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Messages - awinphoto

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1726
This whole debate is moot if the OP comes back and says the school wants her to shoot 35mm film for the first year or so...  Please get clarification on that... then once you got that figured out, see if your school have a free rental dept and can rent both digitals as your classes get to digital.  Heck by that time the 5d mark III may be out and you can purchase that, case closed. 

1727
EOS Bodies / Re: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]
« on: July 26, 2011, 10:23:34 AM »
February 2012 would be the earliest for an announcement that will address the 5D line.

So, everyone who said, "I'm not getting a 5DII because the 5DIII is coming out soon," keep on waiting.  Because as we all know, vaporware cameras take wonderful pictures, don't they?

I can wait with what I got... I still dont want/need to buy the 5DII yet.  Now if i didn't have CPS then it could force my hand in the purchase but until then, I can wait.  As long as my clients are happy with my work so far. 

1728
EOS Bodies / Re: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]
« on: July 26, 2011, 10:21:23 AM »
You mean the 5DIII won't be released before the 1DsIV?  Shocking, simply shocking.   :P

What if there never is a 1Ds4 but there is a merged 1D5 (FF 28MP @ 6FPS with internal cropping to APS-H @10FPS, $5500) introduced in about a month, is your prediction right or wrong? And what exactly is a 5D3? Even Canon doesn't seem to know. What if Canon introduces a $3000 FF 16-20MP Lord of Darkness camera simultaneously with the 1D5?

I'm less critical than I may sound but, if you're going to make predictions, please make them with enough detail that we can determine if they're right or wrong.

Then again CR never claimed a new flagship was coming soon period, just that the 5D MIII wont be until feb... So maybe the 5D  still will be released before the 1ds.   ;D  The only hint about the 1ds was it was removed from the website... didn't that happen some time last year and then reappeared a few days later?

1729
Speaking from one that's gone your route (graduated Brooks Institute, your schools competition in, 2004), I have a few bits of advice and clarification.  When I started in the early 2001, they required a 35mm film camera.  By the time I graduated, they didn't have that requirement anymore because they were in the process of going strictly digital, which was a decision I opposed at the time.  While I was there, the first half of my time was dedicated to film and fundamentals... 35mm, 4x5's, medium format, studio, advanced studio, lighting, portraiture, strobes, etc... My school had a large rental dept that was free to students for 3 day rentals on most equipment, however the popular stuff got taken quickly so if you really liked a certain piece, they suggested you get a student loan and buy the gear to insure you always had them for your disposal. 

I dont know if your school has a darkroom or still emphasizes film, and if so, odds are they want you to get a film camera.  I wouldn't stress too much over the film camera as long as it's manual with a manual sync for strobes and hotshoe.  If your school says it's fully digital, which it might be, then ask if they require full frame or if aps-c is acceptable. 

Make sure you go into the school and this profession with your eyes wide open.  It used to be the joke amongst pro photographers you needed to marry a sugar momma or daddy to support your profession until you get the one shot that gets you your first big break.  While I would like to say a lot has changed from then, this is still a very aggressive saturation of pro photographers and hobbyist photographers who would think it would be the cat's meow to take jobs away from a pro and get a few bucks for their work.  Can you blame them?  No, but it does eat away from our potential earning potential.  If you want proof of this, go to your local yellow pages and search under photographers or photography... look at the pages of competition.  Most will not have the technical quality you and I would have, but consumers dont care if the photographer is really good at marketing and sales.  You need to develop a style and niche that would make people to want to choose you rather than joe blow down the street. 

Lastly, you mention that you are getting married shortly, please make sure your significant other is fully prepared for the profession of professional photography.  I met my wife while I was at school and while we were dating I kept warning her how expensive photography was, but it wasn't until AFTER we were married and the cost of camera gear were being budgeted in our expenses that she really understood how expensive photography was.  Every time I upgrade lenses and cameras she gets humbled.  I hear from a lot of professional photographers that the cost of gear for newly weds and starting up photographers can be a big issue with finances so please make sure your fiancee is fully prepared for the costs to be a pro photographer. 

Good luck and if you have more questions or concerns, feel free to reply or send me an email regarding school. 

1730
Lenses / Re: why????
« on: July 25, 2011, 03:14:18 PM »
Believe me when I say i am holding my breath on such a camera.  I have the funding set aside and while I would prefer to hold off until a 5d 3, if i dont see any camera POSSIBILITY within the next quarter, I may have to get a mark II and unload it when the mark III comes out...

