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Author Topic: Canon EOS-1D X DXOMark Sensor Scores  (Read 35648 times)

Canon-F1

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X DXOMark Sensor Scores
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2012, 08:41:30 AM »
i doubt the 4 MP less (bigger photosites) make up for the difference in the DXO results.

i think there must be something else that makes the 1D X sensor better.

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X DXOMark Sensor Scores
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2012, 08:41:30 AM »

marekjoz

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X DXOMark Sensor Scores
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2012, 09:00:35 AM »
It's dissapointing they didn't give to many reasons to bash their results.
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JohanCruyff

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X DXOMark Sensor Scores
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2012, 09:08:44 AM »
Looks like we will continue to see Canon improve their sensors.
Nikon still has a lead but in dynamic range but the gap is closing.
The world may not be coming to an end after all. ::)

Are you sure? I keep reading on the web that the world will disappear next December.
Maybe DXOmark's positive score is a Sign.
 
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K-amps

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X DXOMark Sensor Scores
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2012, 09:13:13 AM »
i doubt the 4 MP less (bigger photosites) make up for the difference in the DXO results.

i think there must be something else that makes the 1D X sensor better.

No one talks about color depth... seems this plays a part in the DxO scores and you will see the 1Dx has much higher color depth than other recent offerings from Canon and competes with Nikon.

I always felt there is something that Nikon Sensors exhibit (thats DxO is considering in it's scoring model) that does not affect IQ as much (past a certain level) but affects the DxO scores in favor of Sonikon....
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 09:55:30 AM by K-amps »
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Woody

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X DXOMark Sensor Scores
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2012, 09:58:14 AM »
I will believe these numbers when I see them on the DXO site itself.

Come to think about it: some folks who tried to lift the shadows in 1DX images do not find the performance any better than the 5D3... Hmmm...
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 10:08:07 AM by Woody »

Chewy734

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X DXOMark Sensor Scores
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2012, 10:10:09 AM »
What's interesting is that those numbers suggest that the 1D X sensor trumps all other sensors in terms of low-light performance.  In fact, based on their numbers they are saying there is a 2x difference in improvement in low-light ISO between the 1D X and the 5D3, than between the 5D3 and 5D2.  I just don't see it.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 10:16:57 AM by Chewy734 »

stewy

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X DXOMark Sensor Scores
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2012, 10:11:21 AM »
I will believe these numbers when I see them on the DXO site itself.

Come to think about it: some folks who tried to lift the shadows in 1DX images do not find the performance any better than the 5D3... Hmmm...
What? You don't believe the numbers posted on a rumor's website? How absurd!

lol, I couldn't resist. :p

Seriously though, I've never cared about the numbers. I just look at photos 1:1 and if they look good, detail and color, then that's good enough for me.

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X DXOMark Sensor Scores
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2012, 10:11:21 AM »

PackLight

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X DXOMark Sensor Scores
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2012, 10:11:51 AM »
It should be obvious that DxO changed the way they are rating the camera. After all they had it right with the D800's high rating.

Obviously Nikon sensors are so much better than Canons that in sensor comparisons a Canon sensor is equivalent to a cave man drawing on the wall with a sharp charcoal stick.

I wonder if I should qualify the above statement, in that it has no merit other than being a sharp charcoal stick to poke at those who like to debate sensor merits.

thepancakeman

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X DXOMark Sensor Scores
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2012, 10:31:16 AM »
i guess for some the reputation of the DXOmark has just become a bit better.   ::)
;D ;D
I think this is the first time admin put Canon's DXO mark on the front page

Yeah, I thought he said earlier this year that he was never going to post anything dxomark-related on the front page ever again because their sensor scores were meaningless.


But see, this isn't from DXO, it's a rumor about DXO, so it's all good.   ;D ;D

sanj

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X DXOMark Sensor Scores
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2012, 10:31:54 AM »
What's interesting is that those numbers suggest that the 1D X sensor trumps all other sensors in terms of low-light performance.  In fact, based on their numbers they are saying there is a 2x difference in improvement in low-light ISO between the 1D X and the 5D3, than between the 5D3 and 5D2.  I just don't see it.

Is that what they saying? I do not see it either.

Chewy734

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X DXOMark Sensor Scores
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2012, 10:48:56 AM »
Is that what they saying? I do not see it either.

Well, the low-light ISO scores are 3296, 2293, and 1815, for the 1D X, 5D3, and 5D2, respectively.

