Messages

466

EOS Bodies / Re: 1Ds Mark IV & 5D Mark III [CR0.5]

« on: September 15, 2011, 08:16:31 AM »

54MP?

Assuming square pixels, FF area of 864mm^2:
sqrt(864mm^2/54000000Px) = 4 micron pixels.
Not 4.##, but exactly 4. Suspicious.

Similarly, for 24MP sensor, pixels are _exactly_ 6 microns.

What you're missing is that the megapixel counts are never exactly "000,000".

21MP ends up being 21,123,456 or some other odd number. Thus the "suspicion" in the "exactly" 4 or 6 microns is a result of your math assuming perfect numbers that won't exist in reality.

Thats true is we were talking about real advertised MP stats but what were considering here is whether there is any truth behind a rumour and the fact exact numbers like 4 and 6 crop up does tend to hint agenst that for me.

467

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?

« on: September 13, 2011, 05:16:47 PM »

The end result is that Canon will lose sales by not being in the mirrorless market.  But will this impact on their overall profitability given that they will retain the higher end of the market?  Only a Canon exec would know the answer.

One thing that does stand out for me looking at somewhere like amazon's sales is that while NEX and micro 4/3rds bodies are selling well their lens sales are pretty pathetic compaired to Canon/Nikon.

I'v no idea how profit margins stand in those two areas but my feeling is that there probabley higher for lenses so perhaps this new market of "upgrading compact users" really isnt as rich as its made out to be?

I wouldnt be supprized if Nikon's shift down to a 2.6 crop is to try and bring down lens prices to a level where it creates more repeat buyer business. The common preception amoung new users does remain afterall that the body is the real investment but if you can get a user to buy say a cheaper tele zoom aswell as the kit he's more likely to buy an UWA, a macro etc.

468

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?

« on: September 11, 2011, 10:06:08 AM »

That's specifically the NEX largely because it doesn't have a very mature native lens selection. It's not true for mirrorless in general.

The new panasonic 14-42 X lens is under 100g. Put that on a GF3 and the package including the lens is lighter than a Canon G12 or about half the weight of a canon rebel with a  small prime attached.

The lens selection being small is a different issue to the lens size being far too large compaired to the body, I doubt we'll see a zoom much smaller than the 18-55 kit.

Personally I still feel the real answer to catering for the market of compact users wanting better image quality is pushing sensor size a bit further on bridge cameras. Most users are not IMHO going to be bothered about using speicalist lenses, they just want a decent normal zoom and I think theres a fair bit of zoom for someone like the S95 to have a larger sensor/lens while still being pocketable.

469

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?

« on: September 10, 2011, 04:09:21 AM »

I'd be more inclined to want perfect primes than a zoom, a high end Canon M9 competitor would be my first choice. Obviously I use the EOS system for work, but I've ordered a NEX-7 with a pancake lens as a replacement for the G12 which I hated so much I gave to a friends kid the other week. Felt kind of bad giving him such a terrible camera, but I figured he won't know the difference as it'll be his first proper camera.

With a M9 competator I wouldnt say the need for an "all prime" system is as great personally, the camera might be a bit more unbalanced with zooms but more serious photographers will be more used to that. With something like the NEX though your dealing with a more unbalanced system and comsumers less likely ro accept it, plus of course the difference between pocketable and not.

Thats I'd guess part of what is holding Canon and Nikon back, they want to let others test the waters and see whether amature comsumers are willing to unaccept either an unbalanced system or one based around primes.

470

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?

« on: September 09, 2011, 10:26:20 AM »

Nikon's system might not look the most exciting with the smaller sensor but I'm thinking it could proove to me well choosen. Large enough to potentially give noticeble benefits over bridge cameras but small enough to keep the lens size down to something pocketable.

If Canon put out something with a full crop sensor then personally I think they'd be better off focusing on a range of prime lenses.

471

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?