Since I am not a pro I have the luxury to wait. In your case, you will have to do some gain/loss evaluations by getting the 5DII and sell it later. I doubt we will see a 5DIII in the next quarter, but we might get an announcement. Monitoring Nikon should help us find out more about the 5DIII expectations and release dates. I expect an announcement and maybe even a release of the D700 replacement within this year. But this is just an educated guess, nothing more.

I do shoot professionally and as of right now, my 7D is quite serviceable for 99% of all my clients needs right now.  Switching to the 5D would be more of a personal preference because of the full frame sensor and the little bit more ISO/IQ i'd get from such a camera.  In the time being i also have CPS in my back pocket to get loaners of 5d's and 1d's if and when a shoot pops up in which i need that camera... I can wait longer if needed, I just wish canon will "show their cards" soon. 

1731
Canon General / Re: What?? A SCAM INVOLVING A CANON T3i??
« on: July 25, 2011, 03:09:46 PM »
I've had reasonable success with ebay and craigslist but you have to be educated in your purchases and use common sense.  In the early days of ebay universities did studies on how people would OVERBID because of the "heat of the moment" bidding and the "i got to have this" rather than thinking of how much it really is worth and your limits on what your willing to spend.  With ebay you can see ratings and get a better idea how reputable a seller is whereas craigslist is more anonymous so extra precaution needs to be taken such as seeing the item before handing over money.  There are great deals out there but you need to do your homework first. 

1732
Lenses / Re: why????
« on: July 25, 2011, 02:27:34 PM »

5D series and the xxd series arguably have dropped a few hundred here or there but sure enough when a new camera is ready to be released everyone speculates how high the new prices will go up, hence people on this forum speculating the 5d m3 will go up due to new technology with some saying it could be a few hundred to 1000 more.  I hope it stays at the current price or drops in price, but that's me wishing for too much.  =)

The 5DIII, will get similar launch price to the 5DII launch price, with small price difference. I think there is a bigger possibility of a small price decrease rather an increase. Exchange rate can effect the price too.

It is true that prices are not decreasing in such a fast rate, but the price decrease are not necessary going to happen gradually. They can occur by model re-positioning such as 60D, or new models such as 5D. Then these lower spec cameras will just continue to improve, such as the 5DII and the future 5DIII. We are expecting the 5DIII to have a better image quality than the old 1DsIII, with good enough AF and FPS. By time maybe the 5D series will get 100% viewfinder, 1Ds weather sealing, and eventually we will end up with a 5D being better than the old 1Ds but with the price of the 5D. I consider this as a price decrease.

Believe me when I say i am holding my breath on such a camera.  I have the funding set aside and while I would prefer to hold off until a 5d 3, if i dont see any camera POSSIBILITY within the next quarter, I may have to get a mark II and unload it when the mark III comes out...

1733
Lenses / Re: why????
« on: July 25, 2011, 01:51:17 PM »
What else going to happen ? Cameras will advance such a way that they will get AI, start taking photos by themselves, and eventually they will take control of the world, and enslave human beings  :)

Well in that case it better program my DVR and have my coffee ready for me in the morning when I wake up.  Also if it can read my mind to auto focus for me and shoot the camera when i think it.  =)  I'm sure prices will drop but not as fast as anyone would want... case in point the Canon 1ds and Canon 1D, when they first came out in the early 2000's, they were pretty much at the same price point as they are now.  They have not dropped in price compared to current offerings at all.  We are getting at almost a decade since those cameras graced the scene and we haven't seen price drops in the top tier cameras.  5D series and the xxd series arguably have dropped a few hundred here or there but sure enough when a new camera is ready to be released everyone speculates how high the new prices will go up, hence people on this forum speculating the 5d m3 will go up due to new technology with some saying it could be a few hundred to 1000 more.  I hope it stays at the current price or drops in price, but that's me wishing for too much.  =)

1734
Lenses / Re: why????
« on: July 25, 2011, 12:49:51 PM »
I disagree with the thought of the crop sensor cameras going away any time soon.

10 year flashback - remember all those folks who said film cameras would never go away?  Granted, they're not completely gone, yet.  But then, there are still some people using rotary phones, and I'm sure you can find a working teletype or two somewhere in the world.

When (becuase it's not 'if' it's 'when') full frame sensor cameras drop down into the sub-$1000 range and thus into the mainstream consumer price range, APS-C will die off.  EF-S lenses?  They'll just join FD's on the auction block.

