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Messages - unfocused

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1456
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II Speculation [CR1]
« on: May 23, 2012, 10:23:22 PM »
Quote
I don't think Pentax' sealing is covered by warranty:

Warranty probably won't matter much. Here in the U.S. there will be trial lawyers falling all over themselves to file a class action suit if Pentax doesn't stand behind their claims. The picture of the camera with water splashing all over it...the statements about beaches (sand being probably a far bigger risk than water). Those would be hard to overcome.

Of course, the attorney's will settle. They'll get several million for their efforts and the customers will get a certificate for 5% off their next Pentax. Greetings from the Land of Lawsuits.

1457
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II Speculation [CR1]
« on: May 23, 2012, 02:22:31 PM »
Take a look at how Pentax is marketing their new K-30. http://www.pentaximaging.com/dslr/K-30_Black#!product-support

There are a several of interesting points here.

Oftentimes on this forum, I read comments that imply that the only thing average consumers care about is more and more megapixels. That other features don't matter. But, really, people care about megapixels because that is what manufacturers told us to care about during the early years of DSLRs. It made sense at the time because the technology was developing rapidly and the sensor advancements from generation to generation were significant.

Now as the technology matures and resolution becomes less important, manufacturers are looking at other features to differentiate themselves.

This is an interesting choice on the part of Pentax.

Of course, it's also interesting because of  the bar it will be setting for Canon, Nikon, Sony and Fuji. The K-30 competes against the 60D, so will Canon respond with some weathersealing on the 70D? At a minimum, the 7DII will need some serious weathersealing to justify the price differential.

(As an aside – when I saw the ad, I wondered what their legal department thought. The ad visual certainly implies that the camera is virtually waterproof and the copy even talks about sand and beaches. It's either incredibly well sealed, they have a generous repair policy or they are prepared for a heck of a class action suit. )

I've never thought that much about weathersealing. But as with any successful ad campaign, this one certainly caught my attention and got me thinking about the advantages of full weather sealing. Now I want it in the 7DII and I didn't even know I did. Good marketing.

The point here is not to turn this into a discussion of the pros and cons of weathersealing, or to do a big comparison between the various levels of the current 7D, 5D and 1D, but to point out that the conventional wisdom that drives many of the discussions on this forum can be quickly upended by what happens in the marketplace.

61 point autofocus...gotta have it; 256,000 ISO...gotta have it; more dynamic range...gotta have it; etc. etc. Marketing raises the expectations. Competition raises the bar. Consumers get a better product. Gotta love capitalism.

1458
Lenses / Re: Canon EF 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Coming [CR3]
« on: May 21, 2012, 09:04:29 PM »
Odd size. Odd price. Odd speed. I don't see much demand for a pancake 40mm f2.8 on a DSLR, when you can get a "pancake" 50mm f1.8 for one third the price.

1459
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II Speculation [CR1]
« on: May 21, 2012, 08:55:13 PM »
7Dii is sounding like its going to be a bit of a beast

i would dearly love it to be aps-h but i know thats dreaming deeep down

oh and i hope everyone starts preparing themselves for it being $2500+
so we get less "its too expensive crybaby threads like the 5Dmk3"
people need to realise that there isn't a whole lot an internet forum can do to influence canon's
price points when the underlying demand actually provides support for their chosen price point
even if it is more than people would like to pay.

obviously we would all like them to just give them to use for being such loyal customers  ::)
but the reality is the price is the price if you want it you have to pay it or dont get the product

I think you are being pessimistic about the pricing. Unlike the 5DIII which was targeted to a professional base with features that they pretty much had to have (better autofocus, better low light performance) to compete in a very competitive industry (wedding and event photography), the 7DII remains a "prosumer" camera. It may end up being a very useable tool for professionals (sports/wildlife shooters) but at heart I expect it to remain targeted to non-professionals with disposable income. (Remember too that the sports/wildlife professional base is a tiny fraction compared to wedding and event photographers.)

Positioned as it is, the 7DII cannot succeed if it's price point is $500 above the comparable Nikon D300s successor.

Still, despite my views, I recognize that I could be wrong. If I am, I do make this promise: "I will not whine, moan or threaten on any internet forum to switch brands if the price of the 7DII is more than I want to spend."

I do, however, reserve the right to complain a bit if they "cheap it down" to a 60D level or stick a high megapixel but inferior sensor in the thing.

