Messages

121

EOS Bodies / Re: 1Ds Mark IV in 2011 or 2012 [CR2]

« on: September 12, 2010, 01:21:48 PM »

this is the key a lot of people are missing.  I know i started my system with canon because i saw that they led the professional market with their flagship cameras.  I wanted to a) join a company that would allow me to (in my dreams) give me a camera to work up to and b) know im using the same brand as the pros.

if they lose the flagship market, selling their cheaper models wont be as easy.

This doesn't surprise me at all, as the world economy continues to turn around and disposable income goes up Canon needs sales to fund R&D for the next generation.  The 1Ds has never sold in great numbers and releasing a new $6 - $8K body that will NOT sell in great numbers probably doesn't make financial sense right now.

Yet there are a group of elite users that demand such a camera. These users also tend to have the coin to drop on 10K+ of lenses, multiple bodies, and CPS memberships. Also, people that use such a camera are influencers, a good word from them or some excellent work made by can build sales for Canon on the low end.

No one said Canon should abandon their flagships, what I think they're doing is looking at the high-end market and seeing that they don't NEED to upgrade their flagship at this time since the 1DsIII is still very competitive with the competition.  Also it makes more sense to wait until we're closer to a D4x release so Nikon doesn't have a year to study Canon's new flagship which is what happened with the D3x.

122

EOS Bodies / Re: 1Ds Mark IV in 2011 or 2012 [CR2]

« on: September 11, 2010, 11:34:53 PM »

The whole post that this thread is based on is ridiculous. If Canon wasn't bringing out the 1Ds Mark IV this year, why would testers have had the cameras for several months now? How long do testers normally have cameras for?

A camera, especially one as complex as the 1Ds can easily be in testing for well over a year.  If significant bugs are found, parts of the system might need to be tweaked or even completely re-engineered and testing begins all over again for that system.  Working 1DsIV prototypes have probably been in existence since 2008.... 

123

EOS Bodies / Re: 1Ds Mark IV in 2011 or 2012 [CR2]

« on: September 11, 2010, 04:20:29 PM »

This doesn't surprise me at all, as the world economy continues to turn around and disposable income goes up Canon needs sales to fund R&D for the next generation.  The 1Ds has never sold in great numbers and releasing a new $6 - $8K body that will NOT sell in great numbers probably doesn't make financial sense right now.

Yet there are a group of elite users that demand such a camera. These users also tend to have the coin to drop on 10K+ of lenses, multiple bodies, and CPS memberships. Also, people that use such a camera are influencers, a good word from them or some excellent work made by can build sales for Canon on the low end.

I agree with this although elite is a relative term, these professionals might be among the best at what they do and they have a certain amount of influence because of it.  It doesn't change the fact that the 1Ds is a low volume seller and has a significantly lower impact to Canon's bottom line.  The lowly Rebels, XXD and "lower end" XD cameras are what keep the doors open and the lights on.  So my original argument remains, the 1Ds has essentially 1 competitor and it won't be upgraded for probably another 2 years, Canon has time to release the 1Ds later as its specs are current with the competition.  I understand flagship cameras and why they exist but my point is, the impact to Canon will be minimal if they don't release a 1DsIV in the near term and they know it.  They can, however shake up the market by introducing a high performance FF camera that's within the reach of the non-elite professional and advanced hobbyist, a market with a greater potential for immediate profitability and growth.

Many of us can drop $15K on a pro body and L glass no credit cards necessary, and I'll probably never take a photo for money.  I've probably blown more on greens fees and alcohol over the past couple of years, but I simply don't spend enough time taking photos to justify that kind of investment.  Perhaps one day that will change and I might actually give a flip about the opinions of the "elite"...

124

EOS Bodies / Re: 1Ds Mark IV in 2011 or 2012 [CR2]

« on: September 11, 2010, 10:47:19 AM »

To those that are wishing/wanting a 3D like camera, would they still  pony the extra dough for it?
With the 7D and 1D series the difference in price mainly to a superior AF system is quite dramatic.  I doubt Canon would release a FF superior AF digital camera for under $3grand starting.  I would assume a price of $3499 going up seems about right (though Canon would then seem to 1up me as usual and price it something like $3799/3999+), but then again that's like a 7D + 5D2 right there.

If this camera comes along I'm ready to buy.  Depending on specs, my price range is $2500-$3500 body-only.   It doesn't need to cost more than that as the competition has already proven.  I'm just a hobbyist with no desire to profit from photography so I'm not rushed, but I've been ready to upgrade to FF for quite a while now.

125

EOS Bodies / Re: don't think so

« on: September 11, 2010, 01:34:15 AM »

I'm not buying it.  5D3 ahead of 1Ds4?  1Ds is supposed to be the flagship.  Already folks are buying 5D2 over 1Ds3 to save coin, similar IQ for a lot less dough.  Why would Canon put their cutting-edge stuff in a $2.5 k box (5D3) when they can charge $8k for it by sticking it in a 1Ds body.

Would you rather sell 5,000 cameras at $8k a pop or 50,000 cameras at $2.5K?  Its all about total revenue.  Very, very few people amateur or professional can justify the pricetag of a 1Ds....

I'd rather sell 5,000 cameras at $8k, have it pay for R&D, then put the same technology in a lower-end cam and mass produce, sell 50,000 units at $2.5k.

Given your logic, why would canon have charged $8k for the previous 1Ds models when they could have sold more of 'em at a lower price.  But they did....

Given how long it would take you to sell those 5,000 $8K bodies to a much smaller market of potential buyers, you'd be lucky to be in business long enough to to develop your $2.5K value leader. 
 
