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Messages - Redreflex

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Thank you all for the prompt and helpful replies. So first off, I need to qualify the "2000 photos" - apologies about the lack of info on my part. So in fact, with that example, I took 4700 photos, deleted 60+%, and am left with 1700 photos. How many photos one takes is dependent on a myriad of factors. I'll be the first to put my hand up to say that I can certainly cut down on the number (and I should!). However, my wife and I (and both our parents) treasure all these photos immensely, in part due to our love of the minutiae and multitude of facials expressions of our toddler son.

If and when I do upload photos on Facebook, it typically in numbers of <50. I occasionally extract some for printing calendars etc, but vast majority stay exclusively in a digital form.

I personally find that lightroom is excellent for handling large batches of images.  You can correct one image and then select all 2000 or just a few and apply the same corrections or just selected corrections to the whole batch in seconds.

I haven't been able to do that successfully in Aperture yet. I think a batch change of a maximum of 20-30 photos at a time is possible, because that is probably the limit of how many I'd take in a particular setting. Nonetheless, that'd be useful.

I flag the images according to my personal rating so that only the best ones are printed or uploaded to my website, no one would want to see 2000 photos.

Like I said I rate my pics first and start editing the best ones first... There's also no real reason to edit the photos that you don't plan on doing anything with except saving them to look at later.

The second batch are the "portfolio" images. These are the ones that I think I may want to include in my collection of personal bests. Of course, there is likely to be some overlap, so I may give these an initial post-processing with the intent of going back later and fine-tuning them.

Yes agree with all of you. Rating/grouping helps tremendously. So from that example of 1700 photos I've got left, 241 are rated 3 star or better (out of 5). OK, that's a slightly more manageable number. But actually, even to go through each of those 241 photos, and spend say 2 (very conservative) minutes on each, that's 482 minutes, or just over 6 hours. Wow, that's a lot of time to spend processing photos.

I probably tend to spend between 15 minutes and 30 minutes per image for those that I consider are worth processing. However I have spend many hours on a few very special shots. These tend to be images that need extremely careful, subtle "massaging" to draw out the best.

I certainly don't process all my RAW images, only those that I believe deserve the effort.  But I enjoy the time I spend doing all this and certainly don't consider it work. Each image is processed entirely on it's own merits. with no bulk processing. 

I take my hat off to you - you must be a perfectionist! If I do put in 15-30 minutes on each... wow... I'd have to give up my real job.

My average over time is ~250 shots/week (spread across 5DII/7D/S95), and I spend a fair bit of time with post processing.  The first step is triage - as Mt Spokane Photography stated, no one wants to see all your images, and you probably don't want to keep them all.  A personal pet peeve is the photographic equivalent of babbling - Flickr or Smugmug pages filled with multiple versions of the same basic image.  Edit, edit, edit.  Pick the best, most memorable images from a set and toss the rest. 

So 250/week would be completely out of the question for me - I'd certainly feel I've missed out on capturing stuff I'd really like to have for keeps. Thankfully (for you neuro! :P), I don't upload photos onto any Flickr-type sites.

Personally, I use Aperture for triage, DxO for global adjustments (exposure, corrections, etc.) and RAW conversion, and Photoshop CS5 for selective editing, and back to Aperture for library organization.  It's a somewhat complex workflow, to be honest, but it gives me the results I want.

I'm stating the obvious, but I presume you find the adjustments functionality less than adequate on Aperture, even though it's not an amateur photo management/editing programme?

With Aperture, do you have 1 large library? Or do you have multiple libraries across several external drives? I fear I have to consider the latter soon, as these 25-30MB RAW files are just eating my hard disk for breakfast.

At some point, I'll have moved on to the next shoot (for me, these are self-assignments since I don't do this for money). I will have processed the images that I know I want and I can let the other 1,950 or so images sit untouched on my hard drive, secure in the knowledge that they will be there if I ever get the time to revisit them.

That's the problem I have right now. Photos that aren't bad enough to delete, but just taking up too much space! Gotta use that DELETE button more.

I guess there isn't a panacea for my photography woes! What I'll need to do is:

1. Organise photos better. Continue to use Aperture as my library. More vigorous rating and deleting.
2. Processing photos. Establish a system. Looks like I'll eventually have to give in to a Lightroom / DxO / Photoshop, as the consensus from other threads on this forum appears to be that noise reduction (amongst other things) is significantly better than Aperture. It's disappointing, because I was under the impression I can do vast majority of editing with Aperture. Yet another software interface to have to deal with!

So what about DPP? It seems pretty impressive in terms of being able to more finely apply/adjust various in-camera settings like white balance etc in the comforts of your computer. I guess you guys don't find it all that useful?