1460
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II Speculation [CR1]
« on: May 21, 2012, 02:07:04 PM »
I'm trying to keep focused on the CR1 rating, but...I want to believe...I want to believe.

I don't see Canon recycling the current sensor. So, an 18mp sensor (apprx) is good news since that makes it likely Canon is focusing on sensor improvements, rather than more megapixels. Perhaps 70D and 7DII will share the same sensor and differentiate on other features (as they do currently). I'm okay with that.

70D with a new sensor, almost all the features of the current 7D, except in a 60D body. (I wouldn't be surprised if they restored micro focus adjustment, since they took some grief over that).

7DII with a new sensor, new autofocus and probably slightly higher frame rate and bigger buffer than current 7D. Same basic body, but maybe a little more weather sealing. Canon can do that, stick a fork in it, call it done and I'll be happy.

1461
EOS Bodies / Re: Mirrorless Vs Regular DSLR -- Your thoughts???
« on: May 18, 2012, 02:50:52 PM »
The closest I've seen to what I want is the Fuji X10.

The Canon GX is an option, but honestly, it's pretty ugly and the advantages of the larger sensor are lost with the slow lens. Plus, I really hate the goofy aspect ratio they gave it. They should have shaved the sensor down to match the aspect ratio of traditional 35mm and given it a slightly faster lens.

Reviews of both cameras have been critical of their viewfinders and I won't buy a camera without a usable viewfinder.  So, as a consequence, I'm still waiting.

I'm both old and old school, so my ideal would be a classic rangefinder clone with a decent zoom lens. I'm not particularly interested in interchangeable lenses, just give me something that's reasonably fast and goes from 28-135mm equivalent. When I want to change lenses, I'll use my DSLR. It doesn't even have to be APS-C size, just big enough to produce good quality images up to 8x10 or 11x14 at ISO 400.

At this point, I've resigned myself to waiting a few more years to see if Fuji can improve their models. I'd rather buy Canon but I'm not optimistic they'll have something I'm interested in.


1462
Third Party Manufacturers / New Sony Doubles Focal Lengths
« on: May 18, 2012, 12:04:22 PM »
This is interesting (From Sony Press Release)

Quote
By Pixel Super Resolution Technology is also used for the “Clear Image Zoom” feature, which digitally doubles the effective magnification of any lens attached to the camera.

Reads as though it is an in-camera up-scaling of images. Apparently interpolates added pixels, to retain the same megapixels after cropping, similar to Photoshop or other software programs.

If (and it's a big "If") it works decently, it could be very interesting. Imagine a 400mm lens on a crop having an effective focal length of 1200mm?

Wave of the future?

1463
EOS Bodies / Re: Loss in Resale Value of 5D Mk3
« on: May 17, 2012, 02:57:44 PM »
Quote
burning themselves in effigy in front Canon's regional headquarters

Well...if I were to burn myself, I'd rather do it in effigy. Hurts less. :)

1464
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]
« on: May 17, 2012, 01:36:08 PM »
My takeaway: Nothing in this announcement to indicate Canon is diverging from their traditional development path. Add a few bells and whistles to the newest Rebel model to be able to call it new and attract buyers who want the latest version. Save the major changes for the 7DII and then let selected improvements trickle down for another 2-3 years.

so out with the swivel LCD and in with the touch screen?...

Are the two incompatible? Why does touch screen mean no swivel LCD?

I'll be interested to see how the touch screen works. My biggest concern will be accidentally changing settings, but the click wheel navigation system is also prone to the same problem. After years of iPhones and tablets, I'm hoping the technology is mature enough to work intuitively on a camera. I wonder if they will let it trickle up to the 7DII and 5DIV.

Yay! No More Megapixels ;D

Sony is keeping a 16 mp sensor in their new Nex-F3 and A37. Perhaps both have determined that the marketing benefit of ever-higher megapixels has reached the point of diminishing returns.

1465
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
« on: May 16, 2012, 10:20:41 PM »
Almost everyone seems focused on the mirrorless. I'm anxious to see what this new Rebel is like. Hoping it will provide some clues as to the direction Canon will take with the 7DII. (At least I'll enjoy reading the tea leaves like everyone else.)

1466
EOS Bodies / Re: Loss in Resale Value of 5D Mk3
« on: May 16, 2012, 10:17:13 PM »
Quote
But we always want to know that what we buy has reasonable value in resale.

