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Messages - LetTheRightLensIn

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2161
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: M RAW or "full" RAW on a Canon 6d?
« on: May 14, 2013, 01:29:00 PM »
Just curious what most are using with their 6D or even Mark III?  M RAW to save file space, or "full" RAW?  According to the manual it is faster to shoot in full RAW, but the files are about 30% larger.  How much quality will I lose if I shoot in M RAW?  What are the drawbacks?  When would you shoot ful full RAW, and when would someone shoot in M RAW?  Also, why would full raw, with larger files sizes be faster in burst mode than M RAW?

Any info or help on this would be great, thanks!

You lose a decent amount. Those RAWs are not even truely full real RAWs, they've been debayered and so on already and give up a good bit of resolution and reach.

2162
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Mark III with Continuous RAW Video Recording
« on: May 14, 2013, 03:16:24 AM »
http://www.eoshd.com/content/10324/big-news-hands-on-with-continuous-raw-recording-on-canon-5d-mark-iii

The updated video there now is beyond insane.

The 5D3 may have just become the greatest DSLR in history!!!!

(OK if you like video and stills; otherwise if you only care about still then 1DX for fast action, 7D for wildlife reach and D800/D600 for low ISO high DR work)

2163
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Mark III with Continuous RAW Video Recording
« on: May 14, 2013, 03:13:52 AM »
So why is he wearing a helmet?

because the quality of this camera is now mind blowing and he wants to retain his brains :D

2164
EOS Bodies / New 5D3 Raw video samples mind blowing!
« on: May 14, 2013, 03:11:17 AM »
http://www.eoshd.com/content/10324/big-news-hands-on-with-continuous-raw-recording-on-canon-5d-mark-iii

He updated the samples! Quality is just insane.

Just like that this may have become the best video DSLR ever. By MILES. And even outdo many of the more (even much more) expensive mid-tier video offerings.

2165
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Mark III with Continuous RAW Video Recording
« on: May 13, 2013, 09:12:57 PM »
The A/B test to do is the RAW version vs. the HDMI out using Cinestyle, recorded to the Ninja 2 in 220Mbps ProRes HQ and graded in post with the proper LUT. Because anyone who cares about getting the most IQ out of the camera will be using that setup (or something very similar) rather than internal...of course the RAW is going to kill the miserable internal codec.

And BTW, all my testing has repeatedly shown ALL-I and IPB are 100% identical IQ on the 5D3 internal. Haven't seen anything credible to refute that...I think it's just Mbps marketing to counter the GH2 hack.

That is alot of misinfo.

1. The internal codec isn't what does much damage. Point at a static scene and record with Ninja 2 at ProRes HQ and record internally 1.2.1 and there is NOT much difference you can see at all. A little but it is all very subtle to be honest. It's vastly smaller compared to the difference between what this ML recorded stuff looks like compared to normally internally recorded video.

2. For static scenes or ones with just bits moving around in the frame all-i and IPB are pretty much the same and all-i is just a horrible waste of space, perhaps worse if anything. If you pan around or the entire scene is changing frame to frame then ipb totally falls apart and all-i holds up much better (as does say pro res on ninja 2).

Please. I'm not the source of misinfo, I post to keep people honest. I have done quite scientific tests with the 5d3 and Ninja 2 (and the C100) to know very well what I am talking about, compared to the legions of people who have no idea how to properly ask these questions much less answer them. And dear Andrew is too animated in his disdain for Canon to claim any credibility on the matter if that's your authority.

For the hundredth time, video desperately needs an independent lab to publish fully controlled test charts and the like for us to work off objectively. A bunch of well-meaning enthusiasts and blowhards does not suffice. I will test the ML implementations when I get a fast card to do so and I will report back. While not a common net.idiot I am not a substitute for a lab either.

I compared them all myself. All-i vs IPB is hugely different if there are major frame to frame changes (granted during such motions the eye isn't as adept at noticing things are wrong at full speed) although for static yeah not much. Ninja 2 did way better than IPB for frames that huge changes as well (didn't get to compare to all-i for that yet) but for static stuff it doesn't look so different and even for most grading it doesn't seem super different yet, better but it's modest. These ML RAW video samples I mean wow the difference leaps out at you and hits you over the head.

