Messages

46

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon to announce medium format dslr?

« on: August 08, 2012, 05:23:25 AM »

What would Canon bring to the MF digital market that is not there already, and would the resultant perceived value support pricing that would make the line profitable for Canon?

Folks get excited over the technical aspects of things, but one does have to remember that Canon is a money making concern, and unless the product can be supported by the market... its a no go.

I for one cannot see an "EF in crop mode" as part of any MF camera.   If you can afford the MF camera in the first place, and have the EF lenses to use in "crop mode", you almost certainly have a better performing camera body that accepts those lenses.

I can see a large number of things Canon could bring to medium format, most obviously a much lower price but also more advanced AF, faster FPS and liveview.

By far the most obvious EF lenses to use would be the TS-E's, very useful lenses for a high megapixels landscape/architecture shooters and MF current does not offer many options, espeically when it comes to lenses as wide as the 17mm TSE. The shift maybe somewhat limated but still provide a fair bit of use at a reasonable price by MF standards.

I would agree with the earlier posts that a MF mirrorless would be the most interesting option, espeically if Canon is looking for a mass market at a lower(sub £5000 anyway) price for rich amatures aswell as pros.

47

Lenses / Re: New 17-55 coming soon?

« on: August 01, 2012, 12:16:15 PM »

Performance wise there doesnt seem to be much need to update it to me.

The main reason for a new version would I'd say be is Canon push a new 7D more up market and they want a professional lens with tougher build and weather sealing to go with it.

If a new version does appear with any significant changes I think you can be pretty much certain the price will rise alot so your not likely to loose out much by buying the lens now.

48

EOS Bodies / Re: More Coverage of the Canon EOS M

« on: July 24, 2012, 06:46:26 PM »

Interesting, maybe rebels will be ef-m mount.  Maybe the beginning of the end for ef-s has arrived?

Think about it: what is there that a camera with an EF-S mount can do that one with an EF-M can't? Have an optical viewfinder. What can an EF-M mount camera do that an EF-S mount can't? Use EF-M lenses and be really small and lightweight. For the Rebel crowd, the latter is going to trump the former by a huge margin -- and, for the remainder, there's always the ##D and above (which is where you have to go to get a useable viewfinder in the first place).

Cheers,

b&

That doesnt make alot of sense to me, for a an entry level SLR to use an EF-M mount you'd need to get rid of the mirror to allow for the smaller flange distance anmd then its no longer an SLR.

49

EOS Bodies / Re: could the new EF-M mount support FF sensors too?

« on: July 24, 2012, 06:10:32 AM »

The enigmatic individuals who'd prefer to spend their money on a FF mirrorless rather than a 5Diii would only want small, high quality primes specifically designed for the body.  They're not concerned with DSLR usability. Their driving desire would be unparalleled image quality.  They'd see some form of EF compatibility as a bonus, but not the be all and end all.  They would accept that mirrorless models are a new camera system and wouldn't take full compatibility for granted.

In the past, there have been camera systems designed around only a few lenses that have sold in sufficient quantities to make it worthwhile.  My Mamiya 6 is one.  It only comes with a 50mm, 75mm and 150mm.  (Essentially 30mm, 45mm and 90mm in FF equivalents).  The Mamiya 7 only has six lenses.  I'd see a Canon FF mirrorless as the modern day equivalent.  It would only need a few top quality lenses to gain a lot of interest.

I'd potentially take the comparison further and say that if Canon were to look at a larger sensor mirrorless it might well be a medium format system aimed as you say at those who want the highest possible IQ in a compact hand holdable package(Samsung have already built such a system so its hardly pie in the sky). Like the Mamiya 6 and 7 as the format gets larger cutting out the mirror naturally saves more space and the userbase don't generally demand the same large range of lenses than FF DSLR users expect.

The lenses for such a system would really be too expensive for there to be much of a market for them on an ASPC sized system anyway so backwards compatability doesnt seem like a big issue to me. Being able to use EF lenses on a mirrorless is I'd say a bigger issue since its questionable how large the market for dedicated quality mirrorless lenses is, you look somewhere like amazon and sales of everything but 1-2 pancakes and budget telezooms are very very low indeed compaired to SLR lenses.

50

EOS Bodies / Re: No Full Frame EOS-M EVER?

