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Messages - LetTheRightLensIn

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1786
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX new all-time low-light king?
« on: July 01, 2012, 02:54:59 PM »
After the stunning high iso performance levels I'd started to think they really had some new magic through and through, but only in terms of light collection and not read noise as it turns out.

Just curious, what's about the read-noise? Is it on the same level as 5D Mark III has?
Did you have a completely black RAW picture to perform your test?

It's a little better read noise per photosite than the 5D3, but only a trace, after normalizing 18MP vs 22MP. There is less banding though so even though it probably won't measure any better for DR and won't really have any practical advantage in the random read noise itself, it has much less vertical pattern banding and that should make the files more pliable than the 5D3 and 5D2 files, probably getting closer to the 1Ds3. It has a touch more horizontal banding than 5D3, which has none, but not too much at all, and much less vertical.

Yeah, total black frame.

It's more read noise per photosite than the 1D4 and, by a trace, the 1Ds3 but seems to have a lot less ugly pattern junk than the 1D4 so it may be a little better than the 1D4 in terms of actual real world usable DR.

1787
Lenses / Re: Canon EF 24 f/2.8 IS & EF 28 f/2.8 IS Quick Review
« on: July 01, 2012, 02:45:39 PM »
The old 24mm f/2.8 is an amazingly sharp lens, even on FF. Not sure why I would pay THAT much for an upgrade. USM & IS aren't really a priority at 24mm.

Not sure why the old lens doesn't get much love.

Even on APS-C, my tamron 28-75 and 17-50 and even the kit 18-55 IS (although with some other aspects worse) were sharper than the old 24 2.8 prime. My copy, at least, didn't seem to do so well for shooting distant landscapes crisply corner to corner.

1788
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX new all-time low-light king?
« on: July 01, 2012, 04:31:15 AM »
It's only fair to compare them on a normalized basis. Funny how nobody in Canon-land cried about normalization when the Canon cameras had way more MP....


Like comparing the 5DII against the D3X??  :o :o

5D2 vs D700 etc.   ::)

1789
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX new all-time low-light king?
« on: July 01, 2012, 01:03:27 AM »
Anyway, 1DX dynamic range results are in.

Who's results are in?  Anyone's but yours?

Nobody else's but mine at this point but no I am not going into ten pages to defend and explain, you can just wait and see and believe it for now or not.

If you do recall though, despite all the nonsense and heaps of abuse tossed my way about how my 5D3 results (and others as well in that case) were so ridiculous, lo and behold but when DxO put out their results and someone else on here also carried it out, my results were like DxO's (and there's) to the tenth! just sayin'. But that is all I will say this time. I'm staying out of the argument. If you want to on for 30 pages about or not, whatever.

Anyway this is basically a PJ cam and it brings the AF and speed in spades along with, what seems likely to be, world-class high iso performance.

1790
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX new all-time low-light king?
« on: June 30, 2012, 08:06:20 PM »
Then again for 2x the price, i would HOPE the 1dx would have a better sensor/high ISO than the 5d3... but but but, any quesses on DR LetTheRightLensIn?

I'd be surprised if it can match D800 DR. I doubt that is possible.

Other than that it's hard to say but the fact that it appears, assuming that guys test with the flower shots didn't have any hidden gotchas, that the high iso is so amazing that they must be using something totally new for the 1DX sensor so I think it's now certainly quite possible that it could be say a solid 1.5 stops better DR than the 5D2 and somewhere around D4 level DR, i.e. no match for any Exmor, but a nice step up from anything Canon has done before and match for the best non-Exmor DR. But who knows. Anyway I'd be slightly surprised if it it is not within the range of 0.5 to 2 stops better DR than the 5D2, at this point.

People have posted raw frames, but all anyone posts is supr high iso raws so I have nothing but guesses to go on.

You are right - the D800 will always beat the 5DIII DR figure fromDxO because of the way they calculate it, where mps plays a significant part

It's only fair to compare them on a normalized basis. Funny how nobody in Canon-land cried about normalization when the Canon cameras had way more MP....

