Messages

256

EOS Bodies / Re: 7D focusing question??

« on: May 16, 2011, 11:28:04 AM »

justsomedude... Just thinking about your tokina situation... The general rule of thumb has been, with 3rd party lenses, to go to camera stores and test several versions of the lens to get the sharpest because QC and repairs would be so troublesome, however in the terms of camera upgrade that gets thrown out of the water since it's pairing with a new camera. 

Awin and Neuro - thanks for the responses.  I don't think I'm going to kill myself over the Tokina clarity, it's just not worth it.  Once I get the 7D back and (hopefully) all my lenses check out OK, I'll give the Tokina one more visit to THK service.  If that doesn't fix it, off to the auction block she goes... maybe for a canon 17-55 EF-S, we'll see.

But one last item of concern:  what are your thoughts on the vertical "light" band I've been finding in some of my images (I forgot to mention it before)?

http://www.akphotodenver.com/images/7D/band1.tif   (warning - 51 MB file!)
http://www.akphotodenver.com/images/7D/band2.tif   (warning - 51 MB file!)

This is almost more troublesome than the damn focus issues!

257

EOS Bodies / Re: 7D focusing question??

« on: May 15, 2011, 04:11:43 PM »

Justsomedude,

I've carefully examined all your examples and apart from random sharpness variations which I'd suggest are caused by hand holding the camera, they all seem reasonable. Certainly I have worse examples shot using Canon "L" glass handheld. It does not take much to just take that edge off. The only one I'd have reshot immediately would be the gym shot. 

Thanks for the critique, motorhead - it is much appreciated.  Although how can camera shake be entering in as a factor at 1/6400 of a second shutter speed (as was used in the pay phone photos)?  Also, every Tokina image was with a tripod - and the interior ones all used a remote shutter release cable.  You really would not have re-shot this one - where the focus point was the microwave clock?  >  http://www.akphotodenver.com/images/7D/Tokina_no_focus-8280.jpg   To me that seems unacceptably blurred.  Sh*t, I can't even read the time on the clock.  But maybe my expectations of sharpness are too high? 

The bulk of my frustration is mainly coming from the change in performance from 40D to the 7D.  I even went back to my older Lightroom imports and found that I had far better consistency with focus shot-to-shot on the 40D with the same lenses than the 7D.  Perhaps I'm just seeing more "faults" due to the pixel density of the 7D? If that's the case, I guess I can learn to live with it.

258

EOS Bodies / Re: 7D focusing question??

« on: May 15, 2011, 01:39:20 PM »

Regarding the 11-16 tokina... dont get me wrong, i used to love tokina's... That was one of my favorite lenses out of college because they offered lenses I could afford on ebay with a small budget, especially on the wide end.  I haven't played with the lens you got so i cant speak for it, however you said you had great photos with it with the 40D and now you cant with the 7D?  While I doubt canon would be willing to adjust the tokina to meet the cameras sensor for optimum focus, that's a tough one.  If MA doesn't work for you... well lets put a hypothetical out there... is the OOF consistant...  Lets say you shot a similar scene over and over and over with that lens, is the area in focus (that you were intending to be OOF) is that scene consistantly in focus meaning the AF is working properly however with the combination of the sensor and the lens, it is outside the range of MA allotment?  Or is it sometimes front focusing, sometimes backfocusing, just all over the place?  I guess that would be the first place I'd check is the see the consistency of the focus issue.  In that case, i would have to say perhaps there is a possible fix...  If not and it's all over the place, I would have to say it's a compatibility issue. 

I hope to hear back from you regarding your issues.

Awin, thanks again for the detailed reply - your patience and help is MUCH appreciated.

So, some more detail...  the 50mm is the cheapie 1.8 (yes, I'm on a budget).  But even with that said, I really wouldn't expect such glaring inconsistencies in sequential photos.  Check the following full resolution samples (and note, all three are sequence photos, with a good pause between shots for reacquiring focus)...

http://www.akphotodenver.com/images/7D

These are all handheld images, One Shot focus, single shot "sequence" mode, with manually selected single point of focus (center point).  On the microwave images, the vertical black/white edge of the clock/panel was used as contrast line for focusing.  One could argue the slow-shutter speed was the problem, but the exact same issue appeared moments later when I took photos of a pay phone outside my window at blazing fast shutter speeds.  On the pay phone images, the text of the word "phone" in the pay phone booth was the area used for focus.  The lens is wide open on all shots where (yes, I know) the 1.8 performs poorest with "sharpness."  Still, this level of inconsistency seems outside the realm of "normal performance" for me.  Heck, if this IS indeed "normal" for the cheapie 1.8, please let me know, and maybe I just need to drop the dollar on the 1.4.  Thoughts?  Metadata is unedited and available if you choose to download the images.  Also - these exact images were sent to Canon on CD with the current service visit.