While I would wish and hope that full frame sensors become the norm and drop sub $1000, i just have the feeling that wont be for another 5-10 years... The cheapest full frame camera now is what?  $2500?  Well, correction, NEW full frame camera disregarding the used market.  With the increased MP and technology going into these sensors, I would think that they would have to either dumb down a full frame sensor to go into a rebel or really cripple the featureset more than it already is to afford to justify putting a full frame sensor in... perhaps full auto with just a shutter button?  All kidding aside I cant see that happening.  I could see the 7D and xxD series getting the change before entry level... at least they could then justify price increases in market prices, but until then...

1735
Canon General / Re: hello, and another request for suggestions
« on: July 24, 2011, 11:00:55 PM »
I hear a lot of pros that say the 5d af in lowlight is shoot and pray, but it also depends on the speed the the lens using. 2.8 lenses will give better af than 5.6 lenses.

Too bad they do not own one.   The 5d MK II AF is better than the 7D, the 1D MK III, and the 1D MK IV in low light.  I have a 1D MK III and a 7D, as well as a 5D MK III, the 1D is close, but not quite up to it.  The 7D can't even take a decent image at ISO 6400, much less focus.

Well just throwing the lens advice out there for consideration for future purchases. Regarding the 7d in low light, I can at least say the af with good lenses is good up to 1600-3200. Iso has minor noise that easily is taken care of with NR and or other means. I shoot 100% professionally and really don't get all the hate on it's ISO compared to other cameras in this price bracket and the 5d. The AF is very good (for me) in low light. It's up to individual expectations and experience level.

1736
Canon General / Re: hello, and another request for suggestions
« on: July 24, 2011, 03:21:25 PM »
Like others said, I wouldn't take any dslr running with u unless you like bruises from it banging the side of your body. I've heard pilot/aviation photogs that shoot while flying saying IS on lenses is worthless cause all the vibration and the only way to work around it is shutterspeed. The 7d has a much better af than the 60d. In good to ok light the 7d will have better af than the 5d. In lowlight it can be a wash. I hear a lot of pros that say the 5d af in lowlight is shoot and pray, but it also depends on the speed the the lens using. 2.8 lenses will give better af than 5.6 lenses.

1737
Canon General / Re: Suggestions for a difficult choice
« on: July 22, 2011, 11:59:56 AM »
Neuro, if you were to take the 7D sensor dimensions and apply that to the same 7D sensor dimensions, that is what I was applying with the "digital zoom" affect... P&S uses a smaller portion of the sensor to create that affect and with their processors, interpolates it to appear to be a normal size file, but in some P and S cameras, the physical size of the camera cannot interpolate it, such as entry level P and S and camera phones, the file is cropped and left as that.  It displays on the LCD as zoomed but in raw information, all it is, is cropped.  I suppose if you take similar density cameras, 20d and 5d mii, compare file size and effective resolution, it would be similar proportions to what I am describing... 

"Slightly cropped?  I'd say more than slightly - it will be cropped by a factor of 1.6x.  I was assuming that the subject chosen for the scenario was small enough to fit within the APS-C portion of the image circle." 

-Exactly what I was getting at... in order to compare magnification and overall image between the cameras they needed to be equaled out so they can be as apples to apples as possible... however the 5D in most situations SHOULD out-resolve the 7D in that situation.  In your original post you were comparing the 5d to 20d and 5d to the 7d... I was getting that the 7D and 5D should be very similar in magnification and the 5d should have more "magnification"  because of effective resolution assuming everything is equaled out.  I was also getting that even if you compared the 7D to the 20D, the magnification would be identical in perspective, but you can "zoom" into the picture more because the 7d has more than double the MP than the 20D hence more detail and more room to crop in post.  Most people assume when talking about magnification, the overall image is somewhat altered or different perspective overall but I'm just confirming the 7D and 20D will have the same perspective/image/overall magnification... the 7D will just have a ton more information to work with and you can zoom in a lot closer. 

1738
Canon General / Re: Suggestions for a difficult choice
« on: July 22, 2011, 10:51:44 AM »
... it will crop the image so it appears to be closer but really isn't... in all reality.  ...It outputs the exact same info it would send to ANY camera but depending on if the camera see's all of the info or not will depending on how the camera "sees" the image. 

Also keep in mind given the high density of the 7D,

But that higher pixel density does result in apparent magnification.  For example, if you choose FF vs. APS-C with the same pixel size/density, e.g. comparing a 200mm lens on a 5DII vs. a 20D (21 MP vs. 8 MP, but same pixel size), and take pictures of the same subject at the same distance then view them 100% on your computer monitor, that subject will be the same size in both images (although the 20D image will show less of the background).  But if you do something similar with the 5DII vs. the 7D, the subject at 100% will appear much larger on your computer monitor, because that subject projected onto the 7D's sensor will cover a lot more pixels.

