Messages

121

Lenses / Re: If you can have ONLY 3 lenses, what would they...???

« on: September 20, 2012, 05:37:38 AM »

First off, it is a really hard choice to make. But considering the various types of things I do, I might come up with following answer.

17 TS-E (close call between the 17 and 24, choosing the 17 because of the density in switzerland (architectural) and the good usage in landscape work)
50 1.2 (got to have a standard lens, the 1.2 is just better than all the alternatives, even though it's not the best lens ever created. to be fair, there is a lack of good 50's)
70-200 2.8 IS II (i just have to have this one. this lens gets the most use any day. perfect for portraiture, sporting events, speeches etc.)

Good choice, a lot of logic in that

122

EOS Bodies / Re: The Mirrorless Future

« on: September 20, 2012, 05:35:12 AM »

The FF sensor in a body like the Fujifilm XPro-1 would be very desirable

Look at the new Sony RX1.

RX1 reminds me of Fujifilm X100. It's testing the waters to see if the market can accept the innovation. Sony's attempt is a big step forward for a small body with FF sensor, but it shows that there's still a problem with the price tag. If an all-in-one package comes for a price around 3,000, I could not imagine a body that accepts interchangeable lenses to be less than that - not to mention the new line of lenses designed to interact with the FF sensor.

Would it be cheaper than a Leica with 50mm summarit? Sure. However, there's still going to be a huge distance between that and what the average shooter would consider affordable.

Of course, we can see how the sales of RX1 turns out, but gut feeling says don't be too optimistic about it.

IMHO, a body WITH an interchangeable lens would cost more, but a body alone should cost less. $2000-$3000? - that's the price range of FF DSLR and I would buy one, if they did it right, without the "pocket camera" fanaticism. I want a nice grip and long battery life.
How about Zeiss Ikon lens system adaptation? Adding AF shouldn't be a big problem with today's technology. They could put the AF motor inside the camera body.

123

EOS Bodies / Re: Who really is the target demographic for the 6D?

« on: September 19, 2012, 09:40:04 AM »

Before the annoucement I was sceptical about some of the rumored 6D specs (like different sensor, SD slot) and some of the rest were just unclear. Now when I see that "APS-C sized body" turned out to be basically the 60D body without vari-angle LCD or flash, which would add some more value and reasons to buy it over 5D2. I would prefer a vari-angle screen instead of GPS. It's not the worst, but I expected something more advanced (even if it was more expensive), a camera that would be like 60% of the 5D3, not 40%. Canon could add just a few more or better features and 6D would be a much better camera. For now, it's just too expensive to downgrade from 5D2 or even classic 5D, but in the future (after the price drop) 6D may be a good alternative for someone who cannot afford 5D series. 6D's single SD slot is really disappointing. Specially if you want to pair it with 7D or 5D series, you'll need both CF and SD memory cards, and deal with different button layout. I thought that Nikon was crazy to put the XQD slot into their D4, now I see that they are both crazy .
Who is this camera made for? - 60D lovers lusting for FF and tired of vari-angle LCD, obviously . Similar bodies, similar controls, shared SD cards...

124

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012

« on: September 19, 2012, 09:09:07 AM »

I guess, all I have to complain about is that I live in Europe .
$2750 for 5D3 is nice, but $1750 for 6D would be nicer . I'm not a professional, but I'm more into photography than talking about expensive features I don't need. I think that 5D3 may be an overkill for me and I can't afford it atm. I hate to say this, but D600 is very tempting. I may just sell all may Canon toys, get the D600 with a nice 50/1.4 and wait till 5D3 price comes down (2015?). First I want to see some reviews...

My thoughts exactly with the exception of I dont like the Nikon feel or UI.

I don't like many things about Nikon - UI, ergonomics (backward lens mounting, backward zooming, backward focusing, grip, button layout), lack of aperture control in LiveView, possible green LCD tint , customer service, no free image editing software, more expensive higher grade lenses, arrogant fanboys. That may take some getting used to

125

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012

« on: September 19, 2012, 08:14:34 AM »

@Ecka... you don't get it.  You're far too interested in your own point of view to have a discussion... I'm asking a question how large do people think the market for the 6D will be (with the rumored specs and price) and you respond to me over and over with the same point that it's a good camera which I've agreed.   If the 6D comes out at $2500 then my point is even more valid than if it is $2100 which I am basing my point on.

And I'm not comparing the 6D to a Rebel per se... I'm imagining what customer in the market will choose this camera over the existing options just up and down the line from where this body will sit... for example top-end rebel, 7D, 5D3.