The difference between the 1D X and 5D3 is 1003, and the difference between the 5D3 and 5D2 is 478.  So, the difference between the former is ~2x as much as the latter.

Or am I missing something here?

tron

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X DXOMark Sensor Scores
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2012, 11:11:47 AM »
I will believe these numbers when I see them on the DXO site itself.

Come to think about it: some folks who tried to lift the shadows in 1DX images do not find the performance any better than the 5D3... Hmmm...
Now this is very interesting information, especially for non-sports photographers...

preppyak

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X DXOMark Sensor Scores
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2012, 11:35:24 AM »
The difference between the 1D X and 5D3 is 1003, and the difference between the 5D3 and 5D2 is 478.  So, the difference between the former is ~2x as much as the latter.

Or am I missing something here?
Well, you're thinking in terms of direct numbers, whereas ISO isn't proportioned that way. The difference between 1600 and 3200 is the same as between 3200 and 6400, despite the later having twice as great a difference in linear terms. So, really what it is saying is the 5DII and III are pretty close in ISO performance, but the 1DX is another step above.

This is how DxO mark explains it
Quote
Sports Score is based on Low-Light ISO performance (values in ISO index). Low-Light ISO indicates the highest ISO sensitivity to which your camera can be set while maintaining a high quality, low-noise image (based on a Signal-to-Noise-Ratio [SNR] of 30dB, a dynamic range of 9EVs and a color depth of 18bits). As cameras improve, the highest ISO setting to produce 30dB, 9EVs, 18-bit images will continuously increase, making this scale open. Low-Light ISO performance is of primary importance in photojournalism, sports and action photography.
So, they are still following the ISO index, which is based on doubling the previous number being equal to 1-stop. So, for example, the difference between the 5dII and 1DX, by their score, is essentially 1 stop. The difference between the 5dII and 5dIII is 1/3 stop. But, what they are actually measuring for is their own benchmark, which is kind of arbitrary. It's not saying the 1DX is a whole stop better than the other cameras; it's saying its a stop better by their definition of "good". If your standards aren't 30dB, 9EV, 18-bit images, then you might find completely different numbers for the difference between cameras.

That's why its important for an objective test to state what they are measuring, that way you can decide whether their measurement is important to you or not. Someone who cares less about dynamic range but more about lower read noise might get very different results. Likewise, someone shooting in B+W might care way more about DR and not so much about noise/grain
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 11:42:25 AM by preppyak »

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X DXOMark Sensor Scores
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2012, 11:35:24 AM »

Chewy734

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X DXOMark Sensor Scores
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2012, 12:50:41 PM »
Thanks for the explanation preppyak.

jrista

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X DXOMark Sensor Scores
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2012, 12:52:04 PM »
Everyone needs to keep in mind, these are not yet posted as official results. Assuming they ARE official results, something else to keep in mind:

A DR of 12.8 is the Print DR. As everyone here who has read the debates about DXO before, particularly from Neuro and myself, Print DR statistics from DXO are very misleading. These numbers are not "impossible" like the D800's 14.4, however to remain objective and consistent in my argument:

Just as you couldn't actually capture a scene with 14.4 literal stops of DR with a D800 IN-CAMERA, neither will anyone be able to capture a scene with 12.8 literal stops of DR with a 1D X. For the exact same reasons, the PHYSICAL capabilities of the HARDWARE simply won't allow it. The hardware is rated by DXO's actual measurements, which fall under their Screen DR statistics.

My guess is that the 1D X will still have 11.something stops of real-world HARDWARE DR. The 12.8 stops is only something that might potentially be possible with the right kind of scaling algorithm, and all it will do is allow you to utilize a little more headroom that is normally consumed by noise in a 100% image (however at the tradeoff of detail and resolution...potentially a LOT of detail and resolution, since it required downscaling). The 12.8 stop DR rating tells you about what SOFTWARE can do if it normalizes (bins) noise, but it does not tell you anything about the physical capabilities of the hardware. (Although if 12.8 stops really is the Print DR, it sounds like the QUALITY of the 1D X's noise is really quite good.)

Just to put things in perspective, and maintain a level playing field with consistent arguments: Screen DR tells you about the hardware (and we don't know this yet, probably won't until DXO actually posts the 1D X results on their site.) Print DR tells you about how clever DXO's testing software is and how capable it is at normalizing noise when downscaling.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 12:55:01 PM by jrista »

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X DXOMark Sensor Scores
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2012, 12:52:04 PM »