« on: July 24, 2012, 03:17:47 AM »

This arguement actually seems backwards to me, the real disadvanatge of the Canon M mount being ASPC only is that should they introduce a FF mirrorless its lenses will not be backwards compatable. Any M mount lenses they release arent going to be compatable with FF anyway due to the smaller image circle.

Personally my feeling has always been that if Canon do produce a larger sensor mirrorless its actually more likely to be medium format than FF. That would impact on there existing FF SLR business far less, offer greater size saving than the MF SLR alternatives and service a market that doesnt need as diverse a range of lenses.

51

EOS Bodies / Re: Poll: What will be the price of first EOS M?

« on: July 22, 2012, 08:02:50 AM »

My guess:
Body only 549 or 599
Adaptor: +149
2.0/22mm: +249
4.0/18-55: +399

18-55: f/4.0 is just my GUESS - Canon has to take some advantage off a new mount system - as we can see for the 2.0/22mm lens

The problem there though is that your not really offering a budget kit zoom which is really the lifeblood of an entry level system be it mirrorles sor DSLR.

My guess is Canon will view the 22mm as there systems key advanatge over Sony, beyond that I think a small/cheap ultrawide zoom perhaps makes more sense.

52

EOS Bodies / Re: Poll: What will be the price of first EOS M?

« on: July 22, 2012, 07:58:34 AM »

Figure a reasonable price and double it.
$599 X 2 + $1195 for the kit with 22mm lens and M to EF adapter..

You think they can make it 300$ above the T4i kit and a 100$ above 60d kit?
Looking at initial poll votes we can see, how unpredictable this product is

Very possibly.  If the G1X is priced at $800, the mirrorless APS-C with interchangable lens ($200) plus M to EF Adapter ($200) will cost a bundle.  I do not expect a body only version, since a lens or at least M to EF adapter is needed and no one has any lenses that fit it right now. I would not consider a body only at first.

Compare it with other Mirrorless Cameras, not DSLR's.  Thats why Canon is releasing a mirrorless, they seem to be made of gold, and Canon is not going to let Sony or Fujii out price them.  Unfortunately, Nikon 1 with its tiny sensor V1 does not compete.

Sony Nex 7 Kit $1349  http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Compact-Interchangeable-Camera-18-55mm/dp/B005IKZU8O/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1342828726&sr=1-1&keywords=nex+7+sony
 
Fujii X100 Black kit $1599 ($1199 std kit)  http://www.amazon.com/Fujifilm-X100-Digital-2-8-Inch-Special/dp/B006UL2VKK/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1342828832&sr=1-2&keywords=fuji+x100

I see it as a rather different situation to the X100/X1pro though, Fuji was offering an even more prenium version of an already prenium product, Canon's mirrorless looks to be less prenium than the G1X in many reguards, worse lens, fewer manual controls, no viewfinder etc.

I wouldnt be supprized if they price in pretty highly at launch(dropping alot within 6 months) to cash in on the mirrorless fadsters but $1200 seems excessive to me, I'd expect $800 to be the top end of the pricing with either the 22mm or 18-55mm in a kit, perhaps with a more expensive one with both and an EF adaptor aswell.

53

EOS Bodies / Re: first pic of canon mirrorless?

« on: July 21, 2012, 04:48:47 PM »

Also, EVFs and LCDs will never replace optical.  For me its so unbelievably different viewing through an EVF compared to an Optical one.  I bought my Fuji X100 and X Pro 1 for this reason.  Compared to the other offerings, these gave me more of everything I wanted in a small package.  Its the same reason shooting with a Hasselblad V series (501 CM) is so 'magical'.

To me this has always seemed like trying to reinvent the wheel, granted I can see that for some people there maybe worthwhile reason to give up the mirror but I find it hard to see an EVF ever offering the same resolution, update and contrast that an OVF can.

54

EOS Bodies / Re: first pic of canon mirrorless?

« on: July 21, 2012, 04:31:46 PM »

Nothing lasts forever, but they can sure stick around a long time. Look at Leica... they carved out a niche and are doing ok out of it. Even *if* mirrorless takes over the market served by lower level DSLRs, I think there's enough niche for higher end DSLRs to survive for the foreseeable future. If you need digital full frame, there's only 3 real choices at the moment, Canon, Nikon and Leica. I'm leaving out Sony for now as I believe their full frame models are discontinued pending replacement. Canon and Nikon are both rumoured to be bringing out cheaper full frame bodies so that will help too. Maybe, some day in the very distant future, there'll be more mirrorless full frame systems too. But it might be too little too late as "good enough" of smaller sensors will do for the masses, leaving full frame as another Leica-like niche.

