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Messages - unfocused

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1081
EOS Bodies / Canon Road Map Becoming More Clear
« on: July 22, 2012, 06:21:13 PM »
With the rumored specifications for an entry-level full frame DSLR, coupled with the announcements of the past year, it seems to me that Canon's product road map for the near future is coming into focus.

My guess is that the rapid pace of advancements in DSLR technology during the first decade of this century made it difficult to plan new product releases with any consistency. As the market and technology matures, I think we will see a more consistent approach from both Canon and Nikon.

I'm more familiar with Canon, so I'll use their products, but I think the same will essentially apply to Nikon.

Entry-level DSLRs: Canon has consistently offered several choices in the Rebel line, from a very low cost budget model up to a fully tricked-out version. The aim was to make sure they leave no potential customers on the table due to budget constraints, while at the same time having sufficient models to allow retailers to up-sell customers. With the T4i, I don't see that changing. The only change is that the bar keeps getting raised.

Step-up/enthusiasts DSLRs: Canon and Nikon currently have only one model each in this category. For Canon it is the 60D. While many 40D users were surprised when Canon seemed to "downgrade" this model, it is quite clear from their sales that they knew what they were doing. It appears that this line will soon split in two. An APS-C version and a full-frame version. Aside from the sensor, expect that these two cameras will be essentially the same – composite body, flip-screen, touch-screen, same or similar autofocus, etc. Given the differences in sensor size, the APS-C version will have a faster frame rate, while the full-frame version will have better high ISO performance. I will be surprised if either one offers micro-focus adjustment. (I think Canon feels the hassle of dealing with customers who screw up their lens' focusing isn't worth the effort. I know people on this forum consider it an important feature, but this forum is not typical of the customer base.)

Professional/pro-sumer DSLRs: This category has been filled by the 7D and the 5D. The problem in the past though, was that the pace of change was so fast that in the year between the 5D and 7D releases, the technology and market changed enough that Canon ended up with a 5DII that lacked many of the features found in the 7D. Just as the 60D and the "entry-level" full frame will likely mirror each other, I expect the 7DII and the 5DIII to mirror each other in features as well, with the size of the sensor being the main differentiating factor. The 7D, with its APS-C sensor, will likely have a higher frame rate, while the 5DIII will have a one-to-two stop advantage in ISO performance. But, other than those differences, necessitated by the sensor sizes, expect the two to share almost all other features.

Finally, of course, both Nikon and Canon have their flagship DSLRs. We've seen their offerings there and I don't expect it to change.

The wild card, of course, is the rumored high resolution DSLR from Canon. If it materializes, I expect it to be the same body as the 5DIII, but with a slower frame rate and lower maximum ISO. I expect the pricing to be identical to the 5DIII. Buyers can pick their poison – the 5DIII with superior low-light performance or the 5D HD with up to 46mp resolution.

This all seems logical and consistent with both Canon's and Nikon's actions of the past year.

1082
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS M Specs
« on: July 22, 2012, 05:41:54 PM »
For those who don't get this camera, let me suggest that we may not understand the generational and cultural differences.

For old American guys like me, a viewfinder is non-negotiable. But for many people, especially the young, who shoot mostly with smartphones, the idea of sticking your eye up against the back of the camera is equally foreign and unnatural.

Over the last couple of years, I've often scratched my head at some of Canon's product announcements. But, I've also learned that they seldom get the market wrong. I expect this one to be a big winner.

1083
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS M Specs
« on: July 22, 2012, 12:38:03 PM »
Its not for me. Thx.

Nor for me.

But, then again, none of the mirror less interchangeable lens cameras are of interest to me. (Don't like holding a camera body out a foot from my face squinting in the sun and the whole interchangeable lens thing seems to defeat the purpose of having a smallish alternative to a DSLR.)

Still I know I'm in the minority and not the target market for this camera. The Nikon 1 system seems to be selling very well, and this is clearly superior. If they can outsell Nikon and their lesser competitors (which I believe they will) this will be a huge success for Canon.

1084
DISTORTION!?! :o
I'd probably step back and use a longer lens to reduce the distortion.
What's wrong with distortion? Makes the image more meaningful and personal than a picture postcard view.

1085
Dropping users with the 10's of millions of EF-S lenses would more likely kill Canon. 
The APS-C / EF-s market makes up most of Canon's DSLR sales, and they are eating Nikon and Sony's lunch.
I love APS-H, but I do not see Canon killing off themselves purposely. If low cost FF cameras are actually coming out, our APS-H bodies may be the last of a 20 year run. (My Kodak DCS 460 from 1995).
APS-H was originally made due to lithography limitations, it was te largest senso size that could be made with one pass.  The restriction is lifted now, and 12 inch wafers are used instead of 8 in wafers to give better yield.
There really are no compelling reasons to keep churning them out.

