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Messages - moreorless

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EOS Bodies / Re: DSLR ? - thinking out loud ....
« on: July 18, 2014, 08:05:01 AM »
I imagine similar conversations took place in Britain in the 1960's when the first Japanese motorbikes arrived in the UK. At first they just weren't good enough, compared to Nortons and Triumphs. Early adopters were sneered at, the proud riders of Brit iron rumbled and roared into the distance (usually stopping around the corner to fix oiled plugs).

But the Japanese persisted and they got better, bit by bit. More Hondas and Kawasakis appeared and people started to actually enjoy them, their ease of use and their reliability gained supporters. The Brit manufacturers secure in the vocal support of their customers dismissed the upstarts.

As the product developed their handling improved, their performance improved - they were of course always more reliable.

Then another new generation of products arrived and suddenly they were faster, better handling and of course still more reliable and cheaper - much cheaper. Almost overnight the British bike industry disappeared, the manufacturers just couldn't grasp that people are ultimately pragmatic, often conservative but ultimately pragmatic.

Why buy a bike that is slower, doesn't handle or brake as well and is a hassle to own and use when compared to the new stuff and much more expensive? Answer only an idiot or sentimentalist would and there just weren't enough of those about to support an industry.

I own a Canon 60d, I'm pretty happy with it, but I'm thinking of upgrading, so I await the new 7D mk2 with interest. But I wonder how good will it be? How much better for example will it be compared to a Panasonic GH4?

It will definitely be a lot more expensive, the body will likely be 20% heavier and (assuming the 7D is an APSC) all of the lenses will be much larger.
So will the new Canon's feature set and image quality be a sufficient step above the GH4 to justify the cost and weight?

 Will  I go from my old Triumph to a flash Norton or jump for the Kawasaki?

You could of course just as easily point to many products that were talked up as likely to upset and existing market that roundly failed to do so, indeed Sony themselves have been behind two of the most famous ones in recent decades with Betamax and Minidiscs.

Where this question becomes relevant of course is whether it should inform your buying decisions today. In that reguard I have a lot more confidence that the EOS and F mounts will be well supported in 5 years than I do any current mirror less mount.

EOS Bodies / Re: DSLR ? - thinking out loud ....
« on: July 17, 2014, 01:21:15 PM »

Pretty good point but of course it all comes down to numbers.   Economics of scale and all of that.  Im a DSLR guy myself.  DSLR for Video and stills and have a BMCC as well for video only.  How large a market will FF have in 3-5 years and will it be large enough to merit continued investment?  I like your point and Im thinking that we might see a much smaller product line down the road if the demand shrinks more.

I worked for Apple for 15 years and I'm well aware of what technology can do and how focused companies like Apple are. Apple with a market cap 10x that of Canon and Nikon put together has no intention to pull back on developing what small mobile products can do.  Of course a smart phone is not a FF camera "Duh" ... but its all about market economics pure and simple.

Personally my view is that Canon have probably taken the right decision in trying to target video more with there very high end professional releases. For the amateur market I suspect that phones are "good enough" for more people than they are with stills simply because your looking at lower resolution output.

To me its looked like Canons tactics in recent years have generally been to target the high end markets with quality and the low end markets with price whilst tending to focus less attension on the middle. Honestly I cans ee the logic behind that too I think the "gadget" market is a very tough one to go after, you have consumers with limited amounts of money to spend who also demand constant advances.

Maybe the delays in getting large amounts of the 70D sensor made? maybe a decision to leave putting that sensor into a rebel for another year?

EOS Bodies / Re: DSLR ? - thinking out loud ....
« on: July 15, 2014, 02:35:22 AM »
“2013 was the worst year for the photography industry in a long long time (maybe even decades). After the official numbers have been published by CIPA (the Camera & Imaging Products Association)”


I truly believe that VIDEO has kept DSLR sales more robust then they might otherwise have been up till now.

Of course a smart phone is not an equal replacement for a DSLR.  Not sure who would think that.  But thats not the point.  The point is that enough customers feel that smart phones are good enough. That has clearly effected digital cameras sales across the board.   Oh and Apple and Samsung will keep improving their technology which will result in even more erosion of dedicated camera sales.

I'd argue this is probably the reason why Canon and Nikon have been investing more in their FF DSLR products over the last 2-3 years as there the area least likely to feel the pitch from improved phone cameras. Indeed I'd say mirrorless along with compacts is the area most likely to feel the pitch.

