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Messages - ahsanford

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121
Lenses / Re: UV filter on the new 16-35 f/4?
« on: July 12, 2014, 11:43:38 AM »
The XS-Pro mount is slim, but with a front thread.

According to TDP, a standard B+W UV (F-Pro) does not cause additional vignetting, and it's cheaper...

+1 and confirmed. 

I just tried a standard (i.e. not slim) 77mm B+W UV on my new 16-35 F/4L IS and it does not vignette, even at 16mm.  I'd buy the standard one for best lens cap attachment.

This is the exact one I tried:

BWUVMC77      77mm UV Haze MRC 010M Filter

For me, that means not buying one at all, as I have at least one (maybe 2) surplus 77mm F-Pro MRC UV filters.  One came from the 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II, which surprisingly for a telezoom lens does have additional vignetting with an F-Pro mount, so I replaced it with a 77mm XS-Pro.

Disclaimer:  my feedback was from a quick F/8 shot against a white wall with no peripheral illumination enabled. I checked at 1x in the corners and saw no hard obstruction in the field of view at 16mm.

Non-pro question: I only thought filter rings were a threat to obstruct the field of view with an abrupt black corner.  But can they also create a more gradual darkening like shooting a lens wide open?

- A

122
Lenses / Re: UV filter on the new 16-35 f/4?
« on: July 12, 2014, 11:25:27 AM »
The XS-Pro mount is slim, but with a front thread.

According to TDP, a standard B+W UV (F-Pro) does not cause additional vignetting, and it's cheaper...

+1 and confirmed. 

I just tried a standard (i.e. not slim) 77mm B+W UV on my new 16-35 F/4L IS and it does not vignette, even at 16mm.  I'd buy the standard one for best lens cap attachment.

This is the exact one I tried:

BWUVMC77      77mm UV Haze MRC 010M Filter

- A

123
Lenses / Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« on: July 09, 2014, 11:42:15 AM »

Just pulled the trigger today on this new lens.  I haven't had an ultrawide in my arsenal since I made the move to FF two years ago, so I am really looking forward to this.

Thanks for all the feedback, gang.  Much appreciated.

- A
I don't think you'll regret it - I'm having a lot of fun with it!  My latest is trying photos of my cats (they are somewhat willing subjects) in very low light to try out the IS, which works very well.

Yeah...  I got this lens for landscape work, but what did I do when my rental arrived?  I insisted upon a cow-in-the-pasture UWA closeup. 

I am a child.

- A

124
Lenses / Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« on: July 08, 2014, 06:52:23 PM »

Just pulled the trigger today on this new lens.  I haven't had an ultrawide in my arsenal since I made the move to FF two years ago, so I am really looking forward to this.

Thanks for all the feedback, gang.  Much appreciated.

- A

125
EOS Bodies / Re: Eos7D mk2, How EXCITED will you be if . . .?
« on: July 07, 2014, 08:56:03 PM »

I'd thought we'd start the week looking forward to something.  What features / performance levels would get you excited about the 7D2? 

I want a positive statement from you about what would legitimately fire you up to own a 7D2.   No snarky "APS-C is not for me so I'll say 'A 50 MP FF sensor', ha ha" stuff.  Seriously, what would get you excited when the 7D2 announcement comes?

- A

Disclaimer:  I'm not trying poke fun at Ivan's original thread so much as build some excitement around a release.  Mondays need positive thoughts because they are, in fact, Mondays.

...A 50MP APS-C sensor... Seriously, the pixel density on that would be amazing.

I was going to say "No requests for APS-H" but then I knew everyone would ask for it. 

We forum dwellers do not like to color within the lines, do we?   :P

- A

126
EOS Bodies / Re: Eos7D mk2, How EXCITED will you be if . . .?
« on: July 07, 2014, 08:42:51 PM »
I'm much more inclined to believe Canon will do to the 7DII pricing what they did to the 5DIII pricing- add on $1000 bucks to the price of the predecessor.

$2499 at start.

They raised the 5-series price substantially, which left a gap to be filled by the 6D.  With what will Canon fill the $1500 gap between the $1K 70D and your proposed 250% higher-priced 7D?  There may be quite a few 7D owners who would upgrade to a 7DII...but there's a far larger customer base of Rebel/xxxD and xxD owners that Canon would like to see upgrade, and a >$1800 7DII will preclude most of that.

$1699 at launch.

Neuro, you're right on the key question -- is this the step-up body for the Rebel masses, or is this the super high end crop tool sports/wildlife people want?

If it's the former, I think they'll nerf the camera from getting all of the 5D3's hand-me-down upgrades from the 1Dx (perhaps have a nicer-but-not-1DX/5D3-nicer AF system) and keep the price low like you said.

But if it's the latter, it could be a "crop 5D3" with the great 1DX/5D3 AF system and a higher burst rate.  That camera will be north of $2k.

