July 31, 2014, 03:57:46 PM

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Messages - awinphoto

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46

Anywho, for what it's worth, i sent a link of this thread to CPS...  dont know what or if things can change now that they have let things get out of control, but one can hope.

Seriously? LOL.
+1 :)
So what you´re actually saying is that You want Canon to give You and your peers, with less gear, meaning you have spent less money with Canon, exclusive right to their services (and more, faster and better, please), of which you are the heavy and costly users, excluding others who are spending more money with Canon, but use less of their services :o

i am not surprised if you find it difficult to make money ...

not at all my friend, not at all... Just holding their feet to the fire... Change your rules to either expand services to all people or enforce the rules already on the books... Just dont pretend to be a professional service if you are not.

47

Anywho, for what it's worth, i sent a link of this thread to CPS...  dont know what or if things can change now that they have let things get out of control, but one can hope.

Seriously? LOL.

Lastly John, i could have done your same thing...  I could have done what my parents wanted me to do and join the Navy.  I could have gone to some Community college and gotten some other training... But as a kid, every day my dad would come home pissing and moaning about his work, how much he hated it, how much he was doing it to support the family, you know, being a martyr... I swore I would NEVER allow myself to do that.  I would do what I wanted to do how I wanted to do it and live my life.  I didn't settle and now i'm working in the best job (for me) that I could have.  I didn't "SUCK IT UP", i did everything i can be a professional in every sense of the word.  How many people can truely say they are doing what they love?  Not many. 

BUT, in the end, a photographers sucess and endorsements go a long way in marketing, two big examples are Sandy Puc (Canon) and Doug Gordon (Nikon), and then you have some betweeners like Tamera Lackey and Bambi Contrell who at some point in their career shot with both systems.  When Doug wins an award, Nikon is always praised, when Sandy when her awards, Canon is brought up...  Professional Services are meant to aid and support their professional base.  They aren't stupid...  Endorsements are key, especially if they dont have to pay them, they just give them the best support possible.  While I'm not in the same league as many of these world class photographers, I do aspire to get there some day and thats why they cater (nikon and canon alike) to their professional base.  It's not that pro's are any more important than any other consumer, but they know that when a pro, me or anyone else, is asked by a typical consumer, "hey, what gear do you use"... that professional endorsement goes a long way in whether that consumer goes to costco and buys a rebel or a nikon.   

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CPS is aimed for Professionals, and i'm sure if they were to find out that you were not a professional, you could lose your status.  Being both a professional and a CPS member, i find threads like these kind of sad, but, for those who take advantage and bend the rules for your own gain, karma always comes back around...
CPS is a service to those who spend enough money on Canon´s pro gear. Wether you´re a pro, an enthusiast or a wealthy gadget collector does not matter. To exclude non-pros would be very poor judgement.

Wrong.  according to Canon CPS, Membership is available only to those individuals (self-employed or employed by a professional imaging business), who plays a direct role in the creation of moving or still images for third parties on a full-time basis and are legal residents of the 50 United States, the District of Columbia (and Puerto Rico as of January 31, 2014).

That is directly from their own FAQ.  You are correct, i've gone to many events, Weddings, Parties, etc where guests, like neuro, has better gear than myself...  The difference is i'm getting paid and entrusted by the hosts of the event to provide the images for the event, wedding, whatever the case may be.  My gear is critical to my families income so I cannot have them go down or i'm out of business.  CPS is aimed to help us working professionals so we can experiment with new gear, buy new gear, and help us if our gear goes down to get it back up and running the best way possible.

Again, let us all be reminded that Canon is a business. One with a lot of people that have monetary interest in. The goal of any business is to make money. If you don't like the way the program is being run, I would think the correct direction to aim your frustration would be the company themselves for setting it up this way.

You defining or saying that CPS is for.... is mere conjecture on your part as you have no idea what their business model is or what their true intentions for CPS are. You appear to simply be upset at the fact that they are not running it the way YOU see fit and have somehow decided that it is the amateur consumer's fault.

FWIW
I keep hearing the mention of how if photography is someone's main source of income and their livelihood depends on it, their needs are inherently more important. Well hell, I once had the dream of being a photographer for a living as well. Instead, I sucked it up and took on a career doing something I could care less about so that I could fund what I loved to do instead. And now, I have the money for the gear and a membership only to have people like you try to tell me that I'm somehow bending the rules or taking advantage for my own selfish gain at your expense.

I'll tell you what. If photography were my chosen profession and things were the way they are, I wouldn't so much cry about it as I would be working to find a way to make more money so that I wouldn't have to worry so much when my gear does go out. But that's just me.