2166
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Mark III with Continuous RAW Video Recording
« on: May 13, 2013, 08:38:10 PM »
I have a basic question: Which software can process the 5D3 RAW movie files? Can Adobe Premiere do this? Thanks

first raw2dng then into After Effects as a batch load and then written out as an uncompressed video file and then into Premiere  ;D. There are probably other possible steps to take after raw2dng.

2167
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Mark III with Continuous RAW Video Recording
« on: May 13, 2013, 05:07:34 PM »
I am always hesitant to post new ML features from the dev stage here because general users aren't advised to use the stuff yet - but since the news ended up here anyway:

Another great feature of this discovery is the raw histogram which will let you actually see if anything is under- or overexposed in raw and not just in jpeg like with the vanilla Canon fw.

Wait. Is the Trammel Hudson heavily involved with all of this the very same famed hacker of old Atari 8 bit days Tram Hudson??

2168
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Mark III with Continuous RAW Video Recording
« on: May 13, 2013, 04:24:13 PM »
I've been poking around. Apparently the Lexar 1000x cf 64GB cards are 'on sale' now for about $299.

Hmm...I wonder if it might be a good idea to pick up one of these in anticipation of ML raw video coming online soon.

It isn't like I couldn't be using it right now for normal video/stills photography.....

Hm......


cayenne

The two packs of 32GB cards are less, 64GB total for $250.

2169
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Mark III with Continuous RAW Video Recording
« on: May 13, 2013, 03:08:48 PM »
14-bit RAW on Canon 5D Mark III vs. factory default - Night Image Quality & Dynamic Range on Vimeo

The A/B test to do is the RAW version vs. the HDMI out using Cinestyle, recorded to the Ninja 2 in 220Mbps ProRes HQ and graded in post with the proper LUT. Because anyone who cares about getting the most IQ out of the camera will be using that setup (or something very similar) rather than internal...of course the RAW is going to kill the miserable internal codec.

And BTW, all my testing has repeatedly shown ALL-I and IPB are 100% identical IQ on the 5D3 internal. Haven't seen anything credible to refute that...I think it's just Mbps marketing to counter the GH2 hack.

That is alot of misinfo.

1. The internal codec isn't what does much damage. Point at a static scene and record with Ninja 2 at ProRes HQ and record internally 1.2.1 and there is NOT much difference you can see at all. A little but it is all very subtle to be honest. It's vastly smaller compared to the difference between what this ML recorded stuff looks like compared to normally internally recorded video.

2. For static scenes or ones with just bits moving around in the frame all-i and IPB are pretty much the same and all-i is just a horrible waste of space, perhaps worse if anything. If you pan around or the entire scene is changing frame to frame then ipb totally falls apart and all-i holds up much better (as does say pro res on ninja 2).

2170
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Mark III with Continuous RAW Video Recording
« on: May 13, 2013, 02:56:54 PM »
Looking forward to this once there are faster and more affordable cards in the next year or so.  Canon more than likely had zero involvement with this, it was discovered on accident while creating a histogram for RAW photography.  Seeing this live DNG feed through the HDMI is not possible, this has been discussed extensively on the Magic Lantern forums.  Heat is also not so much of an issue because the sensor is already pushing out the RAW feed.

BMCC will still be the way to go for RAW video due to it being more reliable and the easier workflow with compressed RAW, but this is a gamechanger for people on a budget or hobbyists.

I have read about the DNG feed not being able to be fed through the HDMI, but, I wonder if this 'raw' feed discovered here could be sent through the cable?

After all, it is just data...it would be the bee's knees (did I just really say that?) if they could push this data out of the HDMI, or maybe even the USB connection to the camera, to an external recorder.

At that point, all bets are off on this I'd say....

C

That would be awesome if they could get a super crisp 1920x1080 with slightly better DR over the HDMI, pu tthat into a ninja 2 and it would be quite practical. Of course to a CF card and RAW would be best, but you could have a half way there option that would be easier to use when you value that more.

2171
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Mark III with Continuous RAW Video Recording
« on: May 13, 2013, 02:55:20 PM »
and might be better than the C300 and definitely better than the BlackMagic Cinema Camera.

