February 26, 2015, 06:26:18 PM

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Messages - Famateur

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16
EOS Bodies / Re: Bingo! New Canon 5Ds has 50.6 MP new rumored specs
« on: February 06, 2015, 03:54:23 PM »
So Canon's business strategy is like Taco Bell? That's the best analogy I've heard yet ;D

LOL...not really, in a serious way, but Marsu's description reminded me of it. Glad you like it, even if it's just meant for a laugh.   :P

17
EOS-M / Re: Official: Canon EOS M3 and It's Not Coming To North America
« on: February 06, 2015, 03:49:24 PM »
I don't want to say Canon bungled this, because they might be right just competing for group A.  But I have to wonder if Canon, and Nikon, which has taken a different, but also questionable mirrorless path, are risking the future by letting some of their most avid customers consider other systems.  Once someone has an investment in both camps (as I do with Canon SLR and Sony mirrorless), you run the risk that they eventually decide to go with one and don't pick yours.

And that is the question: Is Canon wise in its market savvy and conservative long-term approach, or is it an over-confident and/or short-sighted Kodak? Time will tell...

18
EOS-M / Re: Official: Canon EOS M3 and It's Not Coming To North America
« on: February 06, 2015, 03:46:17 PM »

We okay now? :P


Yeah we're fine buddy.

...

Sorry for the yank bit.  I guess I was just yanking your chain a little bit as there is a big world out here.

Thoughtful reply which I appreciate.

Good, good. Thanks! :P

Having lived for years in some very remote and diverse places in this big world of ours (still haven't met many people who've ever heard of Mangaia or Patutahi), I appreciate the perspective and feel bad that my choice of words implied otherwise.

19
EOS Bodies / Re: Bingo! New Canon 5Ds has 50.6 MP new rumored specs
« on: February 06, 2015, 02:17:04 PM »
Canon just saved me alot of money :P.

Canon keeps being Canon, evolving their legacy dslr line step by step, avoiding big decisions or risks if the can help it (that's why they do a 5ds and 5ds-r, even though Nikon decided to only do one d810 w/o low pass filter).

Canon are very good at the numbers game and keep shuffling around their lineup, try to limit r&d costs and re-assemble new gear from old designs. If you're not ok with switch to Sonikon or - as you indicate - simply skip a couple of generations.

I don't think this will ever change unless they get in serious trouble with their current policy, and as the 5ds will find a lot of customers the end isn't nigh.

+1 Canon is running a business, and for now, well enough to lead in market share.

Off Topic: The "shuffling around  their lineup" comment reminds me of Taco Bell. [For those outside the US, it's a fast-food chain that makes Mexican food -- and I use that description very loosely.] They really only have a handful of ingredients (tortillas, ground beef, chicken, rice, beans, onions, lettuce, orangey-yellowish stuff they call cheese, et cetera), yet they seem to come out with a new way to combine these ingredients into some "new" product all the time, with an equally creatively concocted name. Somehow they stay in business. Occasionally, they even get my business...don't ask my why. :P

20
EOS-M / Re: Official: Canon EOS M3 and It's Not Coming To North America
« on: February 06, 2015, 01:56:44 PM »
As I think about this more, it seems that it might help to make a distinction between two very different segments of the mirrorless market:

Group A: Those who have never owned a DSLR and currently shoot with a camera phone or Powershot but would like to take their photography to a higher level.

Group B: Those who already own a DSLR and want a compact system that doesn't hold them back from their current level of photography.

There might very well be other groups, too, so I'm not intentionally limiting it to these -- just making an observation about these two groups.

It would seem to me that the EOS M series is aimed at Group A. The majority of complainers about the M series seems to be Group B. Incidentally, it would seem that mirrorless offerings from other brands, particularly the Sony A7 series, are aimed at Group B.

Complaining that the product positioned to meet the demands of Group A doesn't meet the demands of Group B seems a bit misdirected. That said, I understand why people in Group B with Canon gear would want Canon to make a mirrorless product aimed at Group B. For their sakes, I hope that Sony, Olympus and Fuji succeed in establishing the mirrorless market for Group B -- enough to be attractive for Canon to respond with an offering that competes well in the Group B market.

