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Messages - ahsanford

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EOS Bodies / Re: How does the reveal of the final 7D2 specs make you feel?
« on: September 11, 2014, 09:00:05 PM »

Woohoo!  100+ responses to the poll!

Nice work, everyone.

- A

EOS Bodies / Re: How does the reveal of the final 7D2 specs make you feel?
« on: September 11, 2014, 06:36:24 PM »
Posted this in another thread, sums up how I feel:

I shoot wildlife/sports/action photography.  I use a T2i right now when I'm shooting with a crop.  Know why?  My glass is all Canon.  If it wasn't for that I'd have switched.  The 70D offers absolutely no improvement in image quality over the T2i.  It's the same flippin sensor, just using new technologies to squeeze a .001% image quality improvement out of it.  Now this is coming out with the SAME F'ING SENSOR.   The sensor is about 80% of the reason you'd buy a camera, once you choose your subject matter.   The 7Dii is going to be a glorified T2i. Same old ancient sensor technology, with a few useless bells & whistles, none of which get down to the root: THEY HAVEN'T MADE A SINGLE INNOVATION IN SENSOR TECHNOLOGY IN YEARS. It's the same mediocre sensor, just rehashed.    This is why they're starting to, or will continue to lose market share to other companies.  Absolutely insane that it took a half decade to refresh, and it's basically going to be the exact same camera with the exact same sensor, just with a tiiiiny bit extra squeezed out of that sensor.  Absolute garbage.  I can't tell you how pissed off I am right now.

I hear you, I do.  But let me understand the train of thought:

T2i = 18 MP sensor
70D = 20.2 MP sensor (absolutely not the same sensor)

However, at least for noise, I do agree there isn't much difference between the two:

But that's the T2i vs. the 70D.  Just because the new 7D2 sensor is 20.2 MP doesn't mean that it's the same one.

Again, we don't know the low light performance of this new sensor.  Unless we have confirmation from an interview with a Chuck Westfall that it is in fact the same (not gonna happen) or a teardown that it's the same component (and I'm sure there's more to it than just the sensor itself), we don't know what we're dealing with here.  Sensor performance is not something a spec sheet will tell us.  So we have to let the Bryan Carnathans of the world shoot the samples with the 7D2 (like the ones I linked) and then we'll know for sure.

But yeah, if I was in the market for a new APS-C body, the name 7D2 alone isn't enough to get my money -- especially based on Canon's APS-C sensor track record.  I would want to see reviews, specifically noise information.

- A

EOS Bodies / Re: How does the reveal of the final 7D2 specs make you feel?
« on: September 11, 2014, 05:13:02 PM »
Exactly! OMG we have that 18Mpx sensor in lowest model. Does Canon want to pretend that two more megapixels and some AF upgrades and circuity for these is normal after 5 or more like nearly 8 years of that sensor tech birth?, DOH....

Professional photographers and crazy sports/birding/wildlife enthusiasts -- who this camera is being made for -- care far less about pixel counts than you do.  Resolution matters, but low light performance, burst, AF and build quality matter as well.

I'm not defending Canon here (the spec list is 'sensibly better' but not earth-shaking), but if I was a current Canon 7D user, the new 7D2 would offer the following improvements:

  • A world class AF system on many levels
  • 10 fps
  • A very nice video option that should roundly satisfy casual video people:  all sorts of video AF options for those who are not comfortable with manual focusing
  • Some amount of low light improvement.  As said before, we don't know how much, but it's been five years...

And that's worth $1500-2000 to them, I am certain of that.

Consider the alternatives:

  • Migrate to the competitive similar option:  Nikon D7100 and all new lenses.  Someone run the numbers for me on that, assuming you have to replace 3-4 lenses.  I'm guessing you'd be paying the equivalent of 1DX body money to get a better (?) camera.  Fail.  No one will do this other than those that like to burn money.
  • Migrate to Canon full frame and need a fair amount pricier new lenses to recoup the length you've lost.  A lot of shooters make that jump at some point in their lives, but 'reach' shooters are somewhat hosed here.  if you were shooting a 100-400L or 300L prime on a 7D, reproducing that length in FF terms without needing a teleconverter is a massive inflection point for cost.
  • Leave SLRs behind and pick up a cool/small/impressive Sony, Fuji or Olympus mirrorless rig.  If you leave a sophisticated tool like a 7D for mirrorless, you probably didn't need the 7D in the first place.  I am not knocking mirrorless, not at all -- I just think the 7D is a birding/wildlife/sports camera and mirrorless is many things... but it isn't a birding/wildlife/sports platform.

