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EOS Bodies / Re: I still don't get the crop debate
« on: April 14, 2012, 10:18:31 PM »
Any "conflict," "problem," "dilemma" exists only in the overactive imaginations of persons posting on this site.

I just did a quick check of the Amazon best sellers. In one form or another (with lens, without lens, with other gizmos, etc) the 60D is listed in six slots in the top 100 best sellers for DSLRs. The 7D in various forms has four slots in the top 100. The 7D has been in the top 100 for 952 days, the 60D for 587 days. Both roughly for the entire time they have been available.

Canon knows what they are doing. They have slotted these models precisely where they wanted them to be and it has been very successful. Why would they screw with that success?

There will be a 7DII that fits in the top of the line of the APS-C bodies and about 9 months after the 7DII there will most likely be a 70D that slots just above the Rebels. It is what Canon does and it's what Nikon does with its APS-C models as well. They do it because it's smart business and its working.

The only thing that doesn't make sense is the fixation some people have with thinking they know more about marketing than Canon does.

Case closed. Move on people.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III Product Advisory
« on: April 13, 2012, 04:16:26 PM »
How is this much different from the longstanding recommendation from Canon to cover the viewfinder when shooting long exposures under low light?

Same idea right? Ambient light (in this case from the LCD panel) can throw the exposure off. Maybe Canon should include a big piece of black gaffer's tape to cover the LCD with every camera?

Is this a problem because the new sensor has such incredible low-light sensitivity?

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« on: April 13, 2012, 04:05:19 PM »
I'm curious why people imply that the market didn't like the APS-H sensor.

You could be right there. I don't have access to their sales figures, and I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that it was not a big seller with Canon. Also, the lack of any comparable product from Nikon led me to believe that Nikon didn't feel the market justified the investment.

And, the fact that Canon never produced any wide angle lenses targeted to the APS-H sensor gave me the feeling that it was a lower priority for them.

Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against the APS-H sensor. I just don't see it as a replacement for the APS-C.

I'm just reading tea leaves and speculating like everyone else here. And my speculation is that when Canon did a cost-benefit analysis for the APS-H sensor they determined the benefits didn't justify the costs. I think it's probably expensive to design and develop a sensor and its component technologies for only one body. I suspect that as technology advances, the marginal benefits of the APS-H sensor shrink (squeezed between the APS-C on one end and the Full Frame Sensor at the other).

Keep in mind that "good enough" technology almost always triumphs over great technology. That's why most people listen to compressed music files that are inferior to past recordings, why Betamax lost out to VHS, why the internal combustion engine triumphed over other technologies in the early 20th century, etc. etc.

EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 1D C suggested price!!!
« on: April 13, 2012, 12:11:05 PM »
I admit I'm totally out of my knowledge area here...but...

As a consumer, it sure feels like the demand for content today is greater than it has ever been. Virtually every cable network is producing their own shows, growth in "indie" films, and the demand for internet video is limitless while the expectations for quality are becoming more demanding.

Major companies not only need broadcast commercials, but now they must all have internet commercials as well. Remember this isn't just a U.S. or western hemisphere phenomenon either...television and the internet are everywhere and that means the demand for video is everywhere as well. And, don't forget the impact of the tablet revolution, which we can only guess at now (how long before the novel you download to your iPad includes video?)

DSLR demand will grow slowly if at all over the next decade, but video will only get bigger and bigger. I think Canon probably knows exactly what they are doing. I just pray they keep making a few DSLRs for dinosaurs like me.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« on: April 13, 2012, 10:52:36 AM »
I don't think Canon marketing divides the price scale into equal pieces and puts out a model for each of them,

Umm...have you ever bought a television...a computer...any appliances...cars? Every manufacturer divides the market into price points. "You can get this TV for $500, but for $600 you get this. For $1,000 you can have this model..."

Camera manufacturers are no different. They want models in as many price points as possible so they don't leave any customers on the table for the other guys.

There's increasing chatter in the Nikon camp that the D400 will be full-frame, not DX.

Nikon campers are as prone to fantasies as Canon campers.

I agree with the theory of making less model in the lineup and making each one of them richer in features to cater to a larger base of customer.

The beauty of modern manufacturing processes is that companies can afford to divide the marketplace into smaller, more focused segments. Instead of a Model T that comes only in black, you can customize your car right down to the sound system that it has in it. Plus, you can pick from multiple models with small variations. That's what makes it possible for Canon to offer astro-photographers their very own 60D.

Any chance that the APS-H format sensor resurfaces in the 7D Mark II?

I'm trying to turn over a new leaf and not pick on the APS-H fans.

My perspective though: it is the Beta-Max of sensors. Makes perfect sense from a quality standpoint, but the market didn't support it. Canon officially said that the 1Dx was replacing both 1D models, so many assume that means APS-H is dead. Canon spokespersons have backtracked a bit with comments like: "keeping our options open." 

