Messages

166

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Moving to FF Canon vs Nikon - I'm Confused...

« on: January 03, 2013, 09:51:41 AM »

OK, things are getting a little weird now.  I have never heard anyone say the 10D had better IQ than any other Canon camera.  The way I have heard it, the 20D was a massive improvement to the 10D and then things just got better and better until the 50D arrived which was a step backward in terms of IQ due to excessive pixel density.  I have consistently heard many people rave about the 40D (and the 5Dc) both being some of their favorite cameras that Canon every made.  I am one of those people.

I realize this thread has gone off topic a bit into opinions on history so I'll drop it here but I just gotta say that trashing most of the Canon line is not really helping the OP's question much and it makes me wonder why some are still shooting Canon if it's such a poorly improved system for over 10 years.  I agree that Canon has begun to take advantage of their dominance with increased prices and a few disappointments on some individual issues (like low light 5D3 AF issues, etc) but I have never considered the entire line to be as bad as some seem to think.

koolman - as you have read through the 7 pages of posts on this topic, you probably really appreciated the posts from folks that have used both Nikon and Canon.  Did you see the other thread about 6D vs d600?  If not, go here http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11985.0 and read through.  The essence of some of the more lengthy posts went into great detail to discuss ergonomics of the Nikon/Canon menus, build quality, etc.  As this thread has gone off topic a bit I just want to remind you that there is a lot more to a camera than the sensor.  And as a 6D owner who has used many Canon bodies, I can assure you that the 6D is a fine camera, esp for someone new to FF coming from a 550d.  I would highly recommend the 6D kit to you with the bundled 24-105 lens.  I also use the SunPak RD2000 flash (w StoFen diffuser) as a small substitute to a pop up flash on my FF cameras.  It's not my only flash and it's not meant to replace a full size flash but it's great for simple fill needs in all environments and it will pivot.  Also - the 6D refuses to recognize a 3rd party battery so you need to get a genuine Canon extra battery.  The 3rd party battery works, the camera just doesn't show any status.

167

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Moving to FF Canon vs Nikon - I'm Confused...

« on: January 03, 2013, 12:20:33 AM »

Because, as I subsequently said... "6D is a warmed up 5D2" .... Obviously it has to up the ante a bit... No one is going to replace the 5D2 *with* a 5D2 ....they need to give people a few frills after 3 years...so we have 6D

"5D2-plus " if you will ...after 3 years wait at 2k ...a worthy upgrade for the suckers... Er...I mean  consumers

What makes you think the 6D is intended as an upgrade for 5D Mark II owners?  Did you take a bathroom break or step out to get more popcorn and miss the part where they added an extra 'I' to the Mark designation of the 5DII, when they named the 5D Mark III?

Well if a 5D Mark II owner is concerned about IQ then the 5D Mark III isn't an upgrade either.

Regardless, his point still stands.  The 6D isn't an intended upgrade to 5D Mark II owners.

Indeed, many 5D Mark II owners are still waiting for a camera that is an upgrade to the 5D Mark II.

OK, wow.  Now you really have me confused.  If there hasn't been a decent upgrade since the 20D, what are we even discussing?  The 6D and the 5DIII aren't decent upgrades to the 5D2 and the 5D2 wasn't a decent upgrade to the 20D.  It sounds like the entire Canon lineup since the 20D has been a huge waste of time.  So why am I not still shooting everything with my 30D?  It was indeed a great camera. 

To a certain extent I guess I have to agree since I still love my 5Dc.  And yet, RLPhoto is using two 5D3 units and I am enjoying both my 5D3 and 6D for their respective strengths.  So for some reason I still felt like the 30D needed replacement way back when.  And in the last couple months, I decided to upgrade from the 5Dc to the 5D3 and 6D.  I guess I'm just another one of those suckers that doesn't have the good sense to stick with my 30D and 5Dc for another 5 years or so while everyone else upgrades.

168

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Moving to FF Canon vs Nikon - I'm Confused...

