November 25, 2014, 06:35:32 PM

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Messages - sdsr

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31
let's say for the sake of argument that Sony sensors really are better at this point in time (a judgment that is highly subjective and very suspect, since it hinges on tiny, tiny differences in just one subset of a sensor's overall performance

There's nothing 'highly subjective' here at all. It's a quantifiable, demonstrable fact. And it's not a tiny difference in just one aspect of overall performance. Low downstream read noise not only increases base ISO dynamic range, but can allow you to maintain high dynamic range at all ISOs if you know how to take advantage of 'ISO-less' sensors.


It may be demonstrably true that Sony sensors (plus whosever are in Nikon's APS-C cameras?) are measurably superior in various ways, but it's not demonstrably true that the differences aren't "tiny" - that's where the "subjective" part that unfocused was (presumably) referring to comes in.  Depending on what you shoot, in what sort of conditions, how you process the image files, how you view/present the results, and the standards you/the viewer apply/ies throughout all of this, the differences may be imperceptible, or noticeable but irrelevant, or significant, etc.  So it could well be that the differences among cameras are all at the margins, margins so small that there aren't enough users out there to significantly affect the market.  For everyone else, there's no "better" in any way that matters. 

32

The questioning and complaints, I feel, come from people who are, for the most part, intelligent and interested in the technologies and see what they believe to be big differences in Banner Specs.  An example of this to me is the recent back and forth on these forums about Sony's 36 and (rumored) 50mpixel sensors.  The Banner Specs look impressive.  In the details, well, it depends on who you are as to whether a system is really better than what you own or not.  If Sony's A7 series is any example, who here would put up with a 1.2FPS?  Who would tolerate terrible AF performance in lower (not even low) light conditions?  Who here would be happy with the current Sony E-mount lens situation?

The folks who are publicly upset (in on-line forums where anonymity can be easy cover) may have other things going on in their lives that lead them to spout off in perhaps inappropriate, ill-informed, ways (see an article on Mary Beard in a recent New Yorker Magazine for how she deals with trolls for an glimpse of what I'm trying to say here).


That sounds about right.  As for the Sony A7 line, it may have some interest for a few here (I happily concede that this is almost certainly a tiny niche) to the extent that it can provide an engaging/useful supplement to Canon bodies.  Some of us (I doubt I'm the only one, at any rate) only use single shot and thus don't care about fps, and the limited range of FE lenses (the two primes, esp. the 55mm, are marvelous) doesn't matter, unless (fast) AF does, since you can easily use your Canon lenses as well as just about any other lens that takes your fancy (MF is easy on these bodies).

As for the various Canon Must Do X To Its Sensors To Survive discussions/assertions, does anyone out there have actual knowledge of the relevant market shift(s), if any?  We all know that Canon outsells everyone else overall, that dslr sales are down, that mirrorless remains a minority segment, that cellphones are a significant threat to the point-and-shoot market, etc., but do we know - say - how many high-end users have switched from Canon to Nikon or Sony (or vice versa) on account of their sensors (or for any other reason, for that matter)?  Do we know how many people care enough about details of sensor performance to contemplate switching?  I suspect we don't, in which case....

33

I'm thinking of shifting the Sony A7r myself, from the 5D Mark II.

...

I'm quite happy with my 5D Mark II for landscape, although I'd love more dynamic range and less pattern noise. But it still does the job well. The A7r gives me more dynamic range and nicely handled noise. But there's drawbacks too. No camera is perfect, so I think we'll always wish for more and complain about things, but in the end the 'best' brand for certain things always changes anyways. For ISO it was Canon, then Nikon, now Sony. Give it another couple of years and it'll be someone again or someone else.


At least, unlike switching to Nikon, switching to or adding an A7r will allow you to use all your Canon lenses (unless you insist on/want/prefer fast AF) which, in my experience, seem to make images that look at least as good as they do on Canon bodies.  For me, that's part of the appeal of good mirrorless bodies - leaving aside (fast) AF, you can use just  about any lens you want.

That said, out of curiosity - how often do you find yourself wanting more DR and/or better low ISO noise performance?

34
Lenses / Re: Input on building a prime lens kit
« on: September 08, 2014, 11:52:01 AM »

I want to sort of "force myself" into leaving the house with 2 or 3 primes and the 6D and making it work to see what happens.


There's a lot to be said for doing this, I think (I often take just one - restrictions can be liberating...), but why don't you start doing this with the lenses you have and see whether you feel limited at either end of the range?    You may be perfectly happy with what you have, or you may want much wider (24mm or less) and/or longer (200mm, say); only you know what you find useful, after all.  And, as I think neuro suggested, supplement this with an experiment take your zooms, but used them fixed at specific lengths - e.g. spend a day or two with your 24-105L at 24mm and see whether it's a focal length that works for you.

