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Messages - LetTheRightLensIn

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I have not seen anyone discuss this review:

While he does not outright declare a winner - I think he prefers the 5d Mk3 followed by the D4.

I didn't think he liked the D4 at all. I think he slightly preferred the 5D3 but also liked the D800 because it was sharper, 5D3 is kinda soft although it has no aliasing/moire and much better SNR.

DxoMarks shows 5D mkIII's high iso is pretty low, much lower than its Nikon counterparts. And that is backed up by DPReview comparison tool. Have a look at this:

Absolutely no detail in 5DIII's high-iso JPG. It looks like the so-called high ISO improvement is in JPG, and only at the expense of the image quality and detail. So, please explain what is so amazing about 5DIII's high iso performance? Its RAW is same as D800's, albeit lower detail. JPG is just embarrassing.

I have Pentax has the reference. It shows what-should-have-been ideal.


Anwyay DxO mark doesnt say 5D3 has much worse high, it says it has the same, tied for best of all, SNR. The overall low iso score is a bit lower because they did things with the color filter and it is a bit more color blind and chroma noise but it basically has close to the best high iso there is.

Low ISO DR is pretty sad in that it is not better than 3-5 years ago (actually slightly worse!).

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS-3D Surfaces Again [CR1]
« on: May 16, 2012, 09:24:17 PM »
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<strong>3D for the megapixel lover<br />

</strong>The Canon EOS-3D has been a rumored camera since before rumor sites, and every so often a flurry of new rumors under the moniker “EOS-3D” surface.</p>
<p>Recently a suggestion that a new “high megapixel” camera will be around by spring 2013 has come about. It’s reported that at least a couple of test bodies are being used in the US and in Asia.</p>
<p>While I don’t doubt high megapixel sensors are in testing, it’s probably too early to nail down exact specs. I also dislike the name “3D” if a product doesn’t actually shoot 3D.</p>
<p>Another suggestion is the 1D C isn’t going to be the only Cinema EOS DSLR by the end of 2013.</p>
<p>Source: [<a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_3d.html" target="_blank">NL</a>] & CR</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

If Canon thinks that to come out a new body by increasing the mega pix to compete with Nikon D800 ... please think again .... it is really not about mega pixels anymore .... it is more about sensor quality and technology that the market is after now! Adding more pixels into the same 2005 silicon die, year in and year out, simply doesn't work anymore this time .... it is more about colour depth (16-bits), dynamic range (14 stops) and low light capability that give Medium Format a real run for its money that the market is after this time!!!!

  plus 1

A few more MP wouldn't hurt but some crazy 40-45MP with locked 3fps and same old DR would be worse compared to the D800 than the 5D3 IMO, at least the 5D3 gives you 6fps in FF and non-line skipped video.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: A few hours with a 5D3
« on: May 14, 2012, 09:52:16 PM »
@ LetTheRightLensIn 10 posts on one page!!..
now I know how to reach your 1000 posts record.
You must definitely be the best Nikon man on this forum..

Yup because my review didn't save that every single aspect of the 5D3 is the best in any DSLR ever made I am thus a long time Nikon shooter and troll. You got me. You are clever!

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: A few hours with a 5D3
« on: May 14, 2012, 04:04:51 AM »

hah yes:
shutter response
high iso performance
user interface

That's a very fair assessment, although I'm still not sold on the metering system yet. I've played around with spot, partial, evaluative, and center weighted modes quite a bit, and regularly get images that are underexposed by 1/2 - 1 stop. It's a minor issue, and perhaps I'll find the right setting for the right situation with more practice.

Yeah have you to manage the metering fairly actively, I bet the 1DX and D800 with the fancier meters might be able to be left to their whims a bit more.

Side note: For macro with flash, the metering on all my Canons has been crazy erratic from 1.5 over to 1.5 under, I might be doing something wrong there, there has to be a way to make it behave better for macro flash.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: A few hours with a 5D3
« on: May 13, 2012, 09:16:27 PM »

1Ds3 has no video, crummy live view, it's a brick, 1 fps less (doesn't sound like much but I find that it's just enough to noticeably reduce the number of times you get two key action frames for sports, with 5 it only happens now and then at 6 it happens somewhat regularly at 8 it happens almost every time), at least a full stop worse SNR, no 100% image review in cam, worse user interface, the extra 0.4 DR ain't worth having to deal with all that  ;D

+ no noise at low iso
+ no banding
+ 1fps over the D800
+ 0.4 dr
+ af point metering
+ f/8 af

