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Messages - cayenne

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571
Hi all,

I'm looking to buy the CS6 Production suite. I have a macbookpro. I'm wondering which version of CS6 I should buy?

I would prefer the OSX version, however, it occured to me, that with upgrades to OSX, at some point in the not too far future, the Adobe tools might no longer work.

I have VMWare running on this mac, and it can happily run Win7 for the few tools I need windows for....so, wondering since I can more easily 'freeze' Win7 in time with the VM, maybe I should get the windows version.

Am I correct in saying that you HAVE to choose which OS you get for the Adobe tools? That you don't get 'both' OSes for one price? That you have to buy it twice if you want a version for each OS?

Thanks in advance!!

cayenne

572
I'll start off by asking...what about
Pixelmator (the latest version just released)  vs Photoshop

What can Photoshop do that Pixelmator is lacking?

Also, can someone tell me what the difference is between:

Photoshop Extended vs Photoshop vs Photoshop Essentials?


Thanks in advance,

cayenne

573
Software & Accessories / Re: Alternatives to Adobe Software
« on: May 09, 2013, 11:30:56 AM »
Capture One seems really nice to replace LR but what if you shoot JPGs and not RAWs?

I used Gimp a while back and I think it's quite nice as well and can replace PS, you just need to get used to the new interface like any other software.  And by the way I've never liked PS interface.

The larger question is: Why do you shoot jpgs and not RAWs?

There's really no reason anyone today that has a good camera, capable of shooting RAW to be shooting ONLY jpgs. I can understand shooting both, as that there are times for a quick slide show maybe or immediate needs, but for anyone that Post Processes, there is really no compelling reason to be doing that with anything but RAW images.

??

C

574
also, I dump the footage after the video is complete and the client is happy, so if i keep one 2TB hard drive on Thunderbolt or Esata then I should do pretty well with storage space shooting one house at a time.

Hey, just wondering, if since the BM 4K camera was announced, and also the BM Pocket Cinema camera.....have you reconsidered going BM and getting one of these cameras?

Just curious,

C

575
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 09, 2013, 11:26:02 AM »
I'm an amateur photographer who uses Lightroom (4.4) and Photoshop (CS5 Extended.)  I haven't updated my version of Photoshop because I use the program a couple times a month, for HDR and layers adjustments.  I use Lightroom regularly, but there are many things Lightroom can't do that my version of Photoshop can.  Based on the pricing, I guess Adobe just doesn't care about users like me.

There's nothing to stop you continuing to use Ps CS5, it won't suddenly expire. You can stick with LR4 or upgrade to Lr5 on the normal perpetual license model. You'd only have to subscribe if you wanted the new features in Photoshop CC, in which case your workflow actually suits the new scheme - you can keep Ps CS5 installed, and if you don't use the features in Ps CC very often you can rent it for one month as and when you need it (both versions can be installed together). There will be a few cases when the PSD files created by Ps CC won't be compatible with Ps CS5 (for example if you use TypeKit fonts or the new vector shape layers) but you can flatten out those objects.

Mr DFM,

Can you answer a question I have?

How much longer will the CS6 suites be offered as stand alone? I'm interested in the CS6 Production suite of tools. Any idea how much longer that will be offered for purchase as stand alone?

Thank you,

cayenne

576
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 08, 2013, 10:24:30 PM »


So, if I read your quoted part correctly...

I could join CC paid....download the archived version (current version?) of CS6, which would run stand alone, not requiring CC account, and then quit and still have CS6 which would run indefinitely?

If so, that sounds like a bit of a bargain...?

cayenne

Nope... with your account, they issue a license code, much like any current adobe product... you cancel your account, the code is canceled, and any further access is canceled without that code being active... so otherwise it wont work beyond that point.

But wait, current CS6 doesn't phone home, right?
I was assuming that the 'archived' old versions they spoke about, would be stand alone CS6...
So, it sounds to me like you subscribe for a year, you can get the CC for a year, BUT you can also download CS6 (maybe the Production suite?), and have that as a stand alone download.

So, you have that, complete your year CC, and still have CS6 standalone you downloaded, which doesn't phone home...that you can use to your hearts desire?

