September 15, 2014, 12:15:45 AM

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Messages - RLPhoto

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61
Lenses / Re: Canon EF 12-24mm f/2.8 L - Constructing the Enigma
« on: September 05, 2014, 09:06:55 AM »
Satisfied with the 16-35 f/4L. I don't really need anything else wider or faster.

62
EOS Bodies / Re: Is Canon now two generations behind Nikon?
« on: September 05, 2014, 08:45:13 AM »
LOL!  I love it.   ;D

Reminds me of the assumptions people used to make about the color cast lens coatings imparted back in the Old Film Days.

<really bad joke> Every print with a greenish tint is automatically a Nikon shot? </really bad joke>

Sorry, couldn't resist :)
I find it funny this challenge come from someone preaching about how a 50mp sensor will somehow resolve more detail with crap lenses when no one will tell the difference in print. Hilarious! XD

63
Proof, please.
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/03/d800-lens-selection
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/03/d-resolution-tests

D800 is capable, with the very best lenses, of bringing more resolution to an image. But, it is only with the best (1050+ lines average) lenses that it makes the difference between a 36MP and 22MP.

And that is of course working off a tripod in lab perfect conditions. In more practical conditions (especially handheld), you'd see even less gain with anything but the best lenses. Basically, if you want the most of the D810/D800E, you want the Zeiss lenses.

Of course, this isnt a knock against a 36MP sensor. Its capable of more in some circumstances, and in every other one, its on par with a smaller sensor. But, if you're considering a 50MP sensor (and the hassles that come with that), its good to know what you are actually gaining
Basically what I said. The benefit between 22 and 36mp bodies is negligible when using let's say the Tamron 24-70mm. Once you get the zeiss 135mm APO, the difference is stark.

However, doesn't change my point that even at 36mp it's hard to get the detail out of it and let alone a 50mp sensor in 35mm format. MF cams could get the majority of that detail out due to the lower lens magnification.

And when you put it in print, the difference is even more eh...

64
That's all fine and dandy but in the Real world,  hardly of any use. Only a handful of lenses actually can resolve the details of a 36mp sensor. Forget about a 50mp sensor on that Sony glass.

That's not how resolution works. The final value is a result of the combination of all components (lens and sensor or film) and is always lower than the weakest component. But strengthening any component leads to an increase for the entire system, even if that specific component is "past" the resolution of the weakest component,  i.e. the weakest component is not a hard limit in the way you're imagining it to be.

At any rate, you can discern plenty of lenses on 24 MP APS-C sensors which means they will show an advantage on 50 MP FF.

That said, it would be difficult to see any difference between 24/36/50 MP except on the very largest prints. We're hitting the point of diminishing returns with respect to even 36" prints.
Eh. Not so in practice, you just getting more crappy detail of the crappy part of the lens by adding more MP. However moving to a bigger format with more MP, now that adds real detail gains.

65
Really?

The following is the physics (taken from an article I wrote years ago) -

This presents the theoretic resolving power of an ideal lens where the light's
wavelength is 589.3mu (green).


Tangential lines/mm
f-number Angular distance from axis (in degrees)
    0    10    25
1     1391 1329  1035
2     695  665   518
4     348  332   259
5.6   246  235   183
8     174  166   130
11    123  117   92  <--- approx. limits of film/sensor resolution
16    87   83    65
22    61   59    46
32    43   41    32
45    31   29    23
64    22   21    16

Radial lines/mm
f-number Angular distance from axis (in degrees)
    0    10    25
1     1391 1370  1260
2     695  685   630
4     348  343   315
5.6   246  243   223
8     174  171   158
11    123  121   111  <--- approx. limits of film/sensor resolution

16    87   86    79
22    61   61    56
32    43   43    39
45    31   30    28
64    22   21    20

I realize we are not dealing with "ideal" lenses, but... in my several decades of looking at this question, it's ALWAYS come down to the film or sensor being the limiting factor for resolution.  Period.

In the face of new evidence I'd be happy to change my understanding and position on the topic.  Until then, current lenses are likely more than sufficient for 50mp sensors.


The lenses will have issues resolving that many MP across the frame. They already do on the d800s, let alone a 50mp sensor.
That's all fine and dandy but in the Real world,  hardly of any use. Only a handful of lenses actually can resolve the details of a 36mp sensor. Forget about a 50mp sensor on that Sony glass.

66
That would make me buy an a7. Really? 50mp? This is madness...

Not too mad I think: Just the evergreen 18 MPix APS-sensors of canon will result in a roughly 50 MPix sensor if expanded to 24x36mm.

I dream about a 48 MPix sensor which can used to produce 12 MPix images where each final image pixel is calculated from a RGGB sensor pixel quadruplet in camera or during post processing.

Just my more conservative lenses like 2.8 24, 2.8 40, 2.0 100 or 2.8 100 Macro would profit from both, the full resolution or the quarter resolution mode!

