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Lenses / Re: lenses for my 7D - please help!
« on: July 13, 2012, 12:18:49 PM »
If you are shooting mostly outdoors with the telephoto, you can save about half the cost with the f4 L instead of the f 2.8.

Although the 15-85mm is somewhat slow, I prefer its range to that of the 17-55 2.8. It just depends on which is more important: speed or range. I find the extra 2mm at the wide end very important (essentially the difference between a 24mm and a 28mm wide angle).

I have no opinion on the 50mm, but my gut tells me that it is a lot of money for not a big advantage on your budget.

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Is the future of DSLRs FF only?
« on: July 13, 2012, 12:04:01 PM »
Just my 2 cents, but Canon, well since 2004-2005 had been making a killing on EF-s lenses and the rebel and xxd line of cameras...  While the old school side of me yells, yes, make everything full frame... that's the way it always USED to be and the way it should be, the newage side of me says a 7d image full res ISO 100 has more resolution and detail and clarity than a 5d2 or 3 or likely a 1dx full frame scaled down and then upsized to the same dimensions... heck if you take the 7d image and downscale to matched the crop factor of the 5d2,3,1dx, it would likely be as good...  So while you can "ALWAYS" crop to match the scale of the crop cameras... you lose vital detail, which is one of the big draws of the D800 from what I can tell.  While we are always looking for the best of both worlds, one size fits all camera, in all reality, it isn't as cut and dry.

Careful, reasonable and logical posts like that are just asking for trouble. :)

I can't believe people continue to rehash this same old theme. I guess it's mostly the result of a summer lull in new product announcements, so there is nothing else to talk about.

For the record:

Someday, all DSLRs will be obsolete. Just probably not in my lifetime, which is all I really care about;

As long as they keep selling cameras with the legacy 35mm format, neither Nikon nor Canon are going to abandon that format;

As long as they keep selling cameras in the APS-C format, neither Nikon nor Canon are going to abandon that format;

Each format has it's advantages and corresponding customer base. It is ridiculously self-centered for the advocates of one format to suggest that their preferred format could ever meet the demands of those who prefer the other;

There is absolutely no reason why an "entry-level" legacy format camera and a professional quality APS-C format camera cannot co-exist in the marketplace. Each appeals to different customers and one will not significantly affect the target market of the other.

EOS Bodies / Re: How does Canon get input from photographers?
« on: July 12, 2012, 10:49:05 PM »
The Camera Store in Calgary has received one 1Dx so far.  I am next on the list so I'll let you know when it arrives.  For what it's worth, I am CPS and heading to London.

Love your website. Nice work. The U.S. Olympic team should have hired you for their portraits. :)

EOS Bodies / Re: How does Canon get input from photographers?
« on: July 12, 2012, 05:58:48 PM »
Most companies study their own sales figures first and foremost. They track those figures to look for trends and to see what is working and what is not. They study those figures to determine who is buying their product and build a profile of the targeted customer.

When you fill out the registration card for a camera or lens, you are helping them with their research. Years of experience gives them a good idea of what percentage of users actually register the product and the profile of those users.

Opinions are nice, but what really matters is what prompts a customer to open his or her wallet and that means looking at hard sales figures. Sales figures don't lie. Surveys do (or rather the people being surveyed do).

As for their competitors, they parse any available industry reports to see what the competitors are doing and to get clues as to what they may be doing in the future. Since these are publicly traded companies, they can check the documents that each must file with the respective regulatory agencies in the countries where the companies' stock is sold.

In the internet age, I am sure Canon and Nikon track the Amazon rankings and similar reports for competitive purposes. They have a distinct advantage over the rest of us, because they know how many units they have shipped/sold to Amazon. For example, if the D800 has an average ranking of #7 and the T3i has an average ranking of number #6, while the 5DIII has an average ranking of #8, they can pretty well pinpoint how many D800 units Amazon is selling.

They know what percentage of their total units are shipped to Amazon, so they can extrapolate what percentage of total units Nikon is shipping to Amazon.

That's just one tiny example. Bottom line though, is that the most important data they get is from sales.

With the high-end products (1Dx), Canon knows quite a bit about their customers and may have established personal relationships with many of them. As Mt. Spokane points out, some of these customers may even have a contractual relationship with Canon that allows Canon to access their opinions on the latest equipment Canon is developing.

With a new product, they may do focus groups. With a mature market, like DSLRs, they pretty much know what the customers will buy.

