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Messages - bdunbar79

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EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs 5D3
« on: August 02, 2012, 10:02:23 PM »

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs 5D3
« on: August 02, 2012, 10:01:21 PM »
Did some on purpose bad lighting shots this evening.  In this case, I took each camera with the same settings, only I shot in auto ISO for all shots.  I did each lighting scenario with CWA metering and spot metering.  If a highlight was blown out, I could NOT get the 1DX to focus properly.  One shot I must have done 10 times and it's still blurry, whereas the 5D3 just locked on and I shot.  Here's the first four:

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Camera Crossroads :)
« on: August 02, 2012, 09:57:09 PM »
Do you not think three cameras is overkill? Unless you plan on linking them all wirelessly and trigger them that way two would suffice wouldn't it?

Reach is always good, so I would keep the 1D Mark IV and 1D X and sell the rest and buy new glass.

I like Mt Spokane Photography's idea of the new 200-400 lens.

How did you end up with so many cameras anyway?

I guess as time went on, I replaced all my old cameras with a new one.  Had a 7D and 5D2, and got a 5D3 in place of those two.  Then I stopped actually replacing them.  Kept the 1Ds3 when I did that.  However I did a few weddings and got another 5D3 because I was using that heavily and the convenience of two helped.  The 1D4 I got in May to pick up the end of the track season.  Oh and you can see how it went.  Should have sold, much like I did my 7D and 5D2, as I went along. 

I don't think 3 is overkill.  I take two to every event.  Sometimes the 3rd has a greater strength at one thing than another.  So it could be A/B, A/C, or B/C, depending on what I'm doing.  In THIS case though, sports is going to be it.  I always carry two bodies to every event.  But I'm only doing sports, then yeah, why have 3?  I guess I'm not thrilled with the 1D4's IQ compared to the 5D3 or 1DX, but it certainly has that extra reach.  In track the 400mm lens I have becomes 520.  That's tough to beat, especially at low ISO.

EOS Bodies / Re: 1DX or 1D4
« on: August 02, 2012, 09:32:55 PM »
I really think this is the million dollar (or at least US$ 6,000) question. Once you go past a certain point in length, lenses become super expensive. You can then use extenders as MWP mentioned but then questions re AF and IQ come up. Even a 1.3x crop helps with the reach, and the 1D 4 is about half the price, and you can use extenders on that. If the 1D X had a lot more megapixels you could combat the lack of reach by cropping more, but then you would probably lose out on fps. It is an interesting debate, but the quality of images from the 1D X do look outstanding, and as long as you have lenses that work best (is it groups A-F or something) then you should be on to a winner.

Even if the 1DX had 21 mp like the 1Ds3 or 5DII, you could crop fairly far.  18 I don't know.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Camera Crossroads :)
« on: August 02, 2012, 07:08:36 PM »
Keeping a 5d3 will be valuable for its silent shutter if you shoot golf, tennis anything where someone might brain you with a club or raquet if they get the sh!ts on also if you are mainly shooting with 2 1 series bodies then you just keep it in you bag with a wide lens on to grab the odd total scene shot

Tennis is a concern yes.  I've not done tennis before.  Basketball is loud anyways and football, well...

I'll probably, no matter what, hang on to the 5D Mark III, whether I end up with a pair of 1DX's or not.  I would really like to keep one of my highest mp cameras.  If I had just a bit more money I'd hang on to the 1Ds3 but economically it may not make sense.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Camera Crossroads :)
« on: August 02, 2012, 06:33:02 PM »
As long as you guys think 18mp is no big deal vs. 22mp, I'm comfortable with that decision.

I've got my 1DX but I'm going to hold out for a high megapixel camera like a 1DXs or something as a second body. Until then I will continue to use my 5D2 and 1D4!

Mark, if 400mm is plenty long for any sports for you on a FF camera, I can sell the 1D4 and keep the 5D Mark III, which I really like.  I think 2 1DX's for sports and the 5D3 for high mp camera sounds good too.  However, if 400mm is a bit short in your opinion, I will keep the 1D4 and wait like you are for a higher mp camera.  Problem is I can't see much difference 18 vs 22mp, but that's still 4000 less pixels. 


If I went that route, of course you can look at purchasing the 1D4.  I bought it in early May to finish up the outdoor track season and that's all I've shot with it.  When purchased, the EOS Utility showed something like 7k actuations.  I may have 10k total, but I'll run the Utility again.  I guess I could always keep the 1Ds3, but that doesn't do well in low light and I will need that.

Oh decisions, decisions.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs 5D3
« on: August 02, 2012, 04:27:53 PM »
I am and have been convinced that you are on to something here.  Let me get back with you this afternoon with some test shots of real things.  I am going to do a portrait shot with 135 f/2L lens this evening. The perfect test shot will be in tungsten lighting.  Stay tuned.  Do you want the RAW or TIF files?  Let me know, I have your email addy.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Camera Crossroads :)
« on: August 02, 2012, 04:15:38 PM »
As long as you guys think 18mp is no big deal vs. 22mp, I'm comfortable with that decision.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Camera Crossroads :)
« on: August 02, 2012, 03:40:26 PM »
Thanks guys.  As much as I like my 22mp cameras, they're not going to make me any money whereas the 1DX and 1D4 will.  18mp is plenty for wedding photography anyways, as I usually only crop down to about 12-14mp off a 21mp shot.  And Mt. Spokane, thanks for the heads up on the 200-400L potential announcement this fall.  That would certainly come in handy down the road. 