Might be an option to replace the EOS M and still use Canon EF and FD lenses or a Rodagon 5.6 120mm with FD bellows.
The lenses will have issues resolving that many MP across the frame. They already do on the d800s, let alone a 50mp sensor.

67
That would make me buy an a7. Really? 50mp? This is madness...

68
EOS Bodies / Re: Is Canon now two generations behind Nikon?
« on: September 03, 2014, 11:31:21 PM »
Why has this made it to page 30?

Because there is an extremely high correlation between Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and frequency of internet postings.

Take some OCD, coupled with a matter of life and death, plus a lack of humour.... throw in some raging testosterone and keep the whole mixture simmering over a troll baited flame.... Add DR for seasoning.... and you get enough posts to choke the server.

Don Haines
Posts: 3084

 ;)


And of those 3,084 posts, 3,083 have been cheerful, humorous, positive, constructive and/or peace-making. I'd say 3,084 were that way, but hey -- nobody's perfect.  :P

I was going to ask Mitch if he is experiencing Deja Moo... (The feeling that you have seen this bull before) :)

Unfocused: 2044 Posts. The only reason for posting this is to start one of those quote within a quote within a quote sequences that can look pretty cool when they get to about 20-30 quotes. Time to have some fun, demonstrate the absurdity of this thread and maybe break the Internet!

Neuroanatomist: just a few posts, really.

What? No one else wants to play?

I spy something with my little eye...

I can't, I am on a self imposed exile for a week or so. But, intriguingly enough, I have a friend coming to stay who has a D800 (shame it isn't an 810 or E though) and a 24-70 so I am hoping to do some comparison images for my own piece of mind.

What better to make of such a thread than a kaleidoscope....  :o

Good read to pass time... I wonder if the forum will eventually put a limit on how many levels you can quote, or run out of memory and crash...

Probably not—that's all just handled with CSS in your browser—but eventually it will probably get to the point where the innermost quoted message is only one character wide.  :D
That would be fun!

Not a Kaleidoscope, and not an Aneurysm, it's a Squirrel!
Really?

69
Lenses / Re: Your favorite older EF lens
« on: September 03, 2014, 05:50:11 PM »
Forgot about teh 200mm F/1.8L

70
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: I had a Blowout... On a Hasselblad.
« on: September 03, 2014, 01:18:39 PM »
If this was a car forum, someone would be sure to post, "Oh, that'll buff right out".
---
So, please tell, aside from the shutter issue, how are you liking MF?
I'm seriously considering a 645Z, wondering how Hassy's implementation of that sensor performs?

It's great. I should have jumped sooner and the H3DII files are beautiful under 200 iso. I sync my Einstein @ 1/800th easy and lose 1/2 stop syncing speed lites at that speed. The lenses are amazingly sharp aand I got to rent the 210mm HC. It makes my 135L look broken and what I especially like about hassy is the second hand prices for lenses are really good.

Overall, I'd drop down to an aps camera before ditching the hassy now. I enjoy working with it.

71
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: I had a Blowout... On a Hasselblad.
« on: September 02, 2014, 10:38:23 PM »
Bummer man. Sorry to hear about that.

I guess that's one of the potential drawbacks of leaf shutter lenses...although for the price, you would think they would last FAAAR longer than 6k actuations...

Big time, and It broke during a nice portrait shoot too. I reverted to my 5D3 + 24-70VC and slapping on ND's, turning up those strobes. I really like the IQ out of the 80mm too. Its a shame.  :-\

I bet it was a beautiful lens with beautiful IQ. Are you going to get it repaired?

Thats the thing, If it costs a 1000+, I probably won't. I'll end up using that cash towards a 50-110MM instead.

72
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: I had a Blowout... On a Hasselblad.
« on: September 02, 2014, 08:39:40 PM »
Bummer man. Sorry to hear about that.

I guess that's one of the potential drawbacks of leaf shutter lenses...although for the price, you would think they would last FAAAR longer than 6k actuations...

Big time, and It broke during a nice portrait shoot too. I reverted to my 5D3 + 24-70VC and slapping on ND's, turning up those strobes. I really like the IQ out of the 80mm too. Its a shame.  :-\

73
Third Party Manufacturers / I had a Blowout... On a Hasselblad.
« on: September 02, 2014, 03:27:24 PM »
I blewout a 80mm Leaf shutter.  :-\ Will be sending it in with only 6k actuation's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GgrWHbwR2k&feature=youtu.be


74
Lenses / Re: Anyone want to buy the 24-70/4?
« on: September 02, 2014, 09:22:45 AM »
The price is starting to make sense now but I'd still by a Tamron 24-70 VC over it.

75
EOS Bodies / Re: Is Canon now two generations behind Nikon?
« on: September 02, 2014, 05:30:13 AM »
Again jrista, I don't see it. You've have no reason at this point not to adopt the a7r, it's a fantastic camera with basically identical IQ that doesn't require a full adoption. I like end results and the a7r gives a better end result than 5d3 for your landscapes.

Call it in, and hang up the phone on the DR posts. I mean you probably could have wrote war & peace with a stop wedge by now.

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