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1096
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
« on: February 21, 2013, 03:37:47 PM »
Hopefully Canon is very scared - and taking Nikon's recent R&D push seriously.  They need to respond immediately...

Respond to what?  Sorry, but no, they really don't.  To those who say, "Nikon is handing Canon their asses," or "Canon should be scared," understand that at the most fundamental level, camera sales are what matter.  The finance and marketing divisons within a major corporation, especially a conservative one like Canon, are the voices that determine the ultimate output from the R&D side of the organization, in part because they control the input (i.e. funding) into that R&D. 

As long as Canon continues to sell more cameras and lenses than Nikon, the finance and marketing folks will continue to say that the ship is sailing along fine, it ain't broke and there's nothing to fix...

Neuro, you had me up until that "ship is sailing along fine..." stuff.

Not trying to single you out, because I know you know better and I know you aren't guilty of the sin I'm about to attack. But, I can never figure out why otherwise intelligent people think a multinational, multi-billion dollar, profitable company is stupid.

Canon is successful because they produce excellent products and they do so at a price that customers view as good value for the dollar/yen/euro,yuan etc. I can't understand anyone who buys Canon products and then says they are "crap" etc. What kind of consumer are they if they buy stuff they don't like. Everybody makes a few mistakes, but for the most part, I like the stuff I buy. I wouldn't buy it if I didn't.

I also don't understand people who whine about marketing. It's particularly funny when photographers complain about marketing, since photography is pretty much all about marketing. If you take pictures to express beauty -- that's marketing. If you take pictures to convey an idea -- that's marketing. If you take pictures to entertain -- that's marketing. If you take pictures to share memories -- that's marketing. And, of course, if you ever take a single dime for a picture, that's marketing. It's ALL MARKETING. That's what we do.

On a more practical level, what kind of products do you think Canon would be producing if it weren't for their marketing divisions? I can guarantee you that if it were left to the engineers, not one of us would want what they produce. It's that market research that allows them to develop products that people want to buy.

Finally, I don't understand all the Nikon vs. Canon hate stuff – both the self-haters who buy Canon gear and participate in a Canon forum and then constantly complain about Canon. Nor do I understand those who act like Nikon is the worst thing ever and get all upset when Nikon produces a good quality product at a good price.

Personally, I've loving the D7100. I will never buy one, but I know that Nikon's aggressive strategy toward both features and pricing will put pressure on Canon to give us more for less. Why do people think the street price of the 5DIII has dropped since introduction – competition.

Congratulations Nikon, you've introduced a fine camera.

1097
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« on: February 20, 2013, 06:03:57 PM »
Where did you get this rumor from - CR :-> ? I think the decisive Canon people are in Japan and a small circle of execs (like the CEO in a recent interview) and maybe some tech people, and I would be very surprised if any information from places like this would reach them - most likely they rely on their internal marketing studies and some direct feedback from cps professionals and beta testers.

How harmful would it be for them to pay a small team of photo nerds to surf the web all day and find out what buyers want?
(Heck, I'd do it for free if they let me try some prototypes every now and then.)

Very harmful.

The data would not be simply useless, it would be misleading garbage.

Market research is a science. Canon has decades of hard data based on its sales figures. In addition, everyone who fills out a warranty card goes into a data base that Canon can mine for additional information. They scour competitors annual reports and sales figures, just as the competitors scour theirs.

The data is supplemented with surveys that adhere to strict standards to assure that they are polling a representative sample of customers. Those surveys are no doubt conducted on every continent to study trends in each region. They also likely use focus groups of key customer subsets to flesh out the data. They use field testers to try products out in the real world and give them feedback.

A basic rule of any polling is that you never, never use subjects that self-select. They are notoriously unreliable and not representative of the larger universe. Just one tiny example shows how fruitless it would be: there is zero ability to match up the data on this website with actual buying patterns. There is nothing that could assure Canon that the whining, trolling and fantasizing that goes on on internet forums has any relationship whatsoever to sales.

At most, they may employ robots to search the internet for key words and associations. The best you can hope for, is that if Canon finds a spike in the internet on some word string, like: "5DIII, Weak Focus, Low Light " they might investigate it further to see if there is a trend or problem developing.

But, it is crazy to think Canon or any other manufacturer is going to waste valuable resources trolling internet forums.

1098
EOS Bodies / Re: 2013 Predictions for Canon EOS Products
« on: February 19, 2013, 11:34:36 PM »
Anyone know what Canon camera is in this below linked picture?  Never seen one with the red piece by the hotshoe.   

http://500px.com/photo/26318243

Update:Even more suspicious is the Canon logo has been removed, this has a pop-up flash and looks to be in new condition.  Can't place the lens either the more I look at this - size wise looks like the 85mm 1.2 but the bulge appears different by the camera mount from the current 85,1.2???