And when you take a photo into LR/Photoshop/DxO, in what order do you typically adjust a photo? Exposure, highlights/shadows, then NR, then curves, then xxx? Because I so rarely adjust photos, I know next to nothing about how to really do it properly... I do a little exposure adjustment and that's about it!

Out of curiosity and of my current struggles of working out the most efficient way of dealing with my rapidly accumulating photos, how much time/effort do people spend on post-processing in general?

I take family/toddler/travel photos purely as a hobbyist. I can see a huge difference in IQ of my 7D captured photos between in-camera jpg and RAW captures. So all I do is shoot in RAW, download to Aperture, do the occasional exposure adjustment, and that's it. I then export to jpg as required. Can't imagine doing the multitude of adjustments that are possible with Aperture, let alone more sophisticated software like Photoshop, LR, DxO etc. I know you can run macro changes to batch of photos. That's still a lot of post-processing time, if you consider I typically take 2000 photos on a 2 week vacation.

I accept that it's difficult to generalise these things, but how much post-processing do you do, either in terms of time, or number of steps? What would you realistically do for a batch of 2000 personal travel/holiday photos which would include a mixture of indoors/outdoors, people/landscape/architecture, all shot in RAW?

Suggestions would be 1) Shoot in RAW and 2) get something better than Canon's DPP for RAW conversions.  Personally, I find that DxO Optics Pro does a much better job at NR than DPP or Adobe Camera RAW.  DxO also does a great job of removing the barrel distortion you're now noticing, without sacrificing sharpness.  If you want to stick with Adobe, there are plugins like Noise Ninja and Topaz Denoise that will help, and are also superior to DPP.

Out of curiosity, has anyone demonstrated a like for like comparison of noise reduction between DPP and some of the programmes you mentioned? Sorry a little off topic

I haven't seen any.  The thing with noise reduction, is that one of the versiona may be superior on a particular image, while on a different image, something else works better.

Some of the NR software allows you to use layers, so that you can use heavy nr on areas that lack detail and go lighter where you need to retain detail.

Its not simply which is best, but which works better for what you do.  Lightroom 3 really improved their noise reduction, and for general use, its one of the best.  LR2 was not really that good at NR.

You will see lots who prefer one over the other and declare theirs to be the best.  For them, it is.

Here is one reasonably recent comparison, but its over a year old and vastly out of date, I believe it reviews LR2, and not the vastly improved LR3.  NR is a moving target and they are all improving.


Thank you. Interesting. I do have more questions on post-processing in general... actually... I think I'll start a new thread since I'm about to take this way off topic!

Suggestions would be 1) Shoot in RAW and 2) get something better than Canon's DPP for RAW conversions.  Personally, I find that DxO Optics Pro does a much better job at NR than DPP or Adobe Camera RAW.  DxO also does a great job of removing the barrel distortion you're now noticing, without sacrificing sharpness.  If you want to stick with Adobe, there are plugins like Noise Ninja and Topaz Denoise that will help, and are also superior to DPP.

Out of curiosity, has anyone demonstrated a like for like comparison of noise reduction between DPP and some of the programmes you mentioned? Sorry a little off topic

Canon General / Re: What?? A SCAM INVOLVING A CANON T3i??
« on: July 31, 2011, 05:01:32 PM »
And Yet, yesterday, I answered a Craigslist ad for a Canon 35-350mm L for $500.  It turned out to be a local photographer I have bought from before.  The lenses often sell for $1000 or more, but he saw dust in the lens, it had some minor paint dings,  and he did not want to try to sell it on ebay.

Actually, the dust was on the outside of the rear element and cleaned off nicely.  The lens is well used and has some tiny tick marks on the paint, but the glass is perfect.

So, you may have to kiss a lot of frogs, but there are some good deals as well.

I agree. And I have had a similar experience to you on Craigslist - just this week, I purchased a very good condition 2nd hand L lens for 35% less than the current retail price. In my limited experience, I think most 2nd hand L lenses tend to sell for within 10% of the retail price.

Which is why I responded to that "too good to be true" Craigslist T3i ad, hoping that it would be yet another steal, which've been perfect for the father-in-law. Alas, it was not to be!

Canon General / Re: What?? A SCAM INVOLVING A CANON T3i??
« on: July 31, 2011, 01:29:00 PM »

As I usually do on such trips, I check in with the local Craigslist and take a quick look at the photo/video section to see what's up (or '"sup" as the kids say).


Then several days later (to make a long story even longer), I received 3 emails (each originating from the 3 addresses) from three different people -- but each email said the same thing:

"Hey, Sorry for replying so late..i just met someone up and sold it
If your still trying to find one at a discount, i found mine at  "This Site".
They still have the 4th of july promo for 10 free bids and i just signed up and won.
Trick i found was to bid only when counter hits 4 seconds.
hope i was able to help

"This Site" was a link to an online auction site.  All three emails were identical, but with different sender names.