I thought i offered compelling reasons. Lol

You were wrong. You didn't.
Thanks for your input.

You are welcome. Sorry if I offended you, but this topic has been beaten to death and nothing new has been added by this thread. Mt. Spokane's response said it all.

You are a wedding photographer. If you feel strongly about APS-H, then explain how it would be superior for your profession to the 5DIII which Canon targeted specifically to wedding photographers (among others). If you can build a compelling case as to why APS-H would give you something you can't get and need with the 5DIII, then that would add to the conversation.

1086
Site Information / Re: In Sympathy for CR Guy
« on: July 17, 2012, 10:55:46 AM »
Words fail me. I am reminded of this image from August Sander taken just over 100 years ago.

http://www.blog.unfocusedmg.com/?p=215

1087
Dropping users with the 10's of millions of EF-S lenses would more likely kill Canon. 
The APS-C / EF-s market makes up most of Canon's DSLR sales, and they are eating Nikon and Sony's lunch.
I love APS-H, but I do not see Canon killing off themselves purposely. If low cost FF cameras are actually coming out, our APS-H bodies may be the last of a 20 year run. (My Kodak DCS 460 from 1995).
APS-H was originally made due to lithography limitations, it was te largest senso size that could be made with one pass.  The restriction is lifted now, and 12 inch wafers are used instead of 8 in wafers to give better yield.
There really are no compelling reasons to keep churning them out.
I thought i offered compelling reasons. Lol

You were wrong. You didn't.

1088
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« on: July 16, 2012, 09:50:11 AM »
Am I good or what? Exactly what I've been predicting for months now. You can expect the 70D to have pretty much the same specs, with an APS-C sensor.

7DII will be essentially the 5DIII with an APS-C sensor. It's all perfectly logical and predictable.

What's with all the whining? Did you really expect to get all the 5DIII features for half the price? If you think Nikon is better, get a Nikon. That's how the marketplace works.

Personally, I like these specs. Plenty of room to differentiate the 70D and this model from the 7DII and the 5DIII.

1089
Lenses / Re: lenses for my 7D - please help!
« on: July 13, 2012, 12:18:49 PM »
If you are shooting mostly outdoors with the telephoto, you can save about half the cost with the f4 L instead of the f 2.8.

Although the 15-85mm is somewhat slow, I prefer its range to that of the 17-55 2.8. It just depends on which is more important: speed or range. I find the extra 2mm at the wide end very important (essentially the difference between a 24mm and a 28mm wide angle).

I have no opinion on the 50mm, but my gut tells me that it is a lot of money for not a big advantage on your budget.

1090
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Is the future of DSLRs FF only?
« on: July 13, 2012, 12:04:01 PM »
Just my 2 cents, but Canon, well since 2004-2005 had been making a killing on EF-s lenses and the rebel and xxd line of cameras...  While the old school side of me yells, yes, make everything full frame... that's the way it always USED to be and the way it should be, the newage side of me says a 7d image full res ISO 100 has more resolution and detail and clarity than a 5d2 or 3 or likely a 1dx full frame scaled down and then upsized to the same dimensions... heck if you take the 7d image and downscale to matched the crop factor of the 5d2,3,1dx, it would likely be as good...  So while you can "ALWAYS" crop to match the scale of the crop cameras... you lose vital detail, which is one of the big draws of the D800 from what I can tell.  While we are always looking for the best of both worlds, one size fits all camera, in all reality, it isn't as cut and dry.

Careful, reasonable and logical posts like that are just asking for trouble. :)

I can't believe people continue to rehash this same old theme. I guess it's mostly the result of a summer lull in new product announcements, so there is nothing else to talk about.

For the record:

Someday, all DSLRs will be obsolete. Just probably not in my lifetime, which is all I really care about;

As long as they keep selling cameras with the legacy 35mm format, neither Nikon nor Canon are going to abandon that format;

As long as they keep selling cameras in the APS-C format, neither Nikon nor Canon are going to abandon that format;

Each format has it's advantages and corresponding customer base. It is ridiculously self-centered for the advocates of one format to suggest that their preferred format could ever meet the demands of those who prefer the other;

There is absolutely no reason why an "entry-level" legacy format camera and a professional quality APS-C format camera cannot co-exist in the marketplace. Each appeals to different customers and one will not significantly affect the target market of the other.