Now, on to the Tokina.  The performance actually IS somewhat front-focus consistent.  At 0-MF, the lens bumps infinity up a little bit, throwing everything beyond 4'-5' out of focus.  Everything within that distance is tack sharp.  Manual focus at infinity allows proper focus to be achieved.  Furthermore, adjusting MF to +20 seems to help... somewhat.  Performance is vastly improved with center-point focus, but the outer points are still bonkers.  Infinity focus is achieved for that center point (somewhat) consistently, which leads me to believe the Tokina is possibly outside the MF range.  Is this fixable?  Yet, the issue with the outer points leads me to believe a possible lens ID issue might also be at play.  Tokina samples are available at the same link above.

259

EOS Bodies / Re: 7D focusing question??

« on: May 15, 2011, 12:08:54 AM »

I dont know what happened since we last posted, however if you need to send equipment in to make sure it's fully up to par with Canon, great... however after that point, it may not be an equipment problem but a user problem if it still exists. ...As i've said in other posts, if you or anyone have questions, feel free to ask and or email me before giving up on a camera which may or may not be the problem.

Thanks for the detailed response Awin.  If my post seemed to be exuding frustration, it's because it was.    I've just seen enough of the "you-just-don't-understand-the-ultra-advanced-7D-to-use-it-properly" comments strewn about the internet on this issue, and I have little to no patience for them; regardless of how "helpful" the poster's intent may be. With respect to additional details, I've sent the body back twice now.  The first service resulted in no change, while the second trip proved to establish consistent and tack sharp focus with my 2 kit lenses (28-135 and 18-55) and my L series 70-200 f/2.8 II. 

Curiously, the problems remain with my 50mm.  MF adjustments fix the problem, but, and this is where it gets really weird, for only a short period of time.  After a random time period (sometimes a few minutes, a few hours, or even a few days), the focus goes bonkers again.  I explained this to the Canon service tech., and he was baffled.  Now, both my 50mm and the 7D are at Canon Irvine (at this very moment) to try to get to the bottom of this.

The saddest  situation, however, is my Tokina 11-16mm.  No type of MF adjustments can fix this baby.  When paired with the 7D it is just a total nightmare.  Focus is sometimes spot on, and then sometimes totally out the window.  There appears to be no rhyme or reason as to if/when/where it will focus, and it's driven me to madness.  Selected points will "lock" focus with 100% consistency, it's just that the resultant photo is rarely actually "focused" (a total mish-mash of front/back focus).  After a visit to THK service in California, the lens returned with a note saying "no work required - meets all manufacturer specifications."  I even called and got to speak with a Tokina tech. directly who said the 11-16mm should have no issue pairing with the 7D.  I've sent this letter/info on to Canon with its latest service, but not the lens, since I'm sure they won't touch non-Canon lenses.  This is the same 11-16 that performed flawlessly on my 40D.  So, to me, this seems very very bizarre.

Anyway - that's where I'm at.  3 of 5 lenses are now great.  50mm is so-so, but unreliable enough to be useless on paid gigs.  Tokina 11-16mm is totally useless, and will probably be sold if there are no improvements after the latest 7D service visit. 

However, I am more hopeful now than I have been regarding my future with this body.  A recent shoot at a nearby racetrack with my 70-200 has really boosted my spirits.  Even at 160th with AIservo and panning, she grabbed focus superbly.   >>  http://www.akphotodenver.com/client/mra711/download/7Dhope.jpg

Hopefully, all gets corrected in time.  I'm not bailing on Canon, or this body, just yet.  I'll keep you posted.

260

EOS Bodies / Re: 7D focusing question??

« on: May 13, 2011, 12:53:10 PM »

It's unfortunate to see this thread go down the similar path as those over at DPreview.com, which is an attitude of condescension and arrogance to those who complain of soft focus.  I'm truly amazed when I see posts pointing the blame at users who "haven't learned" how to use their 7D properly, "haven't read the manual", or are just simply too stupid for a "beast" such as the 7D after starting on a Rebel.  But when guys like Darwin Wiggett are reporting the exact same issue, it's hard for me to believe that he's a retard who has no idea how to use a camera.