Cons low iso

crummy liveview?
worse user interface? same as all 1 series
brick? like the same as gripped 5D3  which you need for serious portrait work

pro - 6
con - 1

[sarcasm] I see the 5D3 has made a lot of progress in 4 years [/sarcasm]

hmm you are mixing your pros and cons between 1Ds3 vs D800 and 5D3 :)

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: A few hours with a 5D3
« on: May 13, 2012, 09:14:28 PM »
OK, so there are features other than DR that are actually important to you. Just checking :)

hah yes:
shutter response
high iso performance
user interface

all of these are improved compared to the 5D2 and they are mostly the same to slightly better than the D800 (I think shutter response and metering are worse than D800 though as is lack of built-in flash (if this messes with T&S lenses on FF then perhaps it is just as well though) or intervalometer)

1. Anyway so far the one shot AF seems to be very good. Some have said for center point one shot it's no better than 5D2/7D since those were already great and some said it's definitely improved. I'm in the it's definitely improved camp. And the outer points are obviously world's better than the 5D2 outer points. Didn't try sports AI Servo yet. I read encouraging reports though. The AF spread coverage is better than on the 5D2 and it obviously gives you tons more options of every sort. It is nice to be able to pick a point exactly on the detail to focus on and not need worry about outer points not grabbing or having to slightly shift composition to bring a point in line or whether the outer points will actually ever grab focus or not, etc. And micro-focus adjustment now offers both wide and tele settings for zooms. They certainly gave it their all and finally held nothing back from AF. Great to get 1 series AF in a small body at last!

2. Top notch SNR at all ISOs, nothing else does better although a few, D4/D800/1DX(likely) do as well (the D3s also does as well but the resolution is so much lower so the 'grain' size is large and the detail low so I don't think it holds up anymore to the new best D4,D800,5D3). DxO says something like 2/3rds of a stop better than 5D2.

3. It offers the only video that is truly aliasing and moire free (if a bit rather soft....), D800 video has lots of color moire and a touch of aliasing and it has at least 1.5 stops worse SNR although it is a touch sharper, hacked GH2 is sharper and has zoom modes that are great although it has a touch of a digital look to it, everything else doesn't come close to 5D3.

4. General user interface is good, I know some people like Nikon UI but it always seemed non-intuitive to me, you can pick up a Canon never having used one before and be good to go in a minute, not with a Nikon.

5. General UI better than on the 5D2. You have the 7D's dedicated video switch, the histogram is outlined so it shows up even under the sun, the LCD looks better, the instant and exact zoom to 1:1 and back makes reviewing so much more efficient, dual review doesn't hurt, the rate button will surely save time under some scenarios, the liveview zoomed mode is much crisper than the weird line-skipped mangle in the D800 (not sure why they did that since the D800 should be able to do it better as their D7000 does), might be forgetting some things or not had time to come across them yet.

6. The grip is grippier.

7. The build is better, no creaking doors and such.

8. No ugly banding in darker parts of very high ISO shots, it's all gone even up to at least 25,600 (as high as I've looked so far). 5D2 could get ugly banding in the darker parts of very high ISO images and make them look unnatural and objectionable at times, 5D3 is free of that.

9. 50% faster frame rate than 5D2 (or D800 in FF mode) and shorter mirror blackout and shutter response times make it feel snappier so it's certainly better for action, some critical improvements there! D800 is even a bit snappier still for response but its 6fps are only with grip and DX mode (5fps without grip at 25MP), when you can get close enough to frame as desired the D800 will suffer for noise compared to the 5D3 at high speed by quite a bit, otherwise, when fully distance limited, it would arguably do better since you don't waste storage space on empty outer area of frame and it has more reach due to higher photosite density and if you leave the grip behind and suddenly wish you ahd the speed it's 4fps all the way.

10. Very high ISO DR is improved a bit from the 5D2 although the D4 has it beat in that regard, nothing else really does though, D800 is similar although a bit worse at the really high ISOs.

11. Has no low ISO horizontal banding (although still having all the vertical you still notice banding anyway, for the shots where that stuff could appear).

the bad:
1. The low ISO dynamic range considering what else is out there and they actually went backwards(!) (if only trace) from the 5D2 after three years, has some of worst read noise per photosite at ISO 100 of any camera they've made since 30D era, shocking. This is one part where the dropped the more than I or just anyone ever remotely imagined. Kinda sad really.

2. It's perhaps a minor thing but that just makes it all the more ridiculous but they still have crippled autoiso (although not nearly as crippled as on the 5D2 which is utterly useless, other brands get it right at all price levels though and don't play such games) since still no EC in M mode and for Av they made the maximum minumum shutter speed limited to an absurd 1/250th (BTW there is zero technical reason for this, it could be whatever number the want). Could be fixed in firmware with maybe one line of code altered.