Again, I'm not defending Canon so much as state that in this specific segment in this specific need (flagship-level crop body, reach shooters, supertele owners, etc.), Canon will not lose a soul here unless they do something absolutely idiotic with price.

- A

EOS Bodies / Re: How does the reveal of the final 7D2 specs make you feel?
« on: September 11, 2014, 02:49:40 PM »
It makes me feel angry and betrayed.  Just kidding.  In reality it makes me wonder if I want to go back to crop.  If it turns out to be a mini 1D X with decent IQ at ISO 3200 and below, I might have to give it a try.  I liked the 7D a lot, but the performance at ISO 1600+ just didn't do it for me.

+1.  The spec tells you nothing about the IQ at ISO 1600.   Need a review to see if it has improved to a useable level.


We have no idea what the low light capabilities are.  ISO limits are not reflective of noise levels.

My guess is:  one stop improvement over the 7D will see many folks get angry (it's been five years!), two stops will have them say "ok, it's an improvement" and three will have them jumping for joy. 

My friend is a diehard 7D user who wants the 7D2 ISO 3200 shots to be as clean as his ISO 800 shots are today.  That's a reasonable expectation to me.

- A

EOS Bodies / Re: How does the reveal of the final 7D2 specs make you feel?
« on: September 11, 2014, 02:45:58 PM »
it makes me feel ... "i told you so".
Another fairly minimal iteration of a mirrorslapper. So little progress after 5 years. Not even WiFi built in.  ::)

Not to spar with a mirrorless fan (b/c I find mirrorless intriguing), but I don't see many Sony Alpha, Olympus, or Fuji wildlife or sports specialists.  :P

- A

EOS Bodies / Re: How does the reveal of the final 7D2 specs make you feel?
« on: September 11, 2014, 02:03:46 PM »
Wait, where's the option for "I have an arbitrary bias and will threaten to move to Nikon, but, in reality I'm either not currently with Canon or would never buy/shoot in this price/spec range"?

Or was that "Laughable.  On aggregate, these specs are a day late and a dollar short compared to what Canon's competitors are offering."


I voted 'what I was expecting' but I wanted to get a read of the most incendiary alpha-fanboys and DXO believers vs. the most dyed-in-the-wool Canon believers.

- A

EOS Bodies / Re: How does the reveal of the final 7D2 specs make you feel?
« on: September 11, 2014, 01:26:54 PM »
Good specs, it will sell well.  It certainly looks like the best action-oriented APS-C camera on the market today. 

I'm impressed with the 65 cross-type AF points.


Despite my rant about the lack of 'new', I admit the AF alone is worth the upgrade.   I felt the same way about the 5D2 --> 5D3 AF improvements.   For current 7D users shooting sports and wildlife, their keeper rate should see a noticeable bump in the right direction.

- A

EOS Bodies / Re: How does the reveal of the final 7D2 specs make you feel?
« on: September 11, 2014, 01:23:51 PM »
How much better can you get a sports orientated cam to be? I mean, I'm no sports shooter but I'd imagine you would be at ISO 400 or higher most of the time to get some DOF and Up the Shutter Speed. ISO performance would be more important than DR in a cam like this. It has the most Advanced AF on paper ever on APS-C, It shoots as fast as a 1D4, it's much lighter than a 1D4, it has awesome Video DPAF and at a price point that's reasonable.

It by all means is a worthy successor to the 7D and will be the semi-pro sports cam to beat.

I think there is a confluence of matters...

  • A belief or perception that Canon's sensors have been lacking to SoNikony on the MP and dynamic range front
  • Alpha-fanboys, i.e. young men who needs to have/be/believe/know they have the 'best' tech
  • A need for non-Alpha-fanboys to believe that 'their' company is highly innovative
  • The fact that the 7D is five years old and we'd all expect things to categorically improve over five years time

...and you have a stew of different people with a beef -- legitimate or otherwise -- that Canon has only incrementally improved the bar when they have the time and ability to do much, much more.

