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Messages - unfocused

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EOS Bodies / Re: 6D or 5D Mk II
« on: September 17, 2012, 08:04:51 PM »
Funkboy and Digital Divide: You are exactly right (despite the sarcasm of others).

This is the 5DII updated with the current processor (so they can phase out the old processors) and using updated manufacturing processes. I suspect there is also some savings on the sensor as well as I cannot imagine that sensor manufacturing has not become more efficient in the past four years. On almost all features it improves on the 5DII, yet is selling for significantly less at introduction.

A lot of the negative reaction here is due to sticker shock over the cost of the 5DIII. It's not unlike what happened when the 60D came out and 40D users were disappointed that the price of admittance into the top level of APS-C sensor cameras had become the 7D.

EOS Bodies / Re: Who really is the target demographic for the 6D?
« on: September 17, 2012, 07:50:04 PM »
I'm amused by people who say Canon didn't listen to their customers because it is not the camera they wanted. The problem is that Canon did listen to their customers and you just weren't typical of their customers.

Face it, Canon did extensive market research to determine what features people wanted and what features would sell more cameras and what features wouldn't. If there is a feature you wanted that is missing, it's not because Canon wasn't listening to customers, it is because your wants are not shared by others.

I think the OP probably had a lot of things right. I would add that I can see it as an appealing second body for many users. At this point, I'm interested in a second body. When the 7DII comes out, I'll compare it to the 6D and decide which to go for. If the 7D is only a marginal upgrade, I may consider this. If the 7D improves on the things I want it to improve on, I'll go that route.

The autofocus is not a major concern of mine, because the 7D is better suited for subjects where I need good autofocus. If I have the time to compose a shot carefully, a single autofocus point is sufficient. With the 6D's slow frame rate and 60% less focal length, I wouldn't be using it for action shots anyway.

It will be an individual decision for every customer, but the beauty of modern research methods is they can take thousands of those individual opinions, aggregate them and then design a product that meets enough needs to sell.

It's funny, everyone says they want to be an individual, but if you tell someone that no one else shares their taste, they feel left out.

EOS Bodies / Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« on: September 17, 2012, 07:20:50 PM »

My list is short: Less noise at ISO 1600-6400; an even better autofocus; a little more weatherproofing; CF Card slot (don't care if they also include an SD, but I wants my CF); and that ability to control the camera through your smartphone using WiFi.

What makes your short list?

I would buy if they only addressed the noise at 1600-6400, even if that was the only change.  SOLD. DONE.  HAPPY.  If 3200 or 6400 could look like 400 looks today on my T3i, say.  What's 3 or 4 stops of improvement between friends, hmm?

Hah! Well honestly, ISO 800 isn't terrible. If 3200 looked like 800 that would be great in my book and I would probably be content with just one to 1 1/2 stops (but I don't want Canon to know that's all they have to do.)

EOS Bodies / Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« on: September 17, 2012, 04:48:27 PM »
I'm sure we will be well into 2013 before we see a 7DII. That shouldn't stop anyone from speculating.

I wouldn't be surprised if it comes one year after the 5DIII, just as the 7D came a year after the 5DII. But, from the specs of the 6D, I just don't see how there will not be a 7DII. There are too many people who won't consider the 6D because of the compromises it offers and don't want to invest in a 5DIII, even at $2,700.

As I've said before, some people buy the biggest car they can find, even if it is underpowered and stripped down. Others go for the compact car with all the extras. Two different markets and two different products. Neither would be satisfied with the other choice, even if the prices are the same.

EOS Bodies / Re: EOS xD line Future...
« on: September 17, 2012, 04:15:46 PM »
Make sense, yes or no?

EOS 1D X - Flagship (moderate MP, high FPS, best build, AF and metering)

EOS 3D - Pro FF (high MP, low FPS)

EOS 5D Mark III - Pro FF (moderate MP, moderate FPS, Pro AF and build)

EOS 6D - Semi Pro FF (Smaller brother to 5D series)

EOS 7D Mark II - Pro APS-C (High FPS and large buffer, Pro AF and build)

EOS 8D - The new xxD line. Semi Pro APS-C (Smaller brother to 7D series)

Pretty close to the way I see it. I would guess the "8D" would actually remain as the 70D. They can always call the next generation 70D II, just as they do with the other models. In fact, if you want to split hairs, it would make sense to call the next model a 60D II. That way it would be clear that the 6D and 60D are essentially the same thing, except for the sensor.

I still think the "3D" could just as easily be a 5D HD (High Definition). Same body, same price, different sensor. Again, just quibbling about names, not anything of any importance.

The APS-H boat was sunk last year. I think Canon is only too happy to be rid of that sensor and I don't see it coming back. Sorry.

The 5D Mark III is MMAP priced...