I don't think we'll see it again. Others want to keep the hope alive. I'd be willing to place a pretty large wager though, that if it ever shows up again, it won't be in a 7DII.

Finally, I've been trying to think of a good analogy. I'm no car person (forgive me V8 Beast) but I look at it this way. Some people want to buy the best possible small car available (the 7D) Others want the lowest-priced full-size sedan (5D II).  Now Canon has come out with a mid-priced sedan (5D III). For the time-being they are still selling the full-size budget sedan, but we don't know yet if they will continue to meet that market segment.

Regardless of whether or not they produce a new version of the full-size budget sedan, it's not likely to have much impact on the market for those who prefer the best quality small car because those customers (me being one of them) are simply not interested in the budget sedan.

Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe Upgrade and Discount Offers
« on: April 12, 2012, 01:58:20 PM »
Yes, the mysteries of Adobe Student/Teacher pricing are beyond me.

Fortunately, I bought into the system way back in the days when Pagemaker was available. Through incremental upgrades, special offers, etc., I finally got to the point where I have the entire Design Premium Suite and can just directly upgrade from that.

I have heard that there is a path to convert Student-Teacher editions to regular editions, but I don't know if that is urban legend or not.

Software & Accessories / Adobe Upgrade and Discount Offers
« on: April 12, 2012, 10:51:02 AM »
Adobe is offering a free upgrade to its Creative Suite 6 products when they are released if you buy the 5.5 version now. In addition there is a 10% discount on orders of $375 or more. Code is Spring10 for the discount.

I did some checking of my own records and it looks like upgrading to 5.5 (CS 5.5 Design Premium) is about $200 less than my last upgrade.  There is also a bundle offer of $99 to add Lightroom, if you don't already own it as well.

EOS Bodies / Re: I still don't get the crop debate
« on: April 11, 2012, 05:29:53 PM »
I don't get the crop debate either, but for entirely different reasons.

1) You essentially answered your own question when you said that the cost of producing an APS-C sensor is less than a full frame sensor.

2) It's not correct that the advantages of a smaller sensor are overshadowed by the consequences of pixel density. At most normal ISO speeds, the differences between crop sensor and full frame are virtually undetectable in prints, on the printed page or on a website. (hence the term "pixel peeping")

3) Are you suggesting that manufacturers make full frame sensors that are of the same or similar pixel density as APS-C sensors? If so, then any benefit that might exist with a full frame sensor would disappear. You can't have it both ways  – dense pixels on a full frame good, dense pixels on APS-C bad?

4) While in-camera cropping sounds good in theory, the technology isn't there yet. To accurately frame an image with in-camera cropping requires some sort of electronic viewfinder and the current crop of electronic viewfinders are a poor substitute for an optical viewfinder.

5) After spending a lifetime learning to frame images through the viewfinder, I have no interest in "guesstimating" a crop by using a full-frame viewfinder to frame a cropped image.

6) I don't understand this statement: "cropped 5D3 images are very close to the same resolution as native 7D images at the same FOV." I'm not particularly knowledgeable about the calculations (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong) but I believe a 22mp full frame image cropped to APS-C is 8.6 megapixels. Which is clearly not very close to the 18 mp of the 7D.

What I cannot understand is why so many full frame users seem so upset by the very existence of APS-C bodies. There are two primary DSLR formats today and it is unlikely that either Canon or Nikon are going to abandon either one in the foreseeable future.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5D II to be discountinued?
« on: April 11, 2012, 10:48:26 AM »
Just my two cents: Canon refurbished lists the 5DII at $1,759 (when in stock). That's with a 90-Day Canon warranty and the knowledge that the camera has been serviced by Canon. When Canon offers its 15% sales, that knocks the price down below $1,500.

As a buyer, I wouldn't look at a used "as-is" 5DII from a private seller unless it was significantly less than that.


As far as how long the 5DII might be available...well...Canon is still listing the 50D on its refurbished site. Supplies are unpredictable, but they still list them and sell them when they have them. Given the number of 5DIIs out there, I suspect they will remain available for quite some time even after they are officially discontinued.

Lenses / Re: Lens advice please?...Would you rather have...
« on: April 10, 2012, 06:36:26 PM »
...Also, for those of you shooting weddings for free.  STOP THAT!  There is help out there for you if you are having troubles making money with photography...

If you are referring to Brian, he chooses to shoot weddings for free because his clientele cannot afford a photographer. It is charity work and frankly he should be commended for it. The world would be a better place if we all decided to give back a bit every once and awhile. When I retire from my paying job, I hope I will have the social conscious he does and volunteer to do a little charity work occasionally.

Lenses / Re: Lens advice please?...Would you rather have...
« on: April 10, 2012, 04:35:52 PM »
Is your 5DIII your only body? Do you rent a second when you shoot the wedding?