3. No crop mode for video (and the 2x2 sampling might mean they need to do less blurring and make it sharper) (no worse than 5D2) and no focus peaking and zebra stripes, supposedly still a cheap hissy audio amp but I didn't listen myself yet not sure (some other brands get it right at times), all rather a shock. For 3 years and with all the acclaim the 5D2 brought it's really pretty ridiculous. Thankfully it seems ML will work so 2 of 3 should be fixed by that. We just have to hope Canon will add the sharp 2x2 C300-like sampled 1920x1080 1.6x crop mode.

4. Can't change focusing screen (it always seems weird to me when you are shoot f/1.4 and the entire scene looks in focus through VF when only a small fraction is, at least the AF is better so it's not quite such a risk to trust it is doing what it should be and the point spread is wider and the outer points work much better though) (most other options get it right).

5. Reach is slightly weak for wildlife (no worse than 5D2 though) (only the D800 is appreciably better for FF) and max detail can't match D800 for landscapes. I could live with it for now if they truly couldn't go beyond 22MP and keep 6fps, it seems they could've bumped up a bit more though and it's a bit troublesome that they didn't at least improve the DR then, if they did that then low ISO would've been improved even without more MP.

6. No f/8 AF (although if it improves it otherwise the trade off is worth it IMO, although if the D4/D800 actually is as good, and I see reports going both ways, then you do wonder a bit) (no worse than 5D2 though) (only older 1 series and newest higher-level Nikons can do it).

7. Still has as much vertical banding at low ISO as the 5D2 (only the 1Ds3 from Canon, I think, is free of vertical banding at low ISO).

8. A bit higher in chroma noise and can distinguish a bit fewer colors than the top Nikons since they had to cheat the color filter a little to get to the record tying SNR.

9. SD slot is crippled to be very slow, a bit odd for a $3500 camera which will be used by wedding photographers a lot. I don't think it will be a huge deal for what I do but it seems a bit of a nasty cripple for wedding shooters and it's pretty bizarre, they get stuck with a very small buffer and slow clearing, very odd, seems like a penny pinching cheap decision. For me, at the moment at least, I don't think it matters much though.

Certainly it's much nicer than the 5D2, much better usability, a better and more fun to use camera that can handle, with aplomb, a wider array of shooting circumstances and it has somewhat better low light image quality that takes it to top of class for that and video without moire/aliasing disasters plus what looks like 2 stops better noise than the 5D2.

The low ISO DR is a huge shame though as are the mysterious absence of a few video features and it's slightly surprisingly that this long after digic 4 that 22MP is the max for 6fps.

EOS Bodies / Re: 5D3 price drop?
« on: May 13, 2012, 04:08:28 PM »
So far, no one has shown a price drop.  Just imported gray market cameras sold at the full price in the country where they were purchased, plus a markup.  Canon sells them in the USA for $3500 and they are charging that plus a markup.
A price drop comes when Canon drops the price to dealers.

Beach had some ebay deals last week I heard and J&R has had $130 if you order through one rep for the past two weeks. So there have been some discounts around. One I sell the kit, collect cash back points and with the $130 off I might end up getting the body for around $3150 total.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: A few hours with a 5D3
« on: May 13, 2012, 04:06:16 PM »
5D3 even measured a full 0.4 stops worse dynamic range AND with worse banding than a 1Ds3 someone lent me some files from. The 5D3 actually has just about the worst read noise per photosite of all the Canon models. Worse than 40D,50D,60D,7D,1D4,5D2,1Ds3,etc.

If DR were as important to me as it is to you, I'd switch systems in a heartbeat, $$$$ lost on lenses be damned. I take it you're not switching to Nikon, so why not get a 1Ds3 instead of a 5D3? You'd still get a very capable AF system, similar burst rate, and that precious 0.4 extra stop of DR :)

1Ds3 has no video, crummy live view, it's a brick, 1 fps less (doesn't sound like much but I find that it's just enough to noticeably reduce the number of times you get two key action frames for sports, with 5 it only happens now and then at 6 it happens somewhat regularly at 8 it happens almost every time), at least a full stop worse SNR, no 100% image review in cam, worse user interface, the extra 0.4 DR ain't worth having to deal with all that  ;D

Anyway I'll give them until the 5D4 for the DR. What if I switch now and then have to deal with Nikon UI which I don't really like, $1700 down the drain swapping my super-tele alone never mind the rest (which I hadn't budgeted for this time, next time I'll be ready, just in case), the lack of a few lenses and then the 5D4 comes out in 2 years with good DR?