Until then, it appears that Canon is content to sell DSLRs.






21
EOS-M / Re: Official: Canon EOS M3 and It's Not Coming To North America
« on: February 06, 2015, 01:26:18 PM »
I don't really believe the theories about US and/or North Americans buying behaviour re. "(only) large camera (DSLR) = good camera".  ;D


Fair enough. :P


There are better informed and less informed (potential) customers in any market.


Agreed.


I am convinced, if Canon had priced it slightly lower than the EOS SL1/100D (DSLR), it would have sold reasonably well - in Europe and in the U.S. too and it would have spared Canon the firesale and the embarrassment. 


Possibly, but if you're Canon, would you want people to buy the M for less, or the SL1 for more, along with EF lenses and future body upgrades? :P

I'm not convinced that those who passed on the M because of its high price went to a different brand of mirrorless. My hunch is that they tended to buy an SL1 or Rebel instead. Your mention of adjusting the price relative to the SL1 implies that we might be in agreement here, but I don't want to make that assumption.

22
EOS-M / Re: Official: Canon EOS M3 and It's Not Coming To North America
« on: February 06, 2015, 01:10:13 PM »
Looks like the demand for Canon mirrorless system is not that great in US

Agreed. If and when Canon sees enough demand here, a worthy mirrorless body will be introduced. As long as Canon keeps selling DSLRs, there's not much reason to change course, forum rantings notwithstanding.

So canon are holding off until theres one good enough for the yanks?  It's that kind of self-awareness that makes America friends all over the world.

Speaking as a Yank, "...A worthy mirrorless body..." is pretty arrogant and demeaning to the rest of the world.  Remember the term "the ugly American?"  Seems we don't learn.


See my long(er)-winded reply to Tinky for a full response (particularly my second attempt in which I state that it must be "worthy of its competition" not worthy of an elitist American, as was understood from my apparently poor choice of adjective). I might not be the best communicator, but your assumption that I am arrogant and am demeaning the rest of the world and "don't learn" seems to exhibit a touch of the arrogance of which you accuse me -- particularly the "we don't learn" part. Were you speaking directly to me with condescension, or were you speaking past me to those I might have offended, apologizing on my behalf? It's amazing to me how quickly people rush to judgment to criticize what they see as a rash or improper judgment.

This forum is rife with attacks hurled at Canon for its (in some people's opinion) ineptitude for producing what they consider a worthless, half-hearted mirrorless camera -- simply because it doesn't possess the features they think it should. These "it's unworthy of me or my money" comments are all over the place. Notice that I have never participated in any such derogatory comments. My comments have always been an attempt at market analysis in trying to figure out Canon's strategy.

It's strange to me that my statement about a potential future mirrorless body being exceptional once the North American market shows strong demand for mirrorless bodies has instantly labeled me as arrogant, demeaning and stubbornly ignorant. Yet, comments from people from a smattering of countries around the world -- even Americans -- who consider the M a worthless wasted effort by Canon, are NOT elitist in their disdainful rejection of the product and their assumption that it should be designed just for them? Bizzaro world...

Anyway, arguments like this suck, so I'm going to leave it here. Back to the cameras...  :P :-X

23
EOS-M / Re: Official: Canon EOS M3 and It's Not Coming To North America
« on: February 06, 2015, 12:11:27 PM »
Looks like the demand for Canon mirrorless system is not that great in US

Agreed. If and when Canon sees enough demand here, a worthy mirrorless body will be introduced. As long as Canon keeps selling DSLRs, there's not much reason to change course, forum rantings notwithstanding.

So canon are holding off until theres one good enough for the yanks?  It's that kind of self-awareness that makes America friends all over the world.

Wow...okay. Didn't mean to make anyone angry or offend them.

