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466
I'd guess that Canon's view is that the 5D mk3 is a departure for the line bringing in features that had previously only been on offer with the 1Ds hence thinking they can get away with a higher price.

Another thing to consider is I'd say that the generations between cameras seem to be getting longer amd higher launch price gives more room for price drops over an extended lifetime. If the 5D mk3 is say $500 cheaper this time next year then the perception of value will likely be greater than if it had launched at that price and stayed there, meanwhile Canon will be bringing in larger profits from early adopters who'll probabley buy reguardless.

467
EOS Bodies / Re: If this is the best the D800 can do...
« on: March 01, 2012, 02:00:50 PM »
You've posted this before but on a pixel by pixel basis it does seem pretty clear that more megapixels = worse ISO performance on sensors of the same size and technology.

Care to cite some proof of that? I can't find any...

D3s vs D3X? obviously not idenetical techology but sensors the same size produced around the same time.

468
EOS Bodies / Re: So, what about the T4i?
« on: March 01, 2012, 09:09:06 AM »
I'm waiting for 650D too.

One question about XXXD line. If it is a line for photographers-beginners (or amateurs with little money), then why they should require so many megapixles?
Aren't megapixels for studio (or landscape) photographers, who can shoot REALLY well and make money on this?
What is the profit of 18 mp if a person can't shoot well?

Further more, 18mp require really good AF (if one shoots portraits), very good lenses (calibrated in service-centre), micro AF adjustment (which is missing in XXXd) and good patience when pictures are somewhat out of focus.

Am I the only one who sees that xxxd line is not "well balanced" in terms of feautures and target audience?

Most of the time I shoot in clubs, I need clean high iso, accurate AF, excellent background blur => "sports camera" is for me, however, there is not a single canon camera that is targeted for such audience under 1Dx :(((

I'd guess most manifacturers feel that such users are likely to buy higher end bodies such as the 7D which wasnt "bad" at high ISO when released. If Canon do carry on the 7D, xxD and xxxD lines I wouldnt actually be supprized to see them carrying different sensors with the 7D sticking at 18 MP for improved ISO while the other two get 20+ megapixels.

I do think theres a market for a smaller DSLR with features similar to the 7D though, espeically as we see camera slike the Fuji X1pro and the NEX 7 targetting the higher end crop market with small bodies. The xxxD's were well suited to competing with existing M43 and the lower end NEX's but they arent really offering an alternative to these newer mirrorlesses.

469
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Mark III Full Spec List?
« on: March 01, 2012, 08:54:12 AM »
So if the native ISO is 2 stops higher then the D800s, what do we think this means in practice?
really? what do you think it means? we can take cleaner pictures is lower light.

I'd guess he means what do you think it will mean to ISO performance at the settings the D800 and the 5D mk3 will share.

470
EOS Bodies / Re: If this is the best the D800 can do...
« on: March 01, 2012, 02:50:19 AM »
http://www.fotosidan.se/forum/showpost.php?p=1792662&postcount=1457

I don't understand the language, but I'm assuming D800 samples reduced to 1600px. If this is the best this camera can do at ISO 1600+, the 5D MkII has nothing to fear let alone the Mk III!

I have the 5D2 and I think this is about 1/2 to 2/3 stop better than the 5D2 can do.
Hopefully the 5D3 has improved to at least this level to. I don't really expect it to be better since we are closing up to what is physically possible to do.
(a 100% efficiency FF sensor would probably be about 1 stop better than D800 so there is not much room for improvement)

Not sure what's wrong with your 5D2 then, because mine is at least 1/2 stop better than this at 1600+. That said the D800 is 36MP, so 1/2 stop worse than 5D2 is still an incredible achievement for Nikon. Just don't expect the D800 to be a low-light superstar, which is what I *AM* expecting the 5D3 to be. That - and video - will be the 5D3's trump cards in my opinion. As a professional wedding filmmaker and photographer, I know for fact my colleagues and I are going to lap up the Mk III if it improves on the Mk II in these aspects. Anything else is gravy. Nikon just can't compete when it comes to pro video on an SLR, and the early reviews of the D800's video capabilities (and quality) seem to pan this out.

