07
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Replicated issue with a brand new 1DX at the store I bought mine from. It's not isolated as I had hoped - staff can't believe it either.

Waiting on canon now

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Update 29/07
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Issue has been isolated to anything more then 10 fps when shooting in low light - Initial target lock is hindered and at times target subject can not be locked on (lens racks to infinity and stops) - af servo tracking is reduced by 80% in some instances the af tracking stops completely.

And by low light I mean - my testing area is a 60w equivalent cfw room light, 4mx4m room and my girlfriends face (porcelain skin dark eyebrows and dark eyes plenty of contrast). In direct comparison my trusty 7D locks on and tracks without issues.

Setting the servo between 3 and 10 fps fixes the issue on the 1DX

Many thanks to justaphotographer for isolating this issue.

Have reported to Canon - waiting to see a resolution - for now set fps to 10 or less.



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Update 27/07:
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OK so speaking with Canon We have isolated it down to an AF function/modification. It doesn't seem to be a custom function change.

I tend to use case 1 and case 4 and modify case 4 (all sliders moved to the very left) - now I can't seem to figure out what combination of changes make the AF balls up. I had everything set as I like it last night but the second i changed over rotation to computer only (as i tend to shoot portrait mode) the af started to play up. Undoing the rotation change did not fix the issue. Had to reset to a working backup.

If I leave the af setting as stock default everything works properly.

And as it has always been this only shows up in low light Servo.

If anyone is interested I can load a broken config they can play around with and see if they can work it out.

It's a little frustrating as I don't know what I am changing that's causing the AF to bug out. As proved to me when I was shooting with canon in and underground car park the 1DX could lock onto a black car moving at 20+ km/hr in next to no light and get a ridiculously sharp image.

Canon is working on it, as am I - keep keep this updated.


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Ok so for all those not wanting to read everything here is the conclusion:

Sat with Canon Australia Pro Support this afternoon - which they came to my work after My work hours, sat down for a coffee, gave me a few tips and fixed my problem - I really could not ask for more support from any company! And remember they are from a completely different state then I!!!

Anyways after being schooled on some af config case tweaks we took the cameras into an underground carpark probably a good -1 to -2ev at least.

They tested their camera no issue - passed it to me and it blew me way snap bang locked no issues. They grabbed mine and it went ass up - they couldn't believe it.

Went through all the settings and couldn't work out what it is. So we copied the working 1Dx's config on a memory card and loaded it on mine and it's like a brand new camera - it's like night vision tbh.

So yeah if you are having issues as per below - grab this config file: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/33440790/DXSave/WORRKSSS.CSD and load it.

Canon will get back to me as we are unsure if its something funky in the settings or setting screwed up something in servo logic. Either-way I will update this as soon as I am made aware.

Thank You Canon Australia for taking care of Me :)


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Not looking to bag out the DX - actually looking for help from other owners and or Photographers that can explain this phenomenon:

--

Issue: Low light Ai Servo mis-focus/no-focus
Full-size images here: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/33440790/weirdservo.zip (65MB)

--
1 body – 1DX
3 Lenses – ef50 f1.4, 24-105 F4 L, 70-200 f2.8 II
Shot in Jpeg – all options on (ALO, NR, Lens Correction etc…) and then all options off.
All handheld (no tripod av)
--

I’ll preface this with; on the night prior I was out shooting under moonlight – without any notable issues – with, of all lenses - the ef 50 f1.4 (which if you know and love the lens, you know it hunts focus in low light). With my short time with the 1DX , my impressions of the 1DX’s AF is that it snaps to focus on objects You cannot physically see and locks on with near-possessed speed.

Now last night I found this issue when trying to track my cousins head/face moving through the house. It wasn’t particularly dark 3 room lights registered iso 1600-3200 f2.8 can’t remember the shutter speed. She got sick of being target practise so I turned to my dog. The 1DX wouldn’t grab focus either.

By this I mean it racks the lens to infinity and stops or just stops AFTER it’s visibly passes focus. Not and MFD issue either – after a slight mini panic attack, I swapped over lenses and same issue, swapped to the prime and exact same issue. Thought it was the changes I made to case 4 so swapped it to a default case 1 – same issue. I haven’t played around with 1st and 2nd frame preference but I then swapped it to focus preference and still no change.

Intrigued from my experiences the night before I swapped it to [One Shot] and it focused and locked on with possessed speed once again. Swap back to [Ai Servo] and it racks to infinity/racks past.