Given that you have 35/50/100 I'm inclined to suggest that 85 doesn't make much sense unless you find the 100L too heavy cf 85mm 1.8 or need the extra speed/shallowness of focus at equivalent distances of a faster lens (bearing in mind that you can get much closer to your subject with your 100L than you can with any 85mm lens); and the same may be true of the 135L too - the differences between 85/100 and 100/135 could well prove too small to be worth the expense.  At the other end, if you want wider, since you already have 35mm, you probably would want to skip 28mm in favor of 24mm (or wider).

Who knows, you may not need to buy anything at all....

35
EOS-M / Re: Anything new on EOS-M3? How it may compare to A6000?
« on: September 08, 2014, 11:21:54 AM »
Question from a newbie here.

Comparing the recent price drop on the M. Are the differences in quality really worth the additional expenses of shifting to a different system sony,fuji,olympus? Considering, that is, if one already has a number of ef lenses.

It depends what you mean by "quality".   The image quality created by an M is much the same as that created by Canon's other current APS-C cameras, which is to say barely distinguishable without close scrutiny from any other APS-C camera or, <ISO 1600, from current M43s.  I prefer the images made by my a6000 to those created by Canon or Fuji APS-C or M43, but there's not much in it and, depending on what you shoot and how you look at the results, the differences may not be noticeable at all. 

Since you already have EF lenses, you presumably also have a Canon body of some sort, so the more important question may be whether the M has any advantages over what you currently own.  If you have an older APS-C body, the images may be a bit better, and if you have AFMA issues you can avoid those on an M.  But it will likely boil down to a matter of ergonomics, which is entirely subjective.  I hated the process of using my M and sold it after a couple of months, but you may react otherwise, especially if you don't mind foregoing a viewfinder.  Similarly, there are lots of good reasons for jumping to Sony etc. for smaller, mirrorless bodies, and doing so may not be that expensive (I added, rather than switching, but using Canon lenses requires MF, which you may not want to do), but those reasons may not apply to you either....

36
EOS Bodies / Re: Is Canon now two generations behind Nikon?
« on: September 03, 2014, 07:08:33 PM »

37

My advise: Switch systems, be happy, and STFU ;D

Yes. Especially when there are three Sony FF bodies that you can adapt Canon lenses to and still have aperture control, AF, and IS! You don't even have to switch, just add. AF is dog slow, but who cares for a high DR landscape?

If you're posting in thread after thread on a Canon forum complaining about DR but you haven't switched or added a Sony A7 body, then DR isn't actually the issue.

You have a point.  Depending on what you like to photograph and can afford, the "grass is greener" effect can largely be averted by mixing brands; and mirrorless bodies make that rather easy if you don't mind fiddling with adapters, manual focus, etc.  (I've been enjoying the process of taking photos more, not less, since taking on this somewhat less convenient approach.) 

But if anyone thinks the whining etc. here is predictable and tedious, try m43 rumors, where there seems to be none of the depth of discussion/knowledge found here, and where every topic, no matter what, gets invaded by fools whining about the fact that because 43 sensors are smaller than aps-c & ff the cameras are crap and not worth anyone's attention, and seems dominated by cheerleading fanboys. 

38

Not to forget: good close focus capabilites welcome, sth. like 1:3.5 or 1:4 would be great!


Is a fast 85mm (or longer) lens that focuses close technically possible?  I ask because I'm pretty sure I've never seen one that focuses closer than c. 3 feet - which is the main reason why, for all that I like fast 85mm lenses, I end up using my 100L more often.

As for the original question, I would be interested if it got rid of the 85L's purple fringing and had IS, but those who are hoping such a thing would cost <$1000 seem a tad optimistic.  Focusing speed doesn't matter much to me (I've been contemplating buying a MF Canon 85 1.2 to use on my A7r; much cheaper than the current 85L).

39
EOS Bodies / Re: Do Sensors Make the Camera?
« on: August 27, 2014, 05:32:55 PM »

3. The smears on the Hassleblad Lunar is that it is a dressed-up Sony. So why isn't a Nikon D810 smeared for being a dressed-up Sony?


Probably because the Hasselblad Lunar doesn't merely use a Sony sensor - it's essentially a now-discontinued Sony Nex 7 (the whole camera, not just the sensor) with hideous Hasselblad artefacts (grip, etc.) stuck on parts of the exterior and a fancy case, for which they charge c. eight times as much as the Sony original.  (I imagine it sells, to the extent it does, merely because it's expensive; if it were as cheap as it looks....) 

As for the rest, Jrista and others have said all that needs to be said, probably.  Depending on what you shoot you may well find that the differences among various sensors are pretty trivial.  I happily use Canon FF & APS-C, Sony FF & APS-C and Olympus M43 (a model with yet another Sony sensor, though that isn't why I bought it).  My preference for Sony among these is partly for those instances where the sensor makes a difference, but mainly because I prefer mirrorless to dslr.