  I'd sell the $2.5K bodies at a much faster rate to a much, much larger audience and realize a far more rapid ROI allowing me the operating revenue I need to stay in business and expand my production capabilities.  A portion of that revenue could then go into R&D and be used to produce my "flagship".  Economies of scale FTW....

126

EOS Bodies / Re: don't think so

« on: September 10, 2010, 11:50:04 PM »

I'm not buying it.  5D3 ahead of 1Ds4?  1Ds is supposed to be the flagship.  Already folks are buying 5D2 over 1Ds3 to save coin, similar IQ for a lot less dough.  Why would Canon put their cutting-edge stuff in a $2.5 k box (5D3) when they can charge $8k for it by sticking it in a 1Ds body.

Would you rather sell 5,000 cameras at $8k a pop or 50,000 cameras at $2.5K?  Its all about total revenue.  Very, very few people amateur or professional can justify the pricetag of a 1Ds....

127

EOS Bodies / Re: 1Ds Mark IV in 2011 or 2012 [CR2]

« on: September 10, 2010, 05:18:55 PM »

People are forggeting how old the 1Ds MkIII is, it's still the last in the Canon lineup to add video.

There are all the new features on the 1D MkIV to add to the 1Ds (bigger sensor, better dynamic range, more AF points, etc..) to make it "fresh", plus any new ones they didn't want to included in the slightly rushed-out 1D MkIV

On top of that, every single 1Ds has been released every 3 years every November, so it's at it's due date now.

Also, don't forget a CR2 is just someone who was right in the past. They could have been right in the past based on luck. Or even the source that the CR2 source is getting this info from got some bad info to pass on.

Bottom line: It's still a RUMOR, hence the site. It would suck if it were true, but i'm still holding my breath for a CR3 or Photokina.

I agree it's just a CR2 rumor right now, but TBH, other than a few high dollar studio photogs and spec whores like myself 
there aren't many people who are checking for this camera.  $6-$8K is just too much scratch for most of us even those with disposable income.  However far more people, myself included have cash in hand and are looking to buy in the $2-$3.5K range right now or within the next few months.  Since the bodies in this range have all been out for a couple of   years, we're all on the edge of our seats waiting for the new models to drop.  There's a lot more anticipation and potential sales waiting for Canon & Nikon in this range and I think they both know it.  Again, this is pure speculation by me and not in any way based on fact, just my knowledge of marketing and supply/demand which I deal with daily.

I know Canon needs a flagship for bragging rights if nothing else, but the 1Ds really has only one competitor in the D3x and they are pretty much still equally matched in performance and price, it really boils down to which brand you prefer.  The 1Ds was released in 11/07 and the D3x about a year later, if Nikon sticks to their 4 year release cycle, the D4x won't be released for another 2 years, Canon probably feels like they have plenty of time to put out the 1Ds and are concentrating on more profitable SLRs.

128

EOS Bodies / Re: 1Ds Mark IV in 2011 or 2012 [CR2]

« on: September 10, 2010, 11:32:14 AM »

This doesn't surprise me at all, as the world economy continues to turn around and disposable income goes up Canon needs sales to fund R&D for the next generation.  The 1Ds has never sold in great numbers and releasing a new $6 - $8K body that will NOT sell in great numbers probably doesn't make financial sense right now.  Releasing a high performance, FF body would provide entry into a market where Canon isn't currently competing.  The 1DIV comes at too high of a price point and competes with more expensive Nikon bodies so there is room here for another body to gain some market share.

I think we just might see the mythical 3D finally released to fill this niche with the 5DIII taking on the high MP "studio" duties until the next 1Ds is ready.  I believe Canon wants the 1DsIV to crash the MF party where people are willing to pay a lot more for the ultimate in IQ.  The 3D has been talked about for years, but it makes sense to release it now as it would complete Canon's advanced amateur, semi-pro lineup very nicely.  7D high performance crop, 5D ultimate FF IQ for studio work, 3D fast & FF 16-18MP for the "all of the above" shooters like myself.  Canon would literally have something for everyone who wants to step up from the Rebels and upgrade their aging XXD cameras, many of these people myself included are considering the dark side because it seems that Canon wants us to buy 2 cameras to shoot everything we like.  I still don't know what purpose the 60D serves, it seems to exist only to fill the price gap between the T2i and 7D.

The 1 series remains the ultimate workhorse with the best weather sealing, fastest FPS, best AF and great IQ, but also a niche camera.

Of course this is all wild speculation on my part, but it would allow Canon to compete on every front.  People disagree with me but I'll bet Canon execs get a little heartburn every time they hear about the D700 and it's replacement, its a market they could have been dominating for years....

129

EOS Bodies / Re: G12 & SX20 Replacements & More

« on: September 08, 2010, 01:21:38 PM »

I too think Canon will delay the release of the 1DsIV.  For one, its a niche camera that will not sell in great numbers, also I don't think the Digic IV can push the huge files produced by the more than likely >30MP sensor coming in the next 1Ds.   I would expect a 1DsIV after the introduction of the new Digic V chip.

Canon could have a lot more impact by introducing something that will shake up a larger market segment. Say maybe finally putting out a D700 competitor.  I say this ad nauseum on the Canon boards all the time, a fast FF camera with decent AF performance and fast FPS doesn't need to cost 5K, that's already been proven by the competition.  I speculate a 24MP FF sensor strapped to a 7D-like body, keeping the 7D's 19 point AF.  Extra kudos to Canon if it shoots @ 8fps....