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Author Topic: 6D with 3 flavor + Improve AF (compare to 5dm2)  (Read 11350 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: 6D with 3 flavor + Improve AF (compare to 5dm2)
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2012, 12:58:18 PM »
This might be marketed at countries with regulations on wifi, gps and signal transmission. It may be that the US gets the full version only and thus the highest priced model of the 3.

Yep.  For example, there are both a 600EX-RT and a 600-EX (no radio control), but the latter is only available in certain markets, and the USA isn't one of them.
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Re: 6D with 3 flavor + Improve AF (compare to 5dm2)
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2012, 12:58:18 PM »

sb

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Re: 6D with 3 flavor + Improve AF (compare to 5dm2)
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2012, 01:29:12 PM »

 My only concern is 5dm2 AI Servo AF when taking candid photo of my daughter.

I'm not sure why you would use servo for candids. I shoot wedding candids all day long and I only ever use single shot. I have never once used the servo mode on my camera (other than screwing around when I first got the camera years ago) I think the purpose of servo is seriously misunderstood.


Drizzt321

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Re: 6D with 3 flavor + Improve AF (compare to 5dm2)
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2012, 01:45:24 PM »
3 variant is based on table 2. Or maybe only 2 variant and the 3rd one is typping error??

Another feature that i guess in 6D is support STM lens (EF 40 f2.8 STM) where it employs "Stepping Motor Technology". Which allows the lens to focus very quietly and useful in movie capture. AFIK, AF in video mode body dependant with only the 650D allowing for it. But the pancake is EF lens not EFs. So if this prosumer 6D don't support STM, which FF model will support this prosumer lens?

All of Canon's reasonably recent cameras support the STM lenses such as the 40mm pancake. Works just fine! However, the only current SLR models that support live video AF is the T4i/650D that was recently released. Also the EOS-M, but that seems to be basically the T4i stuffed into a smaller body without the mirror box and a smaller lens mount (with an adapter for EF/EF-S lenses). So if you want AF while capturing video, you need the T4i right now. Otherwise, you don't have it and need to buy a dedicated video device.

I'm actually frankly a little surprised that Canon didn't include the live AF in video on the 6D, it seems a logical progression for those coming from the Rebel world.
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Re: 6D with 3 flavor + Improve AF (compare to 5dm2)
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2012, 01:55:50 PM »
Just a word of warning. I don't think anyone should count on being able to choose between a new 6D and a new 5DII.

Once the 6D hits the shelves, expect the 5DII to disappear. At a minimum, all rebates and discounts on any remaining 5DIIs in dealers' stock will end and dealers will quit receiving any new shipments. Canon did a remarkable job of pulling the 580EXII and making it impossible to find. Expect the same with the 5DII.

Refurbished and used models will remain, but they could very well be selling for as much or more than new models are now going for.

It is not in Canon's best interests to allow consumers to choose between the 6D and a heavily discounted 5DII. By the time the 6D is available, your choices on the new market will be the 6D or the 5DIII.
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chadders

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Re: 6D with 3 flavor + Improve AF (compare to 5dm2)
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2012, 02:12:32 PM »
Just a word of warning. I don't think anyone should count on being able to choose between a new 6D and a new 5DII.

Once the 6D hits the shelves, expect the 5DII to disappear. At a minimum, all rebates and discounts on any remaining 5DIIs in dealers' stock will end and dealers will quit receiving any new shipments. Canon did a remarkable job of pulling the 580EXII and making it impossible to find. Expect the same with the 5DII.

Refurbished and used models will remain, but they could very well be selling for as much or more than new models are now going for.

It is not in Canon's best interests to allow consumers to choose between the 6D and a heavily discounted 5DII. By the time the 6D is available, your choices on the new market will be the 6D or the 5DIII.

Absolutely spot on. And the price for the few remaining 580EXII's in the UK seems to have increased.

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Re: 6D with 3 flavor + Improve AF (compare to 5dm2)
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2012, 04:05:02 PM »
Just a word of warning. I don't think anyone should count on being able to choose between a new 6D and a new 5DII.

Once the 6D hits the shelves, expect the 5DII to disappear. At a minimum, all rebates and discounts on any remaining 5DIIs in dealers' stock will end and dealers will quit receiving any new shipments. Canon did a remarkable job of pulling the 580EXII and making it impossible to find. Expect the same with the 5DII.

Refurbished and used models will remain, but they could very well be selling for as much or more than new models are now going for.

It is not in Canon's best interests to allow consumers to choose between the 6D and a heavily discounted 5DII. By the time the 6D is available, your choices on the new market will be the 6D or the 5DIII.