Actually thinking of your comparison, you are wrong in your analogy and i'll tell you why... The 20D despite having the same density will be slightly cropped than the 5D taken at the same distance and same focal length and settings...  Now assuming you are shooting a 20D and 7D at the same settings... If you take that file and PRINT it as is at 8x10 for each file adjusting DPI so you are printing the full frame within the 8x10, there will NOT be any magnification, they should be the same because the SIZE of the sensor has not changed.  The 7D vs 20D SHOULD show more overall detail and you could in fact take the 7d file, crop it tighter (just like additional digital cropping effect) and have a similar quality of print of a 20D vs a cropped picture from a 7D and you'll be able to see detail you couldn't see from a 20D because of size of sensor density, BUT the overall image should still be the same, you just have more detail and information to work with. 

Now if you take the 7D vs 5D mII and use different lenses or compensate so they are the same perspective and relation, the image overall, printed the same way at 8x10 within the same restraints will still be the same image, no magnification.  Level of detail maybe a lot closer because the effective resolutions are so similar 18mp vs 21mp and in theory you should have a hair more detail from you 21mp than the 18mp.  If you do NOT correct for the Focal length effective "digital crop" then yes, you will have magnification as far as the crop is concerned. 

1739
Canon General / Re: Suggestions for a difficult choice
« on: July 22, 2011, 10:43:58 AM »
... it will crop the image so it appears to be closer but really isn't... in all reality.  ...It outputs the exact same info it would send to ANY camera but depending on if the camera see's all of the info or not will depending on how the camera "sees" the image. 

Also keep in mind given the high density of the 7D,

But that higher pixel density does result in apparent magnification.  For example, if you choose FF vs. APS-C with the same pixel size/density, e.g. comparing a 200mm lens on a 5DII vs. a 20D (21 MP vs. 8 MP, but same pixel size), and take pictures of the same subject at the same distance then view them 100% on your computer monitor, that subject will be the same size in both images (although the 20D image will show less of the background).  But if you do something similar with the 5DII vs. the 7D, the subject at 100% will appear much larger on your computer monitor, because that subject projected onto the 7D's sensor will cover a lot more pixels.

It appears as magnification the same way a digital P&S applies digital zoom... (but digital P&S sensors are not as sophisticated and up to date in processors) so the digital zoom looks crappy as a result. 

1740
Canon General / Re: Suggestions for a difficult choice
« on: July 22, 2011, 10:21:51 AM »
all depends how far away you are....  the 7d has the 1.6 crop factor so for distance will boost your 70-200 to a max of 320mm...  5dmk2 no crop factor, so that'd be the decision maker for me.

i do hope that visitors of this forum realise that crop factor does not mean one can multiply crop factor with focal lenght of lens. 55mm is 55mm regardless of crop factor. so when 200 mm is put on 1.6 crop factor camera image is no closer, just croped because it is being projected on smaller sensor, so more detail is being lost then on ff sensor. that means 200 mm on 1.6 crop sensor is still 200mm lens. it will never become 320mm because it does not zoom in more, it just crops image.

As long as you work under good light conditions and the higher light gathering capability of a FF sensor can be neglected (from what I have seen on the 7d up to maybe ISO 1250) the camera stays competitive to a 5d MKII as the 7d acts like a (theoretical) 18MP x 1.6^2 = 46MP FF camera for the croped part if would be scaled up to FF sensor. The question I would be more concerned here is with the theoretical limit of lenses if it really comes down to this. if higher ISO capabilities become important that is of course another story ... 
However in reality I guess few ppl look at pictures this way, so I guess the 1.6 magnification that the 7d delivers is good enough for most persons who just want to have a longer Telephoto range for eg occasional wildlife without spending a fortune on a 500, 600 or 800mm lens   

but there is noooo magnification whatsoever. none.

The best way to think of it (for those who ever used crappy digital PS cameras)... it's like digital zoom... it will crop the image so it appears to be closer but really isn't... in all reality.  The lens doesn't magically get extra elements and magnify an image just because it senses it's on a crop camera... It outputs the exact same info it would send to ANY camera but depending on if the camera see's all of the info or not will depending on how the camera "sees" the image. 

Also keep in mind given the high density of the 7D, it can produce stunning images but it will require stunning lenses.  If you use the 7D with the kit lens 28-135 at high ISO, it's going to look like crap.  If you use the 7D with L primes at high ISO, it will yield more usable images.  At then end of the day, I still say between the two, get the 7D or 60D, get some awesome glass, and then later if the 5d m3 comes out, then all means sell the 7D and get it.  Glass will be as big if not bigger factor in overall image than the camera will be in most situations. 

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