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121

EOS Bodies / Re: After DPREVIEW of D800 would you still get the Canon 5d mark iii?

« on: May 11, 2012, 04:12:45 PM »

Well, I agree the AF of the 5D3 might be better than the Nikon, but don't forget that Canon was way behind in this domain till now, the 5D2 AF is simply a shame, it was time to correct it.

The same way Nikon was late with sensors, they improved dramatically here.

Don't misunderstand me here, the 5D3 would have had a sensor in the 28-32MP range, I would have bought it immediately, I'm glad Canon has finally developed a decent AF (though of little concern for me, since I focus manually most of the time), I am just disappointed they could not release such a sensor after 4 years, I don't care too much about high ISO so for me the 5D2 will do the job a bit longer.

What is more bothering me is the metering system, with or without flash that allows Nikon owners to use auto modes without even thinking about it (since the F801), Canon still has some work to do here. Once again, little concern for me since I use manual mode and studio flashes, but still a useful feature for quick outdoor shots.

The features I rave the most about the 5D is the 100% viewfinder and the integrated level, but still 3.5k is a bit too much for these features alone.

What I am just saying is that everyone is drooling when a smartphone has more pixels on it's screen, or that compact cameras are in the 18mpx range nowadays, but no one seems to find funny that a brand like Canon could not improve the resolution of its pro cameras in 4 years.

I am not complaining about the improvements on the 5D3, I am honestly criticizing the lack of novelty about the sensor, that barely evolved in 4 years, when Canon was the absolute leader in full frame sensors till now, it just seems they stopped on their way. One could have expected a camera not only with a better AF and light metering but AS WELL a better sensor.

Let them release the same camera with a 30+ mpx sensor, I'll be first to buy it, my personal opinion is the 5D3 offers little image quality improvement (aside from the high ISO) and it's a bit overpriced for what it has to offer.

I would gladly stay with Canon, just for the TS-E lenses that are irreplaceable for me; speaking of lenses and accessories, a little effort on the prices would be welcome as well, price increase has been a bit surrealistic these last years.

Once again I am not a fanboy of any brand, I just try to keep an honest critical point of view, even about the tools I use, since perfection is not part of this world.

I am just hoping that this healthy competition will lead Canon to release the big mpx sensor a lot of people are waiting for...

122

EOS Bodies / Re: After DPREVIEW of D800 would you still get the Canon 5d mark iii?

« on: May 11, 2012, 12:27:22 PM »

All about sensor ? Yes and no, I do fully agree that the 5D3 is a much better camera, than the 5D2, but isn't it logic considering the 5D2 is 4 years old ? The camera mechanics has much improved, in the same proportions the 5D2 improved over the 5D1, but I am sorry to say the sensor did not. More ISO for sure but that's about it. I am not saying it's a bad camera, but Canon seems to have given up on what made them stand out since the beginning of the digital EOS : the sensor. In good old times, my Nikon F5 had a better AF, better light metering and better TTL metering than nowadays Canons, Nikon still has the edge on all these features. The 5D3 has a good AF ? I agree, but it was more than time. I won't discuss the ergonomics, as this is a matter of preference, as are aesthetics.

Now about the sensors: in film camera days, the main difference in image quality (from a technical point of view), was decided by optics and film quality ONLY. Now film has almost disappeared, and been replaced by sensors. The struggle that before belonged to Kodak and Fuji, depends now on camera manufacturers.

Considering that lens quality is not an issue any more, since Canon and Nikon both have excellent optics, some better here or there, the major factor of image quality  is the sensor. I do not deny than AF, light metering and other electronics are an added comfort, but photography resumed to it's basics is about framing and light. Lots of these improvements have led to a lowering of the technical involvement of the photographers.

Some of my best picture are made with a view camera, that doesn't even have a light meter, simply because it forces me to think about what I am doing. The only technical concern is to use the best film available as well as the best optics possible. Transposed to digital it means the best sensor possible.

I know that all the modern refinements make the camera easier and faster to use, but in lots of cases they are merely a compensation for lack of technique. I prefer a simpler camera with the best sensor than a full featured one with a bad sensor (I did not say the 5D3 had a bad sensor). This is exactly the reason that pushed me away from Nikon after more than 20 years, the D200 was the best featured camera I ever had, but the results were poor.
We are not exactly in the same situation nowadays, since Canon results are far from poor, but on the other hand if did not have a camera yet the choice would be easy.

Now if we put together the technical characteristics that matter (you can make a picture without having a dual slot card or an HDMI output), Nikon has better AF, better light metering, better flash TTL, and from now on a better sensor. Considering it's 500$ less expensive than the Canon, it's difficult to recommend the 5D3 over the D800 to someone who wants to buy his first DSLR. For the ones who are already engaged with a brand (I am with Canon), it's a more difficult choice that will depend mainly on the type of photography.

For the rest it's all about aesthetics (I prefer Canon), ergonomics (it took me some time to get used to Canon and it's not bad at all), and the force of habits (this is something not to underestimate, since it take some time to fully master such a tool).