Um, for the simple german people like me ... what is mmap? Does it apply in europe, too? Will it change anytime soon, whatever it is :-o ?

I think it means Manufacturer's Minimum Advertised Price. It means that dealers cannot advertise a price below a minimum set by the manufacturer. It can be sold below that price, but can't be advertised below it. So, that is why sometimes you see a button that says "add to cart for final price." Or, there will be a link on Canon Rumors, Photo Rumors or Canon Price Watch that if you click on it you get sent to a page with a lower price than on Adorama's or B&H's  regular site; and why they may sell something on eBay at a lower price than advertised on their website.

It is also why, during rebates, the prices get jacked up. In order to participate in the rebate, the retailer has to honor the minimum advertised price, even if they were selling it for less than that a week before.

My understanding. Someone with more knowledge can correct me if I'm wrong.

EOS Bodies / Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« on: September 17, 2012, 03:50:24 PM »
Tongue in cheek, yes...but now that we've dispensed with the entry-level full frame camera, how about something I care about – the 7DII.

Anyone looking at the features of the 6D can see it pretty much guarantees that Canon has no intention of dropping the 7D. So, trying to be realistic here: what features do you expect/hope to see in the 7D?

My list is short: Less noise at ISO 1600-6400; an even better autofocus; a little more weatherproofing; CF Card slot (don't care if they also include an SD, but I wants my CF); and that ability to control the camera through your smartphone using WiFi.

Give me that, and I'll call it good. Bonus points for a touchscreen interface (know this isn't popular with the Luddites, but I find the current menu/click wheel system painfully slow and not intuitive. I presume Canon would keep the click wheels, but give users the option to control the setting from the touch screen as well. It's no longer new technology – we are on the iPhone 5 for God's sake)

Sadly, I expect the infrared pop up flash controller to disappear as Canon tries to move everyone to the next generation of Speedlites.

They can leave the swivel-screen and the new on-sensor autofocus to the 70D as far as I'm concerned, but I'm not going to pitch a fit if one or both show up.

What makes your short list?

EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Review
« on: September 17, 2012, 03:24:08 PM »
Actually, all the 6D sample shots are from the 5D3 review. Lame.


In a perverse sort of way, this makes me feel better. I couldn't imagine how any reviewer would have gotten a copy of the 6D back in March.

I don't get upset about Ken. He's a businessman and he's figured out his way of making the internet work for him. Nothing wrong with that. Too bad somebody couldn't show him how to hit the "save draft" button instead of the "post" button though. :)

EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Review
« on: September 17, 2012, 01:26:37 PM »
Wow. If this is to be believed, he has had the camera since March. Pretty amazing.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 6D Official Specs
« on: September 16, 2012, 11:46:01 PM »
Well... I think this camera sounds fine!  It isn't too spiffy, and it isn't a PoS either.  Now all we have to do is wait for the "shake down" to see what manufacturing problems crop up.  :(

This is on my short list anyway...  So many choices, so little money.

Exactly. People need to see this for what it is. And what it is is a modest update and upgrade from the 5DII introduced at several hundred dollars below what the 5DII sold for as recently as a year ago.

Canon also left plenty of room for a 7DII, so this pretty much confirms to me we'll see a spiffy 7DII in 2013. Big decision for me will be which to choose. Just depends on how much they improve the 7DII sensor and how the 6D sensor and autofocus perform.

Frankly Canon has me exactly where they want me. 7D owner looking for a second body: do I go with the 6D or the 7DII. They figure I'll choose one within the next year and then add the other in another year. They are probably right. Damn them.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 6D Specs Leaked?
« on: September 16, 2012, 06:07:27 PM »
Why should a Pro wedding photographer go for a low end FF? That's probably not the target market. Wedding photogs make a lot of moolah so they should not be skimping on the investment ;)

Wow! I'd like to hear from some wedding photographers on this. Every time I do the math, I never see how a typical wedding photographer can make "a lot of moolah."

EOS Bodies / Re: Adorama is selling 5d3 for $2745 on eBay now
« on: September 16, 2012, 05:54:28 PM »

Honestly this has more to do with the Jewish holiday. Adorama probably doesn't sell much between now and Tuesday night anyways they boost sales with this deal and don't offend canon because it's sold through their eBay store.
Since Adorama does not close over the Jewish holidays, how do you figure they make any difference??  B&H closes, but not Adorama.