This type of approach to users who clearly have repeatable problems with auto-focus is not only unhelpful, but says far more about those who are unable to provide legitimate advice, than those complaining of OOF images.  You get great images on your 7D?  Great, that doesn't mean everyone else with an AF problem is a moron. 

Tripod Focus Test, with remote shutter release >>  http://akphotodenver.com/images/7Dlenstest.jpg  (note:  I never - ever - had this problem on my 40D).
Sample Gallery >>  http://www.akphotodenver.com/client/claire/  (note:  Almost every image is focused on baby's eyelid, yet every image is clearly front focused 2-3 inches - especially at full res.  I used excessive clarity adjustments in some instances to try and hide the poor focus)

I have used a 10D, then a 40D, before ultimately upgrading to my 7D.  Never in my experience with digital cameras have I ever had to deal with so many non-keepers than I have with my 7D.  I shoot 99% of the time in full manual, custom preset, or aperture priority mode.  The bulk of my images are One Shot focus in the single shot shooting mode, with a manually selected single point of focus used (I just don't like the zone modes).  My 10D and 40D made tack sharp images using this approach, yet applying the same method to the 7D yields atrocious keeper rates.

I'd really be amazed that Canon would release a product that is so advanced that it takes a special person to learn how to use it.  That is simply a poor business model to implement.  "Yeah, we know most manufacturers sell products where you can open a camera box, put on a lens, select a manual focus point and shoot a sharp image - but - NAAAAH... we would NEVER want our camera to do THAT!"  I mean, do you really want me to believe that "typical" use of the 7D SHOULDN'T yield good results?  Come on.

___________________________________
PS:  I have a slew of sequential images that I submitted to Canon with my latest return to service.  Focus is all over the map in sequences of 6-8 shots, even with selected focus point on exact same subjcet - exact same distance from lens.  I'll post them when I get home tonight for review/comment.

261

EOS Bodies / Re: 7D focusing question??

« on: May 12, 2011, 05:41:16 PM »

The only thing I am concerned is sometimes it focuses great sometimes not. And then, I have to yet to get sharpest of images like I see on flickr or other forums with the same gear/settings.

Welcome to the world of the 7D.  See my post here.  And these articles here, and here, and here, and here.   Then cry when you realize you're outside of your return window.  But there's always warranty service if you want to start down that road.

Best of luck on your search for 7D sharp focus. 

 

262

EOS Bodies / Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again

« on: May 12, 2011, 01:43:51 PM »

My 7D body arrived at Canon Irvine facility this morning at 10:22 am for another round of service.  I'll post up next week after I get her back.  Hopefully I'll have good news to report.

263

EOS Bodies / Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again

« on: April 27, 2011, 06:43:24 PM »

Send it in if it'll help ya sleep better at night... read this article http://www.canonrumors.com/tech-articles/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-myths/ 

It talks about how if the body is just slightly off and the lens is just slight off in the other directions, (but within the acceptable range of variance) then the amounts can seem dramatic.  Also remember these can change slightly depending where you are and how much humidity, elevation, and frankly how much you use your lens and so the MA could be 15 one week, 18, the next, 10 the other.  It's a moving target, however that's why they put that in there to begin with.  Canon can definitely fine tune each and make sure they are closer to the sweet spot but dont forget even after that, the MA could change just to much even after, it's not really a defect in the lens as much as it's a change in the surrounding conditions affecting the lens.  I hope this helps and I'm glad it's functioning a little bit more reliable than before.   

Awin, thanks for the link - a good article indeed.

So let me ask you - do you think I'm being OCD?  Too much of a pixel peeper?  I guess I'm just having a hard time reconciling the performance of the 7D compared to my 40D where, with the same lenses, everything was sharp.  Granted - that was 10MP vs. 18MP - so I realize some details were missing on the 40D.  So perhaps it's not the best comparison.

What do you honestly think?  Is it worth the send-in, or should I just leave it be?

UPDATE:  I've just discovered that lighting plays a key role in the focusing accuracy issue on my 7D.  In broad daylight, and well lit interiors, focus is almost spot on at +16 --- and VERY consistent.  However, the misses start occurring in any kind of "less than perfect light".  This is even in a moderately lit room, with some natural light.  I did some tests in my office at work where I have some big fluorescent ceiling lights, and a large window.  It's not "dark" by any means (especially on a day like today in Denver, where I'm getting a lot of sunlight), but it's definitely not broad daylight.  In that scenario the misses start popping up, even when focusing on high contrast areas (e.g. book bindings on my bookshelf).  It seams as when the light gets "flat",  the AF system really starts to struggle... severely.  But hard sunlight really helps for providing sharp and consistent focus.  Anyone else have this experience?