Shooting a wedding with one body is really dangerous. If it fails on you during the wedding, the legal fees and damage to your reputation will make the price of a second body seem insignificant. If you don't already have a backup body, that would be my first purchase, even if it's a 60D or a Rebel.

Lenses / Re: Why is Canon so slow updating (legacy) lenses?
« on: April 10, 2012, 01:49:55 PM »
Didn't vote.

I don't know anything about optics, but I suspect that lenses don't get updated all that often because the technology is fairly stable. There may be incremental design improvements, but lenses are at heart physical tools for gathering and directing light. They seem to be governed by the laws of physics, which don't get changed very often (as opposed to electronics).

Besides, I used to want to see new lenses, but since each "II" version seems to require at least a doubling or even tripling of the price, I'm much less interested. Good example: I really wanted to get a new version of the 100-400 zoom, but when I learned the replacement would be $3,000, I lost interest.

What difference does it make if a lens is updated if the updated version is far beyond what I am willing to pay?

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: The funniest 5Dm3 User Review
« on: April 03, 2012, 04:21:31 PM »
The review is hilarious, but the angry remarks are even funnier.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« on: April 03, 2012, 03:51:03 PM »
There is plenty of room for an upgraded 7D.

The pricing on the 5D Mark III created the room. There are features that can be added within the current price of the 7D that will keep it selling fast and well loved. The 5D Mark II will be phased out in time and the if the 7D was not upgraded you would have a crater between the $900 60D APS-C and the $3,500 5D Mark III. Once the R&D is done on the features of the 5D Mark III and the 1D X Canon will monetize them by putting them judiciously in cameras that will sell more briskly. The XXD series will also get new features but the 7DII is great aspirational bridge they don't want to phase out.
This makes sense. The 7D should be updated with some of the features of the flagships while keeping the price affordable near its current range. The xxD line adds values at its price range around 1 K as a stepping stone and the Rebels can come in below for hobbyists and families on a budget. Is important to Canon to match people's aspirations with options that offer real value and performance differences.

Yes, this all makes sense. Since we are speculating here, I predict the following:

5D jr. (They will need a new name here.) Full frame "entry-level" Frankencamera.  Sensor: either current 5DII or 5DIII depending on whether it is cheaper to keep making the 5DII sensor or just up the volume of the 5DIII sensor. Canon likes to reuse sensors, so it makes sense to hand the 5D III sensor down to the "jr." Processor? Again, is it cheaper to keep making Digic IV or to use Digic V? I'm guessing Digic V. So, we could see a full frame "entry level" body with a new sensor and new processor, but keeping most of the other features of the 5DII. Price this in the $2,000 to $2,500 range. If all they do is change out the processor and sensor, it may not be much more expensive to manufacture than the current 5D.

7D II Modest autofocus improvements, improved sensor with better low-light performance and reduced noise. Sensor remains somewhere in the 18mp range. An 18mp APS-C sensor would likely enable Canon to use just one processor instead of two, cutting their  processor costs in half, while still boosting or maintaining the current frame rate. With three years of R&D under their belts, the image quality should be roughly equal to the 1D IV, enabling Canon to market the camera to wildlife and sports photographers as well as enthusiasts and prosumers. Priced between $1,600-$1,900 (this is a very competitive niche, so Canon is more price-restrained than with the 5DIII).

70D Will inherit the 7DII sensor after about 9 months to a year. Other modest upgrades to allow for room at the bottom end of the line for enhancements to the Rebels. Again, pricing will be determined primarily by the competitive marketplace, but likely will be similar to the current 60D.

7Dx: Pure speculation/dreaming on my part, but I still don't think we can rule out the possibility of an integrated gripped 7Dx with additional weathersealing and perhaps a higher frame rate, geared toward wildlife and sports photographers. As a successor to the 1D IV they have a lot of pricing flexibility here, but I will be conservative and say they keep it in the $2,500 range. High enough to make a tidy profit on the improvements, but low enough to entice enthusiasts with discretionary income.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« on: April 03, 2012, 10:02:07 AM »
The announcement of the 60Da optimized for astro-photography should (But probably won't) put to rest the rumors of a 70D replacement for the 7D.

It is unlikely Canon would release a new variation in a body that they were planning to significantly upgrade in the next six months or so. The production efficiencies of using the 60D body for the new 60Da disappear if a significantly re-tooled 70D is released.

On the other hand, if the 7DII and 70D releases follow the previous schedule, Canon will have almost a year of production left in the 60D after the new 7D is announced. Plus, keeping both models means that the 70D can continue to use much of the same tooling, etc. as the 60D, allowing Canon it avoid having to keep a separate production line operating for the niche 60Da.

Repositioning the XX series once again never seemed to make much sense. I'm hoping the new 60Da will put that rumor to rest once and for all and let us focus on what is really important – fantasizing about what the 7DII might be like. 

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