« on: January 02, 2013, 11:28:19 PM »

After some thought, I do have to say that from the perspective of 5D2 owners, the 6D may not be that compelling.  From my perspective as a 5Dc owner who wasn't that excited about the 5D2, the 6D makes more sense.  And the 6D doesn't just make sense to me coming from a 5Dc.  It makes sense coming from a 5D3 if I don't need the super AF for sports.  See, I went from the 5Dc to the 5D3 and was a bit disappointed so the 6D seems like a good compromise for a lot less money.  I'm giving the 5D3 until after the next firmware update to see what improves and then it may go away.  We'll see....

169

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Moving to FF Canon vs Nikon - I'm Confused...

« on: January 02, 2013, 11:20:44 PM »

I wish that someone who has actual experience using multiple Canon cameras (including the 6D) would explain what ...

'The 6D is a repackaged 5D2, which is a repackaged 20D w/ a FF sensor.'

... even means.  It sounds like an assertion that Canon cameras haven't changed in 10+ years.  And many seem to agree.  What am I missing?

Pixel pitch of 5D Mark II: 6.4 microns
Pixel pitch of 20D: 6.4 microns

Um, is pixel pitch really the spec you are going to support that statement with?   

170

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: I bought/would buy a 6D and not a D600 because...

« on: January 02, 2013, 10:59:28 PM »

verysimplejason - ROFL!     You beat me to it!  Gawd, I was thinking the exact same thing and I had to restrain myself from quoting your quote of the other quotes that I didn't need to quote!!  Ahh, ha ha ha ha!!!  You are so bad!  I Love it!

171

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Moving to FF Canon vs Nikon - I'm Confused...

« on: January 02, 2013, 10:41:25 PM »

I myself moved from the Terrible to the Just OK class after I returned my camera for an exchange.  At this price range however, I wish there wasn't even a discussion about 5D3 low light AF performance except to question how it can be so good all the time for everyone without question.

So at the moment I am enjoying better low light AF with the 6D but I hope the 5D3 low light AF performance somehow magically improves after the next firmware update. 

Hi Rusty,
Are you talking about the AF flash assist issue or low light focusing in general? For me the two are very different. Thought the 5D3 was pretty hot in the available light focusing department, no?

Well, this has been discussed to death already and some see AF Flash Assist and Low Light focusing as separate issues.  Personally, I see them as related and part of the same problem.  Since every other camera I have ever owned performed better than the 5D3 in Low Light AF performance (in available low light, without AF Assist, FWIW), I expected at least somewhat better AF performance from the new $3K+ 5D3 in this category.  Just call me Crazy!  Alas, after exchanging the camera, I have been able to achieve similar AF low light performance to my older cameras but not much better.  So, I got the 6D to compare and it works much better, like I expected the 5D3 to perform after hearing all the hype for many months.  I've never used AF Assist and to be honest, I had forgotten all about it until I got a 5D3 and started reading up on why the low light AF sucked so much.

172

Lenses / Re: Prime Lens for 6D

« on: January 02, 2013, 06:02:47 PM »

Ditto on the 40mm/2.8 pancake and the 50mm/1.4.  However, my first prime way back was the 28mm/1.8 USM and I still like using that lens on both crop and FF.  It's a great lens you should also consider.  All of these lenses are in the same sub $500 price range, esp if you buy one used.

173

PowerShot / Boy Scout Photography Class - Thoughts?

« on: January 02, 2013, 05:49:35 PM »

Plan to teach another (basics) Photography Class to scouts soon.  Been pondering how to make it fun, keep scouts' attention, etc.  Not my first rodeo but it never hurts to get input from others and gain more perspective.  I've got a projector, computer, extra cameras, etc.  Their requirements include learning photography basics and making a poster board or slide presentation with their pictures that tells a story.

So for all you instructors out there, anything you think makes a big splash or is a hit with your audience, I'm all ears!  Thanks!

Also, some low cost camera thoughts/ideas for those young shooters... I was thinking either a used Rebel with kit lens (harder to come by) or a Canon SX160 from Amazon, etc that is a P&S but still allows for manual control and takes AA batteries when the suggested AA rechargeables run down while camping.