The BMCC still has more than a stop better DR (than the 5D3), and as of now, more resolution for continuous shooting. And while the c300 is a much easier camera to use, BMCC's best image blows the c300 out of the water.

Oh please not more BMCC Koolaid. The C300 image (especially recorded externally) is one of the cleanest 1080p images in the entire business with virtually no moire or false color artifacts and lovely color science. The BMCC fanboys (some of whom are or were apparently secretly in the employ of Blackmagic Design) keep repeating nonsense but repeating something ad nauseum does not make it true. IQ test: hand a better DP (who isn't taking money or gear from either company, and who didn't learn what they know from reading online forums) a C300 and a BMCC and see which one s/he hands to the intern to shoot BTS.

Yes even Andrew (who I think, to his credit, is too random a figure for anyone to consider buying off) has declared the BMCC dead with this new hack. It's just about as annoying to use as RAW on a BMCC and the 5d3's a much better sensor and camera. I think even the official HDMI out from the 5D3 recorded into a Ninja 2 is a superior image to BMCC RAW.

RAW is really not all that as so many people insist. If the only choice is between RAW and JPEG, ok, we all choose RAW. But ProRes 422 HQ 10 bit with a log gamma is every bit as good as RAW in practice, and vastly more practical. JPEG (and the video version MJPEG) is very lossy like H.264 is, and 4:2:0 AVCHD is very constricting in post. But the system we have working today with the 5D3, recording the entire pixel-binned sensor in 8 bit 422 with Cinestyle onto a Ninja 2 in ProRes HQ is quite a nice image. (Though not nearly as nice, lowlight or otherwise, as the C series image externally recorded.)

This RAW hack will give only an incremental improvement over that, in one of two ways. You will get 12 bit color but still it will be subsampled to 4:2:2 (not exactly RAW in my book, which I define as "a lossless record of all sensor information"). And your dynamic range will be stored in full fidelity 14 bit as opposed to being mapped to a gamma...gaining you about 1 stop in practice and a bit less propensity for banding than using the Cinestyle/Ninja approach. Worth constantly swapping costly CF cards and then having huge post hassles for? Maybe in an extreme HDR run-n-gun situation where it would be more hassle to use gels/lights/reflectors/butterflies to control DR.

The other thing against this hack is, if they are using the full sensor, they must be downsampling (binning?) to 1080p or similar resolutions. Which will give at least some of the 5D3 soft video look. Either that or they are cropping (and I understand at least in some settings they are) to the native resolution of the sensor. This cropping to 1:1 pixel is going to be terribly noisy and will require NR in post. You can also get this cropping/digital zoom trick with the current HDMI out, by zooming in 5x or 10x in focus assist and recording the zoomed image (which comes out 4:3 but you can crop in post) and it is noisy too.



The quality of the samples posted here looks amazing. I don't know why you are talking about softness and noise. Look at the comparisons, in both cases it's way better than recording to camera internally through normal software or through recording over HDMI to Ninja2 (in fact it is the latter internal vs Ninja 2 where the difference is very slight; ML vs not using ML is huge).

2173
Insane!!
And look at this:
14-bit RAW on Canon 5D Mark III vs. factory default - Night Image Quality & Dynamic Range on Vimeo

and:
http://www.eoshd.com/content/10324/big-news-hands-on-with-continuous-raw-recording-on-canon-5d-mark-iii


Good god man Canon fire your marketing droids!! The 5D3 would still be out of stock to this day if you had released doing all it could a year ago. Black Magic may have folded before even trying. Etc.

But man those Canon engineers. What amazing hardware! This is just awesome! 5D3 is pretty amazing in the end isn't it.

2175
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Mark III with Continuous RAW Video Recording
« on: May 13, 2013, 12:59:14 PM »
Holy crap! Beyond speechless!
AWESOME NEWS!!!!




(How the holy heck is that hackers with no documentation or even access to Digic can pull this off in like 3 weeks and Canon has had this locked away for over a year??

Man if they released the camera like this this thing would've still be permanently out of stock to this very day and made 5D2 sales look like a joke! There wasn't even remote competition for this when the 5D3 had first been released! Black Magic may not even have gotten off the ground.)

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