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Messages - moreorless

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EOS Bodies / Re: Canon's answer to the D800E
« on: March 06, 2012, 03:37:53 AM »
But for landscape work where corner sharpness is important, it may be that you really have to go to medium format to get 40+ megapixels resolved with good quality.

It shall be interesting to see how the D800 will perform in landscape photography with the Nikon lens lineup.

*nods* I am wondering how far from a cap on MP we are with FF cameras.  While new lenses can always be produced I would wager they would get progressively more expensive to produce, and of course people like being able to use old glass.

I would not be surprised if Canon/Nikon/Sony/etc start looking into other ways to get high MP like titled sensor + MF lenses or something.  If they could find a way to bring the price down there is quite a bit of pent up demand for MF cameras that is not willing to pay the much higher cost of current digital backs.

Couldnt border performance be potentially improved by increasing the size of the image circle? perhaps thats actually what the new 24-70 does hence the larger front element ahd high price?

Simple question. Can a full frame mirrorless deliver the same IQ, ISO-noise, color and contrast as a full frame DSLR?

You could of course have something like the K-01 and merely remove the mirror on an existing FF camera while keeping the DSLR mount and flange distance.

The main probablem with smaller flange distances to me seems to be with wide lenses, from what I'v read digital sensors cannot handle light hitting them at as oblique an angle as film did which makes boarder performance a challange.

IMHO the 5D line was a landscape and studio camera. So if you take the pixel pitch of a 7D and move it to FF you'd end up in the 40MP range and that's where I would have like to see it. Are your 7D images not detailed enough? don't you sing praises to them all the time? so yeah, hate to break it to you but your lenses are more than up to the task. I would have liked to maximize them.

In terms of specs perhaps it was but in terms of who was buying it I'd say probabley not, many users who wanted the IQ but couldnt afford a 1Ds mk2/mk3 probabley went for 5D's inspite of rather than because of the basic AF and low FPS.

A crop body is only going to test the sweet spot of a lens aswell and boarder performance is obviously going to be a big part of any landscape system. Seeing how the D800/D800E perform with Nikons lenses is really going to be a desider for me.

the new 5D is more of a sports/action body. while it is perfectly ok for other uses, it simply didn't push the bounds. If you shot landscapes or studio where ISO and FPS aren't a top priority, you got 1 more MP for 1000 more dollars and that's about it.

I'd say its more of an all rounder in the mold of the 1Ds mk3.

I'd guess that either we'll see a new Canon body specifically targetting landscape/studio use or Canon have given up on this market believing that either its lenses arent up to it or its simpley too small with MF above.

EOS Bodies / Re: Which Body follows next?
« on: March 03, 2012, 10:18:45 AM »
The 650D would probabley be the answer you get from most but really I'd say its anyones guess given how the asian distasters seem to have mixed up the schedule.

EOS Bodies / Re: I hope 5dx , 45 million pixels
« on: March 03, 2012, 10:16:42 AM »
there is no 5DX guys....

Obviously not in the near future but I'd be supprized if Canon gave up on megapixels and Nikon gave up on an affordable all rounder.

EOS Bodies / Re: 5d MK IV
« on: March 03, 2012, 09:54:10 AM »
Should I hold off for one or get the Mkiii?

EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Mark III Sample Images
« on: March 02, 2012, 02:15:58 AM »
I'm surprised Canon actually has so many samples.  Why didn't they do this with the 1DX  in fact, the 1DX still has less samples out there.

I'd love it if the shots from the guy who was spotted with the 5D Mark III last month appeared in there!  ;)

The 1DX looks like it will ship after the 5D mk3, I'd guess it was annouced early to get more hype as the flagship and to allow pros to plan for its purchase.

I'd guess that Canon's view is that the 5D mk3 is a departure for the line bringing in features that had previously only been on offer with the 1Ds hence thinking they can get away with a higher price.

Another thing to consider is I'd say that the generations between cameras seem to be getting longer amd higher launch price gives more room for price drops over an extended lifetime. If the 5D mk3 is say $500 cheaper this time next year then the perception of value will likely be greater than if it had launched at that price and stayed there, meanwhile Canon will be bringing in larger profits from early adopters who'll probabley buy reguardless.

EOS Bodies / Re: If this is the best the D800 can do...
« on: March 01, 2012, 02:00:50 PM »
You've posted this before but on a pixel by pixel basis it does seem pretty clear that more megapixels = worse ISO performance on sensors of the same size and technology.

Care to cite some proof of that? I can't find any...

D3s vs D3X? obviously not idenetical techology but sensors the same size produced around the same time.

EOS Bodies / Re: So, what about the T4i?
« on: March 01, 2012, 09:09:06 AM »
I'm waiting for 650D too.

One question about XXXD line. If it is a line for photographers-beginners (or amateurs with little money), then why they should require so many megapixles?
Aren't megapixels for studio (or landscape) photographers, who can shoot REALLY well and make money on this?
What is the profit of 18 mp if a person can't shoot well?

Further more, 18mp require really good AF (if one shoots portraits), very good lenses (calibrated in service-centre), micro AF adjustment (which is missing in XXXd) and good patience when pictures are somewhat out of focus.

Am I the only one who sees that xxxd line is not "well balanced" in terms of feautures and target audience?