Since you are talking about the number of pixels as they should have anything to do with low light capability it is obvious that you don't have any competence whatsoever in what you are talking about.
My guess is that the statement of your 5D2 is at the same lack of knowledge level.
If the 5D3 will have better or worse low light capability than D800 we don't know. We can hope for better but there is not any room to be a lot better. 0.5 stop would be amazing.
The only thing we know is that so far the D800 after D3s and D4 has the lowest high iso noise.

You've posted this before but on a pixel by pixel basis it does seem pretty clear that more megapixels = worse ISO performance on sensors of the same size and technology.

I personally do not buy the arguement that downrezing will always give equal or better results either, I'v seen more than a few NEX vs NEX 7 comparisons recently and the NEX 7 has looked significantly worst at higher ISO's even downrezed to 16 megapixels.

471
EOS Bodies / Re: NO 5dM3 On Friday * CONFIRMED By a canon Rep Today
« on: February 29, 2012, 04:38:17 PM »
I don't think they'd be building that massive stage in Shanghai just to announce B-list product.  We're gonna see 5D something.

exactly.  all that for the next digital Rebel?  because it's got ... what, a flip screen with 280 degrees of rotation instead of 270?  I think not... very excited to see what this serious looking stage is for.

Who says that both can't be announced on the same day? It wouldn't be unheard of.

If the T4I/650D is only a minor update then I would not be at all supprized to see it annouced at the same time as the 5D mk3 to get some reflected glory and bypass criticism.

472
EOS Bodies / Re: If this is the best the D800 can do...
« on: February 29, 2012, 04:27:59 PM »
The strength of the D800 is obviously its resolving power. Since it will mostly be favored by studio and landscape photographers, I don't see how its high-ISO performance is any important...

Given that theres no sign of Nikon releasing another "budget" FF body in the near future though it seems that this camera is aimed at more than just studio and landscape users.

As a potential buyer for the latter use the one thing that worries me isnt the ISO performance but that all the 100% views I'v seen so far look rather soft, the sensor outresolving the lens?

473
EOS Bodies / Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« on: February 28, 2012, 05:40:22 PM »
I'm inclined to think that they're not going to put the full bell's and whistle's focusing system of the D into the mkIII.. That would seem counter intuitive to marketing..  Clearly they would step up from the current 5Dii system, but they could take a lead from the 7D system and perhaps expand the number of points of that vs. a full 61 pt. system.  They've got to somehow not take away from the high end sales as well..   I'll start a new rumor here..  A 35 pt focusing system, selectable zones (like the 7D) and setting specific focusing points, also like the 7D.. maybe better metering of the points..  :-)   We'll see when we see, I guess.

Jay S.

In the past though there was a much stronger need to differentiate by AF system with the 1D line as ASPH which ment the 5D line had clear advanatges in some areas. With the 1DX those advanatges are likely gone leaving more of a list of pluses for the pro line.

My guess would be that the two AF systems will be very similar with the 5D mk3 lacking some of the more advanced programable modes and perhaps being a bit slower with reduced processing power.

474
EOS Bodies / Re: What will be announced on Feb 28?
« on: February 26, 2012, 02:19:00 PM »
Announcements will be on March 2, due to the Academy Awards taking all the news.

good point

If video is going to be emphazied its worth considering I spose although you could argue the opposite that the oscars means hollywoods on everyones lips so a good chance for a DSLR to piggyback that.

475
EOS Bodies / Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« on: February 25, 2012, 01:07:53 PM »
Quote
People are speculating that $3500 is with kit lens. Users from other forums seem to have evidence.

I'm not sure I've seen any posts about a kit lens, and not sure what lens they would throw in that has enough value to raise to a $3500 price tag.  You're not going to put a junk lens in with what has the potential to be a new standard body for many photographers.. That's like the old "putting $29 speakers on a $2000 receiver" analogy.  There may be some combo deals out there, or if the price tag with a kit kens is $3500 and its a decent lens, maybe the body is back down in the more reasonable range.

Jay S.

The current 24-105 kit is about $800 more than the body alone so that would equal a price of $2700 which does not seem impossible to me.

Bit of a long shot but perhaps the rumorued 40mm 2.8 pancake? the new 18-135mm is likely going to be a kit with the 650D and the pancake was rumoured along side it.

Quote
Just heard a rumor guys, the cr3 spec 5d III/x won't be released in the near future because the pressure from Nikon d800, canon will adjust their spec according to d800 so the 5dIII/x will be delayed!

