December 18, 2014, 06:53:07 AM

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Messages - RustyTheGeek

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1

As for holding cash before holding camera, I like the idea but again, most buyers would be suspicious (and rightly so) that I would do the very same thing, run with the cash while they sit there with a camera box full of newspapers or a brick.


What I was looking for was the same thing as the return policy.  When I ask people about that I don't expect to use it, I'm gauging their lack of douche-baggery.  If someone says "sure, yeah, you want to try and you'll bring it back exactly the same?  OK."  then I know they are real.  Even if they put up a fight and then they agree, they are real.

So on the cash thing if people said "hell no, I want to see it before you see the cash", they are not real.  If they are willing to do the cash up front, they are real.

That's how it worked when I bought/sold motorcycles.  No cash, no ride.  In fact the rule was you give me the cash and your drivers license, then you go take a ride.  Not before.

I follow you.  And I agree.  I would discuss things first, feel out the buyer and in general, once I feel confident I am dealing with someone trustworthy, I normally agree to a return and I would explain what I look for if it were to happen.  And if the camera is brand new, I might ask for a small return fee since it would be used after the fact.  All that is legit and reasonable for both parties.

As for the cash holding thing, you gotta admit that riding a motorcycle off into the sunset pretty much requires a cash in hand thing up front.  After all, the item is literally leaving your sight and might never return or be crashed.  But two people sitting at a table indoors with a small box, the practice could be considered somewhat optional.  But I'm not totally disagreeing with you, esp in light of what just happened to me.

Again, my hope is that I learn/practice a better method going forward and everyone else reading this can improve their strategy at the same time.  Then my loss will not have been in vain.   ;)

2
I've bought stuff off of craigslist for years with no problems.  I've sold some stuff but mostly been a buyer.

One way to weed out scammers, again as a buyer, is to ask for a 48 hour return option provided it is in identical condition.  You aren't going to actually return it, you just want to see how they react.  I bought my 400mm DO for $4200 off of craigslist a few years ago.  I ran that idea up the flag pole and he wasn't thrilled but agreed.

I wish I had more advice on the selling side, I've sort of given up selling stuff, I live in a remote area with tractors and cameras, I don't want people coming to my house.  These days I give stuff away to friends in need rather than sell it but I'll be joining your ranks to sell my 400mm DO to help fund the purchase of the mark II.  So I'll be watching this thread for ideas.

Perhaps on the selling side you try this (from my motorcycle days).  You want to hold the camera?  Great, I want to hold the cash.  No cash, no camera out of my hands.  And you state that up front before the meeting.  Think that would have worked?

Well, as you can imagine, I've been mulling this over.  I always try to put myself in the shoes of the buyer.  They don't want to put themselves at risk either.  So things like taking a photo of their ID/DL is probably not a reality.  I'm not giving out my address and I figure they won't either.  However, if I take their photo and a photo of their vehicle including the license plate, that may go a ways toward establishing ID without any other need.  I wouldn't mind giving out my vehicle tag and make/model, it's public info already.  If they walk in without a vehicle, no sale.  Go away.

As for holding cash before holding camera, I like the idea but again, most buyers would be suspicious (and rightly so) that I would do the very same thing, run with the cash while they sit there with a camera box full of newspapers or a brick.

I fantasize how funny it would have been if the crook that ripped me off ran away, jumped fences, ripped his clothes and got a bloody knee only to arrive at his destination and discovered that all that was really in the box was some old junk cables, junk camera manual and a brick wrapped in bubble wrap.  You know, a crook who ran off with another crooks' scam!  LOL!  Unfortunately, that wasn't the case.

3
Btw: Rusty, did you manage to record your serial numbers on Lenstag before this occurred? (https://www.lenstag.com)
I have some of my gears serial numbers listed there; if I wasn't so damn lazy I would even had them verified so that they would be useful if the fit hit the shan...

Good question.  Not on Lenstag but I do keep the serial numbers in case someone ever tries to pull a switch and return on me.

Can you contact CPS... see if someone who unknowingly buys it off ebay/amazon, or whatever... then they register it on cps... and bam, cps lets you know, you tell the police...

the buyer then has to mail it back to you... and they will then contact amazon/ebay or whatever and demand a refund... and the theft guy then gets his payment stopped... maybe even goes to jail.

Well, thanks JD for your concern and ideas.  I appreciate your time to offer your thoughts.  No offense but my guess is that your chain of events is probably an extremely optimistic version of the reality.  Most of us in the honest world wish everyone wanted to catch criminals with mechanisms in place that seem like they should achieve that but it's rarely the case.  Sort of a "Wish in one hand..." sort of thing.  Of course, it can't hurt and I'll probably register it just in case.

