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Messages - unfocused

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Lenses / Re: Canon Refurb Store ... Not Such A Good Deal
« on: May 07, 2012, 04:35:28 PM »
Like everything else, this all comes down to "Buyer/Seller Beware." You have to do your homework.

eBay seems like a great place to sell lenses, but not such a good place to buy them. :)

I'm amused at the retailers who list products on eBay for more than they are selling them on their websites. I guess they've figured out that there are a certain percentage of eBay buyers who don't bother checking prices. Like others, I have often noticed used items going for more on eBay than the refurbished store price (which comes with a warranty and the assurance that Canon has brought the product up to specs.) 

I have had the best success on eBay with accessories, especially lighting accessories and camera bags (always used, never new). I imagine that's because both are items that people buy, use for awhile and then either don't need anymore or decide they need something different.

I've bought from the refurbished store. Like anywhere else, you need to compare prices and decide what is and isn't a good deal. My main complaint with the refurb store is the randomness of their stock. Some lenses show up quickly and frequently, while others never appear. For example, I have a hard time believing that Canon never gets any 200mm f2.8 primes in for refurbishing. I mean, it's a lens that's been out for 16 years, but none ever get returned to stores? Yet, the 100mm Macro L showed up on the site less than a year after it was released. Still, it's a fun place to window shop and see what they have.

My personal philosophy is, if the margin is small, I'm willing to pay a premium for new. Second choice is refurbished. I've never bought a used lens or camera and would need a significant discount to convince me to do so. But that's just me.

The great thing is that in the internet age we can instantly compare prices and even have resources like Canonpricewatch.com to do most of the work for us.

This is a rare thread. It started foolish and ended up serious. Just the opposite of most of the threads on this site.

I do wonder though, if someone could enlighten me about something. (BTW, I do have Jewish friends and family, but none are Orthodox and all are about as observant as I am of Christianity – which is to say, not much.) This discussion has focused on B&H, but I believe Adorama also is owned and operated by Orthodox Jews. Yet, I notice that the two stores do not always follow exactly the same schedules and policies regarding ordering on Shabbat.

Really, just more of an academic question because I like to learn things, but can anyone enlighten me on why Adorama might follow slightly different policies? Or, am I mistaken.

EOS Bodies / Re: Idea for Canon?
« on: May 04, 2012, 11:11:25 PM »
Don't want to derail this thread, because it's actually going in a more intelligent way than about 90% of the recent threads on this forum, but I am curious, what exactly does Canon need to "bounce back" from?

Nikon D800?

And we have inside knowledge of sales figures to know how each camera is doing? And, while we're at it, how about a crystal ball to know what their total sales and net profits will be a year after the cameras have been released?

It is like comparing a Fiat to a nice BMW when it comes to DR!

Just a piece of advice. Obscure references don't work very well as analogies. I have no idea if a Fiat is better or worse than a BMW.  Nor do I care. But then again, I don't really care whether a Canon 5DIII or a Nikon D800 scores higher on some equally obscure, arbitrary test.

FYI - Fiat own Ferrari...  ;D

Ha! Thanks. I guess that helps. I know both are better than my 2000 Ford F150. On the other hand, if there is eight inches of snow outside, my 4x4 Truck is probably going to do better than either. Which is kind of the point with cameras: test results are nice, but what makes a difference is how you use it and what you personally need.

EOS Bodies / Re: New Extensive Firmware for the Canon EOS 7D? [CR1]
« on: May 04, 2012, 11:45:02 AM »
I'd see the introduction of new firmware as an indication that Canon may be planing a new sensor for the 7D2, and needs to hold on for dear life until that can happen.  Its also an indication (assuming true.  its CR1 so far...) that Canon is still investing in that market position (premium 1.6x prosumer).   I hope they blow socks off with 7D2, frankly, but the market window of opportunity (it seems to me) is shrinking -- 9-12 months remaining, at the max.   Except for the 1Ds3, 7D is currently as old or older than any other body in Canon's entire DSLR lineup since the begining. 

Actually I hope 7D2 is positioned as a pro-level 1.6x body

I'm also anxiously awaiting the next generation of 7DII, but just want to point out that the 7D is not as old as its competitor the Nikon D300S,  and it is still a far better camera. I also just checked and it's still in the top 20 on Amazon's list as of this a.m. (And has been in the top 100 for 970 days -- which pretty much coincides with its entire life cycle) 

So, while I'm anxious to see what the next generation brings, I'm not sure Canon will feel any competitive pressure to release a new model until Nikon makes a move as well. I'm still hoping for Photokina.

EOS Bodies / Re: Idea for Canon?
« on: May 04, 2012, 11:30:53 AM »
If Canon really wants to bounce back from this whole low ISO IQ and DR thing...

Don't want to derail this thread, because it's actually going in a more intelligent way than about 90% of the recent threads on this forum, but I am curious, what exactly does Canon need to "bounce back" from?

It is like comparing a Fiat to a nice BMW when it comes to DR!

Just a piece of advice. Obscure references don't work very well as analogies. I have no idea if a Fiat is better or worse than a BMW.  Nor do I care. But then again, I don't really care whether a Canon 5DIII or a Nikon D800 scores higher on some equally obscure, arbitrary test.

How many times and in how many threads do we have to rehash the same old craziness?

I commend Neuro and others for their patience in explaining a few facts to people.

Canon did their market research. The found that customers were generally satisfied with the 5DII except for the autofocus, weathersealing and a few other features. They also found that real customers (wedding and event photographers) would snap up a camera with improved ISO performance. They calculated what the proper price point would be to capture the largest and virtually only remaining professional market (wedding and event photographers).

The camera is here and as Canon knew from its market research, it is selling very well to their target audience.