« on: September 09, 2011, 06:08:47 AM »

I have a 50d and got a Nex 7 in my hands some time ago. Yes the nex 7 is small and light as a PS but only with the smallest lenses. With a 18-55 it is already much bigger and with a 18-200 there is no advantage in size compared to a DSLR. For me (this is subjectiv) there is no advantage over a DSLR. If i need a small camera for my jeans pocket i would by a S95 which is impressiv in terms of image quality and low light ability at least for static subjects.

This to me seems like the major reason mirrorless hasnt had the dramatic impact many thought it would a few years ago, either you go with a smaller sensor and lose image quality or your left with massively outsized lenses like the NEX.

The real markets to me seem to be compact users wanting a bit of a step up in quality while retaining a pocketable camera and high end users wanting to cut down on the more extreme weight. Alot of the interest around the M9 seems to be based on size rather than users actually looking for manual focus and no zooms.  A Canon FF body the size of an xxxD with EF-S size lenses and a Fuji style hybrid viewfinder seems like it could be very sucessful to me.

472

EOS Bodies / Re: Having Multiple Camera Systems

« on: September 07, 2011, 07:07:26 AM »

What do you say about the following combination:

• Canon 600D + 50mm f/1.4 + 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II
• Panasonic GF3 + Lumix G X Vario PZ 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 + Leica Summilux DG 25mm f/1.4

For the Canon the main thing I'd say is that such a combination won't give you much width, the 600D is a crop sensor camera so 50mm will give you the same angle of view as 85mm would have on your old SLR. Personally I'd consider either a wider prime like the Canon 28mm 1.8 or the Sigma 30mm 1.4 on a 600D or go for a zoom like the Canon 17-55 2.8 IS,  if you really wanted a shallow depth of field maybe add a Canon 85mm 1.8 aswell.

What you don't say about your wife's use is how interested she is in image quality and manual controls. If she just wanted good compact quality pics in the smallest body possible and occasionally playing around with manual settings then the Canon S95 might suit her well. As small as a normal compact but with the image quality/low light performance of a bridge camera.

Alternatively if she did want the best image quality in a small package and manual controls what about the Fuji X100? Its only got a fixed 35mm lens but has crop DSLR standard image quality/low light performance in a reasonabley small stylish package.

I'm just thinking that if its you who really wants more versility on your camera then you might be better off getting a changeble lens camera and just get a fixed lens one for your wife.

473

EOS Bodies / Re: 1Ds Mark IV & 5D Mark III

« on: September 06, 2011, 11:54:51 AM »

We Canon users are becoming too used to making excuses for our brand, we have come to expect so little of Canon that we rejoice at any small mercy.  So let's have no more of this "as long as the 5D Mk3 has 9 cross type AF points I'll be happy", you deserve more from a camera that's going to cost well over $3000.

It surely depends on what your after, the D700 has lower resolution than then 50D which came out just a few months latter. You look at the alternatives and Canon seemed to offer more choice aswell, if you favour AF and FPS over resolution then the 1D mk3/4 where options, with Nikon if your looking for a higher resolution FF sensor you need to go all the way up the D3x.

474

PowerShot Cameras / Re: Fuji X10

« on: September 04, 2011, 08:32:26 AM »

Not really followed the high end compact market much but a 28-113 lens with F/2-2.8 and manual zoom seems like a significant upgrade on what we've seen before.

Can't say I know much about compact either sensors, this ones a bit larger than the Canon G series and Panasonic isnt it?

Add those two together and might this be one of the first compact zooms with useble narrow DOF, I.E. not having to get ultra close.

475

EOS Bodies / Re: The next body... (my speculations)

« on: September 03, 2011, 01:12:13 PM »

I'm betting theres a hefty amount of 7D buyers who lack indepth knowledge and choose there purchase based on hype skimming specs but even a "serious amature" may well deside he preffers a 650D with say 21 megapixels and better ISO performance for £300-400 less than a 7D.

