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Messages - V8Beast

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EOS Bodies / Re: High ISO comparo: 5DIII vs. D800
« on: March 11, 2012, 03:41:48 PM »
5DIII and D800 are completely different cameras. So why would you try to compare them?

Because I have both of them on pre-order, and whichever is the better camera will determine which system I go with.

Because I'm heavily invested in the Canon system, I want the 5DIII to be better, but it's hard to ignore the Nikon.

Because both the 5DIII and D800 represent the mid-range, prosumer DLSR in each company's respective lineup, both are priced similarly, and both will be compared to each other by potential consumers.

Because like it or not, they are not completely different cameras. They're competing in the same arena of the market for the same consumer dollars. The 5DII and D700 were different tools, with the former aimed at resolution and the latter at speed, but people inevitably shopped them against each other.

As long digital cameras are being sold there always has been the trade of between amount of pixels and amount of noise. Also you can not expect large files and high fps together. All this is getting better with every camera but the difference remains. Just get what you need most.

The 1Ds, 1DsII, and 1DsIII all offered an outstanding tradeoff between resolution, speed, and noise. On paper, the 5DIII continues this tradition. The problem is that the competition has been making revolutionary strides, and the D800 sacrifices very little in speed and noise compared to the 5DIII despite its massive resolution advantage. Canon used to be the class of the field in this regard, and Nikon was an absolute joke just five years ago. Unfortunately for Canon shooters like me, the tables are turning.

Before the sample images from each body started floating around, I hoped the noise and DR of the 5DIII would have been improved enough to make the D800 less appealing. It doesn't look like Canon has succeeded.

Again, this is still merely speculation and I'll reserve final judgement until I can test both cameras out in the field. That said, I'm still pulling for Canon.

EOS Bodies / Re: High ISO comparo: 5DIII vs. D800
« on: March 11, 2012, 06:54:56 AM »
...Which graphically demonstrates the complete nonsense of that line of thinking.

Allow me to elaborate. When looking at a 100 percent crop of a 36 mp image compared to a 22 mp image, I'd expect the odds to be stacked in favor of the 22 mp files unless the 36 mp image was downsized accordingly. In viewing the raws from both cameras at 100 percent, I can't see much a difference in noise.

I'm not complaining about the 5DIII's megapixel count, as I think 22 is plenty, but considering that Canon didn't increase it much at all over the MKII, I was hopeful of a substantial improvement in ISO. It looks like what we got was a substantial increase in in-camera noise reduction. I'm not going to complain about that either, but Canon's advertised 2 stop ISO advantage of the MKIII over the MKII is obviously for jpegs, now raws.

EOS Bodies / Re: High ISO comparo: 5DIII vs. D800
« on: March 11, 2012, 06:23:23 AM »
In light of these D800 raws that I dug up, I might have to retract my worthless opinion. There's a link to download the raws and jpegs in a zip file.


In comparing jpegs, the 5DIII files look like they have a clear edge, but compared to this set of raw files on Imaging Resource that have already been posted, both cameras appear equal in the noise department:


It's an apples to oranges comparison since they aren't images of the same subject/scene, but I have to admit that this is a surprisingly good showing by the D800. I was expecting the 5DIII to beat it by a comfortable margin due to the disparity in megapixel count.

In comparing the D800's raws to its jpegs, the noise is pretty similar. I think this validates people's suspicions that Canon is apply some heavy in-camera noise reduction in its jpeg files.

Oh boy, not the 7D Gestapo!
I'm sorry. Did someone say Full Frame KGB?

Please. While the full-frame KGB are worthy adversaries, they're still no match for the most formidable task force on earth, the 7D Gustapo. I heard that the 7D Gustapo is actually a top secret sect of Seal Team 6, and are the ones that really shot bin Laden  :D

If you want to avoid smites, do not say anything other than "the 7D is the greatest camera ever made and nothing can surpass it". I gotta go. I think the 7D Gestapo are on to me......

Oh boy, not the 7D Gestapo! Unless you wanted to get smited into oblivion, don't you dare even hinting that there might be some advantages in IQ of a full-frame sensor over a crop. Although there might be some truth to this, the Gestapo have informed me that it's a myth, and people that spend 3 times are much for a full-frame body are talentless imbeciles who need to learn how to shoot. 

Someone smites me all the time regardless of whether I comment or not

They're just jealous of all your equipment :) I think it's gear envy.

As for the karma system, put me in the indifferent/apathetic category. Some of the most helpful, respectful, and experienced photogs on here have the most smites, which tells you that the karma system is a complete joke. Unfortunately, lots of people hit the smite button to restore their self-esteem whenever someone hurts their wittle feelings with an opinion that's different for their own.

I love the odins the on screen controls are really cool and super easy to use
you can adjust power in 1/3 stop increments
and balance your A/B group power ratios really easy with the rear display
reliability and range is great too
1 button push to enable / disable HSS
its very clear from the way the odins are layed out they were designed to complement the canon flash system the best

I did look at the PW and radio poppers but for the price I think the odins take the win

What kind of range are you getting out of the Odins? The new 600EX is intriguing, but I'm put off by the advertised 100 foot range. I need a trigger than can work in open spaces outdoors at 150-200 feet.

