Messages

61

EOS Bodies / Re: [Poll] Canon Reign Supreme Again?

« on: November 06, 2012, 07:08:40 AM »

I use auto-ISOs so don't see what the fuss is about. All of Canon's gear is rated for ISO 9001 at least, check the following link:
http://www.canon-europe.com/About_Us/sustainability/business/iso_9001/

The fuss is about when you are comparing  high iso ,noise, resolution the parameters must be the same, and Canon has a  tradition to need  longer exposure time even if the ISO and  target is the same. If you are shooting sports, flying birds  it is easy to understand that 1/1600sec gives better results than 1/790sec.

But Canon is guaranteed to ISO 9001, those shots are only 6400? My Canon goes to 25600, although I've never used that setting in case it's against warranty to exceed the guaranteed amount. Plus for birds and sports you can just wait for nesting / half-time etc, so I still don't see your point.

The point is that you can newer compare to different cameras and not have the sam time / f-stop and that Canon needs more lights in a given situation as you can se from the pictures before and from I-R
AND when the discussion  started some people claim that  5dmk3 had better high iso qualities, and I said no, not with the same parameters and the pictures are presented in the same size. After 12800iso the d800 start to loose in comparison to 5dmk3
 

62

EOS Bodies / Re: [Poll] Canon Reign Supreme Again?

« on: November 06, 2012, 06:22:30 AM »

I use auto-ISOs so don't see what the fuss is about. All of Canon's gear is rated for ISO 9001 at least, check the following link:

http://www.canon-europe.com/About_Us/sustainability/business/iso_9001/

The fuss is about when you are comparing  high iso ,noise, resolution the parameters must be the same from d800 and 5dmk3 as one example , and Canon has a  tradition to need  longer exposure time even if the ISO and  target is the same. If you are shooting sports, flying birds  it is easy to understand that 1/1600sec from Nikon  gives better results than 1/790sec from Canon.
We have a so to speak  one  "Canon ISO and a Nikon ISO"  and they are not including the same parameters .

You can go through all Canon cameras at I-R and the same test target and compare the exposure time that Canon must have in comparison to Nikon .
So before you people are talking about noise in higher iso, look at the parameters time/f-stop  for that given iso and from the cameras, in this case there  is 1 stop difference.
In 1dx and d4  case there are little less.

Kaksi poroa istuu puussa, ja yksi sanoi, damn mitä olen jäädyttämistä.

 

63

EOS Bodies / Re: [Poll] Canon Reign Supreme Again?

« on: November 05, 2012, 10:00:40 PM »

Here is the difference in exposure time, 6400iso  and from 5dmk3 and d800, as you all can se Canon are exposed much longer than Nikon, Canon can not hold the iso against the test target and needs longer exposure.
Not good

64

EOS Bodies / Re: [Poll] Canon Reign Supreme Again?

« on: November 05, 2012, 09:43:15 PM »

So if you will discuss high iso reproduction , noise and resolution  with me ,first  look after that Canon  have been exposed the same time as Nikon, Canon can not have a longer exposure time ,  and sometimes a whole Stop more and then call it for example 12800iso , when in fact it is 6400iso

Jukka

65

EOS Bodies / Re: [Poll] Canon Reign Supreme Again?

« on: November 05, 2012, 09:38:11 PM »

Also  the two pro cameras exposed completely different
Canon 1DX exposed much longer compared to Nikon
We are comparing "Canon" ISO   and " Nikon" ISO  and the results of the test target

66

EOS Bodies / Re: [Poll] Canon Reign Supreme Again?

« on: November 05, 2012, 09:11:48 PM »

Aha
I see no difference from the two cameras and raw files if  the images are presented in the same size and higher iso and we have them both in the company

Aha, indeed.  So, you show William Claff's data to support your argument that there's no difference in high ISO DR between the cameras, and I point out that his data also show there is a read noise advantage for the 1D X at midrange ISO values.  You now show DxOMark data that there's no major SNR difference between the 1D X and D800 at those ISO values, refuting Claff's data.  But, then...what does DxOMark say about the DR difference at high ISO?  They say the 1D X has an advantage in DR at higher ISOs.

