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Messages - Don Haines

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EOS Bodies / Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« on: August 28, 2014, 05:07:39 PM »

Stop trying to break down a simple system test to a series of theoretical concepts you think you can prove, system tests don't work like that and you can't supply "evidence" to support your position.

Yes, I did.  You just didn't like it because it was shot on a tripod.

The tripod/handheld argument is a bit of a red herring. How good is the tripod? how well does it control vibrations? And shooting without a tripod depends a lot on the person, how stable their stance is, and are they leaning up against a tree/rock/building/??? for extra stability. I can hand-hold steadier than the typical tripod, but a good tripod is steadier than me.....

and yes, I can shoot the moon at 600mm, handheld, with nothing to lean against and still get a sharp picture...

The point is, that "handheld" is a nebulous standard that can never be defined, so therefore it can never be a controlled variable in tests...

Fair point Don, but mine is that you can't handhold without some impact in resolution and that impact, even though it is to both systems, will make any small resolution differences even smaller.

also a fair point.....

May I suggest that we let this discussion drop for a while and over the weekend go take some pictures of the moon and carry this on in a new thread?

I propose that those interested get their hands on a FF camera and a crop camera of approximately the same vintage.. (6D and 70D would make a good pair, 5D2 and 7D/60D would make a good pair) and go out and take some moon pictures with the same lens/ISO/aperture/shutter speed and scale them up to the same size... Get 4 pictures and post the results... FF tripod, FF handheld, crop on tripod, and crop on handheld.... and for entertainment's sake, add in any other camera you wish to try.....

212
EOS Bodies / Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« on: August 28, 2014, 04:45:04 PM »

Stop trying to break down a simple system test to a series of theoretical concepts you think you can prove, system tests don't work like that and you can't supply "evidence" to support your position.

Yes, I did.  You just didn't like it because it was shot on a tripod.

The tripod/handheld argument is a bit of a red herring. How good is the tripod? how well does it control vibrations? And shooting without a tripod depends a lot on the person, how stable their stance is, and are they leaning up against a tree/rock/building/??? for extra stability. I can hand-hold steadier than the typical tripod, but a good tripod is steadier than me.....

and yes, I can shoot the moon at 600mm, handheld, with nothing to lean against and still get a sharp picture...

The point is, that "handheld" is a nebulous standard that can never be defined, so therefore it can never be a controlled variable in tests...

213
Photography Technique / Re: Swim Pictures - Share your tips/ideas!
« on: August 28, 2014, 04:24:52 PM »
Get a GoPro, set it up to do time lapse, and leave it on the bottom of the pool...

Is a time lapse GoPro how you post those cool cat pictures Don?   ;D   Thanks!  I have a buddy who has a GoPro that I can probably borrow.  I'll have to learn more about it.

It's funny you mention underwater.  I was considering a more complicated approach of putting my scuba cert to use and laying on the bottom of the pool during practice with various gear I already have.  Canon D10, D20 and a S95 in a dedicated underwater case.  I wish, wish, wish that Canon would make intervalometers a standard feature on all their cameras like Nikon and Pentax have for years!!  Aaargh!   >:(

Anyway, thanks for the tip and please keep 'em coming!   :D
I have an IPad app and a special cable so I can use my 60D as an intervalometer.... but no way am I going to try that at the bottom of a pool.... although it would clear the way to getting a 7D2 and a new tablet :)

214
EOS Bodies / Re: Pricing for the 7D Replacement
« on: August 28, 2014, 02:03:46 PM »
What is this, The Price is Right?
The one who comes closest without going over wins the right to say "HAW HAW! I told you so".....

215
Photography Technique / Re: Swim Pictures - Share your tips/ideas!
« on: August 28, 2014, 01:55:26 PM »
Hi all,

I'm starting my forth year of swim team shooting for my sons' high school.  Up to now I've felt like I was on a learning curve as my gear/technique improved, esp the first year.  Now I'm looking for ideas to be more creative and keep it interesting.  The venues are the same and basically repeat every year.  The rare events that are held outdoors are well lit and colorful.  Unfortunately, the majority of the pics happen inside poorly lit natatoriums.  So there is always plenty of post processing happening to fix WB, lighting, clarity, shadows, etc.  Any ideas on post processing improvements is also welcome.

I have shot the last 3 years with a 60D and then a 5D3.  The lenses improved as I acquired better gear.  Now I have a 70-200/2.8L-II and a 70-300L and I have used a Kenko 1.4 TC with both on the 5D3.  I now also have a 70D to try out.  So I'm trying to also decide what lens combos I'll do now.  I'm considering putting the 5D3 on backup status (hanging left side) with a 24-105 for up close and using the 70D (faster fps, more reach) as the primary with the 70-300L or the 70-200/2.8-II with/without TC.

To summarize, I'm looking for composition and shot ideas, post enhancement tips and I'm looking for thoughts on lens+body combos.

Here is a link to all the swim pics I've posted from the last 3 years.  That should keep you busy for a while!   :P  (And THANK YOU!)   :D

http://rustythegeek.zenfolio.com/lamarswim

Get a GoPro, set it up to do time lapse, and leave it on the bottom of the pool...

216
EOS Bodies / Re: Pricing for the 7D Replacement
« on: August 28, 2014, 01:52:54 PM »
And my prediction is $2,349.95.... but be warned.... I haven't guessed one right yet :)

217
Animal Kingdom / Re: Show your Bird Portraits
« on: August 28, 2014, 01:51:00 PM »
Malachite Kingfisher, a small bird but great to see.
Kingfishers are so hard to get close enough to for photography.... Congratulations on the shot!