Gee whiliakers... a scam to direct me to an auction site ... Whoda-thunk?

Sounds familiar! Here's the result of my email enquiry to a recent Craiglist Detroit T3i listing for $450:

Sorry for replying so late..someone stopped by yesterday and picked it up

If your still looking for one at a sick discount, i bought mine at  THIS SITE

They still have the summer promo for 10 free bids and i just signed up and won two, which is why I was selling one. Since school's been out very few people are bidding.

Trick to winning everytime is to bid only when counter hits 4 seconds.
Seriously if I can do it anyone can
Mary Keller"

Lesson for me: if it sounds almost too good to be true, then it is!

EOS Bodies / Re: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]
« on: July 30, 2011, 12:24:25 PM »
There are tons of things that could be in a camera, GPS, WiFi, Bluetooth, radio flash transmitter, and so on.  They all take space and power(read larger battery).  At the same time many users are wanting smaller cameras, they also want features that will make them bigger and heavier.

I'd certainly like to have all the things I listed above, even if it takes a 1D sized body.  I do not expect to get them all in the near future.

A add-on grip that did them all might be acceptable, if it powered them separately so that it did not drain the main camera battery.

A very interesting lateral thought - an add-on grip with bolt-on functions. I wonder how technically feasible that is.

EOS Bodies / Re: 1Ds Mark IV Dimensions Outed?
« on: July 28, 2011, 08:16:48 PM »
I'm amazed it was even spotted!

Canon General / Re: Lets Play Chess
« on: July 21, 2011, 09:59:40 AM »
Absolutely hilarious!!!!

EOS Bodies / Re: Biased Reviewing & the consequences.
« on: July 14, 2011, 11:28:11 PM »
Just on TDP, it's a canon review site. he only reviews canon. any time he mentions nikon he says he doesn't own/use much nikon, if any.

Like Ken Rockwell and Nikons? Even though he also reviews canons...

Lenses / Re: New lens or body?
« on: July 06, 2011, 08:40:24 PM »
Hello everyone,

Right now I have an XSi and three different lenses : 70-300 f/4-5.6 IS, 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 IS (kit lens) and 100 f/2.8 Macro.

It's exactly what I've been mulling over for the past 6-8 months. Like you, I have the EOS 450D (= Xsi). Just over 6 months ago, I had the kit lens and 50mm f/1.8. In pursuit of better quality images (following marked improvement from a couple of photography courses / seminars - I'd recommend doing something like this), I mulled over a new body vs lens. I went down the latter route. I now have the 24-70mm f/2.8L, 135mm f/2L and 24mm f/1.4L. I shoot a range of things, but particularly indoors (some low light) of my active 2 year old toddler.

There was a noticeable leap in my picture quality with the better lenses. It's only now, several months after my last lens purchase, that I feel I'm pushing the limit of the Xsi body.

Thus, I vehemently agree with the other posts - better lenses first (not giving specific suggestions - others probably better placed to do so). You'll be surprised by how much more you can get out of the Xsi with better lenses. And I'm still working on improving my composition etc etc... am ready for a new body... but still very happy with the photos I'm getting in good light with my expanded set of lenses.

There's also the option of DIY - makeshift rain covers can be made from a cheap plastic bag or even hotel shower caps.

By the way, I'd recommend bringing both lens paper/cloth and a rocket blower. The blower is actually faster (blow the waterdrops to the peripherals) and leaves no traces compared to wiping the lens.


1. How do you seal around the hood, so water doesn't get in that way? Assumption here is that you've got an opening at the front so your lens has a clear line of sight rather than going through plastic.
2. Do you tend to work the camera controls through the plastic, or place your hands under?

Good tip about the rocket blower vs a physical wipe.

was at the maid of the mist last week and one thing is to protect your gear. Another thing is the gonna be lots of spray on the front of the lens. So you will have to bring a dry cloth and its not just a little spray its a lot almost like hard rain

What did you use to protect your gear, whilst shooting?

Software & Accessories / Rain / water spray cover for Canon 450D/XSi?
« on: June 29, 2011, 01:03:58 PM »
Hello all,

Planning a trip on the Maid of the Mist at Niagara in 1-2 months - ride comes with a rain coat, so I'm expecting a lot of spray! What have you found to be useful 'housing' for this sort of thing?

I'll have with me a Canon XSi and probably with a 28-70mm f/2.8L lens. I found the OpTech Rainsleeve on Amazon for USD12 - have you used this? (http://www.amazon.com/OpTech-Rainsleeve-2-Pack-Bundle-Cameras/dp/B0047PS812/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1309366418&sr=8-4)


EOS Bodies / Re: My totally scientific announcement date prediction.
« on: June 22, 2011, 11:09:00 PM »
I like it, although using that methodology, none of your predictions for 2011 fall in the months of August or September, the 2 busiest announcement months in the second half of the year!

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