I give Canon credit. It appears that with the 5DIII they did some very focused research because the camera seems well targeted to wedding and event photographers. Just judging by the comments on this small forum, it seems that people who make their living shooting weddings have been very pleased with the 5DIII. A sign that they did some well-focused market research.

As a general rule, a forum like this is going to be about the last place a company looks at for research. Why? Well one of the cardinal rules of research is that you do not want the subjects to self-select. To be accurate, research of any sort requires that the subjects be selected randomly so that everyone in the target universe has a roughly equal chance of being selected. A forum audience is hopelessly skewed and is never going to be representative of the mass of users.

On the other hand, they very likely do conduct some type of "Google Alert" type monitoring to get a sense for what is making its way across the internet. For example, if they find that on 500 photography forums there is a sudden spike in the terms "Canon and White Rubber Grip" they know they have an issue that needs to be addressed. But, as far as reading individual posts on this or any other forum. Highly, highly unlikely.

EOS Bodies / Re: Mirrorless Update - APS-C? [CR2]
« on: July 12, 2012, 05:24:23 PM »
Then no one would buy it. The "classic" looks way better.

Who cares how they look?  You aren't taking pictures of them, you're taking pictures with them.

I hated using my AE-1 - rotten ergonomics.  Much better with an actual grip.

Canon users and CRs members do care:


Yes. All 12 of them.

Just one more example of why people are delusional if they think Canon should pay any attention at all to the ramblings on this forum. This is entertainment, but under no circumstances should anyone think that the opinions expressed here are typical or representative of the customer base.

EOS Bodies / Re: Mirrorless Update - APS-C? [CR2]
« on: July 12, 2012, 11:42:04 AM »
Well, that would be a pleasant surprise.

A decent rangefinder and "classic" styling would complete the package.

Interesting though that they continue to essentially recycle the 18 mp sensor.  It makes me wonder if the rumored 70D will also use the hybrid 18 mp sensor and Canon saves a new sensor for the 7DII.

EOS Bodies / Re: New Product Announcement Invites for July 23, 2012
« on: July 10, 2012, 03:13:23 PM »
I agree, at best it will probably be the same sensor as the G1X, which is essentially an APS-C sensor cut down to an unappealing aspect ratio.

The Fujis are still more appealing: cool design and nice, standard APS-C sized and proportioned sensor. I just don't want to invest in a non-compatible lens mount.

EOS Bodies / Re: 7D Pricing Issue
« on: July 10, 2012, 03:00:43 PM »
Sierra, check your messages.

EOS Bodies / Re: 3D or 2D really possible?
« on: July 10, 2012, 02:58:05 PM »
Personally, I think it makes more sense for Canon to release a 5DHD. Same body and price as the 5DIII, but swap out the sensor.

Let the customers choose which they want: High ISO and high frame rate but less resolution or high resolution with a slower frame rate and more noise at 1600 and above.

There would be minimal development costs and significant savings in production since most other components of the two cameras would be identical. Canon could simply switch the production lines between models depending on the demand at the time.  Since both models would sell for the same price and presumably the profit margin would be similar, no worries about one "cannibalizing" the other.

I don't see how a 1D body style and price competes with the D800, but a 5DHD could. Canon could up the resolution to as high as 46 mp by simply upsizing the 18 mp APS-C sensor. If they dropped it down to the same density as the 50D, it would be 38 mp, which would still be greater than the D800. Although I'm guessing that if they want to create a "D800 killer" they'd go for 40+ megapixels.

Pricewatch Deals / Re: 5D Mark II Body Price Drop at B&H
« on: July 09, 2012, 05:37:10 PM »
Via Canon Price Watch: The Canon Direct Store 20% off refurbished coupon has returned: D2B712 (until July 11th).

I just checked, the 5DII is in stock as of a few minutes ago. $1,407. No need to scrounge up a dead camera to trade in.

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Is the future of DSLRs FF only?
« on: July 09, 2012, 12:18:14 PM »
Same old opinions recycled again and again. This time a blog post from a pseudo-expert who wrote his own "white paper" to justify a conclusion he'd already come to.

No. APS-C isn't going away.

Next topic.