Yes John, Seriously... They need to know what their general customer base thinks of their products and services... They replied saying they have forwarded it to the management... so, if they agree with your motto, they will leave it be, if they dont, then they will wake up and make some changes to their policies.  It's not whether or not they are doing it MY way or not, it's about doing it according to their own rules and regs. 

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...What does seem to be the case is that they have assessed their resources at CPS and come to the conclusion that it is a good business decision for them to have more customers in their program.

Does Canon's defacto policy truly deplete the available resources for professionals, or does expanding the membership allow them to keep the program open for professionals. I suspect it is the latter.

In the old days, Canon and Nikon probably ran their professional services programs as loss leaders. They probably didn't make money on the service, but used other resources to subsidize it so they could keep their professional base content. But, that was in the days when there was a large professional base and profit margins were more generous.

In today's business world, every division and every subdivision has to justify it's existence and demonstrate some contribution to the bottom line. That's just how businesses are run today. I strongly suspect that management looked at CPS and determined that it could not be sustained based on the traditional model, so they had to find a way to make it self-sustaining and this is it.

So really, while I know it is frustrating for someone who was invited to the wedding, to go and find a bunch of riffraff who got in by slipping some cash under the table, try to remember that if it weren't for that riffraff you would be eating Chicken instead of Filet Mignon.

Fair enough statement, but the latest changes to CPS. for instance their loaner policies, a few months ago were cited because of increasing enrollment and lack of equipment to meet the demand, hence shorter loan periods.  Of course after much push back they later revised it again so it wasn't as painful of a cut, but it is what it is...  and threads and attitudes such as what is on this very thread goes to show how changes like this is brought about in the first place.  Anywho, for what it's worth, i sent a link of this thread to CPS...  dont know what or if things can change now that they have let things get out of control, but one can hope.

50
CPS is aimed for Professionals, and i'm sure if they were to find out that you were not a professional, you could lose your status.  Being both a professional and a CPS member, i find threads like these kind of sad, but, for those who take advantage and bend the rules for your own gain, karma always comes back around...
CPS is a service to those who spend enough money on Canon´s pro gear. Wether you´re a pro, an enthusiast or a wealthy gadget collector does not matter. To exclude non-pros would be very poor judgement.

Wrong.  according to Canon CPS, Membership is available only to those individuals (self-employed or employed by a professional imaging business), who plays a direct role in the creation of moving or still images for third parties on a full-time basis and are legal residents of the 50 United States, the District of Columbia (and Puerto Rico as of January 31, 2014).

That is directly from their own FAQ.  You are correct, i've gone to many events, Weddings, Parties, etc where guests, like neuro, has better gear than myself...  The difference is i'm getting paid and entrusted by the hosts of the event to provide the images for the event, wedding, whatever the case may be.  My gear is critical to my families income so I cannot have them go down or i'm out of business.  CPS is aimed to help us working professionals so we can experiment with new gear, buy new gear, and help us if our gear goes down to get it back up and running the best way possible. 

51
CPS is aimed for Professionals, and i'm sure if they were to find out that you were not a professional, you could lose your status.  Being both a professional and a CPS member, i find threads like these kind of sad, but, for those who take advantage and bend the rules for your own gain, karma always comes back around...

What is sad are posts like these as they appear to be judgmental and pompous. What, may I ask are the criteria for being a "professional?" Where is the line drawn? Primary source of income? Your main job? How many gigs you've done? How often someone has paid for an image of yours? The level of ambiguity to this determination is huge to an extent to which I don't believe you have given any thought.

I don't quite understand how anyone is taking advantage or bending the rules. I'm quite certain that if Canon/CPS was overly concerned about making their memberships exclusive only to high level pros, they would do so. I tend to believe based on the way things are set up that they are really only concerned about whether you have spent enough money on their stuff.

I have a career which pays me very well which allows me to have the luxury of owning a lot of gear without having to do photography as a job. I do paid gigs for fun here and there and have plenty of gear which doesn't all necessarily get used on those jobs. Does that make me not a professional? Am I not qualified to get my equipment worked on?

Canon sells products and provides a way for you to get them serviced which also costs money. Who is anyone to tell another photog they shouldn't be allowed to have membership if they are willing to pay the money for both?

I'm pretty sure there is a higher likelihood of running into some bad karma when you are being wrongfully judgmental of others and/or being full of yourself.
John, I don't mean to be pompous or judgemental, but I quite disagree.
I don't have a "day job" to fall back on, so I think it's only fair that Canon looks after those who depend on their equipment for a livelihood.
Being a self-employed editorial photographer is fraught with enough challenges without the worry that your camera manufacturer doesn't have your back. In this day where publications expect content for free, let's just say there are many other careers that, in comparison, pay very well. Too many times I've covered events where the hobbyists have equipment that's better and newer than mine. Most likely theirs has seen far less wear, as they don't have to come up with usable images day after day. If they miss a shot because their gear fails, yes, it's a real disappointment.  If I miss mine, I've probably lost a payday, perhaps a hard-won client, as well as being out of work until it's fixed.