Anyway, 1DX dynamic range results are in. As a 5D3 owner I am relieved  ;D. As a Canon DSLR system user I am worried  :'(

After the stunning high iso performance levels I'd started to think they really had some new magic through and through, but only in terms of light collection and not read noise as it turns out.

They appear to have improved banding so it's not as nasty as the 5D2/7D/50D/1D4 or even 5D3 in the low ISO shadows, that is good, it's more on order of the 1Ds3/1D3/40D. So it was looking good.

But then I measured the read noise and it's absolutely nothing special at all. It's better per photosite than for the 5D3 and even, just barely, after normalization but it appears to be set to peg in only around 11.8 on DxO's normalized to 8MP chart. So it's a little disappointing they didn't get it to D4-levels of 13.1 (D4 does not use Exmor patents) or even many older Nikons at 12.2 level. Exmor levels were, of course, not expected.

Anyway it rules at high ISO but, for high DR scenes, it's very old news in terms of ISO100-200 shooting, oh well.

I am a little worried now about whether Canon will ever be able to get close to Nikon for lower ISO shooting. I really, really hope they can pull it off, at least to D4-like levels by the next round of 5D4s and all. I really don't want to switch to Nikon, but if Nikon is going to be like 3-4 stops better by then at low ISO or something....

But since this thread is about low light king, yeah the 1DX just utterly kicks ass there, I'm astounded how well it appears to do.

1791
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX new all-time low-light king?
« on: June 28, 2012, 03:11:07 PM »
Then again for 2x the price, i would HOPE the 1dx would have a better sensor/high ISO than the 5d3... but but but, any quesses on DR LetTheRightLensIn?

I'd be surprised if it can match D800 DR. I doubt that is possible.

Other than that it's hard to say but the fact that it appears, assuming that guys test with the flower shots didn't have any hidden gotchas, that the high iso is so amazing that they must be using something totally new for the 1DX sensor so I think it's now certainly quite possible that it could be say a solid 1.5 stops better DR than the 5D2 and somewhere around D4 level DR, i.e. no match for any Exmor, but a nice step up from anything Canon has done before and match for the best non-Exmor DR. But who knows. Anyway I'd be slightly surprised if it it is not within the range of 0.5 to 2 stops better DR than the 5D2, at this point.

People have posted raw frames, but all anyone posts is supr high iso raws so I have nothing but guesses to go on.

1792
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« on: June 28, 2012, 03:02:36 PM »
Great review and highly appreciated comparison with the 5D3 high ISOs. As I the 1Dx is way out of my economic reach, as an enthusiast amateur photographer I will have plenty of camera with the 5D3 covering any type of photography I am aimed at. I really consider it as kind of a mini 1Dx at almost half of the price. Made the day for me, though. Suirely will go for a 5D3 within a year or so. Saving up for a nice WA. Cheers, Pedro

There's another aspect to the sensor performance in the 1DX and that is if the improved picture quality isn't due to just a better JPEG noise elimination algorithm then that quite clearly Canon can deliver a better sensor than what is in the 5D Mark III.

One guy with Canon connections said months ago that we'd soon enough realize that Canon held back their new sensor tech for the 1DX so they could re-use the old lines once more to raise margin on the 5D3 since they felt that all the body upgrades were enough this time to not force their hand at the 100% new sensor tech.

If that's true then Canon will be making a killing on the 5D Mark III's current price.

Yeah, although to be fair, sometimes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing so a semi-insider may have a view or assemble some bits of info in ways that in the end are actually distorted from reality.

1793
Yes, it is too early. Maybe after the low ISO results are in though.  ;D

But for now, hah, all we have are tentative high ISO results and these look to be ground-breaking:

For high ISO it appears quite possible that it will be the best in the history of DSLRs.
Shockingly it may do ISO4000 as the 5D2 does ISO1600  :o and the 5D3 does ISO2500!  :o
(and yes that is RAW not talking jpg NR nonsense!)