Pleeeeeease, let the 6D have similar IQ to the 5DmkIII.  I'm really counting on this.  Today's US$1,549 deal for the MkII is really tempting!.  We'll see.
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Re: 6D with 3 flavor + Improve AF (compare to 5dm2)
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2012, 04:21:21 PM »
... I think the purpose of servo is seriously misunderstood.

i am insteresting in your understanding about ai servo.  as if you would like to share, i am your audiance...

note:  i am using both (with dof button re-config), depending on cases

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Re: 6D with 3 flavor + Improve AF (compare to 5dm2)
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2012, 04:21:21 PM »

pakngah

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Re: 6D with 3 flavor + Improve AF (compare to 5dm2)
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2012, 12:23:37 PM »
I just read http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3280866 and one guy told that it is possible that 6 AF-assist points (5dm2) are actually retained in 6D and plus 2 additional points (total= 11 AF points + 8 AF-assist).  :P

IINM, there are AI Servo and AI Servo II right? All new camera body get AI Servo II or only for pro body?


 

sb

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Re: 6D with 3 flavor + Improve AF (compare to 5dm2)
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2012, 01:56:28 PM »
... I think the purpose of servo is seriously misunderstood.

i am insteresting in your understanding about ai servo.  as if you would like to share, i am your audiance...

note:  i am using both (with dof button re-config), depending on cases

Ok, so let me start by saying that in my world of candids (i.e. weddings) unless the eye closest to the camera is critically sharp, the picture goes to the virtual trash can. Even a slight focus error (say I focused on the eyeglass frames) is completely unacceptable. In fact, nothing short of tack sharp eye(s) can be passed on to the client.

Second thing that needs mentioning is that I shoot wide open with fast primes. So f/1.4 is where I live.

With that being said, servo could never do for me what I do manually with single shot:

- Servo is reactive, not proactive. It doesn't know where your subject is GOING TO BE, it can only tell where the subject moved after it already happened. Once subject moves out of focus, servo is catching up. This is especially a problem when the subject is moving straight towards or away from you.

- Servo can't predict people's reactions. I can tell by the body language whether a person is going to lean forward or backwards once they start laughing at the incredibly hilarious joke they just heard from a person they were chatting with.

- Servo doesn't understand that focus needs to be on the eye of the subject or the picture is useless. To ensure that I get the eye in focus, I use single focus point only. I dont want the camera making a mistake. Unfortunately you can't use servo with a single focus point only :-)

- With candids, timing is everything. So I want to take a picture exactly when the time is right, not when servo catches up to the subject. So it is much faster for me to wait it out and focus in the split second when the moment is right, than to let servo chase the subject around and be completely in the wrong place when I need to take the picture.

But I'm not saying that servo is useless, don't get me wrong. In other types of photography where subjects that are moving really fast and failure rate is really high (flying birds, fast action sports etc) servo can be of tremendous value. I can't imagine shooing a soccer game without it (unless I'm shooting the goalie only :-)). Continuous fast action requires a completely different approach to photography, especially if you don't know what that "right moment" will be.


 


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Re: 6D with 3 flavor + Improve AF (compare to 5dm2)
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2012, 02:13:57 PM »
I would switch out my 7D for the 6D, but canon dumped the multi-selector switch on the 6D and made it more 60D-ish.

Argghhhh!?!??! >:(

ishdakuteb

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Re: 6D with 3 flavor + Improve AF (compare to 5dm2)
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2012, 04:02:07 PM »
Ok, so let me start by saying that in my world of candids (i.e. weddings) unless the eye closest to the camera is critically sharp, the picture goes to the virtual trash can. Even a slight focus error (say I focused on the eyeglass frames) is completely unacceptable. In fact, nothing short of tack sharp eye(s) can be passed on to the client.

Second thing that needs mentioning is that I shoot wide open with fast primes. So f/1.4 is where I live.

With that being said, servo could never do for me what I do manually with single shot:

- Servo is reactive, not proactive. It doesn't know where your subject is GOING TO BE, it can only tell where the subject moved after it already happened. Once subject moves out of focus, servo is catching up. This is especially a problem when the subject is moving straight towards or away from you.

- Servo can't predict people's reactions. I can tell by the body language whether a person is going to lean forward or backwards once they start laughing at the incredibly hilarious joke they just heard from a person they were chatting with.

- Servo doesn't understand that focus needs to be on the eye of the subject or the picture is useless. To ensure that I get the eye in focus, I use single focus point only. I dont want the camera making a mistake. Unfortunately you can't use servo with a single focus point only :-)

- With candids, timing is everything. So I want to take a picture exactly when the time is right, not when servo catches up to the subject. So it is much faster for me to wait it out and focus in the split second when the moment is right, than to let servo chase the subject around and be completely in the wrong place when I need to take the picture.