- A

127
EOS Bodies / Re: Eos7D mk2, How EXCITED will you be if . . .?
« on: July 07, 2014, 08:37:07 PM »
A sub-$2000 7DII doesn't sound realistic to me. Cheaper than the 6D? Why would they do that? Those 2 cameras seem targeted at quite different users. 6D is the entry-level full frame for people who want to get their feet wet; 7D is the top-of-the-line crop body for people who want to shoot quick action and have some built in reach. I'm much more inclined to believe Canon will do to the 7DII pricing what they did to the 5DIII pricing- add on $1000 bucks to the price of the predecessor.

$2499 at start.

Agree.  Reasonable guess assuming solid specs are announced.

Some folks can't wrap their heads around how a crop could ever cost more than a relatively contemporary FF camera.  But consider the delta in cost between the 6D and 5D3.  Think about what features drive that difference:

  • 5D3's much more comprehensive AF system, taken from the 1DX
  • 5D3 can perform shots at 1/8000 shutter speed
  • 5D3 has a 100% viewfinder
  • 5D3 has +1.5 fps

And, just for the sake of argument, let's say the entire difference in price between the 5D3 and 6D -- some $1500 -- was due to just those feature differences above. 

Now ask yourself, really crudely:  how many of the above categories -- AF system, max shutter speed, VF coverage and burst rate -- will the 7D2 fall on the 5D3 side versus the 6D side?  My money on the 7D2 will be that all four of those will be on the high end, i.e. the on the +$1500 camera side of things.

Now replace 5D3 with 7D2, and replace 6D with 70D and re-run the value proposition.  Looks like the 7D2 would represent a comprehensive upgrade over the 70D. Then it's easy to see the 7D2's asking price climbing to new heights.

Granted, the math doesn't work exactly work that way (and a $1500 delta in the crop world is a bit crazy), but surely you get my point.  Not all the cost/value of the body is in the sensor.  AF systems, burst rate, etc. differentiate the product lines and provide value to shooters.  They, in turn, want that and will pony up the bucks for it. 

So I could easily see the 7D2 price eclipse the 6D price, eclipse $2k, etc.

- A

128
EOS Bodies / Re: Eos7D mk2, How EXCITED will you be if . . .?
« on: July 07, 2014, 06:55:38 PM »
Yup.  I'm on record as saying I'd pay $3-4K for a 5DIII in crop factor form and no ISO/image quality penalty.  I have a 7D and a 5DIII and the 7D sits unused, the 5D is that much better.

HA!  I knew you people were out there.   :D


Don't get me wrong, the 7D is a capable camera, I think it gets beat up a bit too much on the forums.  It's just that the 5D is better.  I'm really hoping that the 7DII is like a 5DIII w/ a 1.6x TC that doesn't take a stop of light and doesn't drop the image quality.  That would be worth a lot to anyone who does wildlife, especially birds.

But I think you realize the madness of Canon were they to offer it.  Even if they could pull off a 'crop 5D3' with the same IQ, to do so would damage their FF body sales and the sale of their superteles.  People could simply do more (on the long end) with less gear.  Canon probably does not want that.   :P

Further, I'm not sure a crop sensor can actually beat a relatively contemporary FF sensor like the 5D3 or 6D. 

So the question becomes, how close does the 7D2 IQ have to be to that of the 6D or 5D3 to have you opt for that instead of FF?

- A

129
EOS Bodies / Re: Eos7D mk2, How EXCITED will you be if . . .?
« on: July 07, 2014, 04:14:03 PM »

I hate to do this, but I might start sounding like a microFourThirds fanboy at this point. The arguments for choosing crop over full frame are similar to those thrown by MFT to APS-C. For a given "reach", the crop sensor is just better optimised. On full frame you'd need silly big (and expensive) lenses. Even if people could afford them, they wouldn't want to carry it! Why not ever smaller? I have to say the Nikon 1 with native 70-300 lens sounds like an interesting reach combination, but I'm not sold on its overall performance.


Forget fanboyism -- this is a debate that has raged for ages.  How much do you want to spend / lug around versus how nice you want your shots to come out is an ancient debate in these forums.

And you're not alone in wanting to have a specific sweet spot of sensor size / gear size / cost to IQ.  Heck, APS-H guys are like the folks who used to sleep in bed with their Amiga computers after they were discontinued.  Love is not love which alters when it alteration finds. :D

I just think the argument has sublimed above basic forum back and forth and become one of those religiously held beliefs we won't ever sway on, like to use / not use UV filters, the value of IS on wide angle lenses, etc.

- A

130
Lenses / Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« on: July 07, 2014, 04:06:55 PM »
Great thread, gang!  Thanks a lot.

If you haven't already seen Mackguyver's personal review with copious comparisons for download, please go here and read all about it.  It's a very nice piece of work on this part:

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=21691.0

- A

131
EOS Bodies / Re: Eos7D mk2, How EXCITED will you be if . . .?
« on: July 07, 2014, 04:03:45 PM »
...the birding camera that lets you just bring the 400 prime instead of a 1Dx and a 600 prime, 10 FPS with 2 stops better low light performance, etc.