--

So in the original room there were too many variables of people moving through the house changing the light so I setup a pretty average testing area:


This was [One shot] 24-105 at f4@24mm, 1/40, iso 25600

This was [Ai Servo] – same settings. Just failed to focus.

--

Shot from the other side of the room:


This was [One shot] 24-105 at f4@105mm, 1/25, iso 25600

This was [Ai Servo] – same settings. Just failed to focus.

--

So then I thought let’s bring in 3 times more light (even with the f4/5.6 crosstypes more light can’t be a bad thing)

This was [One shot] EF 50 f1.4 at f1.4@1/40, iso 3200 (bottom af point from memory)

This was [Ai Servo] – same settings. Just failed to focus. (iso 4000)

--

So finally I thought it was a contrast issue – so added more contrast:

This was [One shot] EF 50 f1.4 at f2 @1/40, iso 6400

This was [Ai Servo] – same settings. Just failed to focus

--

I thought the Servo using ITR then needed more light so turned off ITR and it had the same issue.

I’m out of ideas for explaining this one.

Please note: I shot and tried all AF modes to acquire lock via [Ai Servo]. [One Shot] locked on with any AF mode selected.


71
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS-1D X - June 20, 2012 in Japan
« on: July 03, 2012, 08:05:39 AM »
coming from an 'expansion af' only when using ai servo on the 7D i was tempted to use expansion on the 1DX but it doesn't seem to use ITR so im trying to learn to use 'all points on' and 'zone af' (which both use ITR)

The new AI servo III 'all points on' feels like the love-child of 7D expansion with the freedom and fail-safe of all points. Don't knock it till you try it! Not a fan of zone af (as yet) but case 4 with -1 to focus change (top option) works well for me for now.

oh and dont freak out too much about the read noise on the rear lcd (page 147 states that NR isn't as effective on rear lcd when shooting raw but takes effect when processed on pc) and its true.

only had it for 24 hours and its blown my mind

focuses from standby to lock faster then i can put my finger on the shutter (af-on user) and racks off two frames faster then i can pull my finger off the shutter. It's really is a beast!

72
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS-1D X - June 20, 2012 in Japan
« on: July 02, 2012, 11:07:35 PM »
Seeing how unimpressed i was with the 5D3 i was expecting a failure. But I'm having a hard time faulting the unit. Even at iso 51K with no NR

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/33440790/AJ3P0180.jpg iso 51200, 1/400 (cause i can) 200mm at f4 (2.8 L II if you are wondering) 18MB warning. Noise is workable and pleasant, heaps of detail - OH forgot! NO NR in-body or in post!

Woah, that's a big picture, but just shows what it can do! Hope all those cold tablets aren't yours and if they are - hope you get better soon!

Will you be posting some low ISO RAWs as well?

Have fun with your new camera!

Lol well i did put 18MB warning :P

GF is the sick one :/

Will try and put it through its paces over the next few days - have too much work on to actually learn it properly but hey it really isnt that much different to driving a 7D

73
EOS Bodies - For Stills / 1DX Remapping the zoom buttons
« on: July 02, 2012, 10:41:46 PM »
Anyone figured out how to put the zoom buttons back on the shoulder keys?

The default config is frustrating (5D3 style)

74
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS-1D X - June 20, 2012 in Japan
« on: July 02, 2012, 08:08:14 PM »
Just picked mine up in Perth - waiting for batteries to charge!!!

Congrats! Don't you just hate getting a new gadget like a phone or something as awesome as the 1D X, only to have to wait for the battery to charge!

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the new camera. What will you be using it for?

Got mine from the Guys at PRA - surprisingly the batteries weren't 250+ only 165 - cant complain!

Using it as my sport/event/work camera lol - covers everything really.

Seeing how unimpressed i was with the 5D3 i was expecting a failure. But I'm having a hard time faulting the unit. Even at iso 51K with no NR

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/33440790/AJ3P0180.jpg iso 51200, 1/400 (cause i can) 200mm at f4 (2.8 L II if you are wondering) 18MB warning. Noise is workable and pleasant, heaps of detail - OH forgot! NO NR in-body or in post!

75
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS-1D X - June 20, 2012 in Japan
« on: July 02, 2012, 07:30:50 AM »
Just picked mine up in Perth - waiting for batteries to charge!!!

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