218
EOS Bodies / Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« on: August 28, 2014, 01:49:39 PM »
Weirdly, despite the overwhelming evidence of crop superiority presented in this thread, both Canon and Nikon insist on putting full frame sensors in their pro level action/sports/wildlife cameras.  Hmmm.
One is superior under one set of conditions, the other is superior under another set of conditions, and for other conditions it is a wash.

The general rules of thumb are if you go wide, get FF.... if you go long, go APS-C, unless you are going long in poor light where the increased ISO capacity of FF cancels out the higher density sampling of APS-C... but only in the limits of what you can afford.

What you shoot with depends on what your needs are and what your budget is.

For example, if I have $2500 and want to take pictures of distant birds.... I'm going to grab a 70D and the Tamron 150-600.... If my budget is $25,000 I am going to grab a 1DX, a 600F4, and a 2X teleconverter.

219
EOS Bodies / Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« on: August 28, 2014, 10:45:38 AM »

Do you see a detail difference between these two?  They were shot with the same aperture diameter.


What did you shoot the second image with... and what settings?

220
EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina
« on: August 28, 2014, 10:40:39 AM »
... and improved ISO (5d MKIII or better)

I do believe in Santa Claus. I do I do I do.  And flying reindeer.  And rainbow-pooping unicorns.  Any of those are more likely to be real than an APS-C sensor that's as good or better than the 5DIII at high ISO. 

In a fight between physics and fantasy, my money is on physics.   8)
and Neuro moves his hand from left to right, saying "These aren't the droids sensors you're looking for"

221
EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina
« on: August 28, 2014, 10:01:53 AM »
... and improved ISO (5d MKIII or better)

I do believe in Santa Claus. I do I do I do.  And flying reindeer.  And rainbow-pooping unicorns.  Any of those are more likely to be real than an APS-C sensor that's as good or better than the 5DIII at high ISO. 

In a fight between physics and fantasy, my money is on physics.   8)
and you loose!

I'll take the photo scanner from BladeRunner (it can zoom in and in and in and read things off of the reflection of something that was around a corner) over the best current sensor any day..... and the main screen on the enterprise beats any 4K display for sale at Best Buy :)

222
Technical Support / Re: Anyone Repair your own DSLR Bodies?
« on: August 28, 2014, 09:41:17 AM »
At work, when I dis-assemble an unfamiliar piece of equipment, I shoot a video of me doing so....

It has helped several times on re-assembly......

223
EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina
« on: August 28, 2014, 09:37:44 AM »
What our information doesn’t specify is whether or not it’s the identical sensor to the EOS 70D.

From the other post, "The sensor does have new technology".

How can you stand by what you said and contradict it at the same time?

I see what you're saying, I didn't word that part of the post correctly. I will amend it.
Please don't take this the wrong way... but I won't believe anything until there is an official announcement.

Canon is VERY! good at keeping things secret... remember DPAF? This was the defining feature of the 70D and there was zero warning it was coming.... I wouldn't even be surprised if Canon had some fake specs circulating around to see where any leaks were coming from... The only thing I am sure of is that the rumours will not be 100 percent accurate....

224
EOS Bodies / Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« on: August 28, 2014, 08:05:29 AM »
all you people see is that it supposedly has 20MP.

People are disappointed if it's the same 20 MP sensor from 70D.

If it's a 20 MP sensor based on EXMOR or better technology, I am sure you won't find so many pages of rant.

Sometimes it is impossible to rise the MP count without changing the Layout of your chips. So, IMO, I could believe the rumors, that a rise in MPs to 24MP or more would afford an change in the manufacturing process - as we know from the computerindustry, where each 1-2 years an new manufacturing process needs to renew nearly the whole fabrication hardware.
The rumor was, that Canon is retaining to change their manufacturing hardware to maximise their profit.
Actually....
To maximize their profit they would shift all FF and APS-C sensors over to the 180nM line and completely shut down the 500nM line... I suspect the 70D is already there.... I suspect 7D2 and the rest of the APC-C line to soon follow....

225
EOS Bodies / Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« on: August 28, 2014, 12:02:12 AM »
Show me one test done with the same lenses from the same place shooting the same subject handheld whilst using AF that demonstrates the 7D's resolution advantage. Don't worry about off base iso, optimal aperture etc, just handheld with AF, because that is how most people use their cameras.

I would never have thought to do an UNcontrolled test to validate a hypothesis.

Most everything I shoot is moving - fast.  How would you suggest I shoot identical shots with two cameras of the same subject?  Oh, if the subject isn't moving then the test is trivial, as shooting a stationary subject is no test for AF or handholdability.

So you don't have one set of images or one test to point to demonstrate  your opinion, despite your lofty "No? What about only every test out there?"

That is my point, the "tests" so many of you rest your decisions and opinions on so often are not, actually, tests that demonstrate the results you will get if you use the equipment as most of us do.

I have many, actually, it's just that they were controlled tests, rather than uncontrolled tests.  You see, to science folks like myself, uncontrolled tests are useless.
So lets see some your many "controlled tests" or maybe point us to any of the "... about only every test out there?" that demonstrate the the 7D resolution advantage when using cameras as most of us do most of the time, handheld with AF.
< WARNING! SARCASM AHEAD >
I can't speak for the two of you, but I ALWAYS carry around a crop camera and a FF camera and two sets of identical lenses  and take each picture with both cameras using the same settings......
< SARCASM ENDED >
Come on now.... the only way this is going to happen is if someone does a controlled test.... it does not happen under normal use...

I know Don, I was just giving Lee Jay a hard time for his "No? What about only every test out there?" comment. When the truth is none of the tests out there illustrate my point, which is sad when you consider that that is how most of us use a camera most of the time.

But leave it with me, I have some ideas and a friend with a 7D..........
Probably best if you handle it.... I'm thinking of duct taping a squirrel to a ceiling fan and borrowing a 5D2....

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