Of course, they haven't said which legacy apps they'll have for this, but it sounds to me like you can get the old non-phone home versions of things you can download and use, they'll be unsupported, but if you got the CS6 Suite for the year of CC price, at the end of the year, you could quite and end up with CS6 suite for less than what it costs now?

cayenne

It depends... At my home computer I have CS5 stand alone... at my work office I have CS6, but that is through the CC... That is controlled through the adobe device manager... the device manager does the phone home stuff...  So yeah...  If we were to stop paying the CC i'm fairly sure eventually I would lose CS6

Ok...my assumption was that the 'archived' version of CS6 Production Suite, if that is one that is offered, would be the same as the one you can purchase today without any need for a cloud connection.

If that is the case, then it would be worthwhile to pay for CC for one year, download the standalone CS6 Suite (if offered as one of the archived versions that the Adobe Rep on here mentioned), and then quit CC after the first year and just use the stand alone 'archive', unsupported older CS6 Suite/Tools till either something better comes along, or Adobe has a moment of clarity and switches back to versions you can buy and not have to rent.

Anyway, it might be interesting to see what exactly these "Archived Downloadable Older versions" might end up being....and see if my thought process is proved to be true.

C

577
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 08, 2013, 11:57:41 AM »


So, if I read your quoted part correctly...

I could join CC paid....download the archived version (current version?) of CS6, which would run stand alone, not requiring CC account, and then quit and still have CS6 which would run indefinitely?

If so, that sounds like a bit of a bargain...?

cayenne

Nope... with your account, they issue a license code, much like any current adobe product... you cancel your account, the code is canceled, and any further access is canceled without that code being active... so otherwise it wont work beyond that point.

But wait, current CS6 doesn't phone home, right?
I was assuming that the 'archived' old versions they spoke about, would be stand alone CS6...
So, it sounds to me like you subscribe for a year, you can get the CC for a year, BUT you can also download CS6 (maybe the Production suite?), and have that as a stand alone download.

So, you have that, complete your year CC, and still have CS6 standalone you downloaded, which doesn't phone home...that you can use to your hearts desire?

Of course, they haven't said which legacy apps they'll have for this, but it sounds to me like you can get the old non-phone home versions of things you can download and use, they'll be unsupported, but if you got the CS6 Suite for the year of CC price, at the end of the year, you could quite and end up with CS6 suite for less than what it costs now?

cayenne

578
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 08, 2013, 09:50:01 AM »
The mandatory move to CC subscription licensing only affects products in the current "CS6" range. Bundled products without a CS6 badge (including Lightroom and Acrobat, plus all the "Elements" versions) will continue to be available under perpetual licenses as they are now.

All paid CC members will have access to a select set of archived versions of the desktop apps. Starting with CS6, select older versions of the desktop creative apps will be archived and available for download. Archived versions are provided “as is” and are not updated to work with the latest hardware and software platforms.

Who are you? Adobe rep? Is that official info?


Yes it's official info - I'm an ACP, we speak to the user community on behalf of Adobe but we're not sales reps.

Please read the CC FAQ at http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.htm (it's being updated with new items regularly, including my two points above).

To touch on pricing, as Tom Hogarty said last week, Adobe are looking at how their product offers can best be tailored to suit photographers. That may mean in future there are 'pick-n-mix' bundles at different price points - but it's very early days. As I'm sure you appreciate, feedback is not something Adobe are short of this week  ;)

The position on Lightroom is a little more complex than Photoshop, as Lr is a bundle product (it doesn't sync release dates with CS, this time it's a coincidence). All existing perpetual licenses for Lr4 and earlier will continue to work, perpetual licenses for Lr5 will go on sale when the public beta ends, and Lr5 will be rolled out to existing Creative Cloud and new CC subscribers just as Lr4 was. The only significant difference is that boxed copies are not available - All Adobe software is download-only as of this month, so you buy a serial number (from Adobe's store or through the normal retail networks like Amazon) and download the installer from Adobe's CDN. Of course you can burn it to disc as a backup if you want.