My guess is that a) CPS doesn't care, b) Most folks would never register it on CPS, c) eBay doesn't care and finally and unfortunately, d) the police wouldn't care.  (And which police, if they did care, would have jurisdiction?)  Most all entities these days are not interested in getting involved and actually say that in their terms of use.  No, I haven't read the CPS terms about this but I'm just assuming.  If something like this could somehow happen, it would have to be driven by the authorities and that's likely where nothing would happen in the first place.

For instance, I know of a situation where a couple had their identity stolen, they spent weeks tracking down the thieves themselves, they got video and all kinds of other evidence and proof and turned it all over to the authorities who basically said that they weren't interested and didn't have time to mess with it.  That's the general mentality of most police today.  They are overworked, underpaid and in general, only pursue major crimes.  Their petty crimes divisions are underfunded and overworked.  The only hope I hold out for this case is that it is a felony due to the dollar amount so it might get a little more effort.  But I doubt it.

I'm glad no one was threatened or hurt, I'm glad it was just the camera and not the lens too.  I'm glad I hopefully learned something and I hope it helps everyone who hears about it avoid the same thing happening to them in the future, including me.  I'm also glad that I have the means to shrug it off as a lesson learned and not ruin my Christmas or put me in the poor house due to the unexpected loss.  I wish it had been the used 60D and not a new 5D3 but who knows what will happen in the future.  Being a $3000 camera, it will probably be very hard to get rid of unless it's sold to a individual in a parking lot somewhere for $200 or something.   And even that has an element of risk for the thief.


4
Btw: Rusty, did you manage to record your serial numbers on Lenstag before this occurred? (https://www.lenstag.com)
I have some of my gears serial numbers listed there; if I wasn't so damn lazy I would even had them verified so that they would be useful if the fit hit the shan...

Good question.  Not on Lenstag but I do keep the serial numbers in case someone ever tries to pull a switch and return on me.

5
I have been thinking of selling camera equipment that I own on CL.

Can someone give pointers on cautions I should use while posting and meeting potential buyers?

Do you give your personal phone number to strangers while communicating? I can imagine someone misusing it or make threatening calls...How do you get in touch with the buyers to avoid this?

Some of the big rules are...

1.  NEVER invite people to your home or give them your address.  (I mask my address on all receipts, etc that I include with an item.)
2.  I do my communication via a tiered system of my design.
        a. CL Mail Relay (anonymous)
        b. Burner Phone or Virtual Phone App with "Burner" Phone number.
        c. Once I've met them and a sale occurs, I will give them my real cell number/email/business card if I trust them.
3.  ALWAYS meet in a public place, well lit and in a known area.  (This Taco Bell wasn't terrible, it was public and well lit with surveillance video, but I didn't realize it was so easy to run away from it on foot.)
4.  Try to arrive at a meeting early so you can watch vehicles and see people coming and who they are with.
        a. This way you can get license numbers, take a picture or two and in general be on your guard.
5.  Go with a friend if possible.
6.  CASH ONLY to the buyer only, not a friend, cousin, etc.  NO PAYPAL, WESTERN UNION, CHECKS, ETC.

Check out these links if you haven't already.
http://www.craigslist.org/about/safety
http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams

And to be honest, I did not obey my rule #4 above.  I was running late even though I had suspicions about the meeting.  I let the chance of making a sale and the fact that all my previous sales had gone smoothly in public places convince me that it was going to be ok.  I got a bit sloppy and it cost me.  But I've learned my lesson and I will be more vigilant and demand more proof of serious buyer intent from now on.

And I will tell people up front that I've been ripped off before so I demand proof of a genuine buyer when I meet.  Like an ID, etc.  Maybe a call back to a legitimate place like their work.  Not sure on my final plan for this yet.

6
Obviously you called the police and asked the taco bell manager there are surveillance videos. 

Well, the hits just keep on coming!!  I met someone yesterday to sell the 5D3 I bought to sell and... they stole it.  Yep, STOLEN.  I met him at a Taco Bell, we talked a few minutes, he inspected the camera stuff in the box, talked about computer stuff a little, calm as can be and then proceeded to say he would get his money, started to walk away with the box and before I could stop him he was out the door, across the street and beatin' feet.  Bye 5D3!!   :-[   >:(

So, I feel like a chump even though I wasn't about to chase him down and risk meeting all his friends down the street, in a car or around the corner.