Definitely don't think you are either one of those things. Awin on the other hand....

Anyhow, while I respect your opinion, I still fail to understand how not allowing certain classes of photographers to have membership would help your cause. As it stands, there is a tiered setup for membership which includes one type that has expedited service as well as other perks. I know several photographers that regularly utilize that membership and have never had a problem having all their needs met in a timely fashion. So unless having such an open enrollment process adversely affects your ability to have your needs met somehow, I don't see what the issue is.

The reason Awin's comments bothered me was because they were full of assumption and judgment all of which were unfounded.

When it comes down to it, there are countless variations in need and types of photographers who do all different levels of work out there. As such, the grey area for what would be defined as "professional" is huge. Do we base it on generated income, number of jobs, frequency, type of work, etc?

I see i ruffled someones feathers...  Here's the deal...  year after year, and this isn't the only thread talking about this, more and more people sign up or try to sign up for Canon CPS and they have, especially recently, changed the rules and benefits of signing up decreasing what they used to give to us just to accommodate demand.  I have seen multiple accounts and threads on CR and other forums where people blatantly say they are not pro's and yet they are members of Canon CPS.  Instead of being stringent and exclusive, it's more of a pay per play system, and i feel it isn't right.  You have seen in almost every sector in life where when people take advantage of a service or good, that good starts becoming more scarce, funds start depleting for it, and or quality of goods start to deteriorate.  Without bringing politics into it, a simple look at the governments welfare and unemployment insurance systems are a great example as funding has been steadily cut to recipients and it's harder and harder to access.  The same is starting to happen to this great system and it isn't right. 

As a professional, i dont always have the funding to get the best gear as it is my livelyhood and i have no other funding, day jobs, etc to pay for my gear... if my gear goes down and CPS cant help me right away because some other non-pro has the gear i would need loaned to them, then i'm losing money or not being able to accept jobs and that hurt my bottom line and darn right i'm going to be peeved.  It is what it is.  CPS is Canon Professional Services, not Canon Insurance Services or Canon I want to be a photographer but have lots of money services... 

52
Hello everyone,

I recently started my own photography business where I sell my prints - typically canvas or metal.  Two weeks ago I held my first exhibition and I am about to talk to several interested local establishments about displaying my work.

In order for this to work financially, I need a company that is willing to print at a decent cost.  I do not have the budget, nor will my wife give me permission, to buy a large format printer.  Besides, my metal prints are becoming more possible - which requires a far more expensive printer.  Therefore I like to send everything out.  However, my current prices cannot withstand the printing costs of places like MPixPro and Bay Photo - who I am sure do excellent work.

The canvas prints are the easy part.  I know of many online solutions and I have friends locally who will print for a low price.  The metal prints are more challenging.

Until now I have been working with pictureitoncanvas.  They are just starting out as well.  Their web site is maddening to work with and needs drastic improvement, but I took the opinion that since I was beginning my business, I would have some patience with them while they started theirs.  I used coupons to make my initial prints affordable and they offer a set discount to pro photographers on their site.  When I applied for that discount - sending them my business info + resellers certificate, they never responded.  Several times I have called customer support and they have told me that 100% I will hear back the next day. This is despite the fact that I have already given them a decent amount of business - ~50 prints so far.

I am now at the point that I need to replace them as a supplier.  If they cannot at least look at my file and/or call me back then I cannot rely on them as a business partner.

Would anyone know of a company who prints in metal, has a decent web site for ordering, and provides a discount to pro photographers?


Dear Kirispupis.
I am not the PRO, But I use my BEST PRODUCTS/ BEST COMPANY where located in my Home State, North Carolina . This " AluminArte MFG." are the best that I highly recommend to you.  Good  Price and Fantastic  3D. Look Picture on Aluminum Plate.
Enjoy
Surapon

http://www.imagewizards.net/


Interesting Lab, just took a look... it appears their smallest size they do is 16x20?  and at that, it is $130?  Holy crap, there's better options than that for pro's.  For Non-Pro's, one lab that is pretty good and offers great rates is adoramapix  They are associated with the adorama store in NY, rates you cant beat...  quality is usually pretty good... 

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http://www.bayphoto.com/metalprints/  They have a Roes ordering system, so you install the free software on your computer, get approved for an account, and then you order your stuff... The economy roes is cheaper but you have to ensure your files are color corrected and ready to print as is.  The full roes system is more $ but they color correct and make sure it's nails. 