Tinky, I generally enjoy reading your thoughtful posts, so the sarcastic jab at "yanks" and insulting their image throughout the world took me a bit by surprise. If it was meant in good spirit, an emoticon next time would help.  :P I'll try not to take it personally and chalk it up to disappointment in the M launch news. I'll also try not to judge your character and that of your fellow citizens by a single forum post, too.  ;)

A few things (feel free to call it defensive, damage control, whatever... :P ):

1. Not sure when all of North America became "yanks", but unless things drastically changed overnight, it includes Canada and Mexico. I guess that makes all three countries' populations arrogant, too, for not demanding mirrorless cameras?

2. The last time I was in the UK, I couldn't find a decent root beer or a jar of peanut butter (over a few ounces) to save my life. I'm guessing it's because...there simply isn't a demand for it. Does that make the British arrogant and hamper their international appeal as potential friends? Of course not...

3. I think the "making friends all over the world" (or difficulty thereof) has a LOT more to do with the geopolitical policies of our respective governments (okay, and perhaps some unfortunate, stereotypical tourists) and not about the attitudes of the citizenry, which consists of a broad spectrum of opinions, attitudes and even cultures. I would expect that the British were still generally a delightful people in the grand old days of the British Empire, despite their government dominating much of the world.

4. Yuichi Ishizuka, president and COO, Canon U.S.A., Inc appears to be Japanese. Is he an arrogant American for choosing not to bring the M3 to the North American market? Was it because he thinks Americans are arrogant that he chose not to bring the M3 to the North American market. Does a business even care about arrogance of its customers? Nope. It's about market demand -- and that is entirely what my comment was about.

I think it was my choice of adjective (worthy) that caused the heartburn. My bad -- should have used "appealing" or "impressive" or something. Based on your comment, it sounds like it came across as me saying, "The M3 might be good enough for the rest of the world, but it's not good enough for us, and the rest of the world just doesn't know any better." If I had known that's how it would be taken, I would have used different language. My sincere apologies.


Dare I try again? :P

There isn't enough demand in North America, in Canon management's opinion, to justify launching a mirrorless body here ("here" being North America  ;) ). This market, for whatever reason, prefers its DLSRs, and it would likely take a truly compelling mirrorless body to change that.

It appears to me that Canon is willing to let other brands spend the money and take the risks to try to win over DSLR users to the mirrorless concept, especially after its failure with the M1. If/when that happens in North America, Canon will re-enter the market, and when it does, it will need a compelling, impressive camera -- worthy (gasp) of its competition -- to succeed.

Hopefully that was a bit better communicated. We okay now? :P








Now for a baseless personal theory on the difficulty of winning DSLR users over to mirrorless in the North American market: It might be that the average consumer looking to get something more capable than their iPhone or Powershot (which I believe is the primary market for the M) might have a hard time seeing enough difference (especially because of physical appearance) between a mirrorless body and an advanced point-and-shoot.

My hunch is that, whether justified or not, consumers here (North America) see a DSLR as a "serious" camera and see mirrorless as a compromised stepping stone to what they really want (or think they want). They might be thinking, "Why use this little thing that looks like my friend's G Series, but with interchangeable lenses? If I'm going to have to mess with lenses, I might as well go for it and get a DSLR." Not saying that's what I think or if it's right or wrong...just a thought.

I can't tell you how many times people see my modest DSLR and say, "Wow -- that's a big camera. You must know what you're doing." If that same person goes to buy a camera with that perception, they're going to choose the Rebel, not the M. After all, it's a big, cool camera that's sure to produce better images and that now others will be impressed by, too. It doesn't matter how capable a mirrorless body is, it won't sell well in this market if a DSLR in the same price tier exists -- until this idea of "bigger is better" or "bigger is pro" is successfully countered. I think that'll be awhile in North America, and apparently, so does Canon, USA.

Now you know why my kids often refer to me as "the old windbag." :P

24
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R Press Release
« on: February 06, 2015, 01:21:50 AM »

Look these new cameras, the 5DS and 5DS R, are not 5D MkIII replacements, they are nothing to do with the 5D MkIII and 5D MkIV either, they are different tools that are more finely tuned for different users. They are not intended to be the best general purpose camera ever made, which I firmly believe at this point the 5D MkIII is, they are refinements of that Canon 5D marque to widen their appeal to a very nuanced clientele.