Also, how is the build quality and durability of the Odins? They look much better than you're typical Hong Kong triggers, at least in the pictures.   

I love this quote:

When I do events for Canon you have two types of photographers. I find professional photographers [often] don’t go into technical details – they just ask about the handling – and you get hobbyists who ask technical [specification] questions. One of the questions I get asked is ‘It’s only 18.1 Megapixels, why not more?’ I answer ‘First of all, who needs more?
Yay! I ran into some woman on the beach with a Canon 5D mk2 (I only had a 350D then) and the question that I asked her was how it felt :---)  Does that make me a professional photographer?  :P

If she paid you for your services, then yes  ;D

I love this quote:

When I do events for Canon you have two types of photographers. I find professional photographers [often] don’t go into technical details – they just ask about the handling – and you get hobbyists who ask technical [specification] questions. One of the questions I get asked is ‘It’s only 18.1 Megapixels, why not more?’ I answer ‘First of all, who needs more?

Coming from someone who shoots with three 550EXs, and is about to shell out big bucks with multiple 600EXs and an ST-E3, I'm certainly not doing it to save money over a proper monolight setup! I'm on location for 90 percent of my shoots, and using off-camera flash in 90 percent of those shots. The portability, the lack of cords, the lack of a power supply, quick setup time, and precise ETTL metering is why the Speedlites suit my needs most of the time. However, they are by no means a substitute for a set of real monolights in a studio environment. If you need to light up a large subject with fast recycle times, you need a set of monolights.

Speedlites can work just as well as monolights in certain situations, but you pay a hefty premium for the added portability. IMHO, Speedlights and monolights are merely different tools for different situations. One isn't necessarily as substitute for the other, and arguing that one is better than the other is silly.

EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Mark III ISO 100 RAW's - NEW
« on: March 08, 2012, 05:12:57 PM »
I've done my share of criticizing Canon lately, and have the smites to show for it, but I don't understand what the whining is about. The sharpness of the raw files compare favorably to my 5DC and 1DsIII. Hit it with a quick unsharp mask, and the images are tack sharp. As others have suggested, if the jpegs are too soft for your fancy, then crank up the in camera sharpening.

Canon General / Re: Ebay items from Hong Kong?
« on: March 07, 2012, 08:08:32 PM »
I forget the name of the seller, but I bought what was supposedly a brand new OE Canon battery from a Hong Kong retailer. The thing was junk. It was obviously used, the packaging was fake, and the battery wouldn't hold a charge.

EOS Bodies / Re: New 1D X Sample Images
« on: March 07, 2012, 03:47:37 PM »
Can't really tell from this limited sample set, but I'm not seeing much of a difference in ISO performance between the 1Dx and 5DIII.

I'm going to plagiarize myself from another thread, but I think your assessment is spot on.

I'm far from the best photographer out there, but I'm fortunate enough to earn a living doing this. From a creativity and logistical execution standpoint, I find the low-light and dynamic range limitations of the current crop of DSLRs are far more of hindrance than the sheer number of megapixels that are available. Most pro photogs I know fall into this same category. It doesn't mean we're better than anyone else or that our needs are more important than that of the average hobbyist. It's just the predicament we find ourselves in most of the time. I think Canon knows this, and geared the 5DIII for this market segment instead of catering to pixel peepers.

Even so, I do acknowledge that the truly bad@ss mofos in this business (commercial photogs, high-end fashion photogs, etc) really do need a ton of resolution. From what I've observed, however, they have so much budget at their disposal that they're already shooting medium format. We're talking guys that show up to a shoot with two 18-wheelers full of equipment and a dozen assistants. These are guys with so much budget, a lot of them don't even own their equipment. They just rent out gear, and bill their clients for it. I'm sure the form factor and convenience of a 35mm body would be appealing for them if the resolution and IQ were up to snuff. That said, this elite realm of photography represents such a small percentage of the market that I don't think there's a sense of urgency to prioritize the development of such a product. For every commercial photog I know, there are 100 "run-of-the-mill" pros (OK, that's not a scientific number, but you get the idea) who do well, but just aren't one of the elite bad@sses, or care for the lifestyle required in that realm of photography.

That's not to say Canon won't develop a mp monster, but considering the specs of the 1Dx and 5DIII, they obviously felt the bulk of the market wanted all-around performers with great low-light abilities.

EOS Bodies / Re: New Canon 5D mark III raws
« on: March 06, 2012, 10:39:33 PM »
I've spent way more time pixel peeping than I care to admit, but these raw files are very promising. With some noise reduction and a quick unsharp mask, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot at ISO 12,800 for images that will be printed at 5x7 or smaller. There's still plenty of detail. Heck, the jpegs look pretty good, too.

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