EOS Bodies / Re: Any actual photographers out there?
« on: July 08, 2012, 11:38:15 AM »
Love this site and the various topics that seem to get people hot under the collar. But am amazed at the rather low level of knowledge out there on the subject of photography and the poor quality of work being showcased in these forums. Is it just me or do others agree?
The OP may be a fine fellow (with only 2 posts it's hard to tell), but let's face it- this post was a troll. He makes two rather subjective, condescending statements without supporting evidence and thereby infers his superior knowledge and skill?  ::)

This place is primarily a hobbyist forum, nobody expects an Encyclopedia Photographia and we’re all here for fun and entertainment with our widely varying abilities. I wouldn’t  ask anyone to provide a pedigree UNLESS they're criticizing others and claiming expertise. So- put your money where your mouth is, dude.

Well said.

The OP claims to be a landscape, wildlife and commercial photographer who is purchasing a 1Dx. I'm wondering why he feels the need to critique the images that are shared on this site (mostly by amateurs trying to learn the basics) and why he doesn't provide his portfolio's website address to give others a frame of reference. 

Instead, he decides that for his first two posts, he will create two new threads, both somewhat inflammatory and neither one saying anything interesting or constructive.

...And yet he has taken the time to post links to a very lukewarm deal on the 7D and promoting it like it was the greatest deal ever. (I know it is just lukewarm because just this month I added a fifth 7D to my inventory for $1149 including the 28-135mm lens with a U.S. warranty, and it was shipped instantly and in my hands the next day from an authorized dealer. Other well-known price points on 7Ds have included several instances of the body only for $1,100. So for the admin to advertise the "body package deal" for $1,349 was simple commercialism just like Ken Rockwell does.)

1) Perhaps you don't know the difference between an "Ad Post" and a news post. Ad Posts are sponsored and paid for. They are ads. They are one of the things that keeps this forum in business and allows the rest of us to post and share.

2) Please enlighten us as to what dealer is selling you five 7Ds with a 28-135mm kit lens for $1,149 each, including U.S. warranty. That is a great deal. Sounds too good to be true. I'm sure everyone on this forum would like to know the details. Especially since CanonPriceWatch.com indicates the lowest price ever for that kit was $1,500.

Back to the original post for a bit.

I don't come to this forum for advice or critiques of my images. I'm here because I enjoy reading about and speculating on new camera equipment. Let's all admit it, this is primarily a gearhead forum. That doesn't mean that gear freaks can't be good photographers. (If you look up any of the member websites, you'll see a lot of very accomplished photographers.)

I'm here because there are people who care about and understand the technology of photography to a far greater degree than I ever will. One can be a good photographer without having any technical knowledge and one can be a great technician without having any photographic skill. But, generally, it helps to have a little of both.

It's a hobby and entertainment for me and frankly, I kind of enjoy the company. I have the illusion that I actually know something about some of the participants and I appreciate that. I can discuss and debate with people from across the world, which is something I can't do otherwise.

It's also fascinating to me to see the variety of careers that encompass photography. People like V-8 Beast who turned a love of cars into a career. There are a number of very good wedding photographers. There is a professional Polo photographer. There is someone who runs a rental studio for other photographers to use to take pictures of silicone enhanced models. Until ignorant idiots drove him off, we had MacFly, who was clearly one of the best celebrity photographers in Hollywood.

If I'm interested in buying a new piece of equipment I can post a question here and Neuro (who owns everything) and others will give me a broad range of advice.

If I'm curious about how sensors really work, I can ask and I'll get dozens of answers that I won't really understand, but I'll find informative anyway.

In fact, I find the OP's statement about "low level of knowledge" not only condescending, but ill-informed. For a bunch of amateurs, I'm always surprised at how much some of the contributors to this forum know about technical subjects.

In short, I really couldn't care less about the quality of the images that people post on the sharing portion of the forum. If that's why you come here, there is nothing wrong with that, but it's ridiculously unfair to evaluate the forum and its participants on that narrow basis.

Lenses / Re: A New EF 50 f/1.8 IS? [CR1]
« on: July 07, 2012, 11:09:55 AM »
Remember the vast majority of cameras Canon now sells are APS-C, so 50mm is the new 80mm and IS is definitely helpful under some situations at that focal length.

Landscape / Shamless Self-Promotion
« on: July 06, 2012, 05:53:15 PM »
Article from the Springfield (IL) Journal-Register website.


I never thought I'd consider switching brands, as I've been a Canon user for nearly 40 years.

But, if I ever switch it will not be because of bodies, but because of lens prices. I chose Canon many years ago because their prices were lower for comparable lenses. I am afraid they are losing that edge. Bodies will come and go, but lenses are the long-term and larger investment. If Canon cannot remain competitive in its lens pricing I may have to rethink my investment.

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