I am far far far less concerned about Canon's innovation reputation or where it sits in some awesomeness pecking order. 

What I am concerned is how five years can go buy and all we might see for it is a somewhat ported AF system, +2 fps, +2 MP, and perhaps a stop better (maybe 2?) of low light performance.  I'm not disappointed so much as bummed at the lack of 'better' as a function of time

I hope there is more on announcement day, quite honestly.  A new feature, a great tech development, etc. -- we shall see.

- A

EOS Bodies / Re: How does the reveal of the final 7D2 specs make you feel?
« on: September 11, 2014, 11:56:01 AM »

Marsu -- Agree.  To try to do this without waves of questions to vet the usefulness vs. the value vs. the excitement vs. the fanboyism is a fool's errand, but I thought I'd try.

- A

EOS Bodies / How does the reveal of the final 7D2 specs make you feel?
« on: September 11, 2014, 11:40:58 AM »
We've finally seen what are believed to be the final 7D2 specs:

So there it is.  It's Christmas morning, and you finally got to open your present after ages of speculating.  How are you feeling?

- A

Lenses / Re: DXOMark Reviews Zeiss Otus 85mm f/1.4
« on: September 10, 2014, 12:56:33 PM »
Has anyone noticed that the 'true' max apertures as indicate by the Tstop is nowhere near the manufacturers claim? The Zeis is closer to a f1.8 lens than f1.4 and the rest fare no better....

Effectively, focal length is 'sort of' right and the Tstop is usually slightly off.  Pricier cinema lenses are more on-point for these metrics, I believe.

Roger Cicala comments on this at times, as he did here:

- A

Lenses / Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« on: September 10, 2014, 12:46:21 PM »
...and the last of the major reviews is in:



Adding stabilization in a lens like this is targeting videographers more than stills photographers, where the wide field of view and steadying effect can be put to good use, but it’s a welcome addition all the same. The imaging performance is good, very good in fact, but it’s not without some shortcomings, particularly at the longer end where field curvature provides some unexpected results. Once those are understood and either avoided or worked around, the lens can be a very satisfying performer and at $1,199 this new model doesn’t seem over priced.

But to DXO, we're still on the overall 'poor' end of the scale.  If the sensor only had more pixels, this lens would score higher...  Ridiculous.

Those same jokers gave the new 85mm Otus a score of 38 for Canon and a score of 49 for Nikon based solely on the D800/800E/810's higher resolving power.  Rubbish.

- A

Lenses / Re: DXOMark Reviews Zeiss Otus 85mm f/1.4
« on: September 10, 2014, 12:40:27 PM »

Everyone seems to have missed the really fun DXO comparison.  The CR guy posted all the Canon mount lenses on Canon body data, but look at the side by side with the Otus on a Nikon body. 

Effectively, the lens goes from a score of 38 to 49 solely based on the increased resolving power of the Nikon.  See attached.

Further:  "It’s also rather large and bulky (although it’s remarkably well balanced on the D800 models)"  Because the 5D3 (by exclusion) is some sort of ergonomic train wreck, right?    >:(

Title of Nikon + Otus review = "Outstanding performance"

Title of Canon + Otus review = "Sharpness limited by sensor"

Though the second statement is potentially fairly made point -- that the lens can outresolve the Canon sensor -- the tone of the words is damning.  Nice work, DXO, you have again failed to earn any respect as a neutral review source.

- A

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Zeiss Otus 1.4/85: The New World-Class Lens
« on: September 08, 2014, 04:28:32 PM »
Apparently Zeiss (unlike Canon or Sigma [cough]) has had the vision to get early copies of this new lens out to neutral photographers for review.  Two links worth checking out:



Spoiler -- TDP hasn't had a review yet, but clearly Bryan Carnathan has had the lens in his possession long enough to drum up these comparison shots.  I look forward to his review... even if I'll never buy a manual focus lens.  :D

- A

FYI, this is the primary reason I got the 135L. If I need a longer lens (and in situations like this I do), and the 70-200 is a bit much to carry, the 135L is the perfect substitute if not better in certain situations.

Yeah, I have the 100L instead for similar reasons (also for macro).  It's a great substitute for portraiture. 

But again, I'm a little leery to slap in a prime and miss something happening, esp. in a crowded place where the old prime lens 'move your feet' axiom becomes harder to pull off.

- A

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