The higher end models can to some extent have fluid pricing based on specs in reltion to each other but Canon are pretty much bound to having the entry level body around £600.

476

EOS Bodies / Re: The next body... (my speculations)

« on: September 03, 2011, 08:33:48 AM »

The thing is we can guess about the 7D's product cycle but the reality is that this will be the first time its ever been replaced so we don't know for sure.

I agree with your point about the current economic situation, Canon may well be thinking that delaying upgrades for awhile is a good thing as it allows them to drop their price point. The problem with the 7D though is I'd say that you do have that large amature market and alot of amatures arent tied to a system by lenses so competision from Nikon/Sony etc becomes more of a factor aswell.

477

EOS Bodies / Re: The next body... (my speculations)

« on: September 03, 2011, 02:23:46 AM »

Nothing in life is black and white, there are a whole range of skills and pricing points, to dismiss a 7D as an amateur camera is nothing but elitist rubbish, the same rubbish that convinces bad photographers that a better camera will improve their pictures...   If you have the eye for it, you can take a good photo with a camera phone as has been demonstrated in the photo threads by the chap posting as pinnacle photography, some great pictures taken with a pont and shot.

I didnt see anyone "dismiss" the 7D in any way, I merely commented that it sells mostly to amatures which going from what I'v read on the net seems to be correct, the 5D mk 2 sells mostly to amatures aswell and I wouldnt be shocked if even the 1D/1Ds is the same although it would likely be closer. For alot of amature shooters the 7D's features won't be essential, just something to weigh up agenst other areas and if the 650D/70D have a better sensor many will likely choose them instead.
 

With regard to sensors, any idea of the number of sensor production lines Canon have ? No ? Neither have I, but I'm damn sure that they don't have one line turning out one size,  I'd expect several lines pumping out different sizes, just as Intel and AMD do with CPU chips...    A quick search on google suggests the bulk price of APS-C sensors was about $70 in 2010, I'd expect that just like CPU's the fail rate goes up with more complex chips, thus as a line matures, the failure rate reduces, so a 18mpx chip today is cheap, two years back would have been expensive, Sony has just launched a 24mpx chip to mainstream products, that suggests to me that higher mpx chips are possible at a price premium.  Given the use of dual Digic 4 chips in higher end products, it's a fair assumption that this is a premium priced unit that differentiates the ranges, ramps up the price and makes it harder for a lesser single Digic equipped camera to compete...  I don't see a single Digic 5 based camera with a higher mpx sensor getting the frame rates that a dual Digic 4 can with a lower mpx sensor, thus a. 70D performing better than a 7D isn't likely and if technically possible, is likely to be crippled by Canon to protect the 7D

I'm sure you have evidence from Canon to prove me otherwise, but in all fairness, it's just my opinion vs another opinion and of course, we both see ourselves as being correctly informed.  I'll say it again, I don't see the 7DII coming anytime soon, or before a 650D, perhaps even a 70D...  Just go buy a 7D now, whilst they are cheap, because the new one will be 20-30% more expensive for a few months

We don't know for sure but the fact that Canon has slimed down sensor production to 3 units for DSLR's certainly seems to hint that economies of scale play a large part in there profits. When dealing with competision at the level were seeing in the DSLR market a difference of $10-20 on sensor production could make a big difference, plus the devolpment costs are also lessened.

I'm not commeting on whether people buying a 650D or 70D with a new sensor instead of a 7D would be making a wise move or not, many likely wouldnt be. That doesnt change that fact that a higher megapixel sensor in a lower body would more than likely lead to them doing so.

478

EOS Bodies / Re: The next body... (my speculations)

« on: September 02, 2011, 05:32:20 PM »

It doesnt "have to" but if the sensor is outspected by the 650D and/or 70D then its likely many people will buy those models instead.

Nonsense, people don't buy the 7D just for the sensor, by that logic why would anyone pay £1200 for the 18mpx 7D when they can get the 550D with the same 18mpx sensor for just over £500 !