174

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 5D III and 300 2.8 II hit rate for sharp pictures very low

« on: January 02, 2013, 05:21:52 PM »

Hi AlanF
Hi John,

got it. I made everything wrong what I could do wrong.
John I did read again your article http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Photography-Tips/AF-Microadjustment-Tips.aspx

Ok so I will try now the live view / normal AF comparison.
I will us the the png file from your article

Thank you again very much for your help.

Bye
Flo

I really have to say that the AFMA article by nuero is very well done.  Thanks for that!

175

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Moving to FF Canon vs Nikon - I'm Confused...

« on: January 02, 2013, 05:11:15 PM »

Welcome to the forum schnellergt!  While this forum can't escape the occasional trolls, it's a good forum overall.

I like your thoughtful post describing your experience.  I think the 5D3 is a great camera and did respond to Canon customer demands, at least to a certain extent.  It's still overpriced however and to me, is disappointing in low light AF when that was supposed to be one its big strengths.  The fact that there are two or three distinct classes of user satisfaction in this area (No Problem, Just OK and Terrible) seems to indicate a QA problem in the 5D3 manufacturing process.  I myself moved from the Terrible to the Just OK class after I returned my camera for an exchange.  At this price range however, I wish there wasn't even a discussion about 5D3 low light AF performance except to question how it can be so good all the time for everyone without question.

So at the moment I am enjoying better low light AF with the 6D but I hope the 5D3 low light AF performance somehow magically improves after the next firmware update.  Otherwise, I'll probably stick with the 6D for the foreseeable future and maybe even sell the 5D3.

Thanks again for your input!!

176

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Moving to FF Canon vs Nikon - I'm Confused...

« on: January 02, 2013, 04:29:47 PM »

As I use both camera bodies, I agree that Canon is charging too much for the 6D but if that's true, it must also be true that they are charging WAY too much for the 5D3.  Both bodies are overpriced.  As I use both, I am finding that for my use, I am starting to prefer to be gouged less with the overpriced 6D than the 5D3. 

177

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Moving to FF Canon vs Nikon - I'm Confused...

« on: January 02, 2013, 03:54:38 PM »

The 6D is a repackaged 5D2, which is a repackaged 20D w/ a FF sensor.

Save your dough and buy a used 5D2+glass or a 5D3.

I keep seeing this same post by RLPhoto in response to the 6D over and over.  I consider RLPhoto a solid and talented photographer who consistently offers great advice here, no offense is intended by my comment but...  his response to the 6D is out of character for him because it indicates an assumption opinion apparently based on specs that isn't backed up by first hand experience.  And the repeated posting of it seems to indicate a desire to prevent others from making a mistake in purchasing the 6D.

I've shot about 4000+ images so far with the 6D I've owned for about a month.  I also own the 5D3, 60D, 40D, 30D and original 5D.  I've shot the 5D2 as well.  The 5D3 and 6D are the first NIB bodies I've purchased.  I normally purchase most of my equipment used.  I agree that the current Canon prices are ridiculous.  I purchased the 6D because I find the 5D3 low light performance and AF to be lacking.  In another month or two I will likely sell either the 5D3 or the 6D.  If Canon somehow magically fixes the 5D3 AF I would be inclined to possibly keep it but as things stand now, unless I do a lot of sports shooting (which I don't), the 6D will easily win this decision.

I can assure you that IMHO (based on actual use) the 6D is not a repackaged 5D2, 20D or whatever is being assumed.  The 6D IQ is comparable to the 5D3 IQ and the 6D is superior to all other cameras in low light.  The 6D simply works great as an entry level (or even mid level) FF camera.  Everything I have read from actual 6D hands-on use and reviews is positive.  My knee-jerk reaction to the 6D spec sheet several months ago was also negative.  But I gave it a chance and I'm glad I did.

My only experience with the 6D is an hour in a camera store, (the camera exchange in SA), and I was not impressed because it felt exactly like the 5D2 but alittle nicer. I also realized using why it doesn't have a joystick because you will only be using the center point for accurate focusing. Set it and forget it. The outer points are
Ok If your at f/4 or so. Still a bit hit or miss.

Strange that the 5D2 is very similar in this main AF aspect. Even the t4i has all cross type AF points! What gives? If they have it the 7D AF system minimum, well I'd probably have one.