I don't. At least not with most purchases. I've never bought a computer that had any resale value except as a doorstop. Never bought a television that had any resale value (usually dead by the time I replace it). My clothes certainly don't have any resale value...furniture...lawnmower...appliances. Nope. Nope. Nope.

Come to think of it, almost everything I buy has no resale value once I've gotten my use out of it.

Quote
a car or other durable goods.

Cars? Try selling a brand new car once you've driven it off the dealers' lot.

If you're buying a camera for it's resale value, you're buying it for the wrong reason.

+100

1467
You are missing the most important and obvious option:

High-quality video features drive up consumer demand, resulting in more sales and reducing the per unit price to still photographers.

Unfocused, I'm basically on your side, and I did not miss that argument: I was just re-iterating my understanding of the viewpoints of the "yes" camp.  One one hand, more sales drive down per-unit cost by spreading fixed costs across a larger number of units.  On the other hand, end-user price *could* hypothetically go up if demand exceeds supply, resulting in higher per-unit profit.  E.g. iPads.  Does it actually do this?  I don't know, and I doubt we have access to data to prove one way or another.  We only know that per-unit production cost goes down with increased sales.

My main argument against the "yes it does" camp is that there is no reason to believe that video adds significantly to the R&D and manufacturing costs.  Any price increase would be due to market forces, and you can't expect any company to forgo extra profit to accommodate a minority of purists.

Personally, I believe the 5D3 was designed as a wedding/event camera, and it hits that spot pretty nicely. 

In the end, we just don't know the answer, so it's not worth fretting over.

Oh yeah, I realize that you get it. Wasn't trying to imply otherwise. And, like you, I agree the "cost" of video  isn't worth bothering with. I just have a hard time getting past my compulsion to correct things when I see people getting something wrong on the internet. :)

And yes, I absolutely agree with you that the 5DIII was designed with a very specific market in mind and seems to be succeeding quite nicely with that market.

1468
This poll is fundamentally flawed because the correct answer is not included:

Would you pay more (30-50%) for a stills-only camera?

Trying to be patient here. I've explained this in another thread. Video makes cameras cheaper, not more expensive.

I know that's hard for some people to wrap their head around, but so long as the marginal cost of adding video is less than the increased profits from added sales due to video, the price is less for a video-enabled camera than for one that is not video-enabled.

If you want to debate whether or not video optimization introduces compromises to still image quality, that's a different issue. But, as far as cost goes, you are not "paying" anything for video.

1469
Apparently we've got three lines of reasoning:

1. Basic video features increase the cost to produce the camera enough to affect end-user price.  This one is likely false, but ultimately unknowable.  (marginal cost to add basic video is low, and overall sales would suffer without video)

2. High-quality video features alter design decisions, resulting in compromise of still features.  Maybe, but it's Canon's game and they can do what they want.  The market will sort this out.

3. High-quality video features drive up consumer demand, resulting in higher end-user prices.  If true, this is music to Canon's ears, and this would be a great business decision.  Like it or hate it, we're stuck with it.

For high-end bodies (5 and up) it's possible that high-quality video increases price through consumer demand.  If so, there's nothing to be done but vote with your wallet.

For consumer-level bodies (7D, XXd and below) video is a requirement of this market segment, but the quality is not high enough to pull in serious video enthusiasts, so body price is not affected.

These are just opinions and speculations, I have no hard data.

You are missing the most important and obvious option:

High-quality video features drive up consumer demand, resulting in more sales and reducing the per unit price to still photographers.


1470
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5D3 vs D800 sales numbers
« on: May 14, 2012, 01:01:57 PM »
...I doubt canon really cares about which camera, the 5d3 or D800 sales more...  Most companies such as this properly has a sale projection target...  If it passes that target, in their eyes, it's a success. If it doesn't, it fails.  If it's close enough to the mark, it's on track.  Where exactly nikons sales matters to their projection is irrelevant...

Exactly. This is not a war, a race or a political campaign. There is no end point where a winner gets declared. In fact, it's even more complicated because there isn't even a single product. For all we know, Canon could sell half as many 5DIIIs as Nikon sells D800s and it could still be a a tremendous success if that was what their business plan calls for.

The horse race is entertainment for brand partisans and I enjoy it as much as anyone, but I'm under no illusions that comparative sales figures offer any sort of definitive evidence of the success of a particular product in their lineup, much less of any company overall.

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