264

EOS Bodies / Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again

« on: April 27, 2011, 05:05:05 PM »

Thanks for all the additional posts guys... I think I'm definitely going to be sending her in next week.

In addition to the +16, it seems that AF only works reliably about 45-55% of the time... which is still an improvement over the neutral setting.  Using the 50mm, focus is still random on some photos.  That is, sometimes images are focused, then a few are not.  I'm getting a combination of both front and back focusing still, even with the MFA set.  Very very weird.

With 50% consistency, it's better than the 10% I had earlier, so I can get by with this for the time being.  But I think I'm going to take neuroanatomist's advice, and send the body and all of my Canon lenses in for testing/calibration (when I have the time).  Something definitely seems amiss here.

265

EOS Bodies / Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again

« on: April 27, 2011, 11:56:16 AM »

Hey all...

I did some MFA's last night and got +16 and +14 on my 50mm f/1.8 and my Tokina 11-16 f/2.8, respectively.  The results are now damn sharp, but these settings seem VERY high to me.  Especially when I see people posting most settings in the 2-5 ranges. 

Does this seem normal?   

UPDATE:  This is weird... My EF-S kit lens (18-55) came in perfect - zero adjustments.  I have an important shoot scheduled next week so I need to hold on to my body and lenses for now, but I think I may send the 50mm in with the body after that.  That +16 and +14 bothers me a little.

266

EOS Bodies / Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again

« on: April 26, 2011, 07:14:54 PM »

Thanks for all of the info and advice everyone! 

This kind of feedback is certainly reassuring, and helping me come to terms with my 7D purchase.  Perhaps my 40D was just right on the tolerance line with my set of lenses.  I had the 7D boxed for another trip to Canon Service, but I'm going to unbox her instead and do some MF adjustments tonight.  Heck, they already made "electronic adjustments" to the AF assembly, probably not worth a second trip at this point.

I'll whip up a chart and calibrator tool and see what I come up with.  Thanks again!  I'm already feeling a heck of a lot better!! 

267

EOS Bodies / Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again

« on: April 26, 2011, 03:40:29 PM »

An adjustment of up to ±2 would probably not be 'absolutely necessary' in most situations.  But, an adjustment of ±4 means that the lens+body combo is off by approximately 1/2 the depth of field for shots at a 'normal' distance (i.e. not close to the MFD or infinity) - that's enough to be noticeable in typical shooting, at least for me.

I use the LensAlign Pro to do my AF microadjustment calibrations.

Wow... another awesome post!  Thanks neuroanatomist!!!!!!

268

EOS Bodies / Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again

« on: April 26, 2011, 03:27:30 PM »

It would be better to send Canon all your lenses and body so they can adjust them to match each other. I recently got two new lenses and check the focus to make sure the variances of the body and lenses were ok. Everything checked out. Read the article on the main page "This lens is soft..." Very informative.

Micro adjust will work just fine though. I think it will store the info for 20 different lenses.

I'm sorry you haven't had a good experience with the 7D. I love mine.

EYEONE...

Thank you so much for this post and the reference to the article.  I was always apprehensive about MF adjustments, as it was always described to me as a "last resort" type of thing that was a band-aid to a larger problem (lens issue? body issue? etc.).

It seems that manufacturing tolerances are there, and maybe I just got lucky in the past with my 40D.  I'm reading up on MF adjustment and plan to do some.  I'll report back my results.

Thanks again everyone for the support/posts!

269

EOS Bodies / Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again

« on: April 26, 2011, 02:23:49 PM »

I would agree that maybe micro adjust "all lens" or "body" (can't recall what the menu says). It looks like a bad front focus and probably the 10% good shots are when it "misses"?

Is that a proper "fix" though?  Manual says to avoid MF adjustments unless absolutely necessary.  Seems odd that a new body would be incompatible with so many lenses... no?

270

EOS Bodies / Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again

« on: April 26, 2011, 01:54:29 PM »

The firmware is now also available on the USA website.

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_7d#DriversAndSoftware

Thanks for the US link samskr.  Installing it now... fingers crossed that it does wonders for me!!  (not holding my breath)