EOS Bodies / Re: DSLR ? - thinking out loud ....
« on: July 14, 2014, 03:31:34 AM »
I doubt if any of this comes as a surprise to Canon and Nikon – both long time leaders in the marketplace and no doubt well-positioned for the long haul. This is one reason why I personally would never consider any of their competitors for a primary system investment. (I would consider Fuji for a secondary system, but would not be buying into the system to the extent I have Canon or would do with Nikon).

I suspect theres a lot of truth in this, what many view as resting on their laurels is infact a decision not to over invest in a market that's inevitably going to contract.

Personally I still feel that a lot of mirrorless systems sales are exploiting a gap in the market that other products could target. Most obviously I think that fixed lens compacts have a lot of room to grow, for years they stayed with 1/1.7' sensors but now are rapidly advancing and provide real benefits over systems cameras when it comes to size saving. Equally I think both Canon and Nikon could look to market smaller but high quality DSLR bodies, something the size of the SL1 but with controls and build aimed at a higher end market.

Black & White / Re: Black and White Landscapes!
« on: June 30, 2014, 02:46:40 AM »

EOS Bodies / Re: Ye Olde Film Photography
« on: June 16, 2014, 02:21:21 AM »
The one I'm aware of is that as film was an expensive medium, that offered limited shots, the photographers took their time composing a shot, thinking through all aspects before pulling the trigger.

So that leaves us digital era photographers with a more reckless reputation with a less than meticulous approach towards composition.

If your talking a static scene I'd say the issue here is that a lot of film photographers incorrectly carry forward the idea that all time spent considering composition should be before a shot is taken. The reality is that digital has shifted the goal posts here, the ability to review images in the field can be used as a tool to devolp composition.

There are potential cost advantages with shooting larger format film and advantages in carrying a low value camera when shooting 35mm but I'm not sure I view film as the "learning tool" its often hyped as. To me alot of this seems more like gear lust in disguise combined with believe that just using a less popular medium/equipment will give added credibility to your work rather than actually improving that work.

EOS Bodies / Re: Debating on selling my 5D II and 35L/135L for a...
« on: May 29, 2014, 01:29:48 PM »
you may want to try the 6D first, and if you dislike it , then you might also want to try the A7.
I have the 6D , the A7R, the A7 and A7s on order, and  I am selling the A7R due to the terrible shutter shock and extremely slow AF.   but if you shoot msotly landscape or on tripod based apps, then there is nothing better than the Sony A7R.
I compared many times my D800E vs my A7R before I sold my last copy of D800E last month, and I know as opposed to some die-hard Nikon guys say, the A7R will always win over the D800E. That said , I do not shoot landscape but  mostly lowlight events, so I just prefer the A7 and 6D. if I use the A7R or D800E for lowlight handheld event use, then I almost always have to resample most of my 36mp imges at 18 or 16mp to reduce the purple noise in the shadow.  So for now I still use Canon sometimes Nikon too , but as  the next gen Sony A7 series camera gets similar quality AF system to the AF in the A6000, I will go all Son or the Sony A7 series + Panasonic GH4.  YMMV.

I'm say rambling advice from someone who guys and sells cameras like crazy is probably best avoided.

EOS Bodies / Re: Debating on selling my 5D II and 35L/135L for a...
« on: May 26, 2014, 05:20:45 AM »
I've been debating on this for a couple months now since I don't really use them for more than taking pictures of my kids and some occasional outings with our friends.  It is a pain to lug around with the battery grip and kids stuff and I don't feel like I'm really getting anymore good use of out if (although everytime I take a picture they come out AMAZING).  Anyone have any recommendations on something new? I haven't been following the mirrorless cameras much but they seem to be the 'next big thing'.  My only requirement is that the camera shoots in RAW as I love to edit photos and touch them up in Lightroom.

Mirrorless could be it. They have always been weak in the AF performance, but they are catching up. Check out this video, from TheCameraStoreTV, where they compare the newest mirrorless against each other, and have a Nikon D4S as a reference. Quite amazing and surprising! Photographing kids, AF performance is important.

Image quality should also be amazing.

Normally the camera store are very good but I can't say this test impressed me much, 100mm equivalent at F/4 in daylight with subjects moving in predictable ways isnt really much of a stress test even for non pro users.

Lenses / Re: EF-S 10-18 f/4.5-5.6 IS STM Image Samples
« on: May 16, 2014, 11:22:32 PM »
Again my guess is that this lens isn't really aimed at existing 10-22mm owners, in the US your looking at double the price for that lens relative to the 10-18mm.