Sounds great for consumers. I'm not so sure it would sound great to the bean counters at Canon HQ.

2 stops better lowlight performance?  That loud buzzing sound you hear is your alarm clock, time for the dream to end….  ;)

Neuro, I'm not saying we're going to get all those nice things in the 7D2, but some combination of them might occur to keep the price up.

And I'm not ever saying a crop with lens X is going to deliver the same IQ as a contemporary FF sensor and a 1.6X lens attached.  But if it were close, I'd see people sizing up the 'half the total cost  / half the total weight' argument and possibly staying in the crop universe.

Again, I represent such a niche piece of Canon's business that I wonder why I even stick up for them -- heck, I'm not even one of them!  I'm not a wildlife / birder guy at all, but I have friends who shoot sports and wildlife who make camera acquisitions in much more modest chunks, like $1-3k additions at a time.  Climbing Mount Full-Frame / Supertele is a mountain they will never climb, so a 7D2 (or Pentax?) is their big opportunity to improve their world in a reasonably sized one-off spend.

I just think value propositions are more than just IQ and cost, and crop has an interesting duckbill platypus of a value proposition at the whacko long end of focal lengths.  Some folks live and die by it.

- A

132
EOS Bodies / Re: Eos7D mk2, How EXCITED will you be if . . .?
« on: July 07, 2014, 02:57:37 PM »
I think if the new 7DII was anything like approaching the price of the 5DIII it would lose it's whole raison d'etre. When sitting in a range with FF cameras - especially fast ones like the 5DIII - crop has to be cheaper, otherwise it loses it's ace card. I suppose it could be marketed a little more expensive than the 6D without upsetting the range, as the two will be completely different cameras. Personally I still think it will (eventually) sit just under the 6D price.

I'm not saying that price will be there that long.  I could see (if loaded feature-wise) the 7D2 starting at $2299 for early adopters and then dropping sub-$2k quickly thereafter. 

Regarding the notion '6D will never cost less than a 7D2', consider:

  • Serious 7D shooters are not necessarily amateurs on tight budgets.  I still contend that serious crop-shooters (lovingly clinging to their original 7D bodies) have invested far far far far far more dollars in glass and other gear than 6D shooters, so outpricing the 6D (even considerably) is not unreasonable.
     
  • The 6D is a nice rig but it's an entry-level FF rig that lacks a lot of bells and whistles.  The 7D2 likely will not.  It's a pro crop body.  If that sentence seems a contradiction to some folks, they may not understand the notion that crop is a strength and not a weakness to some shooters.  These folks pay great money for reach.

  • The 6D continues to steadily drop in price.  It could be down around $1600-1700 by the time the 7D2 is announced.

I'm not throwing the gauntlet down and saying the 7D2 must cost a fortune, but if it's the camera some folks want -- the birding camera that lets you just bring the 400 prime instead of a 1Dx and a 600 prime, 10 FPS with 2 stops better low light performance, etc. -- you could imagine it commanding a high price.

But they may just offer a 7D2 that's an original 7D with better AF and one stop better in low light.  That camera will be cheaper than a 6D for sure.

- A

133
EOS Bodies / Re: Eos7D mk2, How EXCITED will you be if . . .?
« on: July 07, 2014, 01:52:32 PM »
16 to 24 MP, but FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAST (10 fps) and with 1 stop improvement in low light ability (I judge that the 6D has a 2 stop advantage over the 60D of the same sensor vintage). Small pro-grade weather-sealed body, under 900 grams. Giant buffer, 30 RAW at 10 fps. 1DX/5D3 focusing system, fewer points, perhaps, but similar algorithms. AF at f/8. Costs the same or less than the 6D.

I've seen some cost comments from folks. I know that this is a thread about positivity, but sub $2k, sub 6D pricing may be a tough get depending on how 'pro' this body is designed.

As I've said many times in this forum, for some people, the reach of APS-C is vital to what they do (BIF people come to mind).  To those folks, crop is a really high-quality 1.6x T/C without the T/C headaches of AF responsiveness or significantly lessened IQ.  To those folks, the length upside lets them not have to buy a $10k+ lens to get their shots or for those who do have that money, it lets those great lenses reach even further.  To those folks, Canon could eeeeeeasily get above $2k for this new body.

I don't want to be a pessimist, but I kind of want this thing to be so good it's worth over $2k.  I'll say it:  if it's a $1,599 camera, it probably won't be so compelling performance wise for me.

- A 

134
Lenses / Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« on: July 07, 2014, 01:34:17 PM »
And Bryan Carnathan has obtained and tested a second 16-35 F/4L IS lens.  It's not super-obvious how to find this on his site, so I've made a link for comparing the two:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=949&Camera=453&Sample=1&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=949&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

- A

135
Lenses / Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS - Mackguyver's Review
« on: July 07, 2014, 01:30:17 PM »

Thanks for posting -- the hard work is appreciated!

- A

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