I think the unfortunate thing about the route Canon has taken is we will get no end of utter garbage about how this 5D can't do what that 5D can with no regard for the fact that that isn't what it is designed to do or sold as doing.

The 5D MkIV will be the 5D MkIII replacement, it will need 'better' everything than the 5D MkIII. The 5DS and 5DS R are 1DS MkIII replacements for the kinds of people that used to drop $7,000 on a 135 format camera. For those people a pair of 5DS/5DS R's make a lot of sense, they already get 'better' everything (that is important to them) even with the seemingly modest improvements talked about.

There will never be a camera that has the best of everything in it, there can't be. We now have a split 5D line as we used to have a split 1 series line. People never bitched about why the 1D couldn't do what the 1DS could or visa versa, get used to the new family and the split feature set.


Well said.

25
June will give me time to save up again after my G.A.S. explosion on the 100-400II a 1.4III and a month ago on a second hand Phase One 645DF+ and P45+ back with two lenses ... and btw NO .. no buyers remorse after hearing this announcement.

LOL!!! My mind's eye is violated by that mental image! Gave me a good laugh, though. Glad I wasn't drinking something when I read it, or my screen would be dripping. :P

26
Looks like I was right on the sensor being Canon. We'll see how it does. Given that the announcement isn't touting dynamic range, I'm expecting my prediction to be correct -- not a huge increase.

I also thought it was interesting that my theory of this being positioned as an alternative to medium format was actually mentioned in the announcement.  8)

Looking forward to reviews and image samples...but June? Dang. It was hard enough just waiting the last few days before the announcement. What am I going to do until June??? Oh...wait...I guess I could...take some photos. :P

"The 5Ds has the same dynamic range as 5D III. While some will complain that the closest Nikon-equivalent body has more dynamic range (and more is better), I haven't had an issue with the 5D II's DR. When I can't retain both shadows and highlights in an image, that scene generally needs very significantly more DR and exposure bracketing with HDR handles those instances nicely."

Right on. That's probably how the majority of the target market for these bodies feels, too.

27
EOS-M / Re: Official: Canon EOS M3 and It's Not Coming To North America
« on: February 05, 2015, 11:52:41 PM »
Looks like the demand for Canon mirrorless system is not that great in US

Agreed. If and when Canon sees enough demand here, a worthy mirrorless body will be introduced. As long as Canon keeps selling DSLRs, there's not much reason to change course, forum rantings notwithstanding.

28
Looks like I was right on the sensor being Canon. We'll see how it does. Given that the announcement isn't touting dynamic range, I'm expecting my prediction to be correct -- not a huge increase.

I also thought it was interesting that my theory of this being positioned as an alternative to medium format was actually mentioned in the announcement.  8)

Looking forward to reviews and image samples...but June? Dang. It was hard enough just waiting the last few days before the announcement. What am I going to do until June??? Oh...wait...I guess I could...take some photos. :P

29
EOS-M / Re: Official: Canon EOS M3 and It's Not Coming To North America
« on: February 05, 2015, 11:31:05 PM »
Looks like I was right.  8)

Now let's see how I did on my other predictions... :P

30
EOS Bodies / Re: Future Canon DSLR Strategy for More Focused Products?
« on: February 05, 2015, 09:48:22 PM »

I'd be very surprised to see the 1 Series get a split any time soon, at least before a 1DX Mark II comes out.

The 1D is currently split into X and C lines. It will be interesting to see if there will be a 1D C Mark II or not. Presently, there is probably more need to update the 1D C compared to the 1D X. For example, improved slow mo, add video functions such as peaking. As well  1D C Mk II could include Canon's video PDAF.

Agreed. I made that disclaimer in one of the other threads but failed to add it here. It's a good point. That said, I think the Cinema line is considered by Canon to be a different enough animal than photography that it probably doesn't fall within the same market/product segmentation discussion.

With the recent price drops on both the 1DX and 1DC, they're probably both getting a refresh. Will be interesting to see what comes...

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