40
Lenses / Re: Help deciding on going full frame
« on: August 27, 2014, 04:55:57 PM »

My intention is to have a good quality walkabout all in one solution when on holiday etc with the wife.  Pickup the 6D and 24-105 and off we go with no need to swap out lenses. I am hoping to see a good IQ improvement over the 550D and 18-135 STM.


I'm sure you will (and you will likely be amazed by how much better 6D + 24-105 is in low light/high ISO).  One caveat, though - when you use your 18-135, how often are you near the long end?  You doubtless know this already, but in case you don't, while the 24-105 is usefully wider than the 18-135, it's less than half as long (the FF equiv. of 135mm is 216mm); so the 24-105 doesn't provide the same "all in one" convenience.  You may find the 70-300L more useful than you expect!  (For similar convenience, the Tamron 28-300 may be worth checking out; I've seen some fairly good reviews of it.)

41
EOS Bodies / Re: Are you planning to purchase a 7D2
« on: August 27, 2014, 04:27:09 PM »
Given what I use cameras for (no sports or equivalent, for instance), I have no interest in it or any other large, expensive "professional" APS-C dslr body unless its image quality is superior to current FF (which it surely won't be); otherwise it would have no advantages for me over my SL1 and Sony a6000 (both of which are cheap), let alone my FF bodies. 

42
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Canon mirrorless: Status?
« on: August 18, 2014, 05:40:54 PM »

I'm intrigued why more fixed-mount lenses with a simple, high quality zoom aren't offered more often.  Right now, the best bet for fixed-mount lens with a small, high quality zoom are some "cheaper" APS-C Leicas or the high-end point and shoots like the Sony RX100 series or the G1X II.  Fuji has the X10, X20 bodies that do this as well, I think...

I think the reason why is manufacturers want lens pullthrough dollars, so the added cost / hassle of making it modular in as many body designs as possible is more profitable in the longer term.  Just guessing, though.


You may be right about all that, though it's perhaps ironic that for some (doubtless a tiny minority) part of the appeal of mirrorless bodies is the ability to use lenses that aren't being made any more....  Plus, you have to wonder - yet again - at Sony's RX10 and the slightly newer Panasonic equivalent, with their supposedly excellent longish zoom lenses, which must make a lot of potential customers wonder why they should bother with Sony's and Panasonic's other mirrorless bodies.

As for an earlier point you were making about mirrorless needing to be small, that may end up being true from a marketing perspective, but for some of us (who knows how many  - I suspect few, though) mirrorless has appeal independent of size (I prefer EVFs and the absence of AFMA-causing mirrors, for instance).  But if you do want to keep it small, you can compensate quite a bit for loss of reach, while keeping decent-size sensors, if you boost resolution.  The extent to which you can crop on a Sony a7r when using a very sharp lens such as the Sony/Zeiss 55mm 1.8 is remarkable.  And if you don't insist on speed, Sony (85mm 2.8) and Nikon (film-era 100mm 2.8 E) have shown that you can go fairly long while remaining remarkably small and light.

43

Do I but the Sigma 14-24mm OS which takes 82mm filters, although all my other lenses take 77mm filters, and also lose 13° of angle of view compared to the Canon 16-35mm f/4? I think not.

I'm sure these lenses will be good for others, but I will skip them for now.

Well, yes, but it's easy to get excellent lenses in the 24mm-35mm range.  It isn't at the ultra-wide end, and the difference between 14 and 16 isn't as trivial as it looks if you're into that sort of thing (you may not be of course; it's rather a niche interest).  Of course, if Sigma had been able to conjure up a significant improvement to it's 12-24mm that would have been even better.  Perhaps 14mm is the practical limit for such things.

44
EOS Bodies / Re: SL1 as a "travel" body
« on: August 13, 2014, 08:14:28 PM »
How is the viewfinder on the SL-1? I looked through a 450D the other day and was shocked by the tininess of the OVF. I like to see what I'm doing and for that reason I actually like the EVF on my NEX - it's much bigger than the OVF of a traditional xxx(x)D body.

It's very small compared to a Sony a7r, a6000 or OM-D EM1 (or, as I understand it, the latest top-level Fuji X).  I much prefer a decent EVF.

45
EOS Bodies / Re: SL1 as a "travel" body
« on: August 13, 2014, 02:06:37 PM »
I always thought the SL-1 looked interesting for use on a telescope with its low weight. How is the iso performance ? I use the 5DmIII for wide field but still use the 40D when I need to get closer ( and lighter), and it stinks above iso 800.

High ISO performance is much the same as other recent Canon APS-C bodies (you can see for yourself at dpreview).  I've never used a 40D, so I can't say how it compares to that, though.  Of course, it's nowhere near as good as 5DIII or 6D.  As a sort of experiment, I took a SL1 + Sigma 18-250 to Longwood Gardens last weekend, left my A7r + lenses in the car, and ended up taking quite a few photos at ISO 3200 (the max I set) as the light dropped.  I'm in the middle of processing the results; if you don't peer in too closely, I think they're not bad - though I'll be returning soon with FF & faster lenses....

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