So keep that in mind, even though no one was hurt (except my pride/ego), this crap can happen.  So once I sell all the stuff I have to sell, I'll still probably come out ahead but most of my profit is gone now.  What a pisser.
Yes, filed police report and hopefully the detective for the case gets the store videos.  I hate to say this but I've heard from more than one source that in general, the police pretty much blow this stuff off.  There's just too much to do and not enough manpower or resources to do it.  My only hope is that since this is a felony (over $1500) it might make it a higher priority to pursue.

7
Business of Photography/Videography / Re: Update on SmugMug
« on: December 17, 2014, 04:45:00 PM »
I've used Zenfolio for years and been pretty happy.  If only I just had the number of pics that you do if I wanted to move!

As of today, my total appears to be...  33122 files, 131.2 GB
Is that all?  I guess I need to be uploading more of my photos to catch up ;)  Just kidding of course, and if you want to move, there are some services (or a service) out there that lets you move all of your photos.  I'd have to look for it again, but I guess they all have their stuff if Amazon's Cloud, so it's probably not as big of a deal as it sounds.   Okay, here's two: https://www.uploadjunction.com/ and for moves to SmugMug: http://smugglr.smugmug.com/

Yeah, sounds excessive but I shoot a lot and most of the stuff is for youth groups like scouts, school swim team, etc where everyone wants to have pics of their kids.  So it's not like I can post 10 pics or something for art's sake.  It's more like providing a record of the event for as many as possible.  Hence, lots of pics.

8
Business of Photography/Videography / Re: Update on SmugMug
« on: December 17, 2014, 04:10:32 PM »
Hi Mackguyver,

I'm using smugmug for about 9 months right now. After looking a small intro on youtube, I had four hours later my first site running on it. I never had the feeling that I should tell people to stay away. So I never had any frustration. I'm a happy user :) and it works great in combination with Lightroom.
Hi FEBS,

The old SmugMug was difficult to use, but once you spent many, many hours customizing it, it worked fairly well.  The new SmugMug is great, but moving from the old to new was near impossible when they first came out with it, leading to endless frustration on my part. With 3798 photos and 46.36 GB of data on their servers (just checked), the prospect of moving was a tough one for me.  I'm very happy that they have fixed the issues and other than a few things that I haven't sorted out, it's working well.  I look forward to putting more work into it this weekend.

I've used Zenfolio for years and been pretty happy.  If only I just had the number of pics that you do if I wanted to move!

As of today, my total appears to be...  33122 files, 131.2 GB

9
Well, the hits just keep on coming!!  I met someone yesterday to sell the 5D3 I bought to sell and... they stole it.  Yep, STOLEN.  I met him at a Taco Bell, we talked a few minutes, he inspected the camera stuff in the box, talked about computer stuff a little, calm as can be and then proceeded to say he would get his money, started to walk away with the box and before I could stop him he was out the door, across the street and beatin' feet.  Bye 5D3!!   :-[   >:(

So, I feel like a chump even though I wasn't about to chase him down and risk meeting all his friends down the street, in a car or around the corner.

So keep that in mind, even though no one was hurt (except my pride/ego), this crap can happen.  So once I sell all the stuff I have to sell, I'll still probably come out ahead but most of my profit is gone now.  What a pisser.

Oh, dude! You've had a really, really bad streak lately. :(
In any future attempts at selling items you will have to say that you're working "with the police" (here it would be illegal to say that you are a police, if not), and make sure you could show off any of your goods in front of the nearest police department (or near a working surveillance camera).

I hope the bad karma turns real soon, and that you can expect something extraordinary for Xmas.

Yeah, I thought about just meeting in the police lobby or parking lot from now on, LOL!

10
Well, the hits just keep on coming!!  I met someone yesterday to sell the 5D3 I bought to sell and... they stole it.  Yep, STOLEN.  I met him at a Taco Bell, we talked a few minutes, he inspected the camera stuff in the box, talked about computer stuff a little, calm as can be and then proceeded to say he would get his money, started to walk away with the box and before I could stop him he was out the door, across the street and beatin' feet.  Bye 5D3!!   :-[   >:(

So, I feel like a chump even though I wasn't about to chase him down and risk meeting all his friends down the street, in a car or around the corner.

So keep that in mind, even though no one was hurt (except my pride/ego), this crap can happen.  So once I sell all the stuff I have to sell, I'll still probably come out ahead but most of my profit is gone now.  What a pisser. 

11
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Possibly ok after dropped?
« on: December 17, 2014, 03:29:22 PM »
If it was me I would do my own insurance, get it going right away, not bug anyone else.  If the camera is working and you can't let go of it immediately, use some black gaffer tape on the injury.