They didn't design the camera for people who post on forums. They didn't even design it for enthusiasts like myself. They designed it for photographers who are in a very competitive business and have to have a tool that will give them an edge. I doesn't makes a dime's worth of difference what its testing geek "scores" might be and it doesn't make a difference that it might not be what you wanted. 

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« on: May 02, 2012, 11:14:08 PM »
I want to believe. I want to believe.

Seriously, there are a few things that lead me to believe we will see a 7DII in the next six months.

1) Canon cannot keep recycling the same 18mp sensor forever. It would be unusual for Canon to put a new sensor in a Rebel first, but even if they do that, it puts a lot of pressure on them to upgrade the 7D sensor. I can't see them leaving the same sensor in the 7D for another year if they upgrade the Rebel or the 60D Super Rebel.

2) Photokina is traditionally a consumer show. I believe Canon will want something to showcase at Photokina and a new 7DII seems a good bet.

3) The 7D may be getting a little long in the tooth, but it's still clearly their top crop camera. Not so with Nikon's D300s, which is looking even more dated these days. Competitive pressure is heavy on Nikon and I can't see Canon letting Nikon refresh the D300s without offering an upgraded 7DII.

4) Canon still has to satisfy the APS-H shooters who lost their beloved 1.3 crop. A 1.6 7DII with image quality equal to the old 1D IV is very doable and would address the concerns of sport and wildlife shooters who want more reach.

Wishful thinking? A little. But not totally divorced from reality.

EOS Bodies / Re: LR4.1 RC to blame. Check this out!
« on: May 01, 2012, 07:18:44 PM »
Aren't you worried about getting arrested for that graffiti on the wall. :)

The reason I posed my question is because Canon officials have said on several occasions that they will be watching the market response to higher megapixel DSLRs before deciding how to respond.  It would be unfortunate if they interpreted the positive response to the D800 as a positive response to resolution rather than image quality—and DR in particular.

It would only be unfortunate if the positive response to the D800 is due to dynamic range. But, what inside market research has anyone on this forum done to know that it isn't due to resolution? Just because we might want it to be something, doesn't make it so.

Canon is going to do market research on the 5DIII and the D800 (and dozens of other cameras). Rather than rely on a small, vocal, non-representative sample of individuals on internet forums, they will be talking to real customers.

I hate to break it to ya, but Canon isn't going to recall the camera just to add DR.

Exactly. The 5DIII and the D800 have now been released. Take your pick or take a pass. But people need to quit obsessing over what their dream camera might have been. Sorry, this model does not come delivered by a fairy princess riding a unicorn. Maybe next time.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon did everything it could in 5D3
« on: May 01, 2012, 12:27:22 PM »
I'm sorry, I don't buy this theory for a nanosecond.

I think the most likely reason that the 5D3 has the specification it has is that it is designed for wedding and event photographers. If you look at this market, the price, image quality and framerate is pretty well perfect, from what I understand... Canon produce(s) cameras for markets, in order to make money.

Exactly. I started a thread with a similar thought a few weeks back. I absolutely agree that Canon very shrewdly analyzed the market, figured out what event and wedding photographers needed and calculated a price point that would maximize both profits and sales to this market. And, frankly, wedding and event photography is about the only remaining large professional market in photography.

When Canon was just an upstart going against Nikon 40 years ago, they targeted the sports and wildlife markets and rode that to dominance in the industry. Now, they have focused on the wedding and event market and it's clear that they intend to make Canon the tool of choice for these photographers.

Nikon may have produced a very nice camera, but high test scores don't guarantee a market.

Getting back to the original post and some of the reactions.

The single most important thing any company has to pay attention to is sales figures. People act like that's a bad thing. But, it's not.

That's the way it should be because only sales figures are reliable. I know from decades of dealing with focus groups and polling that all the information that is gathered is useful, but it is only people's opinion. People lie. They say they want something, but they really don't. What matters is people's behavior. What are you really spending your money on. Not what you say you will spend your money on.

In a political campaign, the behavior is encapsulated in the ballot the voter casts. In the consumer world, it is encapsulated in buying decisions. All the pontificating, ranting, whining and speculating that occurs on forums is meaningless unless it has some connection to buying decisions. And, I strongly suspect that the vast majority of the multiple discussions here about the 5DIII have little or no connection to buying decisions.

Understand too, that almost no one on this forum is a "persuadable" consumer. Almost everyone here has already made up their minds about their brand preferences. The cost of getting a canonrumors forum reader to change behavior is too high and the population is too small.

If you think the 5DIII is a good value, buy it. If you don't, then don't buy it. Cast your ballot with your wallet. Because all the chatter on this forum is not going to turn the 5DIII into something it is not.

Lenses / Re: What's the best deal you've ever gotten on a lens?
« on: April 30, 2012, 09:29:48 PM »
I'm thinking it might be the 70-300 mm L I bought this morning from Adorama before they ended the sale. Thanks Canon Rumors Guy.

Lenses / Re: waiting for a new 100-400mm lens
« on: April 30, 2012, 12:38:43 PM »
i know there is a big value lens thread right now, for this lens 100-400mm L whats a reasonable used price?

When it is in stock, the Canon Refurb Store (USA) sells it for $1,359. Cheaper when they offer their special sales, but hard to come by. (It's currently out of stock). CanonPriceWatch.com shows a used one just sold at B&H for $1,349.

So, for pricing purposes, I would say a reasonable used price would be in the neighborhood of $1,200 to $1,350 if in top condition. The low end for a sale from an individual (no warranty, etc.) the higher end from a dealer that offers a warranty or return.

BTW, I was was waiting for the next version, but then when I read it would likely be twice the price, decided to pull the trigger on a refurbished last year. Glad I did.

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