54
Bay Photo all the way...  There are some other labs i've used, but the prints are either not as crisp or just lacking in umph...  My clients love 'em

55
CPS is aimed for Professionals, and i'm sure if they were to find out that you were not a professional, you could lose your status.  Being both a professional and a CPS member, i find threads like these kind of sad, but, for those who take advantage and bend the rules for your own gain, karma always comes back around... 

56
EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 5D Mark III & Third Party Batteries
« on: December 12, 2013, 10:41:32 AM »
From my experience, i have tested many 3rd party batteries on many cameras from the BP-511's to the latest 7D,5d3 batteries and most 3rd party batteries, while good for the first or second cycle, tend to lose memory quickly and it's charge capabilities are severely diminished.  Some of the 3rd party BP-511's i tested on a full charge, after a few charge cycles only could support 50 or so photos with occasional chimping...  The newer batteries were not as bad, but still i have not found batteries that hold a charge better than the OEM's so I have resigned myself to stick with OEM's...  It does not surprise me a bit that canon made their changes to help discourage 3rd party batteries.  Not saying what they did was right, but it's practical. 

57
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe.....You changed my mind. Too Bad.
« on: December 02, 2013, 02:23:18 PM »
I've been using photoshop since 1997 and the rest of the adobe suite since 2005...  Here is my understanding...  you can have ANY version of any adobe product on up to 2 machines without question....  So the indesign thing seems odd unless you had it on a PRIOR machine before your other machine you are upgrading from.  Be it as it may, usually they will give you an activation code and bob's your uncle it's good to go.  their online help is usually pretty shotty at times, but sometimes it does pay to actually call and talk to someone face to face...  online people are willing to leave chat windows open and will wait it out, especially if they got other tasks to do.... people on the phone are far less patient, especially if this call is coming out of the minute plan on their cell phones, so in the end, it may be a better bet just calling them and putting them on speakerphone.  So far i opted for the 9.99 plan and couldn't be happier... (although i have yet to really delve much into lightroom yet). 

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Software & Accessories / Re: DSLR Microphones, suggestions please :) !
« on: November 18, 2013, 04:19:44 PM »
I've got the rode pro mic...  They are good and has a nice mounting system. 

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EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« on: November 12, 2013, 05:52:02 PM »

The original 7D was originally billed by canon as a Pro level APS-C...  heck at the time had better AF than the 5d2...  Could be the same here...

At this point, unfortunately, I am not expecting big strides in IQ between the 7D and 7DII.  If recent releases are anything to go by, I think we should lower our expectations.

Given that the 7D's weather sealing and AF were already better than the 5DII, I expect the likely level of improvement to the 7DII will be smaller than the difference between the 5DII and 5DIII.  The difference between 19pt AF and 63pt AF is much smaller than the difference between 9pt AF and 63pt AF.

As a result I expect to see less reason to move from a 7D to a 7DII than from a 5DII to a 5DIII.

Those people who had a 7D and 5DII and moved to a 5DIII will also have less reason to buy a 7DII, so unless Canon does something radical (for instance to court laggard 1DIV users who can't see the need for a 1DX) I don't see the 7DII being as successful as the 7D.

Part of the 7D's success was that at that time, the closest thing to the nikon D300 was the 50D and that was a failure in comparison by most measuring sticks...  Then canon came out with their trump card, almost out of nowhere that had had as good if not better everything...  From IQ (although debatable), video, ergonomics, FPS, AF cross points, etc...  Even after nikon came out with the D300S, the 7D still came out smelling like a rose....  Now nikon has gone out in full force with their 5100 and anticipated D400, this will have tougher competition and may not be the reigning king like it was 3-4 years ago.  Wifi would be a cool feature, but it isn't new and shiny, the 6D and so on had that...  63 point AF, well that obviously wont be something new...  HDR, Video, etc...  most features has been implemented before...  As far as ground breaking stuff, i dont know if there would really be any real jaw dropping features unless maybe it does 4k video.  I for one wouldn't want a flippy out screen, but touch screen with that dual pixel sensor may be nice to have...  I think even if all they did was slighly raise FPS to 10-12, like what most people are expecting, cleaner ISO and IQ and sharper/cleaner video with less jello, that would be enough for most people with the original 7D to plunk down $2k. 

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EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« on: November 12, 2013, 05:19:46 PM »
I'll go a different angle on this, price seems low for true "pro" level. So I expect something, besides APS-C to be separating the 7DII from 5DIII/1DX. Also, if true Pro level, canon needs to upgrade a general purpose zoom.  I say that as a former owner of the 15-85, which was a great lens. But they need a EFs general purpose zoom with weather sealing and better build quality.

That said, I'll consider buying the 7DII, depending on the specs and actual performance.

The original 7D was originally billed by canon as a Pro level APS-C...  heck at the time had better AF than the 5d2...  Could be the same here...

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