Most of the time I shoot in clubs, I need clean high iso, accurate AF, excellent background blur => "sports camera" is for me, however, there is not a single canon camera that is targeted for such audience under 1Dx :(((

I'd guess most manifacturers feel that such users are likely to buy higher end bodies such as the 7D which wasnt "bad" at high ISO when released. If Canon do carry on the 7D, xxD and xxxD lines I wouldnt actually be supprized to see them carrying different sensors with the 7D sticking at 18 MP for improved ISO while the other two get 20+ megapixels.

I do think theres a market for a smaller DSLR with features similar to the 7D though, espeically as we see camera slike the Fuji X1pro and the NEX 7 targetting the higher end crop market with small bodies. The xxxD's were well suited to competing with existing M43 and the lower end NEX's but they arent really offering an alternative to these newer mirrorlesses.

EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Mark III Full Spec List?
« on: March 01, 2012, 08:54:12 AM »
So if the native ISO is 2 stops higher then the D800s, what do we think this means in practice?
really? what do you think it means? we can take cleaner pictures is lower light.

I'd guess he means what do you think it will mean to ISO performance at the settings the D800 and the 5D mk3 will share.

EOS Bodies / Re: If this is the best the D800 can do...
« on: March 01, 2012, 02:50:19 AM »

I don't understand the language, but I'm assuming D800 samples reduced to 1600px. If this is the best this camera can do at ISO 1600+, the 5D MkII has nothing to fear let alone the Mk III!

I have the 5D2 and I think this is about 1/2 to 2/3 stop better than the 5D2 can do.
Hopefully the 5D3 has improved to at least this level to. I don't really expect it to be better since we are closing up to what is physically possible to do.
(a 100% efficiency FF sensor would probably be about 1 stop better than D800 so there is not much room for improvement)

Not sure what's wrong with your 5D2 then, because mine is at least 1/2 stop better than this at 1600+. That said the D800 is 36MP, so 1/2 stop worse than 5D2 is still an incredible achievement for Nikon. Just don't expect the D800 to be a low-light superstar, which is what I *AM* expecting the 5D3 to be. That - and video - will be the 5D3's trump cards in my opinion. As a professional wedding filmmaker and photographer, I know for fact my colleagues and I are going to lap up the Mk III if it improves on the Mk II in these aspects. Anything else is gravy. Nikon just can't compete when it comes to pro video on an SLR, and the early reviews of the D800's video capabilities (and quality) seem to pan this out.

Since you are talking about the number of pixels as they should have anything to do with low light capability it is obvious that you don't have any competence whatsoever in what you are talking about.
My guess is that the statement of your 5D2 is at the same lack of knowledge level.
If the 5D3 will have better or worse low light capability than D800 we don't know. We can hope for better but there is not any room to be a lot better. 0.5 stop would be amazing.
The only thing we know is that so far the D800 after D3s and D4 has the lowest high iso noise.

You've posted this before but on a pixel by pixel basis it does seem pretty clear that more megapixels = worse ISO performance on sensors of the same size and technology.

I personally do not buy the arguement that downrezing will always give equal or better results either, I'v seen more than a few NEX vs NEX 7 comparisons recently and the NEX 7 has looked significantly worst at higher ISO's even downrezed to 16 megapixels.

EOS Bodies / Re: NO 5dM3 On Friday * CONFIRMED By a canon Rep Today
« on: February 29, 2012, 04:38:17 PM »
I don't think they'd be building that massive stage in Shanghai just to announce B-list product.  We're gonna see 5D something.

exactly.  all that for the next digital Rebel?  because it's got ... what, a flip screen with 280 degrees of rotation instead of 270?  I think not... very excited to see what this serious looking stage is for.

Who says that both can't be announced on the same day? It wouldn't be unheard of.

If the T4I/650D is only a minor update then I would not be at all supprized to see it annouced at the same time as the 5D mk3 to get some reflected glory and bypass criticism.

EOS Bodies / Re: If this is the best the D800 can do...
« on: February 29, 2012, 04:27:59 PM »
The strength of the D800 is obviously its resolving power. Since it will mostly be favored by studio and landscape photographers, I don't see how its high-ISO performance is any important...

Given that theres no sign of Nikon releasing another "budget" FF body in the near future though it seems that this camera is aimed at more than just studio and landscape users.

As a potential buyer for the latter use the one thing that worries me isnt the ISO performance but that all the 100% views I'v seen so far look rather soft, the sensor outresolving the lens?

EOS Bodies / Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« on: February 28, 2012, 05:40:22 PM »
I'm inclined to think that they're not going to put the full bell's and whistle's focusing system of the D into the mkIII.. That would seem counter intuitive to marketing..  Clearly they would step up from the current 5Dii system, but they could take a lead from the 7D system and perhaps expand the number of points of that vs. a full 61 pt. system.  They've got to somehow not take away from the high end sales as well..   I'll start a new rumor here..  A 35 pt focusing system, selectable zones (like the 7D) and setting specific focusing points, also like the 7D.. maybe better metering of the points..  :-)   We'll see when we see, I guess.

Jay S.

In the past though there was a much stronger need to differentiate by AF system with the 1D line as ASPH which ment the 5D line had clear advanatges in some areas. With the 1DX those advanatges are likely gone leaving more of a list of pluses for the pro line.

My guess would be that the two AF systems will be very similar with the 5D mk3 lacking some of the more advanced programable modes and perhaps being a bit slower with reduced processing power.

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