Contact insurance right away to get the process started however.  If you wait, use the gear and then eventually contact them later, there might be some kind of loophole where you used it for X amount of time and it is working so it must not need repairs bad enough to merit a claim payment.  Who knows?  But if you have the insurance companies' blessing now to keep working with it, no problem.

Better safe than sorry.

12
I'm sure this is a joke, but if you really don't know what to do with them, I'll buy one of them from you (sans the Sto-Fen).

Yep, I'm being a bit silly.  I'm honestly looking for ways to best optimize them.  There's the conventional wisdom and then there's little tidbits learned from experience.  You know, after you've purchased half the store you look at the whole pile and figure you only use 30% of it most of the time.  I'm looking for what folks have learned and that 30% they use more than everything else.   :D

This: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/45189-REG/Rosco_950SBLUX0103_Roscolux_Swatchbook.html

And this: http://neilvn.com/tangents/about/black-foamie-thing/ from here http://www.michaels.com/creatology-foam-sheet-12x18/M10597609.html

And this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/812180-REG/General_Brand_001UPCG155MBLA_Gereral_Brands_Pro_Gaffer_s.html

And this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?N=10349147&InitialSearch=yes&sts=pi

An this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/707213-REG/ExpoImaging_ROGUERELG_Rogue_FlashBender_Large_Positionable.html

And this:

I would buy them all again tomorrow.

Wow, pbd!  I think maybe you and I are two of a kind!  I actually own all of that with the exception of the BFT which I am going to make in the next day or two.  And now I'm super curious to know what the last link might be, it appears that you forgot to insert it.  I'm a big fan of ILMs, Improvised Light Modifiers.  Cheap and easy to recreate in a pinch.  I really liked the video, it gives a lot of good info.  The girl is pretty easy on the eyes as well.

And I think (before anyone says it) that eneloop batteries are the absolute best thing for speedlites.

13
i really wanted to try out the chimera octa beauty dishes with speed lights, but went with einstein system instead.

with 3 of them, sounds like you have key, fill, and hair/kicker all set to go!

Yeah, I figured 3 should be sufficient for most stuff.  And I always get some great shots when I kick them just as I fire the shutter!   ;D

14
I'm sure this is a joke, but if you really don't know what to do with them, I'll buy one of them from you (sans the Sto-Fen).

Yep, I'm being a bit silly.  I'm honestly looking for ways to best optimize them.  There's the conventional wisdom and then there's little tidbits learned from experience.  You know, after you've purchased half the store you look at the whole pile and figure you only use 30% of it most of the time.  I'm looking for what folks have learned and that 30% they use more than everything else.   :D

15
I bought my 7D in mid 2011 and have taken about 25k photos with it.  I love it as much now as I did when I bought it.  I considered upgrading to a 5d3 about a year ago and couldn't pull the trigger.  The 7D is such a great sports and outdoor camera and I didn't want to compromise and lose some of those strengths.  So I bought a 6D to complement it and to have a second body.  I like some of the features of the new 7D2, but I refuse to play in the "I have to have the latest and greatest" game and always be upgrading something.

If anything, I'll do the same that I do with my iPhone - skip versions and buy every other.  The upgrade is more significant and I get more utility and use out of what I have.

Greg

I just ran across this thread since it popped up on the hits list.  I skimmed it and yet again, I agree with Mr. Wood.  I do the same thing.  I tend to skip versions and get a bigger bump in improvements when I upgrade.  If I must have something sooner, I often just buy a used older version to learn on and save money.

With that said, I didn't buy the original 7D and after about 6-8 months, I bought the 60D.  (Same sensor, etc.)  And I wasn't that impressed with the IQ.  Hence, I was glad I skipped the 7D.  However, after a few years, I did buy a refurb 70D and it did impress me.  So much that I figured I was set for another few years.  I love a bargain and a good value.

But when the 7D2 + 24-70 Combo deal from Canada Camera broke, I figured I would buy and sell it for a profit.  Then I tried the 7D2 and lo and behold, for the first time EVER I adopted a camera when it was released.  A first for me!  I was able to offset the price by selling the 24-70 lens it shipped with and the 70D.  I was impressed with the DeFlicker feature and that will save me enough time in post that I figure it's worth it.

I miss the smaller investment of the 70D and it's a great camera with all its extra features like WiFi, GPS and Touchscreen.  But the 7D2 is a beast and a great companion to the 5D3.  I'm not sorry I broke with my tradition and adopted it early.  (And I did skip the 7D so there's that...)   :D

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