In future there may well be times when new features appear in the CC-bundled version of Lr which aren't yet in the perpetual version, because Cloud subscribers get new features quicker (as SOX doesn't apply).

The questions about Web connectivity seem to have been resolved; to summarize - CC normally pings the activation server once every 30 days. If you don't have connectivity it will run a grace period of another 30 days, then revert to trial mode (which then runs for 30 days) - this gives 99 full days of work before the apps refuse to open. Customers have been asking about how to install CC on firewalled machines or how to work for more than 99 days in remote locations, there will be clarification on that shortly.


So, if I read your quoted part correctly...

I could join CC paid....download the archived version (current version?) of CS6, which would run stand alone, not requiring CC account, and then quit and still have CS6 which would run indefinitely?

If so, that sounds like a bit of a bargain...?

cayenne

579
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 07, 2013, 11:01:42 PM »
OK so I determined that either Image Mechanic will do what I want, or it is possible to do it with some hand built stuff. Who knows maybe I'll write a nice little software around it and sell it.

Wouldn't have gone this far if Adobe hadn't pushed me. And this is the key, they're forcing customers to decide who is serious and who isn't, and I suspect they'll lose revenue from the not serious crowd.
I"m actually hopeful (ever the optimist)...that maybe this will drive more support and efforts to develop open source applications like PS. Maybe this will put money and effort to drive the GIMP.

I know the GIMP is way behind PS, but it is pretty far along for an unsupported community effort. Look at applications like Blender which ARE quite well done.  Maybe this will push GIMP further along. It has a great start, just needs more time and money put into it...?

That's my $0.02,

cayenne

580
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 07, 2013, 10:56:17 PM »
A swap to this model of using Adope CS6 will cause some problems for big organisations that have to secure their datas .
The head of the IT department in the organisation where I work, is in doubt whether the state bureaus is allowing to open the firewall/safety-solutions to use this cloud based software. It is to risky. They are in fear to get hacked.
And we own really a lot of CS6 licences.

Okay, repeat after me: This is NOT a cloud application. This is Not a cloud application.

From Adobe's website: "And, as always, your applications live on your desktop, not in a browser and not in the cloud."

It is just a confusingly-named marketing scheme.

The problem I have, regardless of whether the software resides in the cloud, on your desktop or on Pandora, is a requirement for an internet connection so that every time you start the application a license check is performed.  That would cause a great deal of heartburn on my part.

This model hasn't done gangbusters on every company that has tried it either.

Witness the dismal acceptance and sales of the new version of Sim City that recently came out. Lots of fanfare and anticipation, but once people saw that it had to always have an internet connection, for what was essentially a single player game...it was largely rejected and NOT a money maker.

581
Software & Accessories / Re: Alternatives to Adobe Software
« on: May 07, 2013, 10:51:07 PM »
oh contraire mon ami  - you had to download it from their server.  That's the whole point of "Software as a Service."  Either way you look at it, you will pay to play, stay with what you have or look for a more palatable alternative.    Google will eventually move to the model for the Nik Collection.  Most of their service offerings are already based on it.

And yes, software piracy does come into play in this game.  Companies like Apple, Microsoft and Adobe that write software need to protect their revenues.  Sure it won't stop piracy but it does allow the software companies to stay one step ahead of the pirates.  Think about it:  you ever download an evaluation or "trial version," of any software and have it stop working after the trial period expired. 

No buy license - no ticket to ride.

oh contraire mon ami ...  just you wait and see.




I hate to be the harbinger of bad news but its not just Adobe.  It didn't start with Adobe and probably won't end with Adobe.  Enter Microsoft, Apple, Salesforce, Google (downloaded Nik Collection recently?), state government and private IT datacenters, Drop-Box, etc. etc.
                             ;)

Err....yes, I bought the NIK Collection, but it isn't a service, and I don't have to pay more than once.
I downloaded the plugins, they work, and I don't have to pay again for them....
I think you're using the terms much different that what I understand them to be.
Buying software online, but a one time purchase and it is yours and does NOT have to be online to be used...is just buying software and downloading it onlne.