But I'm not saying that servo is useless, don't get me wrong. In other types of photography where subjects that are moving really fast and failure rate is really high (flying birds, fast action sports etc) servo can be of tremendous value. I can't imagine shooing a soccer game without it (unless I'm shooting the goalie only :-)). Continuous fast action requires a completely different approach to photography, especially if you don't know what that "right moment" will be.

thanks for the explaination and yep i can clearly see the different in understanding about ai servo between you and i.  about "unfortunately you can't use servo with a single focus point only", i can say that i have been using single focus point along with ai servo and i have never missed my shots - desired focus point(s) is always sharp and in focus... but still depend on how fast the subject is moving.  (note:  i do not like dof button of 5d mark iii probably my hand is too small to reach that button)

i do not have canon ai servo design or implemtation in hands, but what do you think if i say that i believe that ai servo is designed not based on prediction, but tracking data properties of desired focus point?

Imagination_landB

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Re: 6D with 3 flavor + Improve AF (compare to 5dm2)
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2012, 08:54:12 PM »
This might be marketed at countries with regulations on wifi, gps and signal transmission. It may be that the US gets the full version only and thus the highest priced model of the 3.

Yep.  For example, there are both a 600EX-RT and a 600-EX (no radio control), but the latter is only available in certain markets, and the USA isn't one of them.
Ahhh this is THE why. Thank you. So USA/CANADA might have just one version.. I would have prefer to have a version minus the gps and wifi for less money but whatever..
« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 08:57:27 PM by Imagination_landB »
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Re: 6D with 3 flavor + Improve AF (compare to 5dm2)
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2012, 11:19:40 PM »
People, stop crapping on the 6D!!! Those who are "disappointed" without ever having shot a single frame with this camera are just being foolish. There is no way that Canon would build a camera that is worse than a four-year old model like the 5DII. Seriously, Canon is not stupid. They want to sell quality. Assuming that the AF is going to be bad based on the number of cross-type points is crazy. Billions upon billions of photos have been shot on 5DII's with it's admittedly mediocre AF. But to assume that a modern camera like the 6D won't be an order of magnitude better based on a spec sheet is just plain crazy.
Wait for some real-world tests by actual photographers - not gadget guides like Engadget or their ilk but people who actually make their living with photos and video - and then decide. In the meantime, quit prowling the fora and go take some pictures with what you already have. Become a better photographer. Then maybe you'll be able to make a truly informed decision.
Stop hating on cameras - or anything else for that matter - based on numbers on a website. If after shooting with the 6D you still feel the same way, then feel free to hate away.

Now this is exactly the kind of argument that ignores the big picture (literally!). Now, how many 5dMkII shots have you seen that had focus issues or the ones that completely missed/didn't get the shot at all because it didn't lock? Oh wait, those pictures aren't posted anywhere because they've been trashed!! It's not the AF that makes great photos, or a 100% VF, or does the addition of Wifi/GPS change it for that matter, but a professional camera system is about "getting the shot" and more so as you rise up the chain of pro bodies, rather than "creating the shot" as better AF, ISO performance and faster FPS all aid in capturing the moment.

And  "...Become a better photographer. Then maybe you'll be able to make a truly informed decision." Aha, yes, because YOU are the best photog here who can compare against say whatever he wants to everyone else here. Sure as the saying goes, a great photog can take great pictures with any camera, but that same photog will also want the best tools and capabilities to further develop, enhance and express his work. The 6D doesn't quite exist yet, but look over there, a D600 that beats the 6D purely by spec, what does the 6D have that's make it any more appealing, for the exact same price? Wi-fi and GPS built in, and 1AF point that might be more accurate than what the MarkII has...

It's crazy indeed that the 6D isn't an order of magnitude better than the 5dMarkII, I know, Canon must be insane!
Also, the issue isn't so much Canon being bad, it's every other manufacturer actually delivering compelling gear at a great price point. I want a new camera now and this mysterious 6D won't be out and reviewed until next year, if Canon were really smart then missing pre-Christmas release with a "rebel upgrade FF" is completely ridiculous

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Re: 6D with 3 flavor + Improve AF (compare to 5dm2)
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2012, 11:19:40 PM »

pakngah

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Re: 6D with 3 flavor + Improve AF (compare to 5dm2)
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2012, 01:06:17 AM »
Guys, can anyone give me more information about Canon AI Servo and AI Servo II?? found nothing from wiki and google. Really appreciate your help.

ishdakuteb

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Re: 6D with 3 flavor + Improve AF (compare to 5dm2)
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2012, 01:18:44 AM »
Guys, can anyone give me more information about Canon AI Servo and AI Servo II?? found nothing from wiki and google. Really appreciate your help.

i am not sure if this is help, but try to follow this link (page 5):  http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/infobank/autofocus/autofocus.do

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Re: 6D with 3 flavor + Improve AF (compare to 5dm2)
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2012, 01:18:44 AM »