1091
EOS Bodies / Re: How does Canon get input from photographers?
« on: July 12, 2012, 10:49:05 PM »
The Camera Store in Calgary has received one 1Dx so far.  I am next on the list so I'll let you know when it arrives.  For what it's worth, I am CPS and heading to London.

Love your website. Nice work. The U.S. Olympic team should have hired you for their portraits. :)

1092
EOS Bodies / Re: How does Canon get input from photographers?
« on: July 12, 2012, 05:58:48 PM »
Most companies study their own sales figures first and foremost. They track those figures to look for trends and to see what is working and what is not. They study those figures to determine who is buying their product and build a profile of the targeted customer.

When you fill out the registration card for a camera or lens, you are helping them with their research. Years of experience gives them a good idea of what percentage of users actually register the product and the profile of those users.

Opinions are nice, but what really matters is what prompts a customer to open his or her wallet and that means looking at hard sales figures. Sales figures don't lie. Surveys do (or rather the people being surveyed do).

As for their competitors, they parse any available industry reports to see what the competitors are doing and to get clues as to what they may be doing in the future. Since these are publicly traded companies, they can check the documents that each must file with the respective regulatory agencies in the countries where the companies' stock is sold.

In the internet age, I am sure Canon and Nikon track the Amazon rankings and similar reports for competitive purposes. They have a distinct advantage over the rest of us, because they know how many units they have shipped/sold to Amazon. For example, if the D800 has an average ranking of #7 and the T3i has an average ranking of number #6, while the 5DIII has an average ranking of #8, they can pretty well pinpoint how many D800 units Amazon is selling.

They know what percentage of their total units are shipped to Amazon, so they can extrapolate what percentage of total units Nikon is shipping to Amazon.

That's just one tiny example. Bottom line though, is that the most important data they get is from sales.

With the high-end products (1Dx), Canon knows quite a bit about their customers and may have established personal relationships with many of them. As Mt. Spokane points out, some of these customers may even have a contractual relationship with Canon that allows Canon to access their opinions on the latest equipment Canon is developing.

With a new product, they may do focus groups. With a mature market, like DSLRs, they pretty much know what the customers will buy.

I give Canon credit. It appears that with the 5DIII they did some very focused research because the camera seems well targeted to wedding and event photographers. Just judging by the comments on this small forum, it seems that people who make their living shooting weddings have been very pleased with the 5DIII. A sign that they did some well-focused market research.

As a general rule, a forum like this is going to be about the last place a company looks at for research. Why? Well one of the cardinal rules of research is that you do not want the subjects to self-select. To be accurate, research of any sort requires that the subjects be selected randomly so that everyone in the target universe has a roughly equal chance of being selected. A forum audience is hopelessly skewed and is never going to be representative of the mass of users.

On the other hand, they very likely do conduct some type of "Google Alert" type monitoring to get a sense for what is making its way across the internet. For example, if they find that on 500 photography forums there is a sudden spike in the terms "Canon and White Rubber Grip" they know they have an issue that needs to be addressed. But, as far as reading individual posts on this or any other forum. Highly, highly unlikely.


1093
EOS Bodies / Re: Mirrorless Update - APS-C? [CR2]
« on: July 12, 2012, 05:24:23 PM »
Then no one would buy it. The "classic" looks way better.


Who cares how they look?  You aren't taking pictures of them, you're taking pictures with them.

I hated using my AE-1 - rotten ergonomics.  Much better with an actual grip.


Canon users and CRs members do care:

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=7984.msg145588;topicseen#new


Yes. All 12 of them.

Just one more example of why people are delusional if they think Canon should pay any attention at all to the ramblings on this forum. This is entertainment, but under no circumstances should anyone think that the opinions expressed here are typical or representative of the customer base.

1094
EOS Bodies / Re: Mirrorless Update - APS-C? [CR2]
« on: July 12, 2012, 11:42:04 AM »
Well, that would be a pleasant surprise.

A decent rangefinder and "classic" styling would complete the package.

Interesting though that they continue to essentially recycle the 18 mp sensor.  It makes me wonder if the rumored 70D will also use the hybrid 18 mp sensor and Canon saves a new sensor for the 7DII.

1095
EOS Bodies / Re: New Product Announcement Invites for July 23, 2012
« on: July 10, 2012, 03:13:23 PM »
I agree, at best it will probably be the same sensor as the G1X, which is essentially an APS-C sensor cut down to an unappealing aspect ratio.

The Fujis are still more appealing: cool design and nice, standard APS-C sized and proportioned sensor. I just don't want to invest in a non-compatible lens mount.

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