(ah imagine had they put this new tech in the 5D3 and we had that ground-breaking high iso and then imagine if it at least matches D4 for low ISO.... all the whining about D800 may have been reduced by 80%, but Canon marketing decided they could milk the old line once more in the 5D3....)

1794
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX new all-time low-light king?
« on: June 27, 2012, 10:06:54 PM »
Pretty nuts to think that shooting ISO4000 on this might be vaguely like shooting ISO1600 on 5D2.  :o  :o  :o
(and better than shooting ISO2500 on the 5D3  :o)
whoa




1795
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX new all-time low-light king?
« on: June 27, 2012, 10:02:58 PM »
:o

OK where is the REAL LTRLI and what have you done with him?!

Haha, still here as always. I simply call it like I see it for good or bad. In this particular scenario, 1DX at high iso, VERY much for the good.

The 1DX high ISO performance, at least from what I can guess at from those samples, appears to be stunning, likely the best ever seen in the history of DSLRs. I'm kinda stunned actually. Never thought they'd pull a solid 2/3rds or more stops better than 5D3 there.

If this holds up it's gonna rock at high ISOs.

(I still think the D800 will easily beat it at ISO100-400 though, but I'm no longer sure the D4 will, perhaps they tie but 1DX with more MP nudges it for the win?)

1796
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX new all-time low-light king?
« on: June 27, 2012, 06:37:17 PM »
the review said 1 full stop + not 2/3

Yeah but I was just going by my eye and what some others said he have even tried a little direct measurement on the samples.

Whatever the case it looks to be a stunning high iso performer, it's hard to imagine it (ever) being topped without doing something radical.

1797
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« on: June 27, 2012, 06:32:33 PM »
The 1dx is completely different, as the review says it's all about build quality, af tracking and fps. You don't need 14fps of your cat, and the 1dx's weight and size are not in the "fun" category anymore.

Depends on your cat  :D

hah

1798
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« on: June 27, 2012, 06:31:33 PM »
The only thing Nikon beat Canon with the D800 is the megapixels and price (not enough for me and many photographers to switch sides). Everything else, the Mark III does much better.

It's not even so much the MP as the quality of the pixels, much better at ISO100-800 on the D800.

1799
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« on: June 27, 2012, 06:29:39 PM »
Great review and highly appreciated comparison with the 5D3 high ISOs. As I the 1Dx is way out of my economic reach, as an enthusiast amateur photographer I will have plenty of camera with the 5D3 covering any type of photography I am aimed at. I really consider it as kind of a mini 1Dx at almost half of the price. Made the day for me, though. Suirely will go for a 5D3 within a year or so. Saving up for a nice WA. Cheers, Pedro

There's another aspect to the sensor performance in the 1DX and that is if the improved picture quality isn't due to just a better JPEG noise elimination algorithm then that quite clearly Canon can deliver a better sensor than what is in the 5D Mark III.

One guy with Canon connections said months ago that we'd soon enough realize that Canon held back their new sensor tech for the 1DX so they could re-use the old lines once more to raise margin on the 5D3 since they felt that all the body upgrades were enough this time to not force their hand at the 100% new sensor tech.

Of course we still have no clue how it does at low ISO. I still tend to bet the D800 will cream it there. Perhaps, if we are lucky, it can match the D4 ISO100 DR and banding though???

1800
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« on: June 27, 2012, 06:26:51 PM »
And he's saying 1 stop improvement in noise for higher ISO. If that's true for raw and not just JPEG then that's quite significant as that advantage. Likely this will at least pair it with the D4 in performance.

This isn't the difference 4MP less makes, this is a new sensor design.

He is saying RAW. It actually looks like a solid 2/3 stop better than 5D3 at high ISO, insane! That has got to beat the D4 and make the 1DX be the best lowlight DSLR in history (and I'm not honestly sure it could be ever beaten, at least not with a standard CMOS sensor + Bayer CFA).


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