Congratulations, my friend! You've got what you wanted - Rebel/60D~ class FF.
Well, I really wanted it to be 7D~ class FF camera for $2500. Crazy world

I don't see you have anything to complain about since you can get a 5d mark iii for 2750.

I guarantee another deal will come around between now and the canon 6d release date.

I guess, all I have to complain about is that I live in Europe .
$2750 for 5D3 is nice, but $1750 for 6D would be nicer . I'm not a professional, but I'm more into photography than talking about expensive features I don't need. I think that 5D3 may be an overkill for me and I can't afford it atm. I hate to say this, but D600 is very tempting. I may just sell all may Canon toys, get the D600 with a nice 50/1.4 and wait till 5D3 price comes down (2015?). First I want to see some reviews...

126

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012

« on: September 19, 2012, 07:16:22 AM »

@Ecka... you don't get it.  You're far too interested in your own point of view to have a discussion... I'm asking a question how large do people think the market for the 6D will be (with the rumored specs and price) and you respond to me over and over with the same point that it's a good camera which I've agreed.   If the 6D comes out at $2500 then my point is even more valid than if it is $2100 which I am basing my point on.

And I'm not comparing the 6D to a Rebel per se... I'm imagining what customer in the market will choose this camera over the existing options just up and down the line from where this body will sit... for example top-end rebel, 7D, 5D3.

Congratulations, my friend! You've got what you wanted - Rebel/60D~ class FF.
Well, I really wanted it to be 7D~ class FF camera for $2500. Crazy world

127

EOS Bodies / Re: Describe the 6D in one word...

« on: September 17, 2012, 10:02:13 AM »

6D = crippled 60D and 5D3 hybrid 

128

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012

« on: September 16, 2012, 08:18:09 PM »

Actually, I know many photographers who are using 5D2 for sports, wildlife, photojournalism and they'd never touch a crop camera like 7D, purely because of the IQ difference, but they would appreciate a smaller, lighter and cheaper body with better AF system.

Are you somehow offended that I'm wondering how big is the market potential of a camera that happens appeals to you so you have to defend by saying you know "many" photographers using the 5D2 for sports... what is many?  5?  10?  20?  Of course there are some people using every device for any given purpose.  I'm talking about market potential...  thousands and thousands of units.  And I'm wondering what the typical profile of 6D customer will be and how common that will be by thinking of how the 6D lines up against the other Canon bodies in terms of features vs. price vs. intended use.

I'm not offended, really . I'm just stating my position and trying to explain why I think so .
There are reasons why people prefer 5D2 over other more or less expensive bodies. I'm just saying that when it comes to APS-C vs FF for the same price, many would choose FF even if it was slower (fps) and had less AF points. While such smaller/lighter and cheaper FF body may be very attractive even for 5D3 owners and many of them would be happy to trade their 5D3 for 6D+$1000 (if such camera turns out to be a real). Not to mention the $1500 difference predicted by others .

Well then I don't get it... I'm talking about the market size potential of the alleged 6D and you're only responding that it'll be a good camera and some people will buy it.  I don't dispute that it'll be a great camera or that some people will buy it.

So you're saying that if there was a FF for the same price as an APS-C many would choose the FF.  Yep, your're right... but it's not going to be the same price, it'll be $1200 more than the top end Rebel and will be $700 more than a 7D for less performance... other than the IQ of the sensor... and that's my point... that's the only reason to buy it over a Rebel or 7D but to how many people will it be worth the extra money.   Don't think about it in terms of yourself or any Canon Rumors member... everyone that spends any time on here is already an "enthusiast" and an advanced photography consumer compared to the millions that walk into Best Buy and pick up a Rebel.

Let me remind you that the starting argument was about 6D MSRP, which I think should be around $2500. It would be $1000 cheaper than 5D3 and $600 more than the expected 7D replacement ($1900). You can't have a new FF DSLR for cheap, not yet. Now, why are you comparing 6D with a Rebel?

...other than the IQ of the sensor... and that's my point... that's the only reason to buy it over a Rebel...

That's ridiculous. Compare it with something that's at least weather-sealed + some other "pro features". With FF you are not getting twice the camera, but you are getting twice the picture (2.5 times to be exact). So, 2.5 x 4.5fps is actually more than 1 x 8fps . I may be wrong, but I think that $2100 MSRP is just a wishful thinking. Just like $1500 D600 with 16bit sensor in it  .
If your position is like - 6D must be $2100 or less, otherwise 5D3 or 7D would be a better camera, because you think that most people are more interested in speed than IQ and that's the politics of the market - then good luck . I'm gonna get some sleep now.

129

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 6D Specs Leaked?

« on: September 16, 2012, 05:00:53 PM »

11 point AF?  Seems to be not much different from 9.