It's like telling me to trade my 450D in for a Sony NEX5 because it's got a better sensor !  The 7D isn't a consumer camera, unlike the entry level models, it doesn't compete in the shop window on pixels per pound, number of fancy picture modes and meaningless word count on the camera body.

Someone in the market for a 7D isn't gonna cut a corner and say, damn, I'll take that fancy 22mpx Canon 650D and save the extra £600 !  They want a 7D for a specific job, that's better AF, faster frame rates, bigger picture buffer, built in flash transmitter, shared batteries with their 5DII, similar handling to their 5DII or any combination of he aforementioned.

I'll show my backside in Harrods window if a 7D appears this side of Xmas 2011, in fact, I'd be surprised to see a 7D before the 650D or 70D...   Common sense is heading towards a 1D(s) announced in Autumn ready for Winter, a 5D & 650D in spring 2012 (Olympic big sell on the 650D), I'd suggest a 70D by autumn 2012, with a new 7D sometime in the winter 2012/13

People obviously don't buy the 7D just for the sensor given that other crop models share it but I don't see whats unreasonable in thinking that if the 650D or 70D outspec it with a new sensor that will cost Canon 7D sales.

The fact is that most 7D buyers are amatures and for many/most of them its features are likely to be prefferable rather than essential. If other Canon crop models offer a superior sensor that will almost definately lead to some buyers going for them instead rather than paying a prenium for the 7D.

To have the lower end model include the high end models sensor at a later date isnt anything new, to have the lower end model preview that sensor is. It wouldnt just cost Canon 7D sales but might potentially damage the hype around the 7D mark 2 if its just going to be recycling a sensor form an entry level body.

479

EOS Bodies / Re: The next body... (my speculations)

« on: September 01, 2011, 05:16:01 PM »

I dont see why the 7D has to have a superior sensor ?  The 7D is a "pro" product with specialist AF, similar size to the 5DII and even shares the same batteries...  It's outside of the xxxD/xxD product cycle, so they could reasonably slip up tp 20-22mpx, leaving the 7D to leapfrog next year to 25-30mpx, leaving headway for a 700D/80D to mak a step to something in-between, thus allowing 2-3 steps between each new 7Dx model.

It doesnt "have to" but if the sensor is outspected by the 650D and/or 70D then its likely many people will buy those models instead.

One thing to consider with the 5D mk2 is the price its now at, a FF high megapixel body for £1500 new is potentially tapping into a different market than the pro bodies generally do and might do even moreso if it can go lower. Even if Canon isnt making much money on the body its potentially growing the FF lens buying market for the future in a way that a more expensive 5D mk3 might not.

480

EOS Bodies / Re: The next body... (my speculations)

« on: September 01, 2011, 10:18:43 AM »

The 650D will most likely be announced next year indeed, but of course it's going to be close to the 600D - I'm guessing a new sensor.

7D next on the list? Doubt it, the xxD line takes more than 2 years and the 7D is higher - so perhaps a few more months.

The only things not updated are the 1Ds and 5D. I can only imagine these two coming in the next few months, with the 1Ds being first.

The 50D lasted 2 years because it was introduced quickly to cover the disapointment around the 40D, besides those two models te xxD line has generally been on an 18 month cycle.

The main thing standing in the way of a 70D or a 650D though is I'd say that a new sensor would out spec the 7D. Just as you'd expect the 1Ds Mk 4 to preview the new FF sensor I'd also expect the 7D mk2 to preview the new crop sensor. Canon could I spose try and get away with using the old 7D sensor again in a 650D using the new processor for better FPS but they'd risk being otuspeced pretty quickly and have to release something else a few months latter.

Personally though I wouldnt be shocked if the 7D mk2 came out before the 5D mk3, a new sensor is needed for the xxxD and xxD's and the 7D itself is facing stiffer competision from Nikon so why not take advanatge of previewing it on your flagship crop body?