Lens is the 50L. Camera looks like a 7D.  If it was a new body, it would have the locking mode dial. The 7D has a separate piece of plastic where that red piece is, would be one click with the PS magic wand and a color change.

That's what it looks like to me as well. As for the red panel, could also be paint or tape. Perhaps a test body?

I don't want to falsely accuse someone, but does anyone else think there is something weird going on with this picture? The monk's left hand isn't supporting the camera and doesn't appear to be anywhere near the camera actually. I can't imagine why anyone would Photoshop the camera in and maybe it's just my imagination, but something doesn't look right.

1099
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« on: February 19, 2013, 01:07:28 PM »

cant i ask  why 6d  hasnt got the features the 7d has? if im paying more money for something that is supposedly above it in a camera range (going from 1-7, generally the cameras get better and more expensive) then surely i can ask why the 7d has so many more af points or a better body casing or a better iso performance etc etc

the people on here are seriously up themselves sometimes. im guesing that comes with the vast disposable incomes most seem to have.

You can ask anything you want.

Here are the answers: 

In the 6D you are paying for a full frame sensor, which is much more expensive to manufacture than an APS-C sensor. This has been discussed on this forum and on others many, many times. Canon even has a white paper on it.

Model numbers don't have to mean anything. There is no law that says that the order in which cameras are named makes one better than another. People get hung up on the numbers. What's the point? Who cares? Nobody even knows the model numbers except geeks anyway.

1100
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« on: February 19, 2013, 01:00:03 PM »
...Have a look at Thom Hogan's article entitled 'The Last Camera Syndrome'. We are getting there, if not there already.

Thanks for the recommendation. He's saying something that I've been seriously thinking about. Lots of people complain that recent upgrades are only marginal improvements, but that's kind of the point with technology isn't it. The first couple generations of DSLRs saw major improvements, but with each successive generation, the "real estate" available for improvement gets smaller and smaller.

I love my 7D. I believe I am a generation or two away from my "last 7D." But, I can see the end of the tunnel.

On the other hand if I were in the market for a full-frame body, the current 5DIII probably has everything I would ever want.

1101
EOS Bodies / Re: $1200 7D vs. $1800 5D II?
« on: February 14, 2013, 10:40:12 PM »
5D2 if you regularly shoot and make large prints at ISO 1600 and above. OR if you have certain Canon lenses which really work best on FF (T/S; the fast wide primes like the 35 f/1.4).

7D for everything else.

No matter how many times people insist...just insist...there's a HUGE difference when they pixel peep at 300%, they cannot pick out 16x24 or 20x30 prints at ISO 100-800.

And $600 would make a big dent for lenses, either buying one you need out right, or getting you that much closer to one that's more expensive.

+1... Paul

+2

But...if you must buy a full frame, I can't imagine why anyone would buy a 5DII when the 6D can be had for essentially the same price and you aren't buying four year old technology. In fact, right now, a new 6D with the 24-105 kit lens is actually cheaper than a new 5DII with the same lens. (B&H and Adorama).

1102
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
« on: February 14, 2013, 01:19:43 PM »
As someone who is anxiously waiting to see what they do with the 7DII, I'm now expecting two things to happen. First, whatever Canon produces will cause all sorts of trolling on the internets from the usual suspects and, Second, once the 7DII is out for a few months, real users will be impressed with what a solid performer it turns out to be.
And finally it will be considered as what it is: a decent camera. That's Rogers law: http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/rogers-law-of-new-product-introduction
That's great. Leave it to Roger to cut through all the bull and get right to the heart.

1103
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
« on: February 13, 2013, 12:44:31 PM »
I notice a pattern with the 5DIII and 6D:

Canon introduces the camera, the internets light up with complaints (too expensive, not enough improvement, features "crippled" etc. etc.)

Then the camera finally hits the users' hands and within about three months the complaints start to melt away as real users get hands on experience.

Turns out the only legitimate complaint about the 5DIII seems to have been the cost. But, the market is fixing that.

It now appears that 6D users are pleasantly surprised at how good this camera is for the price and how close it is to the 5DIII in the area that counts (the quality of the images).

As someone who is anxiously waiting to see what they do with the 7DII, I'm now expecting two things to happen. First, whatever Canon produces will cause all sorts of trolling on the internets from the usual suspects and, Second, once the 7DII is out for a few months, real users will be impressed with what a solid performer it turns out to be.

1104
EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Likely Price Trend
« on: February 07, 2013, 11:11:09 PM »
...And I would think that the 6D - similar to the 60D - won't sell that well...