From the Adorama website:
Holiday Closing Schedule

The Adorama Retail Store will be closed during the following days

Rosh Hashanah Holiday we will close on Sunday, September 16, 2012 at 3:00pm and will reopen on Wednesday September 19, at 9:00 am
Yom Kippur Holiday we will close on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 at 1:00pm and will reopen on Thursday September 27, at 9:00 am
Sukkoth Holiday we will close on Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 3:00pm and will reopen on Wednesday October 10, at 9:00 am

We sincerely appreciate your understanding and thank you for your business.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Pro Landscape Photography
« on: September 16, 2012, 12:10:10 PM »
Hi !  ;)

I'm a professional and have been for twenty years. My website is here so you can see what I'm talking about of luck and just enjoy taking great pics ... :D

Whenever I get fed up with this site, someone like Rod takes the time to post a well-thought-out and constructive reply. Your experience and perspective are reflective of much of what I experienced as a photojournalist thirty-some years ago. Professional photography is a tough way to earn a living, no matter which way you slice it. Talent is important, but talent alone won't cut it.

I have a filmmaker friend who, when someone asks him about going into filmmaking, his standard response is: do yourself a favor and study accounting instead.

I was fortunate, because I had other skills that allowed me to earn a decent living and support my family. Now, as I near retirement age, I can spend more time concentrating on photography for the love of the craft without having to worry about how to make it pay.

EOS Bodies / Re: Adorama is selling 5d3 for $2745 on eBay now
« on: September 16, 2012, 11:59:30 AM »
I probably shouldn't, but I can't resist commenting.

With a single retailer offer like this, don't presume it indicates anything about Canon, the 5DIII or the pace of sales. It might, but there are just too many variables to know.

Canon enforces a "lowest advertised price" restriction that dealers must adhere to. There are ways around that. eBay may be one of those ways. Another is to offer special deals though internet sites like this. I was able to get the 70-300 L in the spring at a deep discount from Adorama through a one-day link that this website had posted.

Adorama seems to be trying more of these promotions. If you go to Canon Price Watch you'll see that they are offering occasional deals through that site. I don't know what their strategy is, but whatever it is, I like it. We as consumers benefit.

I do have a hard time believing Adorama would be selling anything at a loss. Someone mentioned Canon's fiscal year. If it had anything to do with Canon, we would see other major retailers offering the same pricing. It may have more to do with Adorama's fiscal year or inventory practices. It could be possible that Adorama calculated their costs and figured that earning $50 or so profit on the units, along with some tax savings by reducing inventory, made it worthwhile. I don't know.

Or, maybe their inventory computers just decided they were getting too much stock and it wasn't moving fast enough so they decided to opt for a smaller profit and clear room for the 6D before Christmas.

This sale occurred just before Rosh Hashanah. I don't know if there is any connection there either.  Adorama is closed from Sunday afternoon until Wednesday morning. Don't know if their fiscal year coincides with the religious calendar.

My takeaway:
  • It is crazy to presume that a single sale by a single retailer is a clear indicator of anything at all about the 5DIII.
  • Presuming that Adorama still made a small profit on these units, it seem like Canon is offering a pretty generous margin for its retailers
  • Everyone talks about Canon being greedy but if they are really giving retailers a nearly $800 margin on the 5DIII, it's not greed, but something else. They may be trying to protect and preserve their worldwide dealer network during tough economic times. It certainly could be a smart business move as well: give retailers a bigger profit margin than the competitors and they have a bigger incentive to promote your product.

I don't know the answers, but one thing is sure: it's great for consumers.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon is out foxed.
« on: September 15, 2012, 11:19:08 AM »
Nikon and Sony have completely out foxed Canon.

Totally irrelevant. What matters is if they out sell Canon.  For the past several years, they have demonstrated a complete lack of ability to do so.  Keep in mind, superior technical specs aren't the whole story - if they were, Betamax would have beaten VHS.

A lone voice of reason.

I can't believe this thread: 21 pages filled with enough whines for several vineyards. And, all over rumored specifications.

For years I've had to endure full frame fetishists telling 7D owners how inferior APS-C sensors are and how they are so discerning that they just can't be satisfied with anything less than full frame and we must all be blind or incompetent not to see any difference.

Now, Canon may be introducing a low-cost full frame model and suddenly it's all about the features. No one has seen a single sample image of what the camera can produce but that doesn't matter, because obviously no one can produce decent pictures without 18 autofocus points and 8 frames per second.

Get a grip. The rumored specs reveal a camera that could be a significant improvement over the 5DII at hundreds of dollars less than what the 5DII sold for for years.

Reminds me of the whining that occurred when the 60D was announced. Some people just couldn't understand how Canon didn't offer all the same features as the 7D but at $400 less. If you want a 5DIII buy a 5DIII. If you can't afford it...well I can't afford a lot of things either.

I love this camera and the specs. It is one more choice that I, as a consumer have. Canon's decision to offer this camera doesn't take away anything from me.  It adds to my choices. And, because it adds to Canon's bottom line, that means even more choices for me in the future.

Go Canon!

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