Software as a service is software that you never own, nor are licensed to used for as long as you like. YOu are 'renting' it literally in SAAS. The software phones home periodically to make sure you are still paying rent, and if you do not successfully connect for it to self verify, it ceases to work.

The NIK stuff, is not SAAS at this time. It 'could' be on some future edition I suppose, but any change Google makes to it going forward with new versions, will not affect my purchased suite I just got. My NIK purchase does not have to phone home to be renewed.

That's the difference between regular software (either downloaded or purchased on optical formats, etc) vs Software as a Service.

Just trying to get the terminology down. But just downloading software does not make is SAAS.

HTH,

cayenne

582
Software & Accessories / Re: Alternatives to Adobe Software
« on: May 07, 2013, 12:44:52 PM »
Photoshop elements, lightroom and paintshop pro seem to be the most common alternatives although elements and paintshop are more graphic editing whilst lightroom is more photographers tools.
GIMP (tried it, but never really liked it)

For Apple: Aperture or Photostudio (and after working with windows 8 for a while, I must confess that that platform becomes more tempting by the day)

What does regular Photoshop have that Photoshop Elements is lacking?

583
Software & Accessories / Re: Alternatives to Adobe Software
« on: May 07, 2013, 12:43:30 PM »

I hate to be the harbinger of bad news but its not just Adobe.  It didn't start with Adobe and probably won't end with Adobe.  Enter Microsoft, Apple, Salesforce, Google (downloaded Nik Collection recently?), state government and private IT datacenters, Drop-Box, etc. etc.
                             ;)

Err....yes, I bought the NIK Collection, but it isn't a service, and I don't have to pay more than once.
I downloaded the plugins, they work, and I don't have to pay again for them....

584
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 07, 2013, 11:42:38 AM »

The real problem is slightly different.  Those of us who will try to milk CS6 for as long as possible will be forced to upgrade to CC when and if we update to a new OS.  Eventually Win7 will be Win8 (only) or Win9 or who knows what.  And lo and behold, CS6 won't work on it so you won't even have your old software to putter around with.  That's what I find even now when it comes to upgrading.  It's usually about the OS and support for programs for older OS or plugins support for older OS or older versions of photoshop.  Those of us who make money using this software will one day find we have no choice but to shell out an obscene amount of money and will have no choice as with all our other expenses but to pass it on to the couples getting married.  They are the losers in all of this.  Sadly, I've grown too accustomed to using photoshop lo these many many years and don't see a viable alternative.  There are raw converters out there but I'm used to using so much more in photoshop itself after converting that I'm going to either accept CC or spend serious time and effort to find an alternative and figure out how to make it do what I need it to do.  Darn you Adobe.

Not that difficult to 'milk' it for quite awhile.

Just install VMWare on your system (works great on Mac, Linux and Windows)...and you happily run your version of the OS that CS6 runs on till you are tired of using it.

cayenne

585
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 06, 2013, 10:31:21 PM »
A couple of thoughts.

1. With the subscription only model, what incentive does that give Adobe to innovate and come up with NEW features and bug fixes? I mean, the main reason people updated was new features. If they have you the short and curlies renting the software, what incentive do they have then to come out with regular and meaningful updates on a regular basis?

2. I have pretty strong faith in the hackers and crackers out there, I"m guessing at some point, they'll have a "fix" for the software phoning home, likely have it talk to an app. locally on your computer when it needs to check in.

I think, however, it kinda blows they're doing this. Sure, it might open up room for competition, but from where? What out there is close to PS ?  There's the open sourced GIMP application, but it needs a lot of work to bring it more up to speed with PS.

Me? Well, I've been talking about it...and now I"m gonna hurry up and do it.

I"m gonna register with one of the local community colleges here, for $50, you don't even have to sign up for classes, and you can get an EDU ID, which is all you need for getting the Student/Teacher edition of CS6.

Its fully functional, and according to the FAQ and TOS of Adobe, perfectly usable for commercial, for $$ work.

I'll get that at a reasonable price, and won't worry about upgrading until someday when/if Adobe changes their tune on the subscription only model.

Just my $0.02,

cayenne

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