The 10-18mm seems best matched for rebel users and I think its allowed Canon to get a march on its rivals here as up until now UWA has always been priced at a premium on ASPC or indeed m43.

Lenses / Re: EF-S 10-18 f/4.5-5.6 IS STM Image Samples
« on: May 16, 2014, 01:55:09 PM »
looks like an excellent partner for the 15-85

I'm guessing more like an add on for the 18-55mm given the build and price.

Very smart move by Canon IMHO since by US prices especially(I won't be surprised to see UK prices come down to £260ish in a few months) its offering UWA cheaper than anyone else.

Lenses / Re: Sigma 24mm F/1.4 Art lens is apparently in the works!
« on: April 23, 2014, 01:07:38 PM »
Makes more sense to me as not only is the existing Sigma 85mm 1.4 a very good lens but so are the various options at F1.2, 1.4 and 1.8 from Canon and Nikon.

I can say as someone who owns the Sigma 24mm 1.8 that whilst its a competent wideangle closeup lens(I bought it for wideangle macro on the cheap) when it comes to wide open shooting its not a great performer and doesn't have sharp boarders even stopped down along way.

EOS Bodies / Re: Patent: Canon EF 24-70 f/2.8L IS
« on: April 21, 2014, 07:36:49 AM »
One thing to consider I spose is that the high res body is still rumoured to be on the horizon.

If we do ever see a 50ish MP FF camera then that's likely going to mean theres a market for some very high performance lenses, even the current 24-70mm might I'd guess fall short of the needs of some.

So perhaps the current 24-70mm 2.8 looking to target users who want the lower weight and perhaps a 24-70mm f/2.8 IS looking to target those who want performance for studio/landscape shooting even if it means a larger lens. If your shooting primes for stopped down sharpness rather than ultra large apertures then even a 24-70mm that weighs well over 1kg saves you a significant amount of weight.

With more and more info on the new Sigma 50 Art available, I´d say that Canon, Nikon and Zeiss really need to check up on their lens strategies. If Sigma delivers the same optical quality on more lenses and fix their bad (and deserved) AF reputation ...  ::)

I'd say Zeiss is likely hurting the most from the new Sigma 50mm, they've just released a very similar lens targeting wide open sharpness where as Canon and Nikon's lenses are either a lot smaller/cheaper or target other kinds of performance.

I'm not sure I see a massive market for a Zeiss 85mm 1.4 otus either personally given than Canon and Nikon's existing cast 85mm's both perform very well optically, far better than their 50mm lenses.

If theres a gap in the market right now I'd say its more for something like a 24mm 1.4 with excellent boarder performance for example.

EOS-M / Re: Canon EOS M3 in Q3 of 2014?
« on: April 18, 2014, 12:36:41 PM »
Looks like Canon is pasting feathers on a turkey hoping it will fly.  They ought to lay off the whole group that
worked on this - and then fire the management team that approved it.

I guess you missed the point that the EOS M was the second best-selling MILC in Japan (which alone accounts for >25% of the MILC market) last year, beating out all models by Fuji, Olympus, and Panasonic, and behind Sony's best-selling model by only a narrow margin.

But you didn't like it, so it was a failure.  ::)

..and I'd argue it was the Japanese(and Asian) market than the M system so far was really designed for. That market seems more akin to DSLR sales in the west with lower end bodies(accept these lower end bodies lack viewfinders) making up most of the sales. The smaller mirrorless markets in the west seem based more around high end bodies with viewfinders.

To me the real strength of the Canon M system so far looks to be its focus on getting core lenses "right". Even moreso than with ASPC DSLR's I think its a core of maybe half a dozen lenses that a system really depends on for 95% of its sales. The kit lens especially becomes important since for many more advanced zooms aren't just too expensive but too large yet Sony seems to have delibaretly underdesigned there kit lenses to force upgrades whilst Canon's is far superior optically. Add in the cheap and excellent 22mm f/2 and a reasonabley cheap(cheaper than any alternative) 11-22mm IS that's also optically excellent and I think you already have a strong core, add in a slow tele zoom and a macro and I think you have most users needs covered.

Get the 70D sensor/AF will obviously help the system a lot but I think that if they do release a viewfinder body they shouldn't aim too high. Something a bit larger with a viewfinder and a few more controls but that can when the launch price cools down play into the good value of the lens system.

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