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Camera Crossroads :)
« on: August 02, 2012, 03:11:37 PM »
That's actually a superb idea.  Thanks.
No problem, it's easy to spend other people's money. I'll accept one of the 5dIII's as my commission  ;)

You're assuming I SHOULD have purchased anything I did :)
Best I can do is a discount :)

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Camera Crossroads :)
« on: August 02, 2012, 02:31:36 PM »
My current position is to sell a 5D3, the 1D4, and the 1Ds3, and buying a 1DX, giving me a pair of 1DX's and a 5D3.  I could probably budget down the road either a newer 400mm lens or a 500mm lens.  I'm not in a bind or anything, I was just looking for some opinions on what you might do if you were going to primarily shoot sports, but do some weddings here and there.  Thanks!
What about ending up with a two 1DX's and the 1D4? The 1DX's would more than cover you for pretty much everything (indoors, weddings, etc), and the 1DIV would allow your 400mm lens to cover the track portions you need the extra reach for. The re-sale value difference between the 5dIII and 1D4 is what, $1000? Compare that to maybe needing to buy the 500mm or 600mm and that's nothing.

Two 1DX's and a 5dIII just seems odd...I'm not sure you'd ever actually use the 5dIII, because the 1DX does everything it does, only better.

That's actually a superb idea.  Thanks.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs 5D3
« on: August 02, 2012, 02:15:52 PM »
I think then we can eliminate high ISO comparisons.  They don't seem to be relevant.  I think we should look at underexposure/overexposure and shadow detail recovery.  Also low ISO color rendition.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Camera Crossroads :)
« on: August 02, 2012, 02:15:00 PM »
I am not in your league, being a amateur (with a few paid gigs a year). However, I think it is hard to weigh in given that I don't know your sports (wast difference if it is soccer, American footbal, or basket), so it is hard to know your range requirements. Is the sports you shoot fast sports? If so, I would opt for another 1DX, then you have two 1DX with a 70-200 F2.8 IS II on one, and a 500 on the other?

Thanks for responding.  Yeah it's hard to say.  I'd say at track and field, 400 might be a tad short for long distance curve shots for fast action relay hand offs, etc.  I don't really want to buy a 500mm lens for track only.  The other sports yes, are fast action.  Football I think given the fact that I'll be on the sidelines 400mm is plenty and most of the time I'd be shooting with a 300mm lens anyways.  Indoor sports won't require anything longer than 200mm.  I guess I just don't know if the sacrifice in IQ with the 1D4 for the extra reach is worth it.  I know for indoor sports I won't use the 1D4 because I just don't like the high ISO (6400) on that camera vs. the 1DX and 5D3.  It's a tough decision.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs 5D3
« on: August 02, 2012, 02:00:08 PM »
So you're using auto ISO -- that's what I wasn't clear on since that means everything wasn't set to manual.  As I said earlier, it already been demonstrated that the 5D3 produces a brighter image with the exact same settings at the 1DX.  If you set everything to manual (including ISO) with the exact same settings, the resulting image will be brighter on the 5D3 than the 1DX.

The real-world application of this is that with a fixed shutter and aperture, you can shoot a properly exposed image with a 1DX and the same properly exposed image on the 5D3 will have a lower ISO.  So when it comes to comparing high ISO image quality, it's not a valid comparison to look at the same ISO side by side.  In real-world shooting you would need to compare a 6400 1DX image with a 5000 5D3 image.  This I believe is exactly what you showed in your testing.  Given that balance, the 1DX may not have any edge in high ISO over the 1DX.  I've heard someone propose Canon did this on purpose to give the 1DX an apparent edge in high ISO.

Ok Chris, I understand you now.  Got it.  I agree, probably no real ISO advantage.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs 5D3
« on: August 02, 2012, 01:36:01 PM »
If everything is set to manual, then the camera isn't metering anything.  The only time metering would come into play is when you're in an AV, TV, or auto ISO mode and the camera is deciding what settings to choose.  If everything is on manual, then you are doing the metering not the camera.  Am I missing something? 

If you do want to test how the cameras each meter (and that is a valid question) you need to put them both in the same auto mode and shoot with identical focus points.  When you do that you'll see the 5D3 and 1DX behave quite differently, specifically because of the focal point-weighted metering on the 1DX.

I'm lost.  The camera meters out of the same point on both cameras.  The 1DX only meters out of a focus point on spot metering.  I didn't use spot metering, I used center weighted average.  Second point I'm lost on, is that when the camera tells me it's properly exposed (the meter on the right hand side on 1DX and bottom on 5D3) the brightness is different on each camera.  0 EV on 1DX is different than 0 EV on 5D Mark III.  This is a very simple test.  You can shoot in auto ISO at 1/100, f/8, and get ISO 6400 on the 5D3 and ISO 5000 on the 1DX.  That is very similar.  However, upon inspection of the photos, the exposure is brighter on the 5D3.  Well of course, it's ISO is higher.  The point is that it gave correct exposure at a brighter image than the 1DX did.  Again, a very simple thing.

And I don't know why people can't understand that AF-point metering is for spot metering.  CWA comes out of the CENTER.  It doesn't matter which camera you are using.  Besides, why is it so hard to understand that I used the center AF point anyways in all of my shots?

I cannot explain this again, so I'm sorry if I'm not being clear.

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