How do you say in Finnish, "You can't have your cake and eat it too?"

You are choosing data to support your point, but ignoring data from the same sources that refute other points.  I know scientists who do that very same thing, and I don't respect their objectivity or conclusions.

I was showing values from Claff and DXO and as you can se that d800 and 5dmk3
are  similar at high iso.
I-R has raw files from the two , but be sure that you are  selecting the right one, Canon 5dmk3 has at 12800iso the same time and f-stop that nikon has at 6400Iso. 1 stop difference and  Canons  6400iso  has been exposed after 1/790sec .  So if you shall compare them you must  compare Canon 12800 fejk iso  with Nikons 6400iso and there you have the same parameters regarding  time and f-stop . d800 to the right
so be carefully when you are talking about high iso results  and the parameters are not the same

67

EOS Bodies / Re: [Poll] Canon Reign Supreme Again?

« on: November 05, 2012, 08:13:02 PM »

Then you are looking at noise reduction, no way that d800 has more noise from 400iso  and up to 6400iso than 1dx

et näe metsää puilta

Maybe the forest can't be seen for the trees, because you're showing a picture of skyscrapers and not trees?  You are posting about high ISO noise, then showing data about dynamic range (calculated as full well minus read noise).  Read noise contributes to the DR calculation, but there are more factors that contribute to high ISO noise than just read noise, and Shooter is actually looking at real-world images - something that must carry significant weight in this discussion.  Even then, if you look at Claff's read noise vs. ISO plot (which is far more relevant to this discussion), you'll see that between ISO 500 and ISO 4000, the 1D X has lower read noise than the D800.  You might also try showing the D800, not the D800E, since the former is the camera under discussion (although the differences are minor, the D800E has a slight advantage in most measurements, which is perhaps why some people choose to show those data instead, to accentuate any differences with other models).   I wonder why you opted to show the less relevant DR data to support your point, instead of the more relevant read noise data, which are entirely consistent with Shooter's statements based on real-world observations, but with which you disagree?

Aha
I see no difference from the two cameras and raw files if  the images are presented in the same size and higher iso and we have them both in the company

parempi olla hyvä kamera kädessä kuin kaksi kaulassa

68

EOS Bodies / Re: [Poll] Canon Reign Supreme Again?

« on: November 05, 2012, 05:00:29 PM »

Then you are looking at noise reduction, no way that d800 has more noise from 400iso  and up to 6400iso than 1dx

et näe metsää puilta

69

EOS Bodies / Re: [Poll] Canon Reign Supreme Again?

« on: November 05, 2012, 01:03:23 PM »

So interchangeable cameras sales are up 26% compared to same period last year and  lenses are up 21%.
Which is pretty amazing stuff.

Amazing, indeed.  Out of the past 20 quarters, how many more than this last one has Nikon outsold Canon in the dSLR market segment?  More importantly, how many more quarters like this last one are needed for Nikon to overcome their significantly lower dSLR market share, after losing it to Canon repeatedly over the past several years?

I know it's not possible, that's why the sentence is started with the word "if". And no it's not personal bias.

You're right, that part wasn't biased, though it was a pretty big and fanciful 'if'.  But this part:

It's more logical that the low ISO performance is great than that the high ISO performance is great.

...makes the assumption we can all shoot at low ISO most of the time, as you apparently can (and here I'm assuming that with current FF sensors, ISO 1600 isn't 'high').  For those of us that routinely need to shoot at greater than ISO 3200, your logic doesn't apply. That's the bias to which I was referring.

Ideally, we'd have great performance at low and high ISO, and everyone would be happy. That's solidly in the fanciful land of 'IF' for now.

