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EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
« on: February 13, 2013, 12:44:31 PM »
I notice a pattern with the 5DIII and 6D:

Canon introduces the camera, the internets light up with complaints (too expensive, not enough improvement, features "crippled" etc. etc.)

Then the camera finally hits the users' hands and within about three months the complaints start to melt away as real users get hands on experience.

Turns out the only legitimate complaint about the 5DIII seems to have been the cost. But, the market is fixing that.

It now appears that 6D users are pleasantly surprised at how good this camera is for the price and how close it is to the 5DIII in the area that counts (the quality of the images).

As someone who is anxiously waiting to see what they do with the 7DII, I'm now expecting two things to happen. First, whatever Canon produces will cause all sorts of trolling on the internets from the usual suspects and, Second, once the 7DII is out for a few months, real users will be impressed with what a solid performer it turns out to be.

EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Likely Price Trend
« on: February 07, 2013, 11:11:09 PM »
...And I would think that the 6D - similar to the 60D - won't sell that well...

Where do people come up with these statements? As of 5 p.m. today, Central Standard Time, the 60D is the #7 best seller among Digital SLRs on Amazon. And, it has been in the top 100 for 885 days.

I wish I could find the sources for that. I'll keep digging over the weekend. The Amazon stats are curious since the 60D is also listed at #17. From all I know the 60D has been a dud for Canon as far as sales are concerned. Unfortunately, they don't give the specifics by model in their financial statements from what I remember so you'd have to find industry reports that are reliable (and those usually are not free). So for now you're the only one to provide data (as funky as they appear) and I need to find something better.

Actually, as I write this, the 60D occupies the #7, #17, #21 and #31 slot on Amazon's top 100 sellers. That's because each represents a different lens/body configuration. (#7 being body only). Amazon treats each configuration as a different DSLR for their rankings.

While Amazon is only one retailer, it is the world's largest, so it's a pretty good gross indicator of where various camera body sales stand in relation to one another. Not exact, but still a reasonably representative sample.

Really? The responses to this thread are childish.

I get that the thread has a bit of the "it's not my fault, it's the equipment" vibe to it. But really, I think the OP was just trying to spark some conversation. No need to be jerks about it.

I agree that the OP's perspective is grossly skewed, but I'll try to be civil about explaining the problem.

Cameras are tools. They have limitations. If they were perfect it would take all the fun and skill out of the process. It's like when people complain about dynamic range or noise or depth of field or any of the hundred other topics that litter this forum.

It's working within the limitations of the equipment and sometimes, if you are really talented, turning those limitations into assets, that makes photography a craft. It's picking the right 1/125 of a second to select out of the infinite choices available, it's selecting what to include in the frame and what to leave out, it's picking where to stand to get exactly the point of view you want, it's knowing what subject to shoot and what to concentrate on and emphasize.

I am almost never "bugged" by my equipment. On the other hand, I am thrilled and amazed when something works out right. If it were easy, we'd all be Robert Frank.

EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Likely Price Trend
« on: February 07, 2013, 06:07:48 PM »
...And I would think that the 6D - similar to the 60D - won't sell that well...

Where do people come up with these statements? As of 5 p.m. today, Central Standard Time, the 60D is the #7 best seller among Digital SLRs on Amazon. And, it has been in the top 100 for 885 days.

Obviously they can't go below a certain point to not cannibalize the APS-C segment too much that is probably bringing in more revenue per unit.

Imho the competition for the 6d is not so much Canon's own aps-c because of very different usage scenarios - fast fps & better af 7d vs. slow and high iq 6d. As I suspected above the real price comparison for the 6d is Nikon's 600d - if people are out for a Canon ff they'll pay a couple of hundred €€€ more no matter what, but for buyers deciding between the brands too much of a price gap might make a difference in Nikon's favor.

Marsu42 is right. Canon isn't as concerned about "cannibalizing" their lines as they are about losing sales to competition. Of course we have no idea what the relative profit margins are on individual DSLRs, but we do know that every dollar of profit that Canon makes selling any DSLR is a dollar they do not make if the customer buys Nikon.

Canon General / Re: What's your definition of "Pro"?
« on: February 07, 2013, 11:32:41 AM »
Someone who has no money ;D

Best answer yet.

Canon General / Re: What's your definition of "Pro"?
« on: February 07, 2013, 10:09:59 AM »
I'm more interested in the term and theory of "craftsman" – which requires about 10,000 hours to achieve. That equates to three hours of practice a day for 10 years.

I like it because it has nothing to do with money, but everything to do with building and mastering skills.

Forum rule #2: Everybody has an opinion; very few people embrace contradictions to that opinion. Some (about 1%)of the opinions are broad based and will apply to all users. Very few posters have a broad technical understanding of photography, and they don't really need to. Relying on what you "feel" from looking at your photography has proven to not be very accurate in determining photography physics, it does, however, make a good basis for your personal purchases. Your best personal purchases are rarely the best purchase for another user.

You are being too logical.

Now I'm really confused. Last week there were countless threads about 1DsIII vs 5D mkIII, now people are saying the 1DsII is the ultimate camera for shooting buildings and cropping 100% for the web???

I really don't know what to buy now, I was gonna go with 2 1DX's because I hate the ugly-turny-knobby-dial™ on top of the disgusting-overpriced-toy™ of a camera (5DmkIII), and I  figured I'd get 2 cause I have 2 hands...

Perhaps I'll just switch to the Dark Side™ and get a D3200. DxO must love those cause they are paid by Sony-Sensored-Nikon™

Careful. You are going to get yourself banned and the thread erased.