I'd rather buy a 5D2 + L lens than spend the cash on the 6D. This is my opinion, and that's my feelings on the camera. I apologize if I may of offended you rusty, but the 6D AF performed no better than my 5Dc or rebel XSI I've used years ago. Perhaps in super low light it will show its magic, but my 5Dc was also fantastic in low light w/ center point AF selected.

Thanks RLPhoto.  Of course I'm not offended, just a bit confused.  I tend to agree with most of your posts and I like your style.  So for that reason, I have been a bit confounded by your thoughts on the 6D.  Personally, I have never been able to learn much about a camera body in the store other than seeing how it feels in the hand and how the menus and controls work.  Otherwise, I have to shoot some stuff in real world use to get an idea about whether I prefer the camera.  I love the original 5Dc and I think the 6D is more similar in use to the 5Dc than the 5D3 is.  The 5D3 is more complicated due to its AF features, etc.

IMO, as I use the 6D and the 5D3 side by side, I am starting to lean toward a similar thought as yours except I would rather own the 6D + L lens instead of paying the price of the 5D3.  (Unless my primary use required the superior 5D3 AF in action shots.)  The IQ of both cameras for normal photography is very close.  And one of my favorite features is the Silent Shutter which is identical on both cameras.

178

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Moving to FF Canon vs Nikon - I'm Confused...

« on: January 02, 2013, 03:08:55 PM »

OK, now this is more like it!  Some fun posts!  I particularly will be on the waiting list for the tractor beam feature!!  Especially if it will track my eye movements and re-pose or levitate the subjects I choose!  I think the tractor beam would be very handy in low light for stabilizing the moving subjects.  Sort of like the next logical step in IS technology!  (Not only does the new IS system dampen camera/lens movement for 4+ stops of exposure advantage, it also stops the subject for another 4 stops!!)  This might be problematic in dance recitals, stock car races and pro sports where "IS Free" zones would need to be enforced.  This would unfortunately free up people to use their cell phones since all the enforcement attention would be paid to watching for IS users!   

Alright, I got that out of my system.  Sorry for taking the thread off topic.  But I didn't mention sharing software so hopefully I'll be alright....

179

Reviews / Re: Canon 6D review

« on: January 02, 2013, 01:53:52 PM »

My experience has been similar and I agree:  The 6D would be a superb backup to a 5D3 for weddings.  The 5D3 is a superior sports/action AI Servo camera, the 6D is a superior low light One Shot camera.  And Low/Available light shooting is what I do most so I have shot more 6D shots than 5D3 shots when they are both hanging as I work.  I get tired of missing shots while waiting for the 5D3 to focus in low light.  That's very irritating after spending $3K+ for that camera.  Grrrr!

180

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Moving to FF Canon vs Nikon - I'm Confused...

« on: January 02, 2013, 01:37:13 PM »

and there are enough tests that show that nikkors are often better then the equivalent canon.

 This is patently false, Canon by reputation which translates to the obvious supremacy in market share owns the consumer and professional SLR lens market today...you have to move up to higher formats to see other players and Canon wisely doesn't dabble in those markets. So much so, their supremacy in the SLR lens market is in fact the basis of their marketing leverage in pricing their bodies a smidge higher, and getting away with small annoyances like not including hoods even for some 1K L's (70-200L  f/4 IS for example). This is the typical behaviour of a confident company that says "see what I can get away with...suck it up".

Nikon had a leg up in the UWA zoom range...but somehow I think this will be rectified very very soon by Canon.

Canon is a very large company with many divisions besides photography.  They have a lot of resources to draw from to produce exceptional products.  I completely agree that they do whatever they think they can get away with with regard to price and small annoyances like omitting hoods, etc from $1K lens offerings, etc.  That is the irritation I feel when buying Canon these days.  They send the message with these habits that they don't really care about your pocketbook or loyalty because they assume they will have both anyway.  It's a bit insulting.  And since I don't make a living from photography, I occasionally wonder why I even bother.  Sometimes selling everything and just going back to having a single body and 2 or 3 good lenses and a flash sounds mighty appealing.  Take that Canon!  (Me = insignificant consumer insect shaking tiny insect fist at mighty Canon juggernaut.)