Then there's also the chance that a future technology renders what we know as photography right now obsolete.

My guess is that if a mirrorless FF system does appear it will be more in the image of Leica(mostly primes and maybe a few smaller slow zooms with limated range), theres no way high quality zoom lenses would ever balance well on it.

Also as far as sensor design goes my guess is that optics are going to increasingly become a barrier, the most recent 24MP ASPC sensors can't produce maximum boarder to boarder sharpness on anything but a handful of lenses. Optics arent advacing at anything close to the same rate that sensors are those advances come at the cost of ever higher prices.

If you want boarder to boarder sharp 40 MP images my guess is that your going to need to go FF for the foreseeble future. I think theres a significant market for that kind of resolution aswell as the D800 has showed when the price is at a reasonable level.

Canon seem to be looking more at the reduced pixel count for bigger photosites.

My guess is that this is partly linked to optics, if you go much beyond 18 MP I think you'll see flaws in alot of there current lens lineup start to stand out much more clearly.

55

EOS Bodies / Re: first pic of canon mirrorless?

« on: July 21, 2012, 03:30:15 AM »

I wonder what the camera/lens exteriors are going to be made out of? the thing that jumps to mind is obviously cheap plastic but looking at those pics it does seem to have much more of a sheen look to me than is typical for Canon's other plastic lenses. Given that this mirrorless seems to be very much aiming for the NEX I wouldnt actually be supprized if it and the lenses have metal exteriors.

If the G1X is $709, just imagine the price on this thing. Darn. It better be made by the hands of angels if they expect more money than that.

The G1X has a much larger body with a viewfinder, more manual controls and a bright/long lens built in. While I'd guess Canon will try to sell this for a similar kind of price I doubt it will be $1000, even if it is mirrorless prices generally seem to fall much faster than DSLR prices.

56

EOS Bodies / Re: first pic of canon mirrorless?

« on: July 20, 2012, 05:09:05 PM »

Besides the possible sensor size one detail I do notice is that theres a round space behind the mount which could allow for the very close backfocus distances that were rumoured a few months ago with the mirrorless 18-55m patent.

57

EOS Bodies / Re: first pic of canon mirrorless?

« on: July 20, 2012, 04:53:08 PM »

But if this is for the P&S market, you need a compact zoom lens not a prime.  I still say the P&S market is better served with fixed zoom larger sensor compacts (ala RX100).

I'd say a 35mm equivilent prime may well find a significant market, the problem with the NEX and Nikon 1 pancakes is that they were both too wide for general use and not that fast.

58

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS-M Actual Sizes - Sensor size same as G1X

« on: July 20, 2012, 04:38:37 PM »

I still wait until some funny troll would prepare some good fake photos for the next announcement. If it was the case now, on Mondat they'd have sooo much fun with all these measures and assumptions.

You'd still expect the "blue" to have the same aspect ratio as the actual sensor though and that "blue" looks 3:2 to me not 4:3.

59

EOS Bodies / Re: A Bit of Mirrorless Informaton [CR3]

« on: July 20, 2012, 07:27:25 AM »

no viewfinder at all??   

is this camera aimed at mobile phone user or photographer?
so canon is not getting any money from me this year......

i need a viewfinder.
not one LCD i have seen so far does a good job in bright daylight.
hell they are totally useless on a sunny day, or not?
im always searching some shadowed area to chimp or have an look at the histogram.

I think thats exactly who its aimed at, marketing will always hype these cameras as "an alternative to a DSLR" simpley because it makes them sound like a higher end product but the majority of the market is I'd say people who would otherwise be using a compact or a phone in a given situation.

There have been a few rumours of another higher end mirrorless latter in the year and I'd guess that will be aimed more at photographers with an EVF and more manual controls.

60

EOS Bodies / Re: first pic of canon mirrorless?

« on: July 20, 2012, 06:37:33 AM »

I think this is pretty awesome. Aps-c and a 35mm f/2 FOV in a tiny body.  That's all I need canon! Now if it's 599$ with body and 25mm f/2, I'll buy it at launch but I doubt that price tag knowing canon.

Indeed, I'm supprized that no system besides m43 has managed to offer a relatively compact prime in this range with f/2 or better.