Lighting / Re: An open letter to Canon regarding the Canon RT system
« on: February 05, 2013, 08:02:40 PM »
A good point for a pressing open letter would be to ask Canon how they can consider the 600rt flashes a *system* with just two parts available...no receivers for legacy speedlites or studio flashes...

I've been beat up by some on this forum for raising this in the past, but I still feel strongly about it. Canon released only half a product with its radio transmitter. Who releases a transmitter with no receiver? By doing so, Canon undercut it's loyal customers and sent them to competitors. I would have (reluctantly) paid a premium for a Canon-branded receiver to use with 580EXII and the ST-E3-RT along with the 600-RT.

Instead, they've driven me to the Yongnuo 622C (which is very good) and to the used market for future purchases of 580EXIIs. It was a shortsighted strategy on Canon's part.

Site Information / Moderators: You are Too Sensitive
« on: February 02, 2013, 10:56:37 PM »
Okay, I see the "purple-faced guy" thread has been deleted.

Honestly, once again this is an example of the moderators having much too thin of skin on this forum. Understand I appreciate the work that moderators do, but this has been an ongoing problem. Threads and comments are allowed to go on for pages and pages and then suddenly, someone decides they don't like the way it ends up, so it gets deleted.

For the record, the OP was an idiot, we all know that. He was taking some sort of perverse jollies out of playing a trolling game that only made him look like a fool. And, yes, his final post should have been deleted for his racist language (that is a legitimate reason to delete any post, although it seems to get applied arbitrarily at times).

But, we are all big boys and girls and we participate in these threads willingly. After two days of discussion, it's kind of silly and, frankly, plays right into the hand of the OP when the entire thread is deleted.

I'm sure I will get attacked for saying this, but I have been participating in this forum for years and I've found this to be annoying and counterproductive. The problem is that it can never be applied uniformly or fairly. Some frequent posters are allowed great latitude to be sarcastic and insulting at times, but others are not.

Just my opinion.

Just a quick thought regarding the 70D and 7DII.

Canon has three full frame cameras with three different full frame sensors in them. I wonder why we (myself included) think that the 7DII, 70D and top of the line rebels should share the same sensor, just because the previous generation did?

Nikon rumors is reporting that the D7000 replacement is coming before April. If true, that pretty much guarantees that the 70D will be released soon as well. If the D7000 replacement does have a 24mp sensor topping out at ISO 6400 as reported, I would expect a similar sensor from Canon (22-24 mp).

Then, I wouldn't be surprised to see a D300s and 7DII replacement show up in the summer, with the 7D having a completely different sensor. Given Canon's recent pattern with full frame, maybe a 20 mp sensor with higher ISO performance.

Canon has made themselves the king of low-light sensors. They've listened to their customers who say they will gladly trade a few less megapixels for clean high ISO performance. I think they may realize that is is a trade the 7D users would also gladly make.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon Confirms 70D; Future of Semi-Pro DSLR is FF
« on: February 01, 2013, 01:49:47 PM »
I was really surprised by the amount of ringside press using 7Ds at the London Olympics.

A lot of posters on CR give the impression that they think if you're a pro you can afford anything camera wise. That may be true if the photog's employers supply the equipment, but many are not in that boat.

Canon marketing research will know exactly how the land lies regarding current and near future demand for a fast, professional APS. If there's a demand they'll supply it.

Yes, this is a point that few people understand. It's been many, many years since I was a newspaper photographer, but some things have either not changed, or changed for the worse.

Most photojournalists have to supply their own equipment. Even if their employer has some equipment available, it is often just the bare minimum and not up to date. These days, there are fewer and fewer media outlets (hardly any independent papers today) sharing fewer and fewer resources. Staff photographers are among the first jobs that get cut as there are always freelancers out there willing to work for less.

Freelancers, of course, have to supply their own equipment and that often means buying the least that will do the job.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon Confirms 70D; Future of Semi-Pro DSLR is FF
« on: February 01, 2013, 12:18:52 PM »
Paul (PJ1974), Honsten and Neuro,

I'm with you guys. This is a very brief and vague interview. I took the references to APS-C as meaning "our crystal ball is in the shop. We are watching the market and it may be that some day, the niche now filled by semi-pro APS-C might be replaced by full-frame, but we don't know that yet."

On the other hand, I want to rant about about the photo news media. I don't understand why industry writers have to be such sycophants. They never ask the tough questions of these executives, but instead behave like a bunch of lap dogs letting these executives sail through the interviews with softball questions.

Almost anyone who comments on this forum could have asked better questions:

The street price of the 5DIII has dropped to below $3,000 since introduction. Was your market research wrong when you originally priced the 5DIII, did you underestimate the competition, or was this a conscious strategy to maximize return on early adopters?

Canon seems to be pricing its latest lenses at stratospheric levels. What's your target market for these lenses?

Your APS-C sensor is now more than three years old. Many are questioning whether or not Canon has the engineering bench strength to compete with other manufacturers and innovate in sensor development. What's your response?

The 6D has been criticized as being under-spec'd in comparison to Nikon's D600. Are you concerned about that?

The list could go on and on, but instead, we get a tiny little interview completely dictated by the corporate messengers.

I've been one that thinks the P&S market is dying. Not ready to change that opinion, but it is noteworthy that P&S still accounts for about 80% of all cameras sold.

I would have sworn that the number had to more than 80 percent P&S....Most people I see have P&S cameras and a few people I know who had low end DSLR's have gone to superzoom P&S's, the ones that sort of look like a DSLR and have 25, 30, or more times zoom range.

Don't confuse new sales with ownership. That just means 80% of the cameras sold are P&S. The percentage of people who actually own a P&S could be greater (or less). Basically depends on the replacement rate, which I suspect for many P&S owners is pretty low.

You might as well surrender Neuro, the confirmation bias overcomes all facts and logic.

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