Well, the two more next to the center one in comparison to my 60d should come in handy even for very basic af tracking. If the 6d af is at least a very precise on all points (i.e. closed loop, all cross with *all* lenses unlike 5d3) I'd be fine with it since I don't shoot sports. But in comparison to the Nikon d600 it's still a very weak spec.

Yea, I just hope it's all wrong info and it will have 19 point AF system from 7D + CF card slot + vari-angle LCD (touchscreen should be nice for AF tracking in movie mode). 

130

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012

« on: September 16, 2012, 04:39:06 PM »

Actually, I know many photographers who are using 5D2 for sports, wildlife, photojournalism and they'd never touch a crop camera like 7D, purely because of the IQ difference, but they would appreciate a smaller, lighter and cheaper body with better AF system.

Are you somehow offended that I'm wondering how big is the market potential of a camera that happens appeals to you so you have to defend by saying you know "many" photographers using the 5D2 for sports... what is many?  5?  10?  20?  Of course there are some people using every device for any given purpose.  I'm talking about market potential...  thousands and thousands of units.  And I'm wondering what the typical profile of 6D customer will be and how common that will be by thinking of how the 6D lines up against the other Canon bodies in terms of features vs. price vs. intended use.

I'm not offended, really . I'm just stating my position and trying to explain why I think so .
There are reasons why people prefer 5D2 over other more or less expensive bodies. I'm just saying that when it comes to APS-C vs FF for the same price, many would choose FF even if it was slower (fps) and had less AF points. While such smaller/lighter and cheaper FF body may be very attractive even for 5D3 owners and many of them would be happy to trade their 5D3 for 6D+$1000 (if such camera turns out to be a real). Not to mention the $1500 difference predicted by others .

131

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 6D Specs Leaked?

« on: September 16, 2012, 04:05:58 PM »

11 point AF? 
Seems to be not much different from 9.

132

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012

« on: September 16, 2012, 03:24:06 PM »

Get ready for $2500 MSRP .

A $2500 MSRP would mean a €2500 MSRP price in Europe. That would be a NON-competitive price. For 400 euro more, you can get the 5D MKIII. It just does not make sense unless it is the opening price that needs to go down with at least 600 euro but only after 4 to 6 months. By then, most may have saved the money to buy the 5D MKIII

5D3 is $3500 MSRP, regardless of the actual retail prices. I think it is logical to assume that the retail price of this rumored poor-man's 5D would be lower than it's MSRP as well. The old 5D2 is $2200 MSRP, but you can get it for $1899 from amazon (atm). If 6D was $2000 MSRP and even lower retail price, then who is going to buy either 5D3 or 7D2 (which should be near $1900 MSRP) ?? Not me!

Currently, the only reason to buy a 7D over a 60D or 5D2 is for the speed, AF, etc. for sports shooting... and those benefits will still exist over this alleged 6D.   So (as I said above) I see it the other way around... who will buy the 6D over a 5D3 or 7D?   Yes of course some will buy it... if you don't shoot sports, and don't need the advanced features of a 5D3, and understand the IQ advantage of FF over a crop (eg. 60/650D)... then this 6D is perfect... but how many consumers fit into that category?  You do, and so do many people on this site.... but that is a small slice of the market Canon needs to hit to make decent sales volume.

Sorry, I see no logic in that. I think there are many more not-so-rich enthusiast photographers (like me, perhaps ) than sport/action PROs. I did buy 7D a few years ago, but not for the fps or a bit better sensor (going from 500D). I couldn't afford 5D2 back then and I liked 7D AF system, rugged body, CF slot (I was going to upgrade to 5D series anyway, so I didn't want to waste $ on SD for 60D), AFMA (for my 2 Sigmas), wireless flash control, good battery, ergonomics ... and I still think that 7D is one of the best Canon DSLR in history.
IMHO, most of us would buy 6D for less than $2000 over 5D3 or 7D2. 4.5fps is not that slow

Right, I agree... there is a market (e.g. you and people like you) but I'm questioning the size of that market.  I didn't suggest there are more sports shooters than non-sports shooters.   And we don't need to consider "rich people" because they are a narrow slice of any market as well (depending how you define rich but perhaps we can agree there are few people with so much money that they wank into a store and say give me the most expensive camera you have).   $2k is no small potatoes for a body so the purchaser typically has a reason to plunk down that kind of cash... so what is the reason in the case of a 6D?