Where do people come up with these statements? As of 5 p.m. today, Central Standard Time, the 60D is the #7 best seller among Digital SLRs on Amazon. And, it has been in the top 100 for 885 days.

I wish I could find the sources for that. I'll keep digging over the weekend. The Amazon stats are curious since the 60D is also listed at #17. From all I know the 60D has been a dud for Canon as far as sales are concerned. Unfortunately, they don't give the specifics by model in their financial statements from what I remember so you'd have to find industry reports that are reliable (and those usually are not free). So for now you're the only one to provide data (as funky as they appear) and I need to find something better.

Actually, as I write this, the 60D occupies the #7, #17, #21 and #31 slot on Amazon's top 100 sellers. That's because each represents a different lens/body configuration. (#7 being body only). Amazon treats each configuration as a different DSLR for their rankings.

While Amazon is only one retailer, it is the world's largest, so it's a pretty good gross indicator of where various camera body sales stand in relation to one another. Not exact, but still a reasonably representative sample.

1105
Really? The responses to this thread are childish.

I get that the thread has a bit of the "it's not my fault, it's the equipment" vibe to it. But really, I think the OP was just trying to spark some conversation. No need to be jerks about it.

I agree that the OP's perspective is grossly skewed, but I'll try to be civil about explaining the problem.

Cameras are tools. They have limitations. If they were perfect it would take all the fun and skill out of the process. It's like when people complain about dynamic range or noise or depth of field or any of the hundred other topics that litter this forum.

It's working within the limitations of the equipment and sometimes, if you are really talented, turning those limitations into assets, that makes photography a craft. It's picking the right 1/125 of a second to select out of the infinite choices available, it's selecting what to include in the frame and what to leave out, it's picking where to stand to get exactly the point of view you want, it's knowing what subject to shoot and what to concentrate on and emphasize.

I am almost never "bugged" by my equipment. On the other hand, I am thrilled and amazed when something works out right. If it were easy, we'd all be Robert Frank.

1106
EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Likely Price Trend
« on: February 07, 2013, 06:07:48 PM »
...And I would think that the 6D - similar to the 60D - won't sell that well...

Where do people come up with these statements? As of 5 p.m. today, Central Standard Time, the 60D is the #7 best seller among Digital SLRs on Amazon. And, it has been in the top 100 for 885 days.

Obviously they can't go below a certain point to not cannibalize the APS-C segment too much that is probably bringing in more revenue per unit.

Imho the competition for the 6d is not so much Canon's own aps-c because of very different usage scenarios - fast fps & better af 7d vs. slow and high iq 6d. As I suspected above the real price comparison for the 6d is Nikon's 600d - if people are out for a Canon ff they'll pay a couple of hundred €€€ more no matter what, but for buyers deciding between the brands too much of a price gap might make a difference in Nikon's favor.

Marsu42 is right. Canon isn't as concerned about "cannibalizing" their lines as they are about losing sales to competition. Of course we have no idea what the relative profit margins are on individual DSLRs, but we do know that every dollar of profit that Canon makes selling any DSLR is a dollar they do not make if the customer buys Nikon.

1107
Canon General / Re: What's your definition of "Pro"?
« on: February 07, 2013, 11:32:41 AM »
Someone who has no money ;D

Best answer yet.

1108
Canon General / Re: What's your definition of "Pro"?
« on: February 07, 2013, 10:09:59 AM »
I'm more interested in the term and theory of "craftsman" – which requires about 10,000 hours to achieve. That equates to three hours of practice a day for 10 years.

I like it because it has nothing to do with money, but everything to do with building and mastering skills.

1109
Forum rule #2: Everybody has an opinion; very few people embrace contradictions to that opinion. Some (about 1%)of the opinions are broad based and will apply to all users. Very few posters have a broad technical understanding of photography, and they don't really need to. Relying on what you "feel" from looking at your photography has proven to not be very accurate in determining photography physics, it does, however, make a good basis for your personal purchases. Your best personal purchases are rarely the best purchase for another user.

You are being too logical.

1110
Now I'm really confused. Last week there were countless threads about 1DsIII vs 5D mkIII, now people are saying the 1DsII is the ultimate camera for shooting buildings and cropping 100% for the web???

I really don't know what to buy now, I was gonna go with 2 1DX's because I hate the ugly-turny-knobby-dial™ on top of the disgusting-overpriced-toy™ of a camera (5DmkIII), and I  figured I'd get 2 cause I have 2 hands...

Perhaps I'll just switch to the Dark Side™ and get a D3200. DxO must love those cause they are paid by Sony-Sensored-Nikon™

Careful. You are going to get yourself banned and the thread erased.

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