I do care about DR so eventually if I have to switch I will. But in the end I decided it makes the most sense to give them one round to catch up.

If I shot purely landscape and such then I would've have just switch now, but I don't.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: A few hours with a 5D3
« on: May 12, 2012, 10:46:27 PM »
Hopefully 5D4 will fix the DR so I don't get forced into D900 next round. I figured I'd given them one more round to fix DR since they fixed the AF and speed.
If you need more DR for your work, why are you waiting to switch? Genuinely curious :)

I will, D900 round, if need be, hope not. Sent you a PM with the gorey details of why not yet.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: A few hours with a 5D3
« on: May 12, 2012, 10:45:17 PM »
So I re-did my 24 1.4 II at 1.4 indoor AF test, a tricky test, with the 5D2 (couldn't exactly recall the hit rate when I tested it a year ago) and, well as I said, the 5D3 missed only 1 in 34 shots (2 if you get picky) but the 5D2 tonight missed 9 (10 if you get picky) of the 34! So 5D3 definitely did better hah.

7d has a separate processor JUST FOR AF... the 5d3 doesn't. 

Not true.

The 5D Mark III has a dedicated processor for the AF:

From the Canon site (and many many other sites)

Both the 1D X and the 5D Mark III use dedicated AF microprocessors; these AF microprocessors are not DIGIC chips. The increased sensitivity of the focus system has also allowed for faster predictive focus measurements. Increased processing power is another factor to the 5D III's excellent AF performance - "The dedicated AF processor is four times faster than the one found in the EOS-1D Mark IV.

Also my 5D mark III is very close to 6 FPS.
Not sure why his 5D mark III is slow !! , make sure noise reduction is also off and battery fully charged.

Noisy images at 100 ISO !!!! , please post sample images so that we can see what is wrong.
If your 7D output is less noisy then for sure something is wrong.

Fair enough that the 5d3 has a microprocessor, although unspecified by canon, it is unknown what the power that processor is compared to a full digic. As far as it was explained to me, the 7d's drive was aided by 2 digic 4 processors, much like the 1d4's 2 processors helped that AF system and drive.  The 1dx also has 2 digic 5+ processors to help that drive and buffer.  The 5d3 has 1 digic 5+ processor in comparison to the 7d and 1d4 and 1dx 2 digic processors.  It has been hinted that the 5d3's 1 processor should be (in af terms) be as good if not better than the 1d4 although it lacks in FPS and buffer, it is what it is.

7D does NOT use the 2 digic iv for AF it has a dedicated AF chip. 1DX also has a dedicated AF chip, the digic iv in the 1DX is only used to do the special color metering AF stuff.

From my experience, Even with ISO 100, on most cameras, it's possible to recreate banding... I shoot product photography and metalized materials on a reflective surface gives me strong banding at ISO 100.  Other materials aren't noticeable and looks flawless...  what surface is the banding occurring on?  a highly reflective surface?  Skin tones should be porous enough to break the banding...  As for the slow FPS, if you have the camera on focus first/speed second it will only fire when it's "sure" it's got focus... Also remember the 7d has a separate processor JUST FOR AF... the 5d3 doesn't.  Its processor is faster than the digic 4's, supposedly, but it isn't a miracle worker, and is suspect in less challenging situations, it should be able to get 6FPS if set to do so.  The AF point illumination is a problem but is easily fixable via firmware.

For $3500, with AF being the main upgrade, it sure as heck should track in AI Servo at 6fps, I sure hope the 7D doesn't leave it in the dust.

Is everyone that has 5D Mark III's on backorder...starting to get them yet?

Kinda wondering if I order one in next couple of days...about how long till I'd get it....

I read they're shipping I think a week ago...so, wondering if people are starting to get them now...



Yes, 4/22 order from J&R came in. And even some people who ordered from them as late as last night had them ship today already.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: A few hours with a 5D3
« on: May 12, 2012, 02:37:27 AM »
OK now this was interesting. Indoors, night, compact fluorescent lighting, took 34 snaps with a 24 1.4L II, all shot wide open at 1.4, aimed at subjects all over the room and 33 were 100% in focus! And the one that was off was not off by much! I've never had a hit rate that high under that scenario before. A wide lens wide open is a tricky test for AF. My 5D2 had been the best Canon I'd tried at that sort of thing before and I think it probably missed 1 in 5 shots.

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