Assume any 1-series body are out of the question due to price and price is an issue... and consider the choices you face:

6D vs 5D3:  5D3 is $1400 more but if you need the features of the "pro features" of the 5D3 then 6D is not even in your sights

6D vs. 7D:  If you are into sports, wildlife, etc. 7D is the better choice for a few reasons (debatable of course)

6D vs. 60/650D:  Price difference is $1200 bucks for same features other than sensor size and most consumers out there are not acutely aware of the IQ benefits of the FF sensor.

So, the typical purchaser of a 6D would be someone who does not need the pro features of a 5D3, does not shoot much sports/wildlife, and is aware of the IQ advantage of FF and willing to pay extra $1200 for it (not to mention the investment in lenses to realize that IQ advantage).

Sure, many of the folks on say Canon Rumors are excited to get a FF camera for $2k or less... but that is a relatively small market.   Most of the world doesn't know what FF is and the sales guy in Best Buy isn't going to have much luck upselling from a 650D to a 6D because "it has a FF sensor".

Actually, I know many photographers who are using 5D2 for sports, wildlife, photojournalism and they'd never touch a crop camera like 7D, purely because of the IQ difference, but they would appreciate a smaller, lighter and cheaper body with better AF system.

133

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012

« on: September 16, 2012, 02:38:09 PM »

Get ready for $2500 MSRP .

A $2500 MSRP would mean a €2500 MSRP price in Europe. That would be a NON-competitive price. For 400 euro more, you can get the 5D MKIII. It just does not make sense unless it is the opening price that needs to go down with at least 600 euro but only after 4 to 6 months. By then, most may have saved the money to buy the 5D MKIII

5D3 is $3500 MSRP, regardless of the actual retail prices. I think it is logical to assume that the retail price of this rumored poor-man's 5D would be lower than it's MSRP as well. The old 5D2 is $2200 MSRP, but you can get it for $1899 from amazon (atm). If 6D was $2000 MSRP and even lower retail price, then who is going to buy either 5D3 or 7D2 (which should be near $1900 MSRP) ?? Not me!

Currently, the only reason to buy a 7D over a 60D or 5D2 is for the speed, AF, etc. for sports shooting... and those benefits will still exist over this alleged 6D.   So (as I said above) I see it the other way around... who will buy the 6D over a 5D3 or 7D?   Yes of course some will buy it... if you don't shoot sports, and don't need the advanced features of a 5D3, and understand the IQ advantage of FF over a crop (eg. 60/650D)... then this 6D is perfect... but how many consumers fit into that category?  You do, and so do many people on this site.... but that is a small slice of the market Canon needs to hit to make decent sales volume.

Sorry, I see no logic in that. I think there are many more not-so-rich enthusiast photographers (like me, perhaps ) than sport/action PROs. I did buy 7D a few years ago, but not for the fps or a bit better sensor (going from 500D). I couldn't afford 5D2 back then and I liked 7D AF system, rugged body, CF slot (I was going to upgrade to 5D series anyway, so I didn't want to waste $ on SD for 60D), AFMA (for my 2 Sigmas), wireless flash control, good battery, ergonomics ... and I still think that 7D is one of the best Canon DSLR in history.
IMHO, most of us would buy 6D for less than $2000 over 5D3 or 7D2. 4.5fps is not that slow

134

Lenses / Re: If you can have ONLY 3 lenses, what would they...???

« on: September 16, 2012, 01:41:39 PM »

16-35 2.8 II
24-70 2.8 II
70-200 2.8 II

Covers the focal range for me.  If I can't get what I need with those lenses, I need to move myself not get a longer lens.

May I ask how often do you shoot (let's say) at 91mm or 194mm focal length? Why do you need to cover the whole range? Just curious .
My experience with zooms was that I tend to find the sweet spot or two and use it like a prime lens (to minimize the distortion, aberrations, softness etc.).

24mm 1.4 II
50mm 1.2
70-200 2.8 II

I can't believe so many people would be fine with nothing faster than 2.8 in their kit.

Me too

135

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012

« on: September 16, 2012, 01:28:04 PM »

Get ready for $2500 MSRP .

A $2500 MSRP would mean a €2500 MSRP price in Europe. That would be a NON-competitive price. For 400 euro more, you can get the 5D MKIII. It just does not make sense unless it is the opening price that needs to go down with at least 600 euro but only after 4 to 6 months. By then, most may have saved the money to buy the 5D MKIII

5D3 is $3500 MSRP, regardless of the actual retail prices. I think it is logical to assume that the retail price of this rumored poor-man's 5D would be lower than it's MSRP as well. The old 5D2 is $2200 MSRP, but you can get it for $1899 from amazon (atm). If 6D was $2000 MSRP and even lower retail price, then who is going to buy either 5D3 or 7D2 (which should be near $1900 MSRP) ?? Not me!