No link and it's a rumor!

Seems very unlikely to me, the Nikon specs have been known almost definately for 3-4 months and 36 megapixels has been strongly rumoured since last summer.

476
I would not be supprized if we saw something along the line the 4K DSLR announcement that happened with the C300 to shoot back at RED's offering, that is some basic specs of a future high megapixel DSLR released at the 5D mk3/X launch.

Actually releasing such a camera 6 months after Nikon probabley isnt much of a problem, leaving people in the dark as to whether one will be released at all is and could result in alot of people switching brands.


477
Lenses / Re: Patent: Canon EF 35 f/2 IS
« on: February 25, 2012, 01:49:09 AM »
What are the chances canon keep all the current primes around and carry both?  Or do you think the old ones go away - no more affordable primes?

My guess is its more likely the original 35mm f/2 will stay around than the 24mm and 28mm 2.8's unless Canon brings out a new EF-S prime, its much more popular with crop users as a cheap standard prime afterall.

478
EOS Bodies / Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« on: February 24, 2012, 12:21:35 PM »
Personally, I don't think that people will quote a kit price in their conjecture, especially since there have been no [CR3] mentions of what lens will be included with the kit.  As far as we know, it could even be the new EF 24-70 f/2.8L II, which would make the kit easily over $4500.

The CR3 itself did seem rather more vague about the price than the specs/release date though.

479
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon 60D vs T4i
« on: February 24, 2012, 11:11:39 AM »
It depends what you want I spose, the T4i will almost definately not offer the same build as the 60D nore the same viewfinder but it could potentially offer better JPG noise reduction/FPS from the new processor or a new sensor with higher resolution and/or ISO performance.

480
EOS Bodies / Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« on: February 24, 2012, 01:38:14 AM »
First off, I think JerryFish (Reply #91) did an excellent job studying the MSRP cost difference between the 1Ds/1DX and the 5D series, for the last 3 generations. That Table is very informative and telling. See below.

I would make the following points, regarding the rumored MSRP:

1.   Keep in mind that through the upgrades of each of its models (including FF series), Canon has done its best to improve various shortcomings of the previous generation. Even though upgrades do cost money and expense, note that such improvements (whether the Pixel Count, ISO, IQ, AF, Processor, FPS, etc.) did NOT result in overly noticeable MSRP increases. (by the way, that is almost true amongst other manufacturers as well, including Nikon). By improving the previous model’s features, and maintaining (or dropping) the MSRP for the newer model, Canon has done very well in holding or improving its position in the market share.

If were talking exclusively about the 5D line then Canon has not really delt with these "shortcomings" before, the 5D mk2 offered a superior sensor and video over the Mk1 but did not offer a significant improvement in FPS, AF or viewfinder coverage. This new 5D is offering specs that are far closer to the tradisional 1D/1DS market.

Quote
3.   In its head-to-head competition with Nikon’s D800, Canon cannot reasonably ask for a higher MSRP than D800’s $3,000.  That is the not-to-exceed price ceiling. In fact, with D800’s long list of expanded features (36MP, Advanced AF, 16-bit Image Processing & Excellent IQ and Video, Built-In Pop-Up Flash, Automated HDR Mode, In-Camera Audio Monitoring & Headphone Jack, Active D-Lighting, USB 3.0 Connector, etc.), it would be wise for Canon to price its new 5D iii/X conservatively at a lower MSRP than D800’s $3,000. An MSRP of around $2,700, similar to 5D II (upon its introduction) would be reasonable.

Based on the above points, if Canon wishes to enjoy the same success and popularity that it had for its 5D line through the past generations, it should price its new 5D III/X at around $2,700.  Otherwise, D800 will win this battle. Simple as that!

In fact, the more I think about the [CR3] report for a MSRP of “Around” $3,500, the more it seems to me that perhaps that price is for a KIT Package, which includes the EF 24-105/f4 L IS II lens.  Now, That would make sense  ;)

It would definately be more sucessful at a lower price however it seems likey(although neither were mention on the CR3) that this new Canon will offer superior ISO, FPS and posisble AF performance compaired to the D800.

As has been mentioned MRSP isnt street price, tradisionally even brand new products are often avalable for significantly below that level. Nikon seem to have bucked that trend by enforcing the MRSP which has likely resulted in it being significantly lower than it otherwise would have been.

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