I will leave aside the brand religion, I do not want to enter this arena, since a lot of people seems to be so hurt when they hear their brand is not always the best. I've worked with a lots of brands, but I always try to keep honest, since this is just a piece of equipment; I loved my Hasselblad 503CX, but I am the first one to admit the lenses were not as good as most Mamiya's ones, and the ergonomics were from the 19th century, but I loved the feeling of it. This is the part were passion takes over reason, since the people who worked with Mamiyas at that time had better results than me.

123

EOS Bodies / Re: After DPREVIEW of D800 would you still get the Canon 5d mark iii?

« on: May 11, 2012, 08:08:05 AM »

Hello everyone, I am new to this forum, and I would gladly like to share a bit...Please forgive my English as I am not a native speaker. Here is the story: I started photography 28 years ago, with a good part of professional activity in it (mainly as architecture, decoration, studio photography). I made the switch from Nikon to Canon with the 5DMk2, since my experience with Nikon sensor was not very satisfying, I had a D70 that was OK for a digital beginner, but had very basic features though the pictures were quite good, I then switched to a D200 that had all the features I needed but  a crappy sensor..... very disappointing. I then decided to go for the Canon 5D2 (I am no brand addict, I just use what I think is the best for my needs, but once you have a decent amount of glass, the change is not easy), since I needed the TS-E lenses to work, and Nikon Glass had some gaps at this time. Sorry for the long intro, but I think the background has some importance to explain my point of view.

The Mk2 is a good camera, since I shoot with a tripod, focus manually and know how to expose, but the AF is dating from the Jurassic era, the light metering is way behind Nikon as well as the flash exposure. I knew it since a long time, but I needed a sensor, and for this purpose it was the best for the money. I am quite happy with Canon glass as well, mainly the TS-E lenses, and the 24-105 is the perfect all around lens. But let's be honest here, the 5D3 is a disappointment; Canon just catched up with Nikon AF system and improved a bit the light and flash metering system, but Nikon is  and was always master in these categories. My point is Nikon made the best cameras with not so good sensors, and Canon made the best sensors in not so good cameras. BUT it it fair to admit that things have changed, Nikon-Sony has beaten Canon on the sensor while Canon has been a bit overconfident. The 5D3 is a big improvement on the 5D2 features, but the sensor is a failure, sorry to say it, it might hurt some, but going to 21 to 22 MPX in 4 years is a shame, and aside from the high ISO, that not everyone is using, it delivers images barely better than it's predecessor. I was expecting some drawbacks from the 36MPX Nikon sensor, but the figures are here, it beats Canon everywhere. The good point with the 5D3 is that we Canon users finally have a camera with an AF system an light meter that works, it was more than time.... Nikon has it since the F801.

My guess is that Canon has seen a commercial opportunity with the video part of the 5D2, that was an unexpected success, and they declared themselves a cinema camera company. They have spend their energy in too many directions, with all the "C" cameras, without any guarantee of success since the market did not wait for them (Arri and Red are here since a long time), and doing so they lost their ability to design the best photo sensors. Nikon is leaving the problem to Sony, who did a very good job here, and can concentrate on improving PHOTO cameras.

About resolution, sorry folks but it matters for a LOT of people, do you think Hasselblad would sell cameras worth the price of a luxury car otherwise ? If people are ready to put this amount of money to get 60+MPX there is a reason. Nikon has been clever in making the D4 a "combat camera" for reporters who need speed and reliability, and the D800 for the people who don't need the speed or built features, but need resolution (landscape, architecture, studio), for the people who don't need either of these features, the D600 is coming... Marketing speaking that sounds quite reasonable, Canon has a competitor to the D4, but none to the D800. The 5D3 is a sub-1D, it worked when Nikon had nothing to compete, but it's not the case any more.

Nikon got it, the D800e is the perfect studio camera for professionals who cannot afford  a Hasselblad, who need high resolution for landscape, architecture without being able to buy a digital view camera. The 5D3 is good, but is clearly more oriented for sport and action, and in my sense is more a cheaper alternative to the D4 or 1D. Since we talk money, Canon has always been a slightly cheaper alternative to Nikon that was a bit overpriced, this has changed too; the recent price increase in lenses and the ridiculous pricing of the 5D3 vs the D800 has changed the trend. The Mk3 should cost 500$ LESS than the Nikon. I was shocked as well when they released the new 24 and 28mm f2.8 fixed lenses, they kept these crappy non USM lenses for 25 years and now the new ones are worth 800$, they should cost half that amount!!! If they think they are Leica, they still have a bit of homework to do.

Putting 3.5K in the new Canon won't improve my pictures at 100 ISO, I'll just wait a few more month since I still have hope they will release a better sensor to catch up; if they don't within a year, I'll go to Nikon, the only thing preventing me to do so immediately is the money I will lose on my lenses. For now I've stopped investing in any new glass, let's wait and see.....

I'd love to have the AF, viewfinder and integrated level of the 5D3, but for me it's just not worth the price they ask for it.

Sorry guys if I am hurting you, that is not my intention, I try to be honest, I use Canon now, I used Nikon a lot in the past, my favourite toy is still my Linhof Technika; but I am a bit in trouble now, since I need more resolution and Canon doesn't seem to be able to deliver it. I have the impression they have sacrificed photography for their new cinema passion, and we customers are paying the price for it. Let's just hope they are ready to release an EOS 3DMk1 with a high resolution sensor soon, but my feeling is they have shot themselves in both feet here.