What guarantees the number of sold cameras? VW Beatle was the best-selling car for a long time, I've never owned one but I have had many  Mercedes, BMW, etc. If this would be a measurement  of something then  should I buy a Toyota next time


kulhon Mitä helvettiä me juominen tai puhu

70

EOS Bodies / Re: [Poll] Canon Reign Supreme Again?

« on: November 03, 2012, 07:57:36 PM »

That's easy. The one with which my US$30,000 worth of Canon lenses are compatible.

but you can also put them on a Nikon, okey you lose AF but you have the choise to a better sensor world

How can one mount a lens designed for a 44mm flange focal distance on a body with a 46.5mm flange focal distance, and maintain infinity focus?  You can mount Nikon lenses on Canon bodies, but not the reverse.

 sorry I have  to much vodka, and I changed the message as you can se
Se oli looginen ristiriita
terävöittää terät lumimyrsky
Jukka

71

EOS Bodies / Re: [Poll] Canon Reign Supreme Again?

« on: November 03, 2012, 07:53:49 PM »

After EOS 1DX's trashing of D4 and 5D Mark III's victory over D800, will 6D destroy D600 for a complete FF sweep?

Hmm. I had to chuckle when I read this.

When the actual (not rumored) DxO scores for the 1DX came out, it turned out that the D4 has a better sensor after all.
Both the D800 and D600 have better sensors than the 5DIII as well.

So, not seeing how Canon is trashing Nikon. It's actually the opposite.

Also, the quarterly results for the last quarter show that Nikon's sales are up, while Canon's sales are down.
Again, how is Canon trashing Nikon when Nikon is gaining market share and Canon is losing???

I'm a Canon shooter, who has spent thousands of $$$ on Canon gear.
I find Canon's recent products very disappointing, since they are either underspec'd or overpriced ... or both.



So, at this time I'm actually very glad that Nikon is trashing Canon.
Maybe someone at Canon's headquarters will finally take notice.

Nikon SLR  sales whent  up with 24%  but they are not big as Canon yet
nuolla ja kylmän teräksen, jos se on miinus 42 astetta
Jukka



72

EOS Bodies / Re: [Poll] Canon Reign Supreme Again?

« on: November 03, 2012, 07:41:04 PM »

When the actual (not rumored) DxO scores for the 1DX came out, it turned out that the D4 has a better sensor after all.
Both the D800 and D600 have better sensors than the 5DIII as well.

So, not seeing how Canon is trashing Nikon. It's actually the opposite.

A camera is more than the sensor.  'Nuff said.

Even in Finland is this is true but which one  is  the better one?

That's easy. The one with which my US$30,000 worth of Canon lenses are compatible.

okey , I have both Canon and Nikon, the best from two worlds
Älä koskaan nukkua saunassa
Jukka

73

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon to start using 0.18um (180nm) process for FF?

« on: November 03, 2012, 07:36:20 PM »

Here in Findland Sony is very strong. I think we will se changes in the SLR  sellings this year  and canon are more  expensive than before  and it will punish them .

74

EOS Bodies / Re: [Poll] Canon Reign Supreme Again?

« on: November 03, 2012, 07:24:07 PM »

When the actual (not rumored) DxO scores for the 1DX came out, it turned out that the D4 has a better sensor after all.
Both the D800 and D600 have better sensors than the 5DIII as well.

So, not seeing how Canon is trashing Nikon. It's actually the opposite.

A camera is more than the sensor.  'Nuff said.

Even in Finland is this is true but which one  is  the better one?

Jukka

75

EOS Bodies / Re: 46.1mp Canon DSLR Previewed at PhotoPlus 2012? [CR1]

« on: November 03, 2012, 06:30:14 PM »

Finally some relative credible rumors and 16 bit. I believe will be in a 5D3 Body (not 1D) aimed directly to studio work. At those specs will be at around $ 5K.
For what i do... regarding photography... 46 MP is a blessing from haven

I really, really hope this will be true

Can I ask